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Overland Content Feedback Thread
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disky✭✭✭✭✭But I wonder how motivated ZoS would be to go back and nerf all the content they've introduced in the past few years? It's a tough pickle they're in, honestly...
I don't think it is. I think that while it would be potentially painstaking work, once it's done and enemies are "balanced" across zones and you have a blank slate, you are then free to create a system which adds life and energy back to the game for a lot of people, and probably bring some players back to the game while retaining those who would otherwise leave in boredom or frustration. It seems worthwhile to me.2 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Since High Isle, ZOS has effectively cut me off from zone quest stories due to increased difficulty. So at this point, as long as they leave "previous overland content" (meaning up until High Isle) alone, I'll still have things I can do. But unless whatever they choose to do is completely optional throughout all current content, I'll be looking for a different game. I'll be sad to say farewell to ESO, but all things must come to an end....______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....1 -
^ ???
I'm no hardcore player, but I just finished the West Weald and Scribing story lines without any difficulty. The world bosses and dolmen-equivalents are definitely a lot tougher than base game equivalents (I would not want to try and solo a mosaic right now). But just the story content is doable with attention to build and gear. I will admit, though, that having a companion helps somewhat!2 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Scribing wasn't a problem - until the crow wing end boss. I got him once on my highest CP account main, and that will be all of that thanks - especially since completing that wing really didn't do anything great and wonderful. All I really need from scribing is the 4 other wings' quests which are huge fun, and I'm not even using much from the scribing skills anyway.
I've posted elsewhere about how hard High Isle's story quest boss was for me (and so actually was Vandacia in Blackwood, and that DAMNED dragon in N Elsweyr). A good friend of mine told me how much harder the others are now, and I just don't need to do that. I'm a very casual player, enjoying the stories as I can, and I actually dislike combat especially in this game, so I'm well aware I'm really not "the target audience".______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....1 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Whatever ZoS does (if indeed they do anything), I would sincerely hope it would not be to the detriment of people who want a more casual experience...
Unfortunately they have and it is.
Since around High Isle the Story Bosses have gotten progressively more difficult with invulnerable phases that do nothing to make the fight more engaging but only serve to prolong it. It's reached a point that many players can no longer defeat these Bosses and complete the zone story.
The same with World Bosses with invulnerable phases, and now Incursions, too. And the group event Boss in Silorn is ridiculously difficult for a Public Dungeon, but thankfully it is having its difficulty adjusted down to something more reasonable.
They could make everyone happy if they stop putting invulnerable phases on every Boss, and stop increasing the difficulty of these Bosses more and more with every Chapter, and fix the ones that have already been taken too far, and just implement an optional slider or debuff for those that want it.
I want my more relaxing overland story experience back.
To be fair, this is the case with almost all video games though, isn't it? Especially MMOs. New content tends to become harder with new releases, because power creep generally has to be taken into account.
Most other games have different level zones that are played through in a linear order, and the max player level is increased with new expansions to handle the higher level zones. That isn't how ESO is set up.Edited by SilverBride on October 12, 2024 4:45PMPCNA3 -
Dahveed✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Whatever ZoS does (if indeed they do anything), I would sincerely hope it would not be to the detriment of people who want a more casual experience...
Unfortunately they have and it is.
Since around High Isle the Story Bosses have gotten progressively more difficult with invulnerable phases that do nothing to make the fight more engaging but only serve to prolong it. It's reached a point that many players can no longer defeat these Bosses and complete the zone story.
The same with World Bosses with invulnerable phases, and now Incursions, too. And the group event Boss in Silorn is ridiculously difficult for a Public Dungeon, but thankfully it is having its difficulty adjusted down to something more reasonable.
They could make everyone happy if they stop putting invulnerable phases on every Boss, and stop increasing the difficulty of these Bosses more and more with every Chapter, and fix the ones that have already been taken too far, and just implement an optional slider or debuff for those that want it.
I want my more relaxing overland story experience back.
To be fair, this is the case with almost all video games though, isn't it? Especially MMOs. New content tends to become harder with new releases, because power creep generally has to be taken into account.
Most other games have different level zones that are played through in a linear order, and the max player level is increased with new expansions to handle the higher level zones. That isn't how ESO is set up.
Good point.0 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭LootAllTheStuff wrote: »^ ???
I'm no hardcore player, but I just finished the West Weald and Scribing story lines without any difficulty. The world bosses and dolmen-equivalents are definitely a lot tougher than base game equivalents (I would not want to try and solo a mosaic right now). But just the story content is doable with attention to build and gear. I will admit, though, that having a companion helps somewhat!
Our perceptions of challenge vary, and it can be easy to assume that if we're breezing through content it's easy by definition. This is yet another reason why giving players difficulty options is a good idea. It's not just for those of us who want something more punishing, if the base challenge level is evened out, more players like TaSheen could potentially overcome the newer content.3 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just saw an interesting comment in zone chat today. It was nice to see that others enjoy the overland questing experience, too.
Edited by SilverBride on October 12, 2024 9:46PMPCNA7 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Whatever ZoS does (if indeed they do anything), I would sincerely hope it would not be to the detriment of people who want a more casual experience...
Unfortunately they have and it is.
Since around High Isle the Story Bosses have gotten progressively more difficult with invulnerable phases that do nothing to make the fight more engaging but only serve to prolong it. It's reached a point that many players can no longer defeat these Bosses and complete the zone story.
The same with World Bosses with invulnerable phases, and now Incursions, too. And the group event Boss in Silorn is ridiculously difficult for a Public Dungeon, but thankfully it is having its difficulty adjusted down to something more reasonable.
They could make everyone happy if they stop putting invulnerable phases on every Boss, and stop increasing the difficulty of these Bosses more and more with every Chapter, and fix the ones that have already been taken too far, and just implement an optional slider or debuff for those that want it.
I want my more relaxing overland story experience back.
To be fair, this is the case with almost all video games though, isn't it? Especially MMOs. New content tends to become harder with new releases, because power creep generally has to be taken into account.
Most other games have different level zones that are played through in a linear order, and the max player level is increased with new expansions to handle the higher level zones. That isn't how ESO is set up.
The trend has been away from that for some lately. I believe World of Warcraft eliminated that a while back, though I could be wrong.PC
PS4/PS51 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LootAllTheStuff wrote: »^ ???
I'm no hardcore player, but I just finished the West Weald and Scribing story lines without any difficulty. The world bosses and dolmen-equivalents are definitely a lot tougher than base game equivalents (I would not want to try and solo a mosaic right now). But just the story content is doable with attention to build and gear. I will admit, though, that having a companion helps somewhat!
Our perceptions of challenge vary, and it can be easy to assume that if we're breezing through content it's easy by definition. This is yet another reason why giving players difficulty options is a good idea. It's not just for those of us who want something more punishing, if the base challenge level is evened out, more players like TaSheen could potentially overcome the newer content.
What is trivial for some is hard for others. Too many here fail to realize that.PC
PS4/PS55 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.FlopsyPrince wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Whatever ZoS does (if indeed they do anything), I would sincerely hope it would not be to the detriment of people who want a more casual experience...
Unfortunately they have and it is.
Since around High Isle the Story Bosses have gotten progressively more difficult with invulnerable phases that do nothing to make the fight more engaging but only serve to prolong it. It's reached a point that many players can no longer defeat these Bosses and complete the zone story.
The same with World Bosses with invulnerable phases, and now Incursions, too. And the group event Boss in Silorn is ridiculously difficult for a Public Dungeon, but thankfully it is having its difficulty adjusted down to something more reasonable.
They could make everyone happy if they stop putting invulnerable phases on every Boss, and stop increasing the difficulty of these Bosses more and more with every Chapter, and fix the ones that have already been taken too far, and just implement an optional slider or debuff for those that want it.
I want my more relaxing overland story experience back.
To be fair, this is the case with almost all video games though, isn't it? Especially MMOs. New content tends to become harder with new releases, because power creep generally has to be taken into account.
Most other games have different level zones that are played through in a linear order, and the max player level is increased with new expansions to handle the higher level zones. That isn't how ESO is set up.
The trend has been away from that for some lately. I believe World of Warcraft eliminated that a while back, though I could be wrong.
I have not played retail WoW in years. That would be big news. WoW is the patriarch of leveled zones. One of the reasons to leave the game, tbh.0 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Most other games have different level zones that are played through in a linear order, and the max player level is increased with new expansions to handle the higher level zones. That isn't how ESO is set up.
The trend has been away from that for some lately. I believe World of Warcraft eliminated that a while back, though I could be wrong.
I looked this up and found conflicting information. But it doesn't really matter what WoW does anyway. What matters is what is best for ESO.PCNA0 -
LootAllTheStuff wrote: »^ ???
I'm no hardcore player, but I just finished the West Weald and Scribing story lines without any difficulty. The world bosses and dolmen-equivalents are definitely a lot tougher than base game equivalents (I would not want to try and solo a mosaic right now). But just the story content is doable with attention to build and gear. I will admit, though, that having a companion helps somewhat!
Our perceptions of challenge vary, and it can be easy to assume that if we're breezing through content it's easy by definition. This is yet another reason why giving players difficulty options is a good idea. It's not just for those of us who want something more punishing, if the base challenge level is evened out, more players like TaSheen could potentially overcome the newer content.
Partially agree but partially disagree. When I first started playing, it took a long while to reach the point where I felt comfortable tackling delve bosses or public dungeons solo. That's no longer the case. While I can see that I might not be as sensitive to differences in difficulty now as compared to then, I'm not seeing much difference for the same types of overland activity from zone to zone (with the obvious exception of Craglorn because of all the group content areas). Is it subjective? Yes. I was just trying to encourage the OP to see if they could adapt to go a little further and deeper, because they'd get more out of the game that way.
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SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LootAllTheStuff wrote: »I was just trying to encourage the OP to see if they could adapt to go a little further and deeper, because they'd get more out of the game that way.
They would get more out of the game if their goal was to go further and deeper. But some of us have the goal of a relaxing questing experience and that would be detrimental to us.PCNA2 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@LootAllTheStuff - I'm comfortable with the game the way it's been since I started playing (mid 2017). I'm old, my reflexes suck, my only internet is satellite (including of course massive ping). I'm totally uninterested in having all the story content harder to the point where it's literally painful for me to play. I don't want to "go further and deeper" - I want my game experience the way it always has been.
And no - I'm not interested in "challenge", and I'm entirely un-competitive in the extreme.Edited by TaSheen on October 13, 2024 8:47PM______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....3 -
mocap✭✭✭✭✭
✭How many more pages need to say that overland difficulty is __optional__? 240 isn't enough? Must be 480?
Like it - use it. Don't like it - don't use it.
Sounds like you just don't want (for some very twisted reasons) others to get this OPTIONAL mode.4 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭How many more pages need to say that overland difficulty is __optional__? 240 isn't enough? Must be 480?
Like it - use it. Don't like it - don't use it.
Sounds like you just don't want (for some very twisted reasons) others to get this OPTIONAL mode.
Are you pointing that at me? I'm the one always posting how anything like this needs to be OPTIONAL.... and also agreeing with those who are talking about optional sliders or whatever. I'm perfectly happy for all of you who want harder overland to get just that, as long as it's totally optional (which is starting to look like not happening considering the much harder zones since High Isle).
My post above was in reply to @LootAllTheStuff - which I just edited in, since I realize I didn't do that before....Edited by TaSheen on October 13, 2024 8:50PM______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....0 -
joergino✭✭✭✭✭We've already seen how this "optional" thing is put into the game in all the recent chapters with their beloved world bosses and even delve bosses with their wonderful immunity phases.
Not to mention the great answer to the desire of harder overland content from some people - which was instanced Bastion Nymic for everybody. 4 -
@LootAllTheStuff - I'm comfortable with the game the way it's been since I started playing (mid 2017). I'm old, my reflexes suck, my only internet is satellite (including of course massive ping). I'm totally uninterested in having all the story content harder to the point where it's literally painful for me to play. I don't want to "go further and deeper" - I want my game experience the way it always has been.
And no - I'm not interested in "challenge", and I'm entirely un-competitive in the extreme.
I think we're just misunderstanding one another? I wasn't talking about the story content being made harder, but that it didn't actually seem harder in different zones (other than group events/bosses). I'm also old and have slow reflexes. Mercifully, I don't have to deal with ping issues though - that would be unpleasant, and I sympathize with that. That said, I have had the experience of being able to change things around and do more challenging content than I could when I started. :shrug: Anyway, as long as you're still having fun, that's cool.
As more general point not really connected with the above:
Some have talked about having some kind of individual player difficulty slider. I've played PvE games with that feature, and it basically meant instancing things like health pools so that various level players could coop the same mob/boss. So that is feasible, but I'm not sure how well it would scale - that was a max of 4-player coop, not an MMO.0 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LootAllTheStuff wrote: »@LootAllTheStuff - I'm comfortable with the game the way it's been since I started playing (mid 2017). I'm old, my reflexes suck, my only internet is satellite (including of course massive ping). I'm totally uninterested in having all the story content harder to the point where it's literally painful for me to play. I don't want to "go further and deeper" - I want my game experience the way it always has been.
And no - I'm not interested in "challenge", and I'm entirely un-competitive in the extreme.
I think we're just misunderstanding one another? I wasn't talking about the story content being made harder, but that it didn't actually seem harder in different zones (other than group events/bosses). I'm also old and have slow reflexes. Mercifully, I don't have to deal with ping issues though - that would be unpleasant, and I sympathize with that. That said, I have had the experience of being able to change things around and do more challenging content than I could when I started. :shrug: Anyway, as long as you're still having fun, that's cool.
As more general point not really connected with the above:
Some have talked about having some kind of individual player difficulty slider. I've played PvE games with that feature, and it basically meant instancing things like health pools so that various level players could coop the same mob/boss. So that is feasible, but I'm not sure how well it would scale - that was a max of 4-player coop, not an MMO.
Well, the harder story content (bosses) has happened since High Isle (though N Elsweyr, Blackwood, and High Isle bosses were excruciating for me). The base game zones and earlier DLCs are fine; I don't breeze through them, but it's not as difficult as those I listed.
As for the slider thing, the one from LotRO is the one usually mentioned. I've never played that game, so no clue how it works.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....1 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just as recently as the past few pages there have been suggestions for "just a little more difficulty" across the board. So we will keep reinforcing our view that only optional is acceptable for many of us.PCNA5 -
dk_dunkirk✭✭✭✭There's a recurring ask for making a vet toggle for overland, to increase the difficulty and the rewards, but I think Fallout 76 has a better answer. In 76, some creatures randomly spawn as legendary, which means they'll drop legendary gear. They're clearly marked with a glowing aura, and are several times more powerful than the usual version.
Also, several times a year, there are events where there are special variants of common enemies, which drop special loot. For instance, soon, the "spooky" event will happen, and in addition to special construction plans and legendary drops, there's a candy that you can "trick or treat" with. It's just... fun. And isn't that supposed to be the point of a video game?
Maybe these random legendaries could drop gold plans or even gear from dungeons and trials. Maybe the variants could drop a zone daily coffer. Just spitballing. Fallout 76 has a much more interesting overland because there are completely random encounters. The enemies in ESO are always in the same spots, but randomly changing up these encounters like this could work in ESO too.
(I made a separate thread about this which was closed by a mod, and told to post it here.)2 -
Muizer✭✭✭✭✭
✭dk_dunkirk wrote: »There's a recurring ask for making a vet toggle for overland, to increase the difficulty and the rewards, but I think Fallout 76 has a better answer. In 76, some creatures randomly spawn as legendary, which means they'll drop legendary gear. They're clearly marked with a glowing aura, and are several times more powerful than the usual version.
I don't know how it's implemented in Fallout76, but if they are just spawning and the player can either decide to engage or not, well that would be nothing new. That would be like world bosses or those wandering things in High Isle (or its dlc, can't remember).
Dynamic encounters will only work if those enemies spawn and attack the player. And evidently that is something the player should be free to choose to trigger or not.Please stop making requests for game features. ZOS have enough bad ideas as it is!2 -
dk_dunkirk✭✭✭✭dk_dunkirk wrote: »There's a recurring ask for making a vet toggle for overland, to increase the difficulty and the rewards, but I think Fallout 76 has a better answer. In 76, some creatures randomly spawn as legendary, which means they'll drop legendary gear. They're clearly marked with a glowing aura, and are several times more powerful than the usual version.
I don't know how it's implemented in Fallout76, but if they are just spawning and the player can either decide to engage or not, well that would be nothing new. That would be like world bosses or those wandering things in High Isle (or its dlc, can't remember).
Dynamic encounters will only work if those enemies spawn and attack the player. And evidently that is something the player should be free to choose to trigger or not.
No, it wouldn't be like that at all. Imagine you're hoofing it overland in a zone, and you're passing group after group of 3-5 low-level enemies, and you come up on a group where one of them is glowing. Maybe the whole group is. In my mind, this kind of encounter could be just under a world boss in difficulty, with interesting rewards, but without the need to accept a quest to turn in to get a coffer. I don't know why you need them to attack to make this work. That's the point. If I'm running one of my fully-leveled and geared toons, I'd want to stop and engage with an encounter like this, pretty much whatever else I'm doing. If I'm on one of toons I'm still leveling, I'd want to run away. It should be too much for a <50 to handle.0 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭LootAllTheStuff wrote: »I'm not seeing much difference for the same types of overland activity from zone to zone (with the obvious exception of Craglorn because of all the group content areas). Is it subjective? Yes. I was just trying to encourage the OP to see if they could adapt to go a little further and deeper, because they'd get more out of the game that way.
To be honest, I'm not seeing a huge difference either, but that's exactly the point. Your perception and mine are very different from other players who might have a lot more trouble in the newer zones. We can't see it because our experience doesn't allow us to, which is why we have to trust that when someone says they're experiencing a notable increase in challenge in the newer zones, they're telling the truth. And that should be okay, because it's possible to create a system that serves everyone.1 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭dk_dunkirk wrote: »There's a recurring ask for making a vet toggle for overland, to increase the difficulty and the rewards, but I think Fallout 76 has a better answer. In 76, some creatures randomly spawn as legendary, which means they'll drop legendary gear. They're clearly marked with a glowing aura, and are several times more powerful than the usual version.
Also, several times a year, there are events where there are special variants of common enemies, which drop special loot. For instance, soon, the "spooky" event will happen, and in addition to special construction plans and legendary drops, there's a candy that you can "trick or treat" with. It's just... fun. And isn't that supposed to be the point of a video game?
Maybe these random legendaries could drop gold plans or even gear from dungeons and trials. Maybe the variants could drop a zone daily coffer. Just spitballing. Fallout 76 has a much more interesting overland because there are completely random encounters. The enemies in ESO are always in the same spots, but randomly changing up these encounters like this could work in ESO too.
(I made a separate thread about this which was closed by a mod, and told to post it here.)
This is a good idea, it sounds like it would be really fun. However, it also sounds like another great idea that could add to the overland experience while not addressing the core issue. ZOS have tried a lot of different ideas like this, and yet people still clamor for an overland challenge increase. As much as I would love to see this, I really think that starting with the fundamentals of overland is the correct thing to do, and once that is done, build on it. If ZOS can do both at once, even better.2 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭How many more pages need to say that overland difficulty is __optional__? 240 isn't enough? Must be 480?
Like it - use it. Don't like it - don't use it.
Sounds like you just don't want (for some very twisted reasons) others to get this OPTIONAL mode.
Are you pointing that at me? I'm the one always posting how anything like this needs to be OPTIONAL...
I think it might have been directed at ZOS. Seems like they're saying "how many pages does it take to make you understand that people want an optional change? You're trying all of these other ideas which don't solve the problem and here we are".1 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭How many more pages need to say that overland difficulty is __optional__? 240 isn't enough? Must be 480?
Like it - use it. Don't like it - don't use it.
Sounds like you just don't want (for some very twisted reasons) others to get this OPTIONAL mode.
Are you pointing that at me? I'm the one always posting how anything like this needs to be OPTIONAL...
I think it might have been directed at ZOS. Seems like they're saying "how many pages does it take to make you understand that people want an optional change? You're trying all of these other ideas which don't solve the problem and here we are".
Definitely not aimed at zos to me but not to TaSheen either. Some people just spamming same thing over and over to any new poster just scaring players off, I'm knowing that pretty well because the reason two of my mates won't ever leave another word in this thread due to all off-topic going there.
Zos are already long informed about players not willing to be subjected to a blanket change again (like one Tam).0 -
Muizer✭✭✭✭✭
✭dk_dunkirk wrote: »I don't know why you need them to attack to make this work.
If existing encounters are made harder to the extent casual players need to avoid them, that will interfere with the casual experience, whether it's questing or gathering resources.
If they are inserted as new encounters in out of the way places ....... well that's basically reinventing world bosses.
The only alternative I see would be to spawn new encounters in response to the presence of players who choose to have them, but then the mobs should engage the player specifically, and not interfere with passers-by (unless they choose to get involved).
You're not wrong to incorporate the encounter 'layout' though. It's the reason why a player-side debuff (slider) can't be a 'flat' one. A development challenge that tends to get overlooked IMHO.
Edited by Muizer on October 14, 2024 3:41PMPlease stop making requests for game features. ZOS have enough bad ideas as it is!1 -
Deserrick✭✭✭The difficulty slider should go both ways, like in the single player games, to correct some of the overtuning that has already been brought up.2