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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – November 18
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – November 19, 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EST (23:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: EU megaserver for maintenance – November 19, 23:00 UTC (6:00PM EST) - November 20, 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
Overland Content Feedback Thread
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Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Or new players coming to eso expecting more out of the combat leave before giving the game a chance with a bad taste in their mouth talking about how stale of an experience it was.
We don't know what new players may be looking for in a game, or assume they all want difficult content. We can only accurately give our own feedback from our own experiences.
And if they don't stick around long enough to even bother giving feedback, we can't judge how many players that is, but just like you and others had issues with early ESO, so to could many others.
That is like in EVE - 50% do not even make it over their first 2 hours and 80% drop the game within a week - that is a win, because it takes a certain kind of player to enjoy a pvp everywhere game and those leaving are just not the kind of player who will benefit the community of the game - it is a win that they leave early.
They don't leave because its PVP everywhere to which you could play the game in the high sec systems if you want and be protected. They leave because it has an extreme learning curve. They tried revamping the new play experience years ago.
Statistics show though, that highsec is the most dangerous with the most kills - and that it has a huge learning curve cannot be experienced in 2 hours or a week - they leave by other reasons. CONCORD is not there to protect you anyway, to think this would be protective is what gets people killed. I think they are leaving because getting killed has consequences - it is unlike in other pvp games.
Good lord yes you can Gank in high sec. There are other full loot pvp games. You people are literally trying to turn this game into Wizards101. Also, believe it or not and hold on to your butt, plenty of us love Elderscrolls and wait for it, like playing games not visual novels. Oh oh here is another nugget, you don't work for the company. All because YOU want a software application you can log into, walk around, and larp in does not mean the rest of us are cool with that. And using the idea that you can rope off players so the newbies you so want to protect somehow can have a safe space in a mostly PVE game. A game that you can't even run trains on people for all us EQ and Asheron's Call people.
[snip]
[snip] because we have both a very different kind of game play - it is incompatible. [snip]
And there is a reason why I don't like your kind of game play - what is it in fact?- you have a very high tolerance to "grinding" to get the gear you need - and you have a well trained eye-hand-coordination and can press buttons very quickly in the right order [snip] For you your personal skills count, to me those skills of my characters count, not mine - they have own skills and abilities and a personality as well - I role play them, I am not the character - you are using them as avatars to play yourself - that is not anything like I am playing the game - I am not my characters.
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 23, 2022 11:44AM0 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
I am not the one saying the game has to be changed - I like it as it is - [snip]
Is it so weird that I, a player who has experienced the more challenging content in ESO and has grown accustom to it, seeks to actually enjoy the entire rest of the world of tamriel, but I am having difficulties doing it because of how trivial the experience is? How engaging is a delve into the dead lands when the most dangerous thing to me is a tornado I willingly throw myself into? How hyped can I be for a year-long plot to stop a world ending threat, when I know after the reveal trailer that the antagonist is just going to be a pushover? Is it hard for you to imagine that for some people, the gameplay aspect of a video game, an interactive piece of media, would have the experience of the world and stories influenced by the gameplay? Is it weird to expect the same breath of available experiences provided in every other area of the game to at least in some way be respected here as well?
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 23, 2022 11:46AM9 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have 17 characters so far. Only 1 of them has actually done overland quests a lot (even then not fully, I stopped near end of Cadwell's Gold). Other 16 characters don't do questing at all (except Psijic guild skill line).
How can anyone accurately evaluate something they haven't experienced?PCNA1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I am not the one saying the game has to be changed - I like it as it is - [snip]
Is it so weird that I, a player who has experienced the more challenging content in ESO and has grown accustom to it, seeks to actually enjoy the entire rest of the world of tamriel, but I am having difficulties doing it because of how trivial the experience is? How engaging is a delve into the dead lands when the most dangerous thing to me is a tornado I willingly throw myself into? How hyped can I be for a year-long plot to stop a world ending threat, when I know after the reveal trailer that the antagonist is just going to be a pushover? Is it hard for you to imagine that for some people, the gameplay aspect of a video game, an interactive piece of media, would have the experience of the world and stories influenced by the gameplay? Is it weird to expect the same breath of available experiences provided in every other area of the game to at least in some way be respected here as well?
Oh I very well understand your point of view - but I look at it from my perspective - what will this add to my game play - [snip]
Of course if they would offer me a private instance, that would be even better and if this would be customizable, you and me both could be happy with it - [snip] - this is my only concern with this. It might be selfish, but that is how it is - I want to enjoy the game as well in the way I'm playing it. It is not asked for too much, to be able to comfortably role play in a role playing game, is it?
And to @LashanW - you explained it quite well, why I was wrong with assuming there would have to be a consent about the difficulty levels, thank you for that, it made it much clearer from where you are coming from.
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 23, 2022 11:52AM0 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭So your point of view is 'better them to leave then risk them being put in the same instance as me?' If ZOS saw a sudden uptick in people in zones, because there are more players playing the content, they would be thrilled. That's the point of the zones existing. If you wanted to go against some of the people who oppose the idea of a vet instance then you could suggest they lower the zone population cap, causing more instances to be created anyway, which would result in a more divided player base than what veteran instances would create.
The simple fact of the matter is, ESO is an MMO, players will interact with one another. I still stand by the idea that creating a rule set to make veteran instances a thing would be the more stable option, and would bypass this issue, but the alternatives that don't use this, that do put more players 'in your way' would also leave those players, looking for a challenge, at a direct disadvantage where they very well could be going through the content at the same pace as you. So, any additional players added by such a solution into your zones would be going through content slower. The players who blitz are going to do it regardless because most of them are there for skyshards or the like, not the content.3 -
Harvokaan✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »I have 17 characters so far. Only 1 of them has actually done overland quests a lot (even then not fully, I stopped near end of Cadwell's Gold). Other 16 characters don't do questing at all (except Psijic guild skill line).
How can anyone accurately evaluate something they haven't experienced?
I think someone who have 17 chars and almost completed Cadwell's Gold have pretty huge experience of overland content, probably much better then someone who have multiple characters yet never reached cp level (as for example they managed to check it on many different levels of power)
Cadwell's Gold only is around 300h, depends if you are doing all side quests or not. 300h in content like overland that present no difficulty is enough to fully understand pros and cons of such content.6 -
Harvokaan✭✭✭✭
Wow that is a pretty toxic way of thinking tbh. There is no one true way how ppl should experience elder scrolls game. And why ESO being for them just another game is a bad thing? It is what it is, an online game that for some might be a second life and for anothers just couple hours of entertainment in a week. Both playstyles are valid till they dont hurt your health or rl.
You claim most of ppl dont care about combat but it is a combact centric game where vet content is released each year so there must be a significant part of population that come here for combat. Some come for pvp. Some for housing simulator.
You are not better then any of us by "having connection to TES" whatever that means.
If devs would have the same approach then the game probably would be already dead. It is not some divine product or game of the century. It is an mmo that gather different ppl that comes here for different reasons and cheering for ppl leaving the game because they come here for the different reasons then you is, well to put it politely, not really healthful, both for the game and a person that is doing so.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 23, 2022 11:54AM10 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So your point of view is 'better them to leave then risk them being put in the same instance as me?' If ZOS saw a sudden uptick in people in zones, because there are more players playing the content, they would be thrilled. That's the point of the zones existing. If you wanted to go against some of the people who oppose the idea of a vet instance then you could suggest they lower the zone population cap, causing more instances to be created anyway, which would result in a more divided player base than what veteran instances would create.
The simple fact of the matter is, ESO is an MMO, players will interact with one another. I still stand by the idea that creating a rule set to make veteran instances a thing would be the more stable option, and would bypass this issue, but the alternatives that don't use this, that do put more players 'in your way' would also leave those players, looking for a challenge, at a direct disadvantage where they very well could be going through the content at the same pace as you. So, any additional players added by such a solution into your zones would be going through content slower. The players who blitz are going to do it regardless because most of them are there for skyshards or the like, not the content.
Well, who knows, maybe ZOS is as well thrilled by the idea, that there are solo players like me, who are not happy to have other people around and would gladly pay for a private instance - I would even go as far as paying 25 dollars per month to get this - they could make a fortune with players like me, if they would just drop the idea, that everyone has to be forced to deal with other players. This important it is to me. I want to quest without others interfering - and that is as valid a wish as yours to get harder content - but I am willing to pay for it, whereas you aren't.
It is as well not about going through the content slower - but about that there is no content if others kill everything - these quests are no fun, not because they are designed in a bad way, but because I very rarely ever can experience a quest like it is designed - because it is mainly empty, the enemies I am supposed to encounter are dead or not there at all - this is a lackluster experience not worth doing like this.
And why we are at it - let's be honest - you are as well not going to quest - you will blitz everything until you reach the story bosses and then fight them - because that is what you want to be harder - all the rest is just to be nuked like before.Edited by Lysette on January 23, 2022 11:01AM0 -
ShalidorsHeir✭✭✭✭
Replayability is a very good point as well. A option to reset the whole story line to replay the stories with your favourite characters after youve done it complety once. (im for instance are not the type of player with 18 chars - i like to play the 3 aspects of myself that i like to progress on and on and playing somehting else simply feels wrong to me). Also for me it has to be higher difficulty. I think over the long term most players would end up there, in that kind of veteran instance. (not going to explain it again
we've done this like 100 times in this thread already) He is summing it up accurately. The rest has been said in this thread already as well. Especially the lack of challenging content for solo playing / playing on your own without needing a group. Edited by ShalidorsHeir on January 23, 2022 10:58AMEltrys Wolfszahn
Julia Ansei at-Tava
C H I M
"Find a new hill, become a king"4 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Wow that is a pretty toxic way of thinking tbh. There is no one true way how ppl should experience elder scrolls game. And why ESO being for them just another game is a bad thing? It is what it is, an online game that for some might be a second life and for anothers just couple hours of entertainment in a week. Both playstyles are valid till they dont hurt your health or rl.
You claim most of ppl dont care about combat but it is a combact centric game where vet content is released each year so there must be a significant part of population that come here for combat. Some come for pvp. Some for housing simulator.
You are not better then any of us by "having connection to TES" whatever that means.
If devs would have the same approach then the game probably would be already dead. It is not some divine product or game of the century. It is an mmo that gather different ppl that comes here for different reasons and cheering for ppl leaving the game because they come here for the different reasons then you is, well to put it politely, not really healthful, both for the game and a person that is doing so.
That is the result of putting two incompatible player groups into the same game - one side doesn't like the other - they might be able to tolerate each other, if they do not interact with each other that often, but if they have to interact, then it gets bad and these feelings get out - from both sides -[snip] None of us is happy like this - [snip] - this is an elder scrolls game, a role playing game - that is where it is coming from and where it's main audience is.
Maybe the easiest way out would be to just flag ourselves as role player, mixed or combat-centric - and be put into instances with like-minded people. It has of course as well a draw back, because those wanting to troll others know then exactly where to go.
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 23, 2022 11:56AM0 -
ShalidorsHeir✭✭✭✭
Wow that is a pretty toxic way of thinking tbh. There is no one true way how ppl should experience elder scrolls game. And why ESO being for them just another game is a bad thing? It is what it is, an online game that for some might be a second life and for anothers just couple hours of entertainment in a week. Both playstyles are valid till they dont hurt your health or rl.
You claim most of ppl dont care about combat but it is a combact centric game where vet content is released each year so there must be a significant part of population that come here for combat. Some come for pvp. Some for housing simulator.
You are not better then any of us by "having connection to TES" whatever that means.
If devs would have the same approach then the game probably would be already dead. It is not some divine product or game of the century. It is an mmo that gather different ppl that comes here for different reasons and cheering for ppl leaving the game because they come here for the different reasons then you is, well to put it politely, not really healthful, both for the game and a person that is doing so.
That is the result of putting two incompatible player groups into the same game - one side doesn't like the other - they might be able to tolerate each other, if they do not interact with each other that often, but if they have to interact, then it gets bad and these feelings get out - from both sides - [snip] None of us is happy like this - [snip] - this is an elder scrolls game, a role playing game - that is where it is coming from and where it's main audience is.
erm, caution please. There are less players enjoying RP only (exclusive) compared to those who enjoy combat inlcuding those who enjoy everything like me. As a matter of fact. And since we all pay somehow to run the servers and develpment in this game you can enjoy your RP as well. It needs everyone and there is no majority. YOu can make categories but stop flagging people to one specific and only one of these... you are just wrong at this point. Thats not how ESO works and became successful.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 23, 2022 11:57AMEltrys Wolfszahn
Julia Ansei at-Tava
C H I M
"Find a new hill, become a king"1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ShalidorsHeir wrote: »
Wow that is a pretty toxic way of thinking tbh. There is no one true way how ppl should experience elder scrolls game. And why ESO being for them just another game is a bad thing? It is what it is, an online game that for some might be a second life and for anothers just couple hours of entertainment in a week. Both playstyles are valid till they dont hurt your health or rl.
You claim most of ppl dont care about combat but it is a combact centric game where vet content is released each year so there must be a significant part of population that come here for combat. Some come for pvp. Some for housing simulator.
You are not better then any of us by "having connection to TES" whatever that means.
If devs would have the same approach then the game probably would be already dead. It is not some divine product or game of the century. It is an mmo that gather different ppl that comes here for different reasons and cheering for ppl leaving the game because they come here for the different reasons then you is, well to put it politely, not really healthful, both for the game and a person that is doing so.
That is the result of putting two incompatible player groups into the same game - one side doesn't like the other - they might be able to tolerate each other, if they do not interact with each other that often, but if they have to interact, then it gets bad and these feelings get out - from both sides - [snip] None of us is happy like this - [snip] - this is an elder scrolls game, a role playing game - that is where it is coming from and where it's main audience is.
erm, caution please. There are less players enjoying RP only (exclusive) compared to those who enjoy combat inlcuding those who enjoy everything like me. As a matter of fact. And since we all pay somehow to run the servers and develpment in this game you can enjoy your RP as well. It needs everyone and there is no majority. YOu can make categorizes but stop flagging people to one specific and only one of these... you are just wrong at this point. Thats not how ESO works and became successful.
It was a failure for as long as it was level-gated and more difficult - what made it successful was opening up the world with One Tamriel and scale content to be rather easy - that made it sucessful - and that is not pointing to combat-centric at all.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 23, 2022 12:04PM0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ShalidorsHeir wrote: »You lack the context for that change and the experience of all content types in this argument. As you did when mentioning majorities again. Thats all i have to say about these absolute statements ...
Well, Rich said that 2/3 of the content wasn't played, when it was more difficult and that is why they changed it. Craglorn in it's more difficult version failed, He said as well, just a minority wants it more difficult, most do not want difficulty in their story. Do you think you know it better than Rich does?
Furthermore players of different levels should be able to play together - that one hasn't to reroll a character to play with a friend - that is what the scaling was for - to make this possible - and that is why it is rather easy - and it is more successful this way, otherwise ZOS would have changed it already - but their game is thriving like this - so most like it the way it is.Edited by Lysette on January 23, 2022 12:12PM0 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anyways back to the feedback. We currently have 2 solo arenas, one being really old comparatively (still heavily enjoyable through) so at the very least turning end of the year / dlc battle into an optional solo-arena-like encounter (like having just one round of the arena) would be quite an improvement for the solo players out there and ones who actually want to play more when their group disbands for the evening without visiting the same two places for years. Making this battles repeatable would also be insanely handy improvement if handled correctly, making wait for a new actual solo content to come more bearable.1 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Eh, Lysette - I believe you are the only person playing an MMORPG I've ever run across who wants that MMORPG to offer a solo, single player instance just for one person.
The reason I'm playing this game is that while I'm not about to group because I'm not going to expect people to put up with my ping, I LOVE seeing the world full and busy with other "not static NPCs" - other real people moving their characters to the beat of their own drummers.... That makes the world of ESO in the second era a living place to me. I do still play and love Oblivion and Skyrim - but even with player-created content, they're really static experiences.
*baffled* Each to her own of course - but I'd even prefer a harder overland to just another SP solo game at this point; I wouldn't last long in a harder overland, but at least the world would look like it should.1 -
ShalidorsHeir✭✭✭✭Many play and pay, many get content. NOT many pay and only you get your desired content and claim you are the majority. (Actually you are the only one who wants an instance per player it seems, considering your logic ZOS has to ignore you therefore - but that should not be the goal, just saying its egoistic once more)
The world being filled with players and good content so everyone can enjoy it is what everyone should want. A healthy game provides a healthy environment for everyone inlcuding youself. And ESO does a great job already but content needs to receive updates/extensions here and then simply to sync with the current community needs and requirements. And its not just about new players or low tier players. All of us are one community sharing the same place for joy. ZOS needs to address long term players as well and they need address mid and end tier players. If applicable, everyone should feel good here. Besides the moral stuff, thats how you run a business...
Thats why we are discussing overland and provide feedback, NOT to discourage and blame people because they do not have the exact same opinion on things. Thats toxic and by 0 means constructive ... Its even worse claiming that all the people who enjoy contents, like combat, are not supposed to play ESO at all because they ruining your game experience, where the obvious problem is that you simply dont want to play MMOs/Online RPGs ...
No elder scrolls game in history was successful because of stories alone, or whatever people would lead here as the "majorities content" .. simply hinding the fact they have no arguments anymore. All the game mechanics and aspects put together is what makes an elder scrolls game worth running the title "Elder scrolls". A large variety of content to choose from is what enlarges the audience you were talking about. Just saying.
So please lets get back to overland for everyone.Edited by ShalidorsHeir on January 23, 2022 2:47PMEltrys Wolfszahn
Julia Ansei at-Tava
C H I M
"Find a new hill, become a king"1 -
ShalidorsHeir✭✭✭✭
Anyways, due to this "majority" stuff this awesome video got a way to less attention in this thread yet. Replayability should be, so i think, one of the main arguments for overland extensions next to immersion in general and difficulty to generate immersion. Maybe we could get a "reset zone" button next to the map which does what it tells you do to
once you have completed a map. I would really like to replay certain zones on my favourite characters. That would help alot already in my opinion independing of possible difficulty changes.
Eltrys Wolfszahn
Julia Ansei at-Tava
C H I M
"Find a new hill, become a king"0 -
Ronin37✭✭✭So your point of view is 'better them to leave then risk them being put in the same instance as me?' If ZOS saw a sudden uptick in people in zones, because there are more players playing the content, they would be thrilled. That's the point of the zones existing. If you wanted to go against some of the people who oppose the idea of a vet instance then you could suggest they lower the zone population cap, causing more instances to be created anyway, which would result in a more divided player base than what veteran instances would create.
The simple fact of the matter is, ESO is an MMO, players will interact with one another. I still stand by the idea that creating a rule set to make veteran instances a thing would be the more stable option, and would bypass this issue, but the alternatives that don't use this, that do put more players 'in your way' would also leave those players, looking for a challenge, at a direct disadvantage where they very well could be going through the content at the same pace as you. So, any additional players added by such a solution into your zones would be going through content slower. The players who blitz are going to do it regardless because most of them are there for skyshards or the like, not the content.
Well, who knows, maybe ZOS is as well thrilled by the idea, that there are solo players like me, who are not happy to have other people around and would gladly pay for a private instance - I would even go as far as paying 25 dollars per month to get this - they could make a fortune with players like me, if they would just drop the idea, that everyone has to be forced to deal with other players. This important it is to me. I want to quest without others interfering - and that is as valid a wish as yours to get harder content - but I am willing to pay for it, whereas you aren't.
It is as well not about going through the content slower - but about that there is no content if others kill everything - these quests are no fun, not because they are designed in a bad way, but because I very rarely ever can experience a quest like it is designed - because it is mainly empty, the enemies I am supposed to encounter are dead or not there at all - this is a lackluster experience not worth doing like this.
And why we are at it - let's be honest - you are as well not going to quest - you will blitz everything until you reach the story bosses and then fight them - because that is what you want to be harder - all the rest is just to be nuked like before.
You do know there are several highly rated single player ES games that you can go play? "Edited for snip reasons"Edited by Ronin37 on January 23, 2022 3:54PM0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »Eh, Lysette - I believe you are the only person playing an MMORPG I've ever run across who wants that MMORPG to offer a solo, single player instance just for one person.
The reason I'm playing this game is that while I'm not about to group because I'm not going to expect people to put up with my ping, I LOVE seeing the world full and busy with other "not static NPCs" - other real people moving their characters to the beat of their own drummers.... That makes the world of ESO in the second era a living place to me. I do still play and love Oblivion and Skyrim - but even with player-created content, they're really static experiences.
*baffled* Each to her own of course - but I'd even prefer a harder overland to just another SP solo game at this point; I wouldn't last long in a harder overland, but at least the world would look like it should.
I don't really want a separate instance, but I would also take it over a single player private instance. This is an MMO, the ability to see others and potentially group with them is part of what makes the genre interesting. Don't get me wrong, I like single player games too. But, that's not what I'm looking for when I boot up an MMO. I don't mind not tackling an objective right away while I wait for enemies to load in, I just treat it like another loading screen that I can do other stuff in, and then go forward once the instance is in a space that I can enjoy it. It's a small price to play for the all the good things multiplayer gaming brings to the table, including experiences that would only work in a group.Edited by spartaxoxo on January 23, 2022 4:38PM2 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭...
And why we are at it - let's be honest - you are as well not going to quest - you will blitz everything until you reach the story bosses and then fight them - because that is what you want to be harder - all the rest is just to be nuked like before.
You're saying that to the person who endlessly brings examples of how standard enemies fail to be engaging while offering solutions on how to do that. I spent my first few years questing in ESO, and it wasn't until after Morrowind that my warden healer was my way of getting into vet trials, with vet dungeons being the highest level content I did prior. I love the world, and the questing, and the overall experience, I just want it so when an npc says "that army of monsters is unstoppable" that I'm not able to cleave through them without thought while walking through the neighborhood.0 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I just want it so when an npc says "that army of monsters is unstoppable" that I'm not able to cleave through them without thought while walking through the neighborhood.
I have done every quest in every zone on 3 characters and am starting this now on a new character. I don't remember any quests telling me that any mobs are unstoppable. The closest they get to that is telling us they need us to defeat the main story boss because we are the hero and are the one who can defeat them.
I don't have any expectation that any mobs are supposed to be unstoppable so I am not disappointed that I can easily defeat them and it makes sense to me from the story perspective.Edited by SilverBride on January 23, 2022 5:14PMPCNA1 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »I just want it so when an npc says "that army of monsters is unstoppable" that I'm not able to cleave through them without thought while walking through the neighborhood.
I have done every quest in every zone on 3 characters and am starting this now on a new character. I don't remember any quests telling me that any mobs are unstoppable. The closest they get to that is telling us they need us to defeat the main story boss because we are the hero and are the one who can defeat them.
I don't have any expectation that any mobs are supposed to be unstoppable so I am not disappointed that I can easily defeat them and it makes sense to me from the story perspective.
It's not a direct example but the idea. If they're going to build up a threat to be something that "only this artifact can solve the problem," but I know full well my sword to the problem's face would save us 5 quests, 2 emotional cutscenes, 1 side characters' death, and a Tuesday afternoon, I would just do that.3 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »I just want it so when an npc says "that army of monsters is unstoppable" that I'm not able to cleave through them without thought while walking through the neighborhood.
I have done every quest in every zone on 3 characters and am starting this now on a new character. I don't remember any quests telling me that any mobs are unstoppable. The closest they get to that is telling us they need us to defeat the main story boss because we are the hero and are the one who can defeat them.
I don't have any expectation that any mobs are supposed to be unstoppable so I am not disappointed that I can easily defeat them and it makes sense to me from the story perspective.
It's not a direct example but the idea. If they're going to build up a threat to be something that "only this artifact can solve the problem," but I know full well my sword to the problem's face would save us 5 quests, 2 emotional cutscenes, 1 side characters' death, and a Tuesday afternoon, I would just do that.
That's why I support challenge banners so a player can choose a more difficult boss fight.PCNA1 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »I just want it so when an npc says "that army of monsters is unstoppable" that I'm not able to cleave through them without thought while walking through the neighborhood.
I have done every quest in every zone on 3 characters and am starting this now on a new character. I don't remember any quests telling me that any mobs are unstoppable. The closest they get to that is telling us they need us to defeat the main story boss because we are the hero and are the one who can defeat them.
I don't have any expectation that any mobs are supposed to be unstoppable so I am not disappointed that I can easily defeat them and it makes sense to me from the story perspective.
It's not a direct example but the idea. If they're going to build up a threat to be something that "only this artifact can solve the problem," but I know full well my sword to the problem's face would save us 5 quests, 2 emotional cutscenes, 1 side characters' death, and a Tuesday afternoon, I would just do that.
I don't particularly feel this way about the trash mobs, but I agree that the story and mini bosses do make me feel that. I mean Rada-Al-Saran feels like such a menace and such a huge threat. His plan is one of the wildest I have seen in an Elder Scrolls game, and his voice actor just SOLD that menace, let me tell ya. And then, we actually got to fight him, and while he was harder than previous bosses thanks to his immunity phases and the like. He was still way too easy. And it was like "Well, that's the end of that chapter."
Mannimarco, Molag Bal,, Rada-al-Saran, etc, etc. These are names that should make us nervous to face down, and triumphant when we end them, to me personally. You know I've actually jumped out of my seat and cheered at defeating hard enemies in other games? But, instead these guys are nothing.Edited by spartaxoxo on January 23, 2022 5:36PM2 -
Arthtur✭✭✭✭✭
✭I cant believe in some comments part 2....
We are back at the start will all those arguments....
1) Nobody wants to destroy YOUR fun. We just want to be able to enjoy overland too. There were a lot of ideas how to make it more enjoyable without hurting anyone. So please, can we stop with this "You want to destroy my fun"? Its old after 80 pages of text.
2) Its an MMO. Even if its The Elder Scrolls its still MMO. Disagreeing with everybody just because u want everything for yourself is a weak move.
[snip]
4) Overland before One Tamriel had a lot more problems. It wasnt a failure just because of difficulty. Everything there was forced on you. You have this lv? You do this zone. Oh u lv up? Go there now.
Not only that but entire population was split in 3. EP, AD, DC - each of those had its own "server" for each zone. Imagine how bad it was...
Craglorn before OT was a forced group content that u had to do in order to lv up to the max lv. The key word is forced. Nobody here wants to do it again.
[snip] No difficulty at all destorys everything because i dont have fun. But im not a [snip] and i can think about needs of other ppl. And i would like if other ppl would think about my needs [snip]
5) Nobody is talking about difficulty because we either know what "veteran" means or we cant because somebody is disagreeing all the time about the need for optional difficulty in overland.
6) Back to Craglorn. Sorry but Craglorn is easy. It was kinda hard when i was still a new player but u know, i wasnt expecting that everything would be for me from the start of the game. I was happy that there is harder zone in overland. But when i become better player... well... 50% more hp for trash mobs doesnt change much. Yes there is more mobs but they still die in aoe skills pretty fast. And WB are a joke, sorry. Half of the delves are a joke too because the delve boss has less hp than mobs xD.
And i still love Craglorn at the same time when i hate it. I did it just for fun few times already but there is nothing that rewards my time spend here as the best rewards are for picking up flowers.
So yeah... Just because something isnt at the level of Visual Novel it doesnt mean its too hard. In half of this "hard content" u only need Brawler from 2H skill line, which gives rly big shield, in order to not die.
Aaaaand i lost my strength to say more. I wrote the same things too many times already...
So rly fast:
- Stop using New Players as a shield. U dont know what they expect from the game. If they search for challenge they will be dissapointed in lack of challenge in overland. If they look for story there is a lot to enjoy for them and nobody is trying to destroy it anyway.
- [snip] Just because there is +1 in data from me doing some quests in overland, doesnt mean that i enjoy doing it. It was fun when i was new player. Now i cant even do it without falling asleep or rushing through it to just get it done.
- [snip] EVERYONE in this game is a player who DESERVES to have fun. [snip] ZOS is getting REAL MONEY for this. Im paying for "my" fun, not "your" fun. So i have rights to demand some things in content. Most of the time im LOOSING the content that i enjoy because ppl complain that its too hard. Like Frostvault and Moon Hunter Keep.... they removed half of the mechanics here... So keep it up and there wont be any "minority" left. And their money.
- The same with "but its too much work"... They get money for it. The better stuff they add the more money they will get.
- Just because this game has such great story doesnt mean it cant have great challenge too. As a lot of ppl said this game has potential to be the best for enjoying story AND enjoying endgame AND enjoying PvP AND whatever u want to do, like housing....
And im too lazy for more. [snip]
[edited for baiting & profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 23, 2022 6:52PM8 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »I just want it so when an npc says "that army of monsters is unstoppable" that I'm not able to cleave through them without thought while walking through the neighborhood.
I have done every quest in every zone on 3 characters and am starting this now on a new character. I don't remember any quests telling me that any mobs are unstoppable. The closest they get to that is telling us they need us to defeat the main story boss because we are the hero and are the one who can defeat them.
I don't have any expectation that any mobs are supposed to be unstoppable so I am not disappointed that I can easily defeat them and it makes sense to me from the story perspective.
It's not a direct example but the idea. If they're going to build up a threat to be something that "only this artifact can solve the problem," but I know full well my sword to the problem's face would save us 5 quests, 2 emotional cutscenes, 1 side characters' death, and a Tuesday afternoon, I would just do that.
I don't particularly feel this way about the trash mobs, but I agree that the story and mini bosses do make me feel that. I mean Rada-Al-Saran feels like such a menace and such a huge threat. His plan is one of the wildest I have seen in an Elder Scrolls game, and his voice actor just SOLD that menace, let me tell ya. And then, we actually got to fight him, and while he was harder than previous bosses thanks to his immunity phases and the like. He was still way too easy. And it was like "Well, that's the end of that chapter."
Mannimarco, Molag Bal,, Rada-al-Saran, etc, etc. These are names that should make us nervous to face down, and triumphant when we end them, to me personally. You know I've actually jumped out of my seat and cheered at defeating hard enemies in other games? But, instead these guys are nothing.
Oh yeah, that guy! I saw him, mentioned him in an earlier post, I think. "You can ask ME a question, but I will ask YOU one in return, muhahaha." "How many arrows can fit in your face?" "Wut?" That's the interaction in my memory of him, to be honest, though the quest line kinda lost me before I ran across him again.0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »I just want it so when an npc says "that army of monsters is unstoppable" that I'm not able to cleave through them without thought while walking through the neighborhood.
I have done every quest in every zone on 3 characters and am starting this now on a new character. I don't remember any quests telling me that any mobs are unstoppable. The closest they get to that is telling us they need us to defeat the main story boss because we are the hero and are the one who can defeat them.
I don't have any expectation that any mobs are supposed to be unstoppable so I am not disappointed that I can easily defeat them and it makes sense to me from the story perspective.
It's not a direct example but the idea. If they're going to build up a threat to be something that "only this artifact can solve the problem," but I know full well my sword to the problem's face would save us 5 quests, 2 emotional cutscenes, 1 side characters' death, and a Tuesday afternoon, I would just do that.
I don't particularly feel this way about the trash mobs, but I agree that the story and mini bosses do make me feel that. I mean Rada-Al-Saran feels like such a menace and such a huge threat. His plan is one of the wildest I have seen in an Elder Scrolls game, and his voice actor just SOLD that menace, let me tell ya. And then, we actually got to fight him, and while he was harder than previous bosses thanks to his immunity phases and the like. He was still way too easy. And it was like "Well, that's the end of that chapter."
Mannimarco, Molag Bal,, Rada-al-Saran, etc, etc. These are names that should make us nervous to face down, and triumphant when we end them, to me personally. You know I've actually jumped out of my seat and cheered at defeating hard enemies in other games? But, instead these guys are nothing.
Oh yeah, that guy! I saw him, mentioned him in an earlier post, I think. "You can ask ME a question, but I will ask YOU one in return, muhahaha." "How many arrows can fit in your face?" "Wut?" That's the interaction in my memory of him, to be honest, though the quest line kinda lost me before I ran across him again.
His quest line is awesome if you follow along. Rada is thus far one of my favorite villains. His motivations are understandable, he tries to be genteel but is actually a total monster. He's got confidence to play that game with the Vestige because he's defeated many powerful enemies before and doesn't yet fully grasp how very different you are. To be fair, even Molag Bal didn't understand the Vestige's power completely and your character's power level is a mystery they haven't even fully revealed. So when foes feel confident they can defeat you, it's because they don't understand what a force of nature the vestige is and how different they are to everyone else on Nirn.
But regardless, Rada is probably the best of the inhuman enemies because he views people as food, and shows the same regard for them as we might a cow. But, he actually cares deeply about his fellow vampires. The way Verandis and Rada talk about the non-vampire citizens of Nirn actually makes them feel like totally different beings with an outlook on things that is appropriate to their monstrosity. Like ofc if Vampires existed, it feels natural that some of them would think like Rada. And that actually makes the concept of Vampires actually scary again both in ES series (which has so many good notable Vampires at this point that it feels like more a sickness than a monster type) and in general, it's nice to see because of the way Vampires in general have been written in modern times to be less monstrous. He has the same levels of "I want to end the world" villany as other evil vamps in the game, but he feels more "realistic" and thus more scary if that makes sense? Like understanding why he wants what he wants makes him more effective at that than ones that just want more power for power's sake, or for non-sensical reasons.
So I really enjoyed Rada, and think its' a real shame that this powerful, ancient, confident monster ended up being a pushover. For me personally, him and Molag Bal being easy is what grinded my gears the most. Because they aren't some empowered servant like Veya or the Greymoor King, but they are the big scary guys themselves. I haven't yet done the storyline for the Deadlands, but I imagine it will be more of the same disappointment.Edited by spartaxoxo on January 23, 2022 6:48PM2 -
summ0004✭✭✭
It was a failure for as long as it was level-gated and more difficult - what made it successful was opening up the world with One Tamriel and scale content to be rather easy - that made it sucessful - and that is not pointing to combat-centric at all.
Commercial success does not equate to critical success, and what was the situation 7 years ago does not represent the situation now or that of the future.
The game has changed partly as a result of powercreep, knowledge and somewhat dumbing down of things on ZOS end since the introduction of one tamriel update.
It is very apparent that some sort of change is required in ESO to make it suitable to more players in relation to overland content.4
http://"][/url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJisNEf934Q