Overland Content Feedback Thread

Taraezor

Adding my two-bob's worth...

With opt-in difficulty please do NOT provide extra or better rewards beyond: more gold, more XP, more white/green gear trash. Ie: nothing that could be construed as significant enough that less able / old (senior) / newcomers / handicapped / casual players feel they are missing out.

I am in a couple of those above categories.

Many long time players want increased difficulty. But many long time players are also fearful that they'll be locked out of content too. I am already locked out of Trials and high level PvP. I don't want to be locked out of Overland content too.

Sure, make the vocal group clammouring for more difficulty happy. Give them that but nothing more and make it opt in. That means that the rest of us can continue on as per normal playing the greatest ever MMORPG!

Attorneyatlawl

Cooperharley wrote: »

It's very simple and dont know why there's even argument over this.

Make it optional - an opt in system so people get to choose. Reward harder gameplay with more xp, more gold than normal, higher quality (I.e. purple instead of blue) quest rewards/armor, and maybe some cool achievements and titles for completing the stuff on a higher difficulty just like in every other game ever.

People can challenge themselves to chase the rewards and have the quests feel more interesting OR if they struggle with what we're at currently, which is hard to imagine, but not completely unimaginable, then they don't have to do it. What's the problem here lol?

This. 100% agreed, and if it means I have less time needed grinding cp to catch up, while getting to enjoy the quests, that's a big win.

mocap

There is nothing related to overland dif in update 46. ZOS'ers either changed their minds or put it off till winter.

spartaxoxo

mocap wrote: »

There is nothing related to overland dif in update 46. ZOS'ers either changed their minds or put it off till winter.

It's the latter. They said they got a team working on it and they're still prototyping something. But, they did let us know it's still coming and current plan is it will be optional.

ETA

Content pass period not necessarily winter

Taraezor

Ahhh higher Overland difficulty. I advocated for higher XP being acceptable. But now I realise that that means easier CP. Nah, that's too big of a reward. Give em titles and more gold sure. But no CP boost. XP/CP boost rates are already available via purchased drinks I think?

spartaxoxo

Taraezor wrote: »

Ahhh higher Overland difficulty. I advocated for higher XP being acceptable. But now I realise that that means easier CP. Nah, that's too big of a reward. Give em titles and more gold sure. But no CP boost. XP/CP boost rates are already available via purchased drinks I think?

Players who use it would be at a disadvantage without an XP boost to compensate the slower rate of killing and less mobs able to be killed. This is why XP is a standard reward for this sort of feature in most games. So that a player can continue to enjoy the functionality of questing without being penalized for wanting to enjoy the game's story.

I'm not sure how that's too big of a reward when anyone questing on normal would also be getting to level up as a reward, and likely at a better pace just by virtue of being able to handle many adds at once.

This feels like anything even remotely decent is too big, tbh.

Taraezor

Yes. Anything remotely decent is too big. Exactly.

Give the players begging for more difficulty just that. More difficulty on tap.

Let the nomries continue as is. And ensure the normies don't feel locked out - nothing extra offered thus we don't feel as though we've been locked out.

Win win for everone you'd have to agree. We all get what we want

Taraezor

Increased difficulty CP exploit!

Will trivial zone dailies be considered as Overland content too? Like crafting dailies and the other simple dailies everywhere?

Because if XP is added to the "increased difficulty" then I guarantee you I'll log in every day to exploit the sweet CP boost. Swiitch on higher difficulty, do my dailies, then switch off and play normally. Sweet as exploit! Buy up XP drinks too off the Crown store with my stock of unused ESO+ crowns.

Vivec City crafting area may get a bit crowded

spartaxoxo

Quotes Snipped for brevity

Taraezor wrote: »

Yes. Anything remotely decent is too big. Exactly.

I don't want to be worse off for wanting a harder overland story?

I just want the questing to be functional and immersive, same as it is for you all.

Taraezor wrote: »

Increased difficulty CP exploit!

I don't see how a "normie" would be so eager to join for exp. They turn down far greater rewards in all other vet content. How is playing content as it's designed an exploit?

Is a exp pot and soloing ndsa, Spellscar, or Skyreach an "exploit?"

Tariq9898

I’ll be happy if vet overland gets extra gold and that’s it!

There definitely has to be some extra reward. But NOT too extreme. For me personally, all I care about is $$$. Ideally, I’d like veteran questing to be an effective way of earning gold. I don’t care about purple gear or any overland weapons/armor. I don’t need extra XP as I’m already 1900 CP. I don’t need extra crafting resources.

Taraezor

Tariq9898 wrote: »

I’ll be happy if vet overland gets extra gold and that’s it!

There definitely has to be some extra reward. But NOT too extreme. For me personally, all I care about is $$$. Ideally, I’d like veteran questing to be an effective way of earning gold. I don’t care about purple gear or any overland weapons/armor. I don’t need extra XP as I’m already 1900 CP. I don’t need extra crafting resources.

Good on you!

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I don't want to be worse off for wanting a harder overland story?

I just want the questing to be functional and immersive, same as it is for you all.

Excellent! Then all you want is more difficulty so that you get that immersive feeling. Fantastic. No need for extra rewards on top. Some players are trying to sneak in extra stuff into the request, under the guise of "I ONLY want it to be a bit harder"

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I don't see how a "normie" would be so eager to join for exp. They turn down far greater rewards in all other vet content. How is playing content as it's designed an exploit?

Is a exp pot and soloing ndsa, Spellscar, or Skyreach an "exploit?"

We turn down the difficult stuff because we can't do it! It's not voluntary. We are simply locked out due to many factors such as time pressures in life - insufficient time to git good. Handicap issues. Age related issues. Family issues. No access to some of the content for cost reasons. List goes on and on.

spartaxoxo

Taraezor wrote: »

Excellent! Then all you want is more difficulty so that you get that immersive feeling. Fantastic. No need for extra rewards on top. Some players are trying to sneak in extra stuff into the request, under the guise of "I ONLY want it to be a bit harder"

It is not wanting extra to want to not be worse off for enabling a feature. Please don't twist what I say. I explicitly stated I think the feature needs some sort of reward to compensate the slower rate of killing. Exp and coin make the most sense to me. But I'd take whatever. I just don't think it should be exclusive.

Taraezor wrote: »

We turn down the difficult stuff because we can't do it! It's not voluntary. We are simply locked out due to many factors such as time pressures in life - insufficient time to git good. Handicap issues. Age related issues. Family issues. No access to some of the content for cost reasons. List goes on and on.

Most people who don't do difficult content are doing so because they don't wish to do it. People who can't do it are not at a disadvantage if someone else gets exp. Moreover, accessibility does not mean that someone who is able to get vet content should be punished for doing it. Accessibility also does not mean that only easy content should get fun stuff.

It means providing access to the harder content as much as possible without disrupting the purpose of that content. It means not locking people permanently out of rewards within reason. It means providing variety in method of obtainment where possible.

There is no exclusivity to exp. There is no disadvantage to getting the same exp as someone else for the same amount of time spent playing. There is no permanent lockout of exp. Wanting to prevent anything decent from this feature except trash has nothing to do with accessibility.

ADarklore

If they don't put this increased overland difficulty as an OPTION... then I'll leave the game again... period. I'm only returning for subclassing- but if they in turn ruin my questing experience by forcing me to spend more time clearing mobs just to turn in a quest- my time can best be spent elsewhere. I don't play games for 'challenge', I play them to relax and have fun... and endlessly fighting damage sponges is NOT my idea of relaxing or fun.

spartaxoxo

ADarklore wrote: »

If they don't put this increased overland difficulty as an OPTION... then I'll leave the game again... period. I'm only returning for subclassing- but if they in turn ruin my questing experience by forcing me to spend more time clearing mobs just to turn in a quest- my time can best be spent elsewhere. I don't play games for 'challenge', I play them to relax and have fun... and endlessly fighting damage sponges is NOT my idea of relaxing or fun.

They already said the current plan is it's going to be optional.

sans-culottes

Taraezor wrote: »

Adding my two-bob's worth...

With opt-in difficulty please do NOT provide extra or better rewards beyond: more gold, more XP, more white/green gear trash. Ie: nothing that could be construed as significant enough that less able / old (senior) / newcomers / handicapped / casual players feel they are missing out.

I am in a couple of those above categories.

Many long time players want increased difficulty. But many long time players are also fearful that they'll be locked out of content too. I am already locked out of Trials and high level PvP. I don't want to be locked out of Overland content too.

Sure, make the vocal group clammouring for more difficulty happy. Give them that but nothing more and make it opt in. That means that the rest of us can continue on as per normal playing the greatest ever MMORPG!

@Taraezor, rewards like cosmetics and titles already exist behind content that not everyone can or wants to complete. That has been the case for years. Trials, veteran dungeons, and hard modes have exclusive rewards, yet no one claims those systems are exclusionary.

Optional difficulty needs an incentive. Players who opt in to a harder experience should not be expected to accept slower XP, more risk, and longer fights with nothing in return. That is not a power grab. It is basic game design.

No one is being “locked out” by someone else choosing to play differently. Suggesting otherwise relies on imagined harm to justify denying others the chance to enjoy the game more fully.

disky

Tariq9898 wrote: »

I’d like veteran questing to be an effective way of earning gold.

I doubt gold gain in overland will ever become anywhere near as effective as trading, or even daily writs, will be. God, I can only imagine the gold farmers if it were.

I don't personally care about increased rewards at all, but I think a bit more gold makes sense. I also think increased XP makes sense, and increased item quality. None of these things needs to be excessive.

Kallykat

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Quotes Snipped for brevity

Taraezor wrote: »

Yes. Anything remotely decent is too big. Exactly.

I don't want to be worse off for wanting a harder overland story?

I just want the questing to be functional and immersive, same as it is for you all.

I don't really understand how you would be "worse off" if there was no reward increase. I mean, I guess you might not earn as much in difficult mode as quickly as you would in normal mode, but that's a choice you (and each individual player) would make based on whether you were prioritizing rewards or "functional and immersive" questing.

You would certainly not be "worse off" than other players who couldn't participate in difficult mode. Those are the players who would take approximately the same time to collect the same rewards in normal mode as you who insist normal mode is too easy would take in difficult mode.

spartaxoxo

Kallykat wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Quotes Snipped for brevity

Taraezor wrote: »

Yes. Anything remotely decent is too big. Exactly.

I don't want to be worse off for wanting a harder overland story?

I just want the questing to be functional and immersive, same as it is for you all.

I don't really understand how you would be "worse off" if there was no reward increase. I mean, I guess you might not earn as much in difficult mode as quickly as you would in normal mode, but that's a choice you (and each individual player) would make based on whether you were prioritizing rewards or "functional and immersive" questing.

You would certainly not be "worse off" than other players who couldn't participate in difficult mode. Those are the players who would take approximately the same time to collect the same rewards in normal mode as you who insist normal mode is too easy would take in difficult mode.

My exp gain isn't about what someone else can do. It is about what I can do.

If I used to kill 100 mobs for 1000 exp in one hour and now I can only kill 50 mobs for 500 exp in one hour, then I earn less exp for the same amount of playtime. (Numbers for illustration purposes only). Objectively, gameplay wise, I am worse off questing to level up an alt in hard. Which means if I want to level up an alt to 50, I have to pick between function and immersion.

This is not a choice or a tradeoff for casual mode players. They can use questing for immersion and function.

Immersion + Function = normal

Immersion only = vet

That is objectively worse off. I have lost the entire gameplay functionality of questing.

So, then the question becomes does that tradeoff serve a purpose? If you're going to penalize players for using a gameplay function, there should be an actual point to the penalty. For example, you lose out on transmute crystals if you queue directly for Fungal Grotto instead of using random finders to ensure that players can get a group for any dungeon.

There is no sense to a exp penalty for overland difficulty. There is no queue to protect. How much exp I get has nothing to do with anyone else because exp is a solo, bound resource. Exp is also an abundant resource that is not exclusive to questing.

There are no negative impacts to anyone else except players disliking the idea of vets getting something decent or deciding on their own to always do the max reward version of everything. The latter is self-inflicted and not a good reason to destroy the gameplay function of a system. Neither should games be balanced around what one group of players feels another deserves IMO.

This is why pretty much every game that gives players a difficulty option also adjusts exp and coin gain, so that the only thing players have to decide on which mode they want to play is which mode would be the most fun and immersive. Some go further to making the game actively reward picking harder difficulties. But, most at least do the bare minimum of making it a net neutral decision. I actually have never played a game that did not. Or at least not one I can recall at this moment

colossalvoids

Kallykat wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Quotes Snipped for brevity

Taraezor wrote: »

Yes. Anything remotely decent is too big. Exactly.

I don't want to be worse off for wanting a harder overland story?

I just want the questing to be functional and immersive, same as it is for you all.

I don't really understand how you would be "worse off" if there was no reward increase. I mean, I guess you might not earn as much in difficult mode as quickly as you would in normal mode, but that's a choice you (and each individual player) would make based on whether you were prioritizing rewards or "functional and immersive" questing.

You would certainly not be "worse off" than other players who couldn't participate in difficult mode. Those are the players who would take approximately the same time to collect the same rewards in normal mode as you who insist normal mode is too easy would take in difficult mode.

It's about character progression having same speed, basic exp and gold /h of "normal play" I'm pretty sure. Just stuff difficulty options are giving as a baseline, covering expenses and speed of unlocking your kit's skills and overall character advancement.

Kallykat

sans-culottes wrote: »

Taraezor wrote: »

Adding my two-bob's worth...

With opt-in difficulty please do NOT provide extra or better rewards beyond: more gold, more XP, more white/green gear trash. Ie: nothing that could be construed as significant enough that less able / old (senior) / newcomers / handicapped / casual players feel they are missing out.

I am in a couple of those above categories.

Many long time players want increased difficulty. But many long time players are also fearful that they'll be locked out of content too. I am already locked out of Trials and high level PvP. I don't want to be locked out of Overland content too.

Sure, make the vocal group clammouring for more difficulty happy. Give them that but nothing more and make it opt in. That means that the rest of us can continue on as per normal playing the greatest ever MMORPG!

@Taraezor, rewards like cosmetics and titles already exist behind content that not everyone can or wants to complete. That has been the case for years. Trials, veteran dungeons, and hard modes have exclusive rewards, yet no one claims those systems are exclusionary.

Optional difficulty needs an incentive. Players who opt in to a harder experience should not be expected to accept slower XP, more risk, and longer fights with nothing in return. That is not a power grab. It is basic game design.

No one is being “locked out” by someone else choosing to play differently. Suggesting otherwise relies on imagined harm to justify denying others the chance to enjoy the game more fully.

That's precisely why players who can't participate in trials, dungeons, etc., who are already locked out of exclusive rewards from that content, don't want there to be even more unobtainable exclusive rewards added to an overland hard mode.

The incentive, supposedly, is the enjoyment and challenge people have been requesting. People who are not eager to jump into overland hard mode for its own sake don't need an incentive to do so. Why should ZOS incentivize people to play in overland hard mode? And how is keeping the rewards the same "denying others the chance to enjoy the game more" when supposedly enjoying the game more comes from more difficult overland content?

Maybe "locked out" isn't the best term, but rewards that are only obtainable through challenging content are not accessible to all players (for a variety of reasons which multiple people have already laid out on this board). It's not that those players want to punish others who "play differently." It's that they don't want to miss out on yet more rewards.

spartaxoxo

-snipped-

Kallykat wrote: »

Maybe "locked out" isn't the best term, but rewards that are only obtainable through challenging content are not accessible to all players (for a variety of reasons which multiple people have already laid out on this board). It's not that those players want to punish others who "play differently." It's that they don't want to miss out on yet more rewards.

Which is why I don't agree with exclusive rewards on one and done content. But "you can't have anything at all and should be worse off for daring to want to enjoy the story," (not a direct quote of anyone just an example) takes things too far in the other direction. How the game feels to play for people who would actually use the game mode is just as important as it would feel to those who opt out. It's not fair to force a tradeoff for one group and not the other. It's not fair to have someone work twice as hard for half the rewards.

Rewards that aren't exclusive is sensible and fair.

I'm not talking about giant flashy mounts or whatever right now.

Kallykat

spartaxoxo wrote: »

-snipped-

Kallykat wrote: »

Maybe "locked out" isn't the best term, but rewards that are only obtainable through challenging content are not accessible to all players (for a variety of reasons which multiple people have already laid out on this board). It's not that those players want to punish others who "play differently." It's that they don't want to miss out on yet more rewards.

Which is why I don't agree with exclusive rewards on one and done content. But "you can't have anything at all and should be worse off for daring to want to enjoy the story," (not a direct quote of anyone just an example) takes things too far in the other direction. How the game feels to play for people who would actually use the game mode is just as important as it would feel to those who opt out. It's not fair to force a tradeoff for one group and not the other. It's not fair to have someone work twice as hard for half the rewards.

Rewards that aren't exclusive is sensible and fair.

I'm not talking about giant flashy mounts or whatever right now.

I don't think you understand that for some people they are working just as hard in normal mode as others would be working in difficult mode. Also, no one is arguing that we want the other side to be "worse off for daring to enjoy the story." I know you used that example not as a direct quote, but I don't think it even accurately represents what's being argued. You supposedly will be better off because you'll have the thing you've been craving--more challenging and engaging overland.

(To be fair, I don't think a difficult mode should have exclusive rewards, but I'm still deciding how I feel about things like increased gold, xp, etc. The latter seems to me to be at least the more palatable option. I was mainly commenting because I disagreed with some of your earlier arguments.)

AlterBlika

Taraezor wrote: »

Yes. Anything remotely decent is too big. Exactly.

Give the players begging for more difficulty just that. More difficulty on tap.

Let the nomries continue as is. And ensure the normies don't feel locked out - nothing extra offered thus we don't feel as though we've been locked out.

Win win for everone you'd have to agree. We all get what we want

Nah it's only natural to give more rewards on higher difficulties. More xp for mobs, quests, better loot, more gold maybe? That's no game changer honestly, it would seem a bit off to get the same rewards, especially since vet content always gives more.

I don't think we're getting some really exclusive rewards although that would be nice.

spartaxoxo

Kallykat wrote: »

I don't think you understand that for some people they are working just as hard in normal mode as others would be working in difficult mode. Also, no one is arguing that we want the other side to be "worse off for daring to enjoy the story."

I do understand that which is why I said I don't support exclusives.

No rewards is absolutely arguing that I should be worse off for daring to enjoy the story. Because that is the natural consequence to me of the position.

I would be objectively worse off, gameplay wise. We would have to work twice as hard for half the exp. It would literally take longer to kill things and be harder to kill things. So, exp would also be less. The amount of exp you get from quests is whatever the quest itself gives and the amount of enemies you kill over time. The less enemies killed over time, the less exp you get. Objectively.

That's what the position of no rewards means for a vet player.

It's funny how this whole conversation around exp treats normal mode users desire for a functional and rewarding experience as legitimate, and vet players desire for the exact same thing as a loot grab. We are being asked to give up everything for an interesting story. You call it a tradeoff. I call it breaking the functionality of the quest. Either way you slice it, it means vet players are being asked to be worse off gameplay wise to improve the story.

Kallykat

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Kallykat wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Quotes Snipped for brevity

Taraezor wrote: »

Yes. Anything remotely decent is too big. Exactly.

I don't want to be worse off for wanting a harder overland story?

I just want the questing to be functional and immersive, same as it is for you all.

I don't really understand how you would be "worse off" if there was no reward increase. I mean, I guess you might not earn as much in difficult mode as quickly as you would in normal mode, but that's a choice you (and each individual player) would make based on whether you were prioritizing rewards or "functional and immersive" questing.

You would certainly not be "worse off" than other players who couldn't participate in difficult mode. Those are the players who would take approximately the same time to collect the same rewards in normal mode as you who insist normal mode is too easy would take in difficult mode.

My exp gain isn't about what someone else can do. It is about what I can do.

If I used to kill 100 mobs for 1000 exp in one hour and now I can only kill 50 mobs for 500 exp in one hour, then I earn less exp for the same amount of playtime. (Numbers for illustration purposes only). Objectively, gameplay wise, I am worse off questing to level up an alt in hard. Which means if I want to level up an alt to 50, I have to pick between function and immersion.

This is not a choice or a tradeoff for casual mode players. They can use questing for immersion and function.

Immersion + Function = normal

Immersion only = vet

That is objectively worse off. I have lost the entire gameplay functionality of questing.

So, then the question becomes does that tradeoff serve a purpose? If you're going to penalize players for using a gameplay function, there should be an actual point to the penalty. For example, you lose out on transmute crystals if you queue directly for Fungal Grotto instead of using random finders to ensure that players can get a group for any dungeon.

There is no sense to a exp penalty for overland difficulty. There is no queue to protect. How much exp I get has nothing to do with anyone else because exp is a solo, bound resource. Exp is also an abundant resource that is not exclusive to questing.

There are no negative impacts to anyone else except players disliking the idea of vets getting something decent or deciding on their own to always do the max reward version of everything. The latter is self-inflicted and not a good reason to destroy the gameplay function of a system. Neither should games be balanced around what one group of players feels another deserves IMO.

This is why pretty much every game that gives players a difficulty option also adjusts exp and coin gain, so that the only thing players have to decide on which mode they want to play is which mode would be the most fun and immersive. Some go further to making the game actively reward picking harder difficulties. But, most at least do the bare minimum of making it a net neutral decision. I actually have never played a game that did not. Or at least not one I can recall at this moment

First, the function part of the equation would still be there in hard mode because you would be able to earn the same rewards just at a slower rate. It would be functional but not as efficient as normal mode for you. Btw, this is not the case with other content like difficult dungeons and trials for which your equations would look like: for you = immersion + function; for casual/struggling players = nothing (no immersion or function).

Second, there is no penalizing of anyone in this hypothetical maintained rewards situation unless you are arguing that "penalization" is just not getting as much as you would get if you chose to play the game differently, in which case casual players are being penalized constantly.

Third, I would argue that while there is no direct harm to casual players in your proposed reward system (i.e. no one is taking away something they already earned), that doesn't mean there are absolutely no negative effects. Systems that reward skilled players more than struggling players create environments in which the "rich get richer and the poor get poorer." Pouring more gold into difficult mode, for example, will effect the economy, which does impact casual players. Even having more powerful gear drop in higher difficulty modes puts players who are already more skilled that much further ahead of players who can only complete content that drops comparatively worse gear. These systems drive a deeper wedge between skilled and unskilled players, between those who can tackle difficult content and those who can't. Just because most games and even previous systems within this game do it, that doesn't make it the best solution or mean it has no negative impact.

And btw, my arguments are not about prioritizing what one group of players feels if deserved any more than yours are.

spartaxoxo

Kallykat wrote: »

First, the function part of the equation would still be there in hard mode because you would be able to earn the same rewards just at a slower rate.

It would not be functional because it would be so slow as to make all other options vastly superior. It would "force" vet players into the casual mode to level up alts for the exact same reasons such a thing have exclusive rewards would "force" casuals into vet. Nobody wants to feel like their time is completely worthless.

Questing is already garbage at rewarding players exp, that's the whole reason for all the complaints in this thread. And your proposal cuts those rewards in half for vet players.

100 mobs for 1000 exp in 1 hour on normal
50 mobs for 500 exp on hard in 1 hour on vet
50 mobs for 1000 exp in 1 hour on vet with modifier

1000 exp = 1000 exp

Exp cannot be sold. There is no harm or impact to casuals at all with that. None.

There is no harm to economy from me making the exact same gold as I have made for 10 years.

Casual players are far more impacted by the existence of perfected gear, which nobody asked for, then vet dungeons dropping purple instead of blue. It is dirt cheap to purple gear. There are very few of the sets even worth mentioning.

ETA

Anyway, that is the last I'll say about this for now.

I agree that there should be no exclusive rewards. I don't want casuals to be forced into vet mode because the rewards are so lopsided superior. Likewise, I don't want to be forced into a casual mode to level an alt for the same reason. I believe the rewards should be equal for equal time spent. This way the only reason to choose one over the other is an individuals wants/needs when it comes to difficulty/immersion. That about sums it up for me.

Deserrick

If the idea of rewarding players for making things harder and slower for the sake of immersion is applied consistently, that would mean that a player who makes things harder and slower for themselves by using non-optimal skills and equipment should likewise have their rewards increased.

Muizer

Deserrick wrote: »

If the idea of rewarding players for making things harder and slower for the sake of immersion is applied consistently, that would mean that a player who makes things harder and slower for themselves by using non-optimal skills and equipment should likewise have their rewards increased.

Apart from the many ingredients objectively going into such an equation, and the fact that such granularity is quite over the top, one might wonder how to draw the line between a self-imposed handicap and a lack of skill. A few difficulty tiers with a compensation in quantitative terms (i.e. no unique or higher quality items) is much simpler and just as effective.

Deserrick

Muizer wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

If the idea of rewarding players for making things harder and slower for the sake of immersion is applied consistently, that would mean that a player who makes things harder and slower for themselves by using non-optimal skills and equipment should likewise have their rewards increased.

Apart from the many ingredients objectively going into such an equation, and the fact that such granularity is quite over the top

Keep track of how much xp over time is being gained while in combat, and adjust a reward multiplier accordingly.

Muizer wrote: »

A few difficulty tiers with a compensation in quantitative terms

If the reason for that is because risk and slowness increase when choosing an option to increase immersion, and that a reward multiplier needs to be in effect in order to have the same rewards in the same time frame as less immersive options, as has been argued by many posts recently, then the same multiplier needs to be in effect for any increase of immersion that results in a decrease in farming efficiency.

Muizer

Deserrick wrote: »

Keep track of how much xp over time is being gained while in combat, and adjust a reward multiplier accordingly.

And if you did that, exactly what would that multiplier represent? Cannot assume that's just immersion.

Deserrick wrote: »

If the reason for that is because risk and slowness increase when choosing an option to increase immersion, and that a reward multiplier needs to be in effect in order to have the same rewards in the same time frame as less immersive options, as has been argued by many posts recently, then the same multiplier needs to be in effect for any increase of immersion that results in a decrease in farming efficiency.

Gimping yourself in order to have harder fights doesn't actually increase immersion though. It's more like a zero-sum swapping of one concession for another. Now you're no longer killing the bear in under 5 seconds, but you're killing him with your bare hands wearing a loincloth.