New Group Dungeon System

BigDanT

Just a heads up. The New "Drag the party behind the [snip] that wants to rush through the dungeon" System sucks. They glitch the quests when your trying to complete the quests. They limit your ability to ready lore. [snip]

[edited for baiting & profanity bypass]

SeaGtGruff

This is one of the reasons why I prefer to solo dungeons. The best you can do is try to initiate a vote kick as soon as the offending player takes off like a rocket-- or, failing that, leave the group as soon as possible.

Vylaera

I think the solution for all these types of problems is just being able to tag yourself with something like "Harcore" "Casual" or something in between, and then the finder pairs you with people who have your tag. In between people are paired with both so that queues don't take ages.

Personally, I rush through dungeons because idc about the dungeon, I want the reward, and the fault is that the game pairs me with people who don't share my playstyle. Because I'm not going to wait around for people when I'm only here for transmutes and I have 8 more characters and 8 more queues to wait through and 8 more dungeons I have to do, and those people who want to experience the quest shouldn't have to rush through to keep up with me.

Artim_X

A lot of dungeon issues tend to be resolved with verbal and nonverbal communication. For instance, expressing in group chat that you're doing a quest or as mentioned above just vote kick a specific player.

SeaGtGruff

BroughBreaux wrote: »

I think the solution for all these types of problems is just being able to tag yourself with something like "Harcore" "Casual" or something in between, and then the finder pairs you with people who have your tag. In between people are paired with both so that queues don't take ages.

Personally, I rush through dungeons because idc about the dungeon, I want the reward, and the fault is that the game pairs me with people who don't share my playstyle. Because I'm not going to wait around for people when I'm only here for transmutes and I have 8 more characters and 8 more queues to wait through and 8 more dungeons I have to do, and those people who want to experience the quest shouldn't have to rush through to keep up with me.

How many transmute stones do you have?

Magio_

When players complain that people that are not ready for the harder vet DLC dungeons are put into our groups we're told that "That's the Random Finder, make your own group if you want a group that has a chance of clearing certain content."

Well, that same logic applies here, flawed as it may be in my opinion. So just join a guild and find people that want to play at your own slow pace.

Just because someone has already completed a dungeon multiple times and they don't care for the quest or the lore in it doesn't mean they're a "brain dead zombie" btw. There's nothing "offending" about it either. Some people have done some content hundreds of times.

Putting time-gated quest checkpoints in dungeons is dumb anyway. Blaming your fellow players and calling them names for a developer mistake is uncalled for.

SeaGtGruff

Magio_ wrote: »

When players complain that people that are not ready for the harder vet DLC dungeons are put into our groups we're told that "That's the Random Finder, make your own group if you want a group that has a chance of clearing certain content."

Well, that same logic applies here, flawed as it may be in my opinion. So just join a guild and find people that want to play at your own slow pace.

Just because someone has already completed a dungeon multiple times and they don't care for the quest or the lore in it doesn't mean they're a "brain dead zombie" btw. There's nothing "offending" about it either. Some people have done some content hundreds of times.

Putting time-gated quest checkpoints in dungeons is dumb anyway. Blaming your fellow players and calling them names for a developer mistake is uncalled for.

When you queue for a GROUP activity but then rush ahead of the rest of the group because you're just there to speed-run a random dungeon and grab your transmute crystals or other rewards (event tickets, event coffer, whatever), then you are being antisocial in a social situation that you consciously CHOSE to participate in.

Mind you, I'm not saying it's wrong to put your interests ahead of other people's interests. The main reason I play solo instead of with family, friends, and guildmates is because I put my own interests in the game ahead of anyone else's. But I'm playing solo, not queuing for a group activity. And when I'm playing alongside random strangers in a delve, public dungeon, or out in the overland areas, I try to make sure I let the other players get their hits in so they get looting privileges, or don't have to wait 15 minutes for a boss to respawn. It's just common courtesy.

Choosing to play the way you want to play is okay. Choosing to blame the devs because other players complain because your choice of playstyle in a group setting that you deliberately chose to participate in creates problems for them is not okay, IMO. We should all make our choices, but we shouldn't then turn around and try to dodge the consequences of our choices, or pin the blame on the devs.

Amottica

If one person is causing the issues why not vote to kick them? After all it is why Zenimax made it so we can vote to kick a group member.

Granted, I do not see this when I queue solo. Most of the time I group with guildmates to ensure I get a good group.

BigDanT

Magio_ wrote: »

When players complain that people that are not ready for the harder vet DLC dungeons are put into our groups we're told that "That's the Random Finder, make your own group if you want a group that has a chance of clearing certain content."

Well, that same logic applies here, flawed as it may be in my opinion. So just join a guild and find people that want to play at your own slow pace.

Just because someone has already completed a dungeon multiple times and they don't care for the quest or the lore in it doesn't mean they're a "brain dead zombie" btw. There's nothing "offending" about it either. Some people have done some content hundreds of times.

Putting time-gated quest checkpoints in dungeons is dumb anyway. Blaming your fellow players and calling them names for a developer mistake is uncalled for.

When I state before anyone is off in running in group chat that I AM doing the quest and they disregard what is being said and they are the only "1" person out of 4 running ahead and causing the others players to be drug past points of interest and quest locations then yes they are "A Brain Dead Zombie" because their only interest in the dungeon is the reward at the end and they refuse to bend for 1 dungeon run when 3 out of 4 players are taking their time. I personally do not feel my statement rude when it was a totally accurate statement. Not out to argue just defending my first statement.

BigDanT

Amottica wrote: »

If one person is causing the issues why not vote to kick them? After all it is why Zenimax made it so we can vote to kick a group member.

Granted, I do not see this when I queue solo. Most of the time I group with guildmates to ensure I get a good group.

The instance to which I am referring did not even offer me an opportunity to try to cast a a vote. The person bolted past quest zones and would not even offer the rest of us an opportunity to do anything. When you are drug past a position the screen goes black and an announcement pops up "You are being moved to the next location" If you were typing at the time it is gone and you are just along for the ride after that. Attempting to figure out if you are going to try to bail the dungeon and wait for 15 minutes because someone else could not wait for the 15 to 30 seconds it takes to complete a quest location. Yet alone try to hit P then initiate a vote to kick and hope everyone else gets to the message before the person sprints past the next quest location.

SimonThesis

I mean tbf when you already have the trifecta for a vet dungeon and your vet trials guild goes you must have this new meta set including the inferno by the end of the week to do this trial with us. What most people normally do is speed run normal 100+ times trying to get the piece of gear you want. Group finder should not place people like that with people who haven't done the quest yet. I think there should be a seperate Q if you haven't completed the quest yet.

BigDanT

BigDanT wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

If one person is causing the issues why not vote to kick them? After all it is why Zenimax made it so we can vote to kick a group member.

Granted, I do not see this when I queue solo. Most of the time I group with guildmates to ensure I get a good group.

The instance to which I am referring did not even offer me an opportunity to try to cast a a vote. The person bolted past quest zones and would not even offer the rest of us an opportunity to do anything. When you are drug past a position the screen goes black and an announcement pops up "You are being moved to the next location" If you were typing at the time it is gone and you are just along for the ride after that. Attempting to figure out if you are going to try to bail the dungeon and wait for 15 minutes because someone else could not wait for the 15 to 30 seconds it takes to complete a quest location. Yet alone try to hit P then initiate a vote to kick and hope everyone else gets to the message before the person sprints past the next quest location.

Also after they get out of aggro range of what they aggroed it now turns and attacks the other members of the party leaving them to try to deal with the left overs while trying to salvage everything else they are trying to do.

Grandchamp1989

I have been saying it for awhile now. In my experience the Dungeon Finder is now pure anarchy in both normal and vet.

karekiz

BigDanT wrote: »

Just a heads up. The New "Drag the party behind the [snip] that wants to rush through the dungeon" System sucks. They glitch the quests when your trying to complete the quests. They limit your ability to ready lore. [snip]

That's actually called really [snip] quest design. Quests shouldn't have progression breaks at all regardless of where you joined the dungeon etc. Its a relic from like 2016 that they never updated.

[snip]
[edited for profanity bypass, bashing & to remove quote]

Amottica

BigDanT wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

If one person is causing the issues why not vote to kick them? After all it is why Zenimax made it so we can vote to kick a group member.

Granted, I do not see this when I queue solo. Most of the time I group with guildmates to ensure I get a good group.

The instance to which I am referring did not even offer me an opportunity to try to cast a a vote. The person bolted past quest zones and would not even offer the rest of us an opportunity to do anything. When you are drug past a position the screen goes black and an announcement pops up "You are being moved to the next location" If you were typing at the time it is gone and you are just along for the ride after that. Attempting to figure out if you are going to try to bail the dungeon and wait for 15 minutes because someone else could not wait for the 15 to 30 seconds it takes to complete a quest location. Yet alone try to hit P then initiate a vote to kick and hope everyone else gets to the message before the person sprints past the next quest location.

Glad I tend to quest with guild mates then. Much better experience.

Ippokrates

BigDanT wrote: »

Just a heads up. The New "Drag the party behind the [snip] that wants to rush through the dungeon" System sucks. They glitch the quests when your trying to complete the quests. They limit your ability to ready lore. [snip]

And you can forget about chests, cause game will suck you in, like did it today to me in BDV ^^

[edited to remove quote]

jle30303

If the distance between players gets too great, it's the *front* player who should get dragged back, not the back players forwards.

Let him at least learn to kill as he goes, so that players who don't have his level of running speed and can't outrun the monsters at least aren't then slowed down further by having to fight them. If somebody runs ahead *but kills trash as he goes*, that's less of a problem because it allows people to catch up. Even then, they should be able to rest and recover stamina before starting the fight.

Better still: Boss should not spawn, or should not be hostile, if there is a player, any player, outside of the boss zone. If you want to start a fight against the boss and you're on your own, you wait for the rest of the party to catch up, or you go back and HELP them catch up. Or you go do the dungeon solo, so that there are no players behind you.

Vylaera

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

BroughBreaux wrote: »

I think the solution for all these types of problems is just being able to tag yourself with something like "Harcore" "Casual" or something in between, and then the finder pairs you with people who have your tag. In between people are paired with both so that queues don't take ages.

Personally, I rush through dungeons because idc about the dungeon, I want the reward, and the fault is that the game pairs me with people who don't share my playstyle. Because I'm not going to wait around for people when I'm only here for transmutes and I have 8 more characters and 8 more queues to wait through and 8 more dungeons I have to do, and those people who want to experience the quest shouldn't have to rush through to keep up with me.

How many transmute stones do you have?

12

Rudrani

BigDanT wrote: »

Just a heads up. The New "Drag the party behind the [snip] that wants to rush through the dungeon" System sucks. They glitch the quests when your trying to complete the quests. They limit your ability to ready lore. [snip]

You have to blame ZoS for this 100%, i am sorry.

The easiest source of transmutes is doing random normals on multiple characters. People who want that many transmutes are endgamers, who could easily solo the dungeons (but there would be no point, no transmutes).

In other words, by making the Dungeon Finder the most lucrative source of transmutes, ZoS forces endgamers in a rush to group with new players just trying to experience the game.

Its the worst system I could possibly think of.

[edited to remove quote]

Vylaera

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

When you queue for a GROUP activity but then rush ahead of the rest of the group because you're just there to speed-run a random dungeon and grab your transmute crystals or other rewards (event tickets, event coffer, whatever), then you are being antisocial in a social situation that you consciously CHOSE to participate in

This argument is in bad faith. Like, really bad faith. This is a stone's throw away from just outright lying about something. It's not a CHOICE when the ONLY way to get transmute crystals is by queueing for dungeons. Otherwise, you have to wait 30 days for a Cyrodiil campaign to end or get a measly 4 every 24 hours from Rewards of the Worthy, which would take you 31 days to get enough to reconstruct one 5 piece set if you have it down all the way to a cost of 25 per piece.

It's not a CHOICE when there's only ONE way to get something.

Nanfoodle

Funny, this is not what the community has been asking for. We just want a story mode for dungeons. Lower the loot quality and let us do story and forage the matts.

jle30303

Yes, it is a choice. The choice is "screw over other players" or "don't screw over other players". You will still get your transmute stones. But stick with the party, and KILL as you go instead of running past monsters. If there is dialogue which is required for a quest, WAIT for the quest if another player needs it.

It still won't take very long, and you will speed the rest of the party up by killing as you go, instead of leaving monsters alive that they can't run through because they don't have the speed to outrun them.

Nanfoodle

Rudrani wrote: »

BigDanT wrote: »

Just a heads up. The New "Drag the party behind the [snip] that wants to rush through the dungeon" System sucks. They glitch the quests when your trying to complete the quests. They limit your ability to ready lore. [snip]

You have to blame ZoS for this 100%, i am sorry.

The easiest source of transmutes is doing random normals on multiple characters. People who want that many transmutes are endgamers, who could easily solo the dungeons (but there would be no point, no transmutes).

In other words, by making the Dungeon Finder the most lucrative source of transmutes, ZoS forces endgamers in a rush to group with new players just trying to experience the game.

Its the worst system I could possibly think of.

This. I play a healer and I hate doing dungeons in this game because of the community.

[edited to remove quote]

xeNNNNN

BroughBreaux wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

When you queue for a GROUP activity but then rush ahead of the rest of the group because you're just there to speed-run a random dungeon and grab your transmute crystals or other rewards (event tickets, event coffer, whatever), then you are being antisocial in a social situation that you consciously CHOSE to participate in

This argument is in bad faith. Like, really bad faith. This is a stone's throw away from just outright lying about something. It's not a CHOICE when the ONLY way to get transmute crystals is by queueing for dungeons. Otherwise, you have to wait 30 days for a Cyrodiil campaign to end or get a measly 4 every 24 hours from Rewards of the Worthy, which would take you 31 days to get enough to reconstruct one 5 piece set if you have it down all the way to a cost of 25 per piece.

It's not a CHOICE when there's only ONE way to get something.

I dont think they appreciate the fact that most of us have already done these dungeons so many times that its almost like being tortured to just slowly...ever so slowly slog through them over and over especially the long or vanilla dungeons that take longer than 5 minutes.

Vaults of madness, Black heart, WGT, Prison, Cradle, Ruins, moonhunter, march of sacrifices. They're all slogs and not fun ones either. Especially with some that have mechanics that people still do not know how to do after all this time. I had to farm Vaults at one point for an inferno for pvp. THAT was pain.

They mistake being anti-social with simply not having a willingness to mind-numbingly bore oneself out with tedium and waste valuable time. If they want story they should just do it on normal..thats the whole point.

xeNNNNN

Rudrani wrote: »

BigDanT wrote: »

Just a heads up. The New "Drag the party behind the [snip] that wants to rush through the dungeon" System sucks. They glitch the quests when your trying to complete the quests. They limit your ability to ready lore. [snip]

You have to blame ZoS for this 100%, i am sorry.

The easiest source of transmutes is doing random normals on multiple characters. People who want that many transmutes are endgamers, who could easily solo the dungeons (but there would be no point, no transmutes).

In other words, by making the Dungeon Finder the most lucrative source of transmutes, ZoS forces endgamers in a rush to group with new players just trying to experience the game.

Its the worst system I could possibly think of.

I would hardly call dungeon finder the most lucrative source of transmute crystals. I get way more crystals from PvP than I ever will from PvE dungeon dailies. Between 8 characters and rewards of the worth I end up exceeding my needs for crystals by a wide margin comparatively. Geodes in pvp often drop 10 for me as well.

at one point I had used 1000 and then gained 1000 by the end of the campaign.

[edited to remove quote]

xeNNNNN

BroughBreaux wrote: »

I think the solution for all these types of problems is just being able to tag yourself with something like "Harcore" "Casual" or something in between, and then the finder pairs you with people who have your tag. In between people are paired with both so that queues don't take ages.

Personally, I rush through dungeons because idc about the dungeon, I want the reward, and the fault is that the game pairs me with people who don't share my playstyle. Because I'm not going to wait around for people when I'm only here for transmutes and I have 8 more characters and 8 more queues to wait through and 8 more dungeons I have to do, and those people who want to experience the quest shouldn't have to rush through to keep up with me.

I can agree with this though I do think some sort of hardcore queue may risk that particular queue becoming entirely too sweaty because of expectations and so forth.

Vylaera

So lets break it down, since apparently calling people "brain dead zombies" is acceptable for playing the game as intended.

You need two five-piece sets and one two-piece monster set or two mismatched one-piece mismatched monster sets per character.

If you have the set fully collected, and this is a big if, because 9/10 you won't have the set fully collected, that's a grand total of 300 transmute crystals required to reconstruct these pieces of gear.
5 x 25 = 125
125 x 2 = 250
25 x 2 = 50
250 + 50 = 300

Now, let's see how many transmute crystals we can get each day from Rewards of the Worthy.

The transmute geode acquired from these boxes has a """"""Random"""""" chance of giving you anywhere between 4 and 24 transmute crystals. However, extensive testing has shown this isn't actually the case, and that the randomness is weighted towards lower numbers. The average amount of transmute crystals one can acquire from these boxes each day is roughly 5, when accounting for the fact that some days you might get more than 4, but these occasions are usually rare, and in my anecdotal experience, I have never gotten anything higher than 10.

300 / 5 = 60

In this 60 day time period, two Cyrodiil campaigns (theoretically) could have started and ended. However, one campaign to end is all you'd need to reach 300 in addition to the daily openings.

So if we reduce this 300 number to 250, since we get 50 for free from a campaign ending, the new total is 50 days.

You cannot tell me in good faith that this is a reasonable time frame to get one character geared up. Now factor in that most people have alts, and this becomes (even more) prohibitively inefficient (as if it wasn't already).

So you're just going to have to deal with us running through the dungeon because I'm certainly not waiting 50 days to gear up one single character when I have to change my entire setup on most of my characters every time a new patch goes live because ZOS devs have ADHD and have to change everything for the sake of changing everything every roughly 3 months.

Lord_Hev

90% of ESO's entire lifespan had no reconstruction system at all. This does not suddenly excuse people to act like animals.

This big meta drive faze is a psychological construct that gets pushed by a meta mentality. The sky is not following, there is no need to make other random's experiences in a group que miserable because someone is in a rush.

Amottica

BroughBreaux wrote: »

I think the solution for all these types of problems is just being able to tag yourself with something like "Harcore" "Casual" or something in between, and then the finder pairs you with people who have your tag. In between people are paired with both so that queues don't take ages.

Personally, I rush through dungeons because idc about the dungeon, I want the reward, and the fault is that the game pairs me with people who don't share my playstyle. Because I'm not going to wait around for people when I'm only here for transmutes and I have 8 more characters and 8 more queues to wait through and 8 more dungeons I have to do, and those people who want to experience the quest shouldn't have to rush through to keep up with me.

The problem with this is some people will tag themselves as being better than they really are so they can have good players to carry them through challenging dungeons or they may think they are that good or just do not understand what it means. Heck, I have had someone complain about my DPS as a healer yet combat metrix was showing I was out DPSing both them and the other damage dealer. Some do not understand.

Vylaera

jle30303 wrote: »

Yes, it is a choice. The choice is "screw over other players" or "don't screw over other players". You will still get your transmute stones. But stick with the party, and KILL as you go instead of running past monsters. If there is dialogue which is required for a quest, WAIT for the quest if another player needs it.

Yeah, so spend 45(x8) minutes meandering through a dungeon so I can get transmute crystals since that's the only efficient source by which to get them.

The problem isn't people maximizing their time efficiency, the problem is ZOS locking transmutes behind the queue. They could EASILY make it to where the final boss of the first dungeon you complete each day on each character drops the 10 crystal geode and this problem would be solved because we can solo them.

This isn't even to mention that the only reason you guys can get a queue to pop off as all is because people are farming the dungeons for the loot, Undaunted keys, or transmutes. The amount of people who do dungeons for fun is very small and queue times would skyrocket without farmers to fill spots. This is why the above solution hasn't be done.

Amottica

BroughBreaux wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

Yes, it is a choice. The choice is "screw over other players" or "don't screw over other players". You will still get your transmute stones. But stick with the party, and KILL as you go instead of running past monsters. If there is dialogue which is required for a quest, WAIT for the quest if another player needs it.

Yeah, so spend 45(x8) minutes meandering through a dungeon so I can get transmute crystals since that's the only efficient source by which to get them.

The problem isn't people maximizing their time efficiency, the problem is ZOS locking transmutes behind the queue. They could EASILY make it to where the final boss of the first dungeon you complete each day on each character drops the 10 crystal geode and this problem would be solved because we can solo them.

This isn't even to mention that the only reason you guys can get a queue to pop off as all is because people are farming the dungeons for the loot, Undaunted keys, or transmutes. The amount of people who do dungeons for fun is very small and queue times would skyrocket without farmers to fill spots. This is why the above solution hasn't be done.

I think the problem is people want a very different type of run and do not bother to take a few moments to form their group from guild, and yes it takes only moments to do so. I know because I do it. As such there are people who queue solo and have a complete disregard for others.

Granted, I suggest people like the OP form their group from guild as well but that is so they do not have to deal with the selfish people they ran with today. Heck, even if they queue with three guildmates they can more efficiently kick the 4th person if needed.