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• NA megaservers for patch maintenance – December 17, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 17, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
New Group Dungeon System
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DarcyMardin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I vote for speed bumps in dungeons. Or trip wires. Run through a pack of mobs without killing them or skip a boss required for the quest and you trip, fall flat on your face, and can’t move until the group has caught up with you.8 -
Darcwolf✭✭✭Just a heads up. The New "Drag the party behind the [snip] that wants to rush through the dungeon" System sucks. They glitch the quests when your trying to complete the quests. They limit your ability to ready lore. [snip]
Yea, and what about the people who like the AFK and get carried? I love this change.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 27, 2021 11:39AM1 -
Lord_Hev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DarcyMardin wrote: »I vote for speed bumps in dungeons. Or trip wires. Run through a pack of mobs without killing them or skip a boss required for the quest and you trip, fall flat on your face, and can’t move until the group has caught up with you.
Even better idea, they should make it like Cloudrest. Whatever you skip, shows up on final boss in % waves, including any skipped bosses too to spice things up. Turn toxic skipping into legitimate optional Hardmode+.3 -
EpicHero✭✭✭✭When you are calling people that play different brain dead zombies, or post here wanting people that play different from you to be punished in dungeons, then YOU are the problem.3 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭That system isn't there to help you do quests. That system is there to help you get loot and credit from killing boss when your teammates rush ahead of you.
Also, you have as much right to call them mind-dead zombies as they have to call you a slow potato. Just saying. People speedfarming random normals isn't anything new or different and, given that instead of doing something about it ZOS introduced a feature that makes speedrunning easier, is fully intended by ZOS.
If you want to do the quest and read the lore, make your own group. There're plenty of guild out there to help with that.0 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭BroughBreaux wrote: »
Yeah, so spend 45(x8) minutes meandering through a dungeon so I can get transmute crystals since that's the only efficient source by which to get them.Yes, it is a choice. The choice is "screw over other players" or "don't screw over other players". You will still get your transmute stones. But stick with the party, and KILL as you go instead of running past monsters. If there is dialogue which is required for a quest, WAIT for the quest if another player needs it.
The problem isn't people maximizing their time efficiency, the problem is ZOS locking transmutes behind the queue. They could EASILY make it to where the final boss of the first dungeon you complete each day on each character drops the 10 crystal geode and this problem would be solved because we can solo them.
This isn't even to mention that the only reason you guys can get a queue to pop off as all is because people are farming the dungeons for the loot, Undaunted keys, or transmutes. The amount of people who do dungeons for fun is very small and queue times would skyrocket without farmers to fill spots. This is why the above solution hasn't be done.
I think the problem is people want a very different type of run and do not bother to take a few moments to form their group from guild, and yes it takes only moments to do so. I know because I do it. As such there are people who queue solo and have a complete disregard for others.
Granted, I suggest people like the OP form their group from guild as well but that is so they do not have to deal with the selfish people they ran with today. Heck, even if they queue with three guildmates they can more efficiently kick the 4th person if needed.
Honestly, I feel like the "fake queueing" as its called is generally more of a problem than people who skip ahead. If people skip ahead and die well thats their problem, if the rest of the group want to do the story in that moment then well.. thats for them too. People seem to think the issue is the people who run off ahead, but in reality its a two way street.
Now if its the tank or healer then thats a bit messy but from what I've seen its mostly been DPS players which really isn't that big of a deal. Not all dungeons have triggers for story based on position in the dungeon in fact most new ones have moved away from that.
Fake healers, fake tanks in queue now thats a real problem. I had a fake healer yesterday when me and my friends checked out Red Petal Bastian for the first time, the guy queued up as healer and was literally like "yes and? you guys not good dps or what?" ... massive troll. Now that ruins the experience for everyone and isn't as double ended as story vs efficiency.Edited by xeNNNNN on November 4, 2021 6:41PMAh, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.0 -
BigDanT✭✭When you are calling people that play different brain dead zombies, or post here wanting people that play different from you to be punished in dungeons, then YOU are the problem.
You need to read the whole post and not just get triggered. I made the statement in group I was doing the quest. The rest of the party was fine taking their time. ONE person out of FOUR people drug the whole party through the dungeon making it so the quests could NOT be completed.Just find people that want to clear slowly without using the Dungeon Finder.
Why can the speed runners find a group to run the dungeon without using the Dungeon Finder?That system isn't there to help you do quests. That system is there to help you get loot and credit from killing boss when your teammates rush ahead of you.
Also, you have as much right to call them mind-dead zombies as they have to call you a slow potato. Just saying. People speedfarming random normals isn't anything new or different and, given that instead of doing something about it ZOS introduced a feature that makes speedrunning easier, is fully intended by ZOS.
If you want to do the quest and read the lore, make your own group. There're plenty of guild out there to help with that.
And I am doing that. In Fact I have sworn off of doing random dungeons without using guildies for this very reason. And I hope all the fast running DPS folks enjoy trying to get a random dungeon group when the tank and healer support people are NOT signing up for the randoms because of this sort of thing. Considering how selfish it is for 1 person to feel they have the right to force a party of 4 to do things the way they want. So ya'll enjoy those fake tanks and fake healers considering support classes are usually played by individuals who don't like to rush through the game
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alberichtano✭✭✭✭✭
✭BroughBreaux wrote: »
This argument is in bad faith. Like, really bad faith. This is a stone's throw away from just outright lying about something. It's not a CHOICE when the ONLY way to get transmute crystals is by queueing for dungeons. Otherwise, you have to wait 30 days for a Cyrodiil campaign to end or get a measly 4 every 24 hours from Rewards of the Worthy, which would take you 31 days to get enough to reconstruct one 5 piece set if you have it down all the way to a cost of 25 per piece.SeaGtGruff wrote: »When you queue for a GROUP activity but then rush ahead of the rest of the group because you're just there to speed-run a random dungeon and grab your transmute crystals or other rewards (event tickets, event coffer, whatever), then you are being antisocial in a social situation that you consciously CHOSE to participate in
It's not a CHOICE when there's only ONE way to get something.
Wait what? Last I checked you get transmute stones from Battlegrounds as well. Or have they changed that?0 -
Magio_✭✭✭✭When you are calling people that play different brain dead zombies, or post here wanting people that play different from you to be punished in dungeons, then YOU are the problem.
You need to read the whole post and not just get triggered. I made the statement in group I was doing the quest. The rest of the party was fine taking their time. ONE person out of FOUR people drug the whole party through the dungeon making it so the quests could NOT be completed.Just find people that want to clear slowly without using the Dungeon Finder.
Why can the speed runners find a group to run the dungeon without using the Dungeon Finder?
Because that doesn't give you Transmute stones lol.
Fast people can make the Dungeon go fast and get their transmutes quickly. Slow potatoes can't make the dungeon go slow. Who's better served making their own group?
So, either make your own groups, or put up with strong players that can go fast until you roll a group that goes slow with the Dungeon Finder.Edited by Magio_ on November 5, 2021 1:17AM1 -
BigDanT✭✭When you are calling people that play different brain dead zombies, or post here wanting people that play different from you to be punished in dungeons, then YOU are the problem.
You need to read the whole post and not just get triggered. I made the statement in group I was doing the quest. The rest of the party was fine taking their time. ONE person out of FOUR people drug the whole party through the dungeon making it so the quests could NOT be completed.Just find people that want to clear slowly without using the Dungeon Finder.
Why can the speed runners find a group to run the dungeon without using the Dungeon Finder?
Because that doesn't give you Transmute stones lol.
Fast people can make the Dungeon go fast and get their transmutes quickly. Slow potatoes can't make the dungeon go slow. Who's better served making their own group?
So, either make your own groups, or put up with strong players that can go fast until you roll a group that goes slow with the Dungeon Finder.
So it is about the transmute stones which you can't sell. There is only 14 slots of armor that these can be used on. When you transmute armor it becomes bound so it cant be sold... So how many set of armor are wearing at one time? Next like us "Slow Potatoes" you can put together a party of 4 players then use the dungeon finder in order to do the random dungeon finder and still get your transmute stones and have a party that wants to bum rush dungeons just like you. Could it be that the antisocial mentality of power running leads to a lack of steady friendships and partnerships?0 -
Magio_✭✭✭✭When you are calling people that play different brain dead zombies, or post here wanting people that play different from you to be punished in dungeons, then YOU are the problem.
You need to read the whole post and not just get triggered. I made the statement in group I was doing the quest. The rest of the party was fine taking their time. ONE person out of FOUR people drug the whole party through the dungeon making it so the quests could NOT be completed.Just find people that want to clear slowly without using the Dungeon Finder.
Why can the speed runners find a group to run the dungeon without using the Dungeon Finder?
Because that doesn't give you Transmute stones lol.
Fast people can make the Dungeon go fast and get their transmutes quickly. Slow potatoes can't make the dungeon go slow. Who's better served making their own group?
So, either make your own groups, or put up with strong players that can go fast until you roll a group that goes slow with the Dungeon Finder.
So it is about the transmute stones which you can't sell. There is only 14 slots of armor that these can be used on. When you transmute armor it becomes bound so it cant be sold... So how many set of armor are wearing at one time? Next like us "Slow Potatoes" you can put together a party of 4 players then use the dungeon finder in order to do the random dungeon finder and still get your transmute stones and have a party that wants to bum rush dungeons just like you. Could it be that the antisocial mentality of power running leads to a lack of steady friendships and partnerships?
Lol, don't scrutinize what others use a currency for.
No need to find 3 people. I can solo Normal Dungeons perfectly fine. I am not going to waste my time and find 3 people than need/want to run tedious and boring content when I can do it by myself.
When I need 3 other people to farm a Veteran Dungeon, I do go and find 3 others. Why? Because I can't rely on the Dungeon Finder to put me in a group with a chance to clear the instance in a timely manner. Probably cuz of the same slow potatoes it likes to throw in.
That last jab is funny since I am not the one asking the devs to intervene because I can't find 3 friends that want to play at my snail pace.4 -
asbrizzi✭✭When you are calling people that play different brain dead zombies, or post here wanting people that play different from you to be punished in dungeons, then YOU are the problem.
You need to read the whole post and not just get triggered. I made the statement in group I was doing the quest. The rest of the party was fine taking their time. ONE person out of FOUR people drug the whole party through the dungeon making it so the quests could NOT be completed.Just find people that want to clear slowly without using the Dungeon Finder.
Why can the speed runners find a group to run the dungeon without using the Dungeon Finder?
Because that doesn't give you Transmute stones lol.
Fast people can make the Dungeon go fast and get their transmutes quickly. Slow potatoes can't make the dungeon go slow. Who's better served making their own group?
So, either make your own groups, or put up with strong players that can go fast until you roll a group that goes slow with the Dungeon Finder.
So it is about the transmute stones which you can't sell. There is only 14 slots of armor that these can be used on. When you transmute armor it becomes bound so it cant be sold... So how many set of armor are wearing at one time? Next like us "Slow Potatoes" you can put together a party of 4 players then use the dungeon finder in order to do the random dungeon finder and still get your transmute stones and have a party that wants to bum rush dungeons just like you. Could it be that the antisocial mentality of power running leads to a lack of steady friendships and partnerships?
Mulitple characters and different sets for different situations. Some people need a lot of transmutes.
The fact is, like they said, you can speed a dungeon up by yourself but you can't slow it down by yourself. That's why it's kind of up to the people who wanna take it slow it make their own group instaed of they people who wanna speed run it. Me personally if someone says they're doing the quest i slow down for them but otherwise i want in and out as quick as possible.4 -
Awnia✭✭✭When you are calling people that play different brain dead zombies, or post here wanting people that play different from you to be punished in dungeons, then YOU are the problem.
You need to read the whole post and not just get triggered. I made the statement in group I was doing the quest. The rest of the party was fine taking their time. ONE person out of FOUR people drug the whole party through the dungeon making it so the quests could NOT be completed.Just find people that want to clear slowly without using the Dungeon Finder.
Why can the speed runners find a group to run the dungeon without using the Dungeon Finder?
Because that doesn't give you Transmute stones lol.
Fast people can make the Dungeon go fast and get their transmutes quickly. Slow potatoes can't make the dungeon go slow. Who's better served making their own group?
So, either make your own groups, or put up with strong players that can go fast until you roll a group that goes slow with the Dungeon Finder.
So it is about the transmute stones which you can't sell. There is only 14 slots of armor that these can be used on. When you transmute armor it becomes bound so it cant be sold... So how many set of armor are wearing at one time? Next like us "Slow Potatoes" you can put together a party of 4 players then use the dungeon finder in order to do the random dungeon finder and still get your transmute stones and have a party that wants to bum rush dungeons just like you. Could it be that the antisocial mentality of power running leads to a lack of steady friendships and partnerships?
People who actually do the harder content need multiple sets lol.
And with how often ZOS likes to screw with sets, we are -exaggerating a bit- constantly in need of new gear, often have to be reconstructed, or just changing traits etc.2 -
Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭SeaGtGruff wrote: »When you queue for a GROUP activity but then rush ahead of the rest of the group because you're just there to speed-run a random dungeon and grab your transmute crystals or other rewards (event tickets, event coffer, whatever), then you are being antisocial in a social situation that you consciously CHOSE to participate in.
Not exactly. The thing is this, you want to go into a dungeon and you use the finder and you end up in a group of 4 that have completely different reasons to be there. The only thing all 4 players have in common is that they want to finish it. You can end up in groups where the goals collide with each other. Now running ahead and porting players behind you might not be nice, but it is fitting with the smallest common point to be there.
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Araneae6537✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you’re in normal, if someone is not respecting someone’s request to wait for the quest (not going through all dialogue, mind you, although I enjoy that too, I do it with groups formed for a “story” run) then kick that person or, if that’s not possible, leave yourself. In my experience, if you say something, most groups will wait even in vet dungeons if you need to do the quest. As I’ve said before, both speed runs and story runs are extremes that you should do with premade groups, which isn’t against either playstyle and I’ve enjoyed both, but in a PUG group there should be basic curtesy both ways.0 -
DestroyerPewnack✭✭✭✭[snip] I support the tags idea, where people of the same tag get queued together. [snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 27, 2021 11:44AM4 -
Ishtarknows✭✭✭✭✭
I would hardly call dungeon finder the most lucrative source of transmute crystals. I get way more crystals from PvP than I ever will from PvE dungeon dailies. Between 8 characters and rewards of the worth I end up exceeding my needs for crystals by a wide margin comparatively. Geodes in pvp often drop 10 for me as well.
at one point I had used 1000 and then gained 1000 by the end of the campaign.
And in pve doing random dungeons you could have earned 2400 in those same 30 days + at least a couple from pledges if you pick the quests too.
Thing is its not always about transmutes either. Doing a random is the quickest, easiest big chunk of xp available. If you need to level a new skill before a trial or for general level/cp boosting, whack on a scroll and run a random dungeon. I got loads of RftW and APbut next to no xp while levelling the alliance line from 5-9 this past week.
Edited by Ishtarknows on November 6, 2021 8:47AM1 -
BigDanT✭✭Welp I am fairly much done with this thread but I will close with the obvious. People are running Random Normal Dungeon Finder because they A. Do not have the time to gather a group. B. Do not have enough people to gather a group. or C. Are completely a solo-player. We can sling insults at each other all day and it honestly does not matter.
There is ONE thing that does matter though through all situations and all play styles. Common courtesy effects how others view you. I am building a guild. I do have now 68 like minded individuals who are in the guild. This is a guild that already has its own guild trader. Already runs an RP. Has already started gear farming as a guild in groups. Has already started guild streams. Has already started training members in sieging methods and so forth. Has already created a website and The number one ideal of the guild is "Common Courtesy." As I stated before. I am quite done with PUG RDF. The members who are joining are ELATED that there is a guild that puts players interests and needs before solo daily grind.
So peace be with the folks rushing through the game for whatever unknown reason. Perhaps one day soon we will meet on the battlefields and get to test what works better, "teamwork" or "solo burn down builds".0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DarcyMardin wrote: »I vote for speed bumps in dungeons. Or trip wires. Run through a pack of mobs without killing them or skip a boss required for the quest and you trip, fall flat on your face, and can’t move until the group has caught up with you.
or simply port the players back to where the first set of mobs they skipped were located. That would really be funny.
Right after I hit enter my thought was the game could have a voice-over say "you forgot something".
Edited by Amottica on November 6, 2021 9:34PM0 -
Stirvik✭✭"Drag the party behind the [snip] that wants to rush through the dungeon" is really terrible system should be removed at once. Dungeon are supposed to be a fun social, group hugging team event, been pull into combat against one's will, simply frustrating and very annoying.
If you want to do equipment farming or crystal geode, then organise a private or Guild group, you can't because only Random daily dungeons give you 10 crystal.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 27, 2021 11:34AM0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"Drag the party behind the [snip] that wants to rush through the dungeon" is really terrible system should be removed at once. Dungeon are supposed to be a fun social, group hugging team event, been pull into combat against one's will, simply frustrating and very annoying.
If you want to do equipment farming or crystal geode, then organise a private or Guild group, you can't because only Random daily dungeons give you 10 crystal.
You can because you can form a group and still queue for a specific dungeon or a random dungeon. I do it all the time.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 27, 2021 11:34AM1 -
Astrid✭✭✭✭✭So ya'll enjoy those fake tanks and fake healers considering support classes are usually played by individuals who don't like to rush through the game
False. I’m a healer main and speed run random dungeons (just rping as a dd because efficiency), I’ll wait if asked but otherwise just get it over with. Most of us have ran it so many times we could do it in our sleep, and we’ve got transmutes to collect for gear we inevitably need to swap because ZoS constantly shake the meta for no apparent reason.
If it’s vet, there’s one person i’ll wait for in that dungeon and it’s the tank, everyone else i’m not particularly bothered if they attend or not.
Edited by Astrid on December 27, 2021 4:00AM1 -
Gleitfrosch✭✭✭✭There should be a story mode for dungeons, with a difficulty level similar to basic quests but also no dungeon specific drops. Just basic overland loot.
Especially for dungeons which are tied to the story!0 -
Ippokrates✭✭✭✭✭So, as for today we have seen requests for:
1. PUGS with storytelling.
2. PUGS for seniors.
3. Easier dung PUGS.
4. Harder dung PUGS
5. Separate PUGS queue for DLC
6. Additional requirements for roles.
7. Penalties and bonuses for roles.
8. More locks to fight speedrunners.
9. Less locks because they are getting bugged
10. PUGS for trials
And i am pretty sure i have missed few ideas.
Well, to please everyone dev team would have to put a lot of effort.
OR maybe, just MAYBE, ZOS could finally invest some time in "communication" and give us things like:
1. Universal chats for all zone, so we do not need to jump between Craglorn, Deshaan, Deadland, etc. or sit in one place while waiting for ads, but look for other players from any place.
2. Advanced guild finder so ppl would have easier time while looking for a guild that fits their need. Also, increasing number of guilds player could be member of would be nice, because with limit of 5, it is hard to build a good collection of team for all activities.
Just a suggestion.0 -
Gleitfrosch✭✭✭✭Ippokrates wrote: »So, as for today we have seen requests for:
1. PUGS with storytelling.
2. PUGS for seniors.
3. Easier dung PUGS.
4. Harder dung PUGS
5. Separate PUGS queue for DLC
6. Additional requirements for roles.
7. Penalties and bonuses for roles.
8. More locks to fight speedrunners.
9. Less locks because they are getting bugged
10. PUGS for trials
And i am pretty sure i have missed few ideas.
Well, to please everyone dev team would have to put a lot of effort.
OR maybe, just MAYBE, ZOS could finally invest some time in "communication" and give us things like:
1. Universal chats for all zone, so we do not need to jump between Craglorn, Deshaan, Deadland, etc. or sit in one place while waiting for ads, but look for other players from any place.
2. Advanced guild finder so ppl would have easier time while looking for a guild that fits their need. Also, increasing number of guilds player could be member of would be nice, because with limit of 5, it is hard to build a good collection of team for all activities.
Just a suggestion.
In summary, we want options to setup the game experience the way we enjoy most.
One wants easier dungeons to play the story? set the option for him alone.
One wants harder dungeons? Set the options... maybe adding "conditions" to the dungeons finder could help, like f.e. division 2 has. Enemies do more damage, less stamina and magical, etc.0 -
SSX_Gryphon✭✭✭It's not a symptom of the current setup, it's a symptom of the people using the current setup. No matter what system you have in place, if a certain kind of person wants something and wants it quickly, they will find a way to abuse whatever's in place.
Sadly that means you have more chance to enjoy the content in a like minded guild and that for now seems to be the working approach.
On principle, that sucks because you're having to make adjustments in order to deal with the selfish folk at the root of it, whereas they will probably just continue doing as they do. All you can really do is ensure you're considerate enough not to be a part of the problem.
The folk who speedrun/class-fudge will have a million reasons as to why they shouldn't change. The folk who want to run at reasonable paces will have a million reasons as to why they should. It's human nature to try and control something we don't like but it's not really possible without some system with a million and one criteria, which is never a good thing.
It's unreasonable to expect a developer to train or socially engineer its users to be decent, courteous people.
There's merit to either side of the argument and no system will ever be foolproof. People need to have the freedom to behave as they will so long as it's within TOS.
I hate having to PUG, it drives me up the wall when someone zips off or fake-classes, and I have my own views on it. That said, if I want my opinion to be respected and considered, I should be prepared to consider and respect the opinion of others that runs to the contrary.
It's a people thing, not a feature thing.0 -
Auztinito✭✭✭They should do either of these things.
Allow all dungeons to have a solo option.
Nerf Player Power so they can’t power through normal dungeons requiring players to tank, heal, and ect.
Remove story and dialogue out of dungeons and into zones. Make completing the dungeon the requirement to completing the quest..
Edited by Auztinito on December 27, 2021 11:36AM0 -
hafgood✭✭✭✭✭
✭Or maybe, just maybe, everyone should get a grip and accept that people are people, a person is generally OK, but when you get into the realm of people (so 2 or more) problems arise. And no matter what Zos do or don't do there will always be complaints, there will always be disagreements.
There are threads after threads on this subject trying to give all the different perspectives but none of them matter because people are people and will always look to play in the way that suits them.
Yes some will say if yous say you have the quest I'll slow down, others will say when I say I have the quest you don't.
Some will say we need a real tank not a fake one, others will laugh and say on a normal? I can solo this.
And the list goes on and on.
Why? Because people are people, and as such will never meet the needs of everyone in a group of randomsEdited by hafgood on December 27, 2021 12:07PM0