Overland Content Feedback Thread

TaSheen · August 15

CP5 wrote: »

What does it matter what other people get? Do the players who are doing overland as is actually care what other people get? Would someone who only casually plays ESO (which no one on the forums is a casual player, being here is an act of commitment to the game much higher than many players will ever strive for) even care about what their own character has?

Eh, I do care what others who aren't happy get - because those who aren't happy, and have no belief they'll ever BE happy in the game if overland doesn't get a difficulty boost of some sort, won't stay in the game (and I'm aware a lot have left already) and so the game itself will have a shorter life. I'm really happy here, I want to BE happy here as long as possible - and if TES VI EVER releases, no I will not leave ESO in the dust, I'll just add TES VI to my "list" - I'm already playing Skyrim and Oblivion (well.... I WILL be once I get new installs set up on this new machine, just haven't had time yet; too many doctors' appts for husband....) alongside ESO, and that's not going to change.

And I do care in some ways what my girls have (as in decent though not remarkable gear, and figuring out cp and so on so they can manage to kill whatever they have to outside of story quest bosses).

All I want is for everyone to have an optimal experience in the game, because that means the game will thrive. I don't want to wind up without an overland I can play, but if that's what happens, well, I'll figure something out. Unlike some, I'm not totally inflexible....

SilverBride · August 15

CP5 wrote: »

What does it matter what other people get? Do the players who are doing overland as is actually care what other people get? Would someone who only casually plays ESO (which no one on the forums is a casual player, being here is an act of commitment to the game much higher than many players will ever strive for) even care about what their own character has?

Discussing this in a circle doesn't accomplish much, but these points are likely things ZOS is mulling over, and I can imagine that some of them are like you in expressing these concerns, but please elaborate on why you feel that if this sort of reward was given, how would it negatively impact people who wouldn't use the harder difficulty?

It matters because the reason given for the past 223 pages and 6692 posts has been for immersion. Giving increased rewards could potentially turn overland into an easy place for those players to farm veteran gear that was never meant to be for such a purpose.

If the true reason for wanting diffiuclty is immersion then there is NO need for better rewards.

CP5 · August 15

If I want overland gear, I'll farm normal overland and upgrade it. Upgrading things to purple is nothing for a player who has done a lot of vet content, and exp for players around my level is next to worthless. Those things, the better quality gear and increased exp rate allow people who are new and learning to get better quality gear to match their intent and to get closer to the same amount of exp per hour as they would otherwise do for doing normal content.

Increased exp compensates for the increased time to kill.

Higher quality gear drops is the primary reward and holds the most value to newer players.

If overland gear is so valuable and powerful, I'd have an easier time just collecting it on normal and upgrading it, for sale or use.

Do those points make sense? I don't care about the rewards, as I said for me, they're irrelevant, but those three points undermine what seems to be one of your biggest points against the concept.

spartaxoxo · August 15

Increased EXP and Gold would be both be necessary at the very least, so that players aren't punished for using any vet option.

For example (and these numbers are made up to illustrate the point) in 1 minutes on normal I can kill 2 wolves for a total of 10 coin and 20 exp. But on vet I can only kill 1. Then in that 1 minute I would get 5 coin and 10 exp. But if they were under a modifier then I could get the same 10 coin and 20 exp.

Elsonso · August 15

SilverBride wrote: »

It has been the same for Public Dungeons. The group event boss in the Silorn Public Dungeon is so difficult that players are having a hard time finding anyone who will group for it.

Every World Boss and Story Boss and and now Public Dungeon group event Boss has gotten progressively more difficult, starting with High Isle. Unless we tell them that this is NOT what anyone wants I'm afraid this trend will keep going.

I figure that ZOS can see whether players are completing the content, or trying and failing, as well as how often. If the numbers trend down enough, you can bet they will take action.

SilverBride · August 16

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Increased EXP and Gold would be both be necessary at the very least, so that players aren't punished for using any vet option.

For example (and these numbers are made up to illustrate the point) in 1 minutes on normal I can kill 2 wolves for a total of 10 coin and 20 exp. But on vet I can only kill 1. Then in that 1 minute I would get 5 coin and 10 exp. But if they were under a modifier then I could get the same 10 coin and 20 exp.

How can they be punished for using something they asked for?

There is very little chance of a veteran overland anyway, so it's a moot point.

spartaxoxo · August 16

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Increased EXP and Gold would be both be necessary at the very least, so that players aren't punished for using any vet option.

For example (and these numbers are made up to illustrate the point) in 1 minutes on normal I can kill 2 wolves for a total of 10 coin and 20 exp. But on vet I can only kill 1. Then in that 1 minute I would get 5 coin and 10 exp. But if they were under a modifier then I could get the same 10 coin and 20 exp.

How can they be punished for using something they asked for?

There is very little chance of a veteran overland anyway, so it's a moot point.

By placing unnecessary penalties for using it.

SilverBride · August 16

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

How can they be punished for using something they asked for?

By placing unnecessary penalties for using it.

It's not a penalty to get something a player asked for... increased difficulty. It is wrong however to reward those players with better rewards just for getting something they asked for.

CP5 · August 16

If a player wants to do more difficult content, should they be rewarded less gold and exp because fights took longer?

Also, "It is wrong however to reward players with better rewards just for getting something they asked for." They still need to actually do the content. Sort of like asking ZOS to make changes to an upcoming set on PTS, the set getting changes (a good joke, I know) and claiming the set was given to them, when in reality they still need to actually do the content.

Please elaborate on your thoughts that, if a player is doing overland content at a higher difficulty, why they should then fall behind other players who are doing the same content on normal because combat encounters take longer and thus increase the time between combat rewards?

SilverBride · August 16

CP5 wrote: »

If a player wants to do more difficult content, should they be rewarded less gold and exp because fights took longer?

Also, "It is wrong however to reward players with better rewards just for getting something they asked for." They still need to actually do the content. Sort of like asking ZOS to make changes to an upcoming set on PTS, the set getting changes (a good joke, I know) and claiming the set was given to them, when in reality they still need to actually do the content.

Please elaborate on your thoughts that, if a player is doing overland content at a higher difficulty, why they should then fall behind other players who are doing the same content on normal because combat encounters take longer and thus increase the time between combat rewards?

I do not support any difficulty options if there are increased rewards for it. That's being doubly rewarded and is not fair to the rest of the playerbase.

SilverBride · August 16

TaSheen wrote: »

Eh, I do care what others who aren't happy get - because those who aren't happy, and have no belief they'll ever BE happy in the game if overland doesn't get a difficulty boost of some sort, won't stay in the game (and I'm aware a lot have left already) and so the game itself will have a shorter life.

Overland has been this difficulty since One Tamriel. If there was going to be a mass exodus of players leaving because they think overland is too easy it would have happened then with those changes... they would not have waited 8 years to all decide to leave now.

TaSheen · August 16

*sigh* Of course they would have. It has taken this long for most of them to realize that they are very accomplished gamers, and for them to get heartily sick and tired of the fact that ZOS (apparently) has zero interest in making optional changes to overland to accommodate them, and other players like them. Though.... considering that ZOS has back-burnered pvp for so long, I'm not sure I think they're really surprised - perhaps just still shocked that the devs don't care about their concerns.

A LOT of them don't play the game at all. They come to the forums to see if anything might be changing, and they post in this thread to reiterate that while they love ESO/TES, they feel there's no fun to be had for players like them.

Most gamers are not like me - I live in the TES universe, and I don't look at other games. I don't have any interests afield when it comes to games. There's always something else for more "normal" gamers to play - but there are a lot of people who would make ESO their game of choice if it offered something it does not now: an optional harder overland - the WHOLE overland, not just being shoehorned into things like Bastion Nymic and IA.

In fact.... there are a LOT more unhappy gamers posting in this thread who are in favor of optional harder overland than there are people who are happy with the status quo.... I'm not going to count, I have better things to do. But there aren't very many names recurring who don't want ANY changes than there are that want something meatier to chew on.

Personally, I'm at this point good with whatever ZOS chooses to do (or not do, depending) - I don't care at this point if they make overland 10 times harder because I will still have things to do. They've already made overland enough harder that it's not much fun exploring in the later zones, and that seems to be the current direction, not to mention the much harder story quest bosses.

There's still a lot of quests to follow though, most of which don't have "uber" bosses. So yeah. I'm quite willing to accept that I'm a minority - play what I can, love the world for what it is, and leave it at that. Again, I'M flexible.

SilverBride · August 16

There is no mass exodus of players leaving because they think overland is too easy. Players come and go all the time in MMOs for various reasons. There are still a LOT of players that are actively playing and happy with the game as it is. It is not going to fail if there is not a difficulty option for overland.

TaSheen · August 16

And there's no factual evidence of that. Or the opposite.

spartaxoxo · August 16

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

How can they be punished for using something they asked for?

By placing unnecessary penalties for using it.

It's not a penalty to get something a player asked for... increased difficulty. It is wrong however to reward those players with better rewards just for getting something they asked for.

It is a penalty using it results in negative rewards or other such things. Just because the feature was requested does not mean it cannot be implemented poorly.

How is ensuring that a player who uses a feature gets the same exp and coin as someone who isn't using it, giving out "double rewards."

Why should players be punished for using a feature?

spartaxoxo · August 16

TaSheen wrote: »

And there's no factual evidence of that. Or the opposite.

Steam Charts shows the game is down players. We can't know for sure if the other platforms are the same, but we can say with certainty that a lot of people are leaving on Steam.

Some of the most commonly cited reasons are difficulty and lack of PvP content. Not a surprise then that last quarterly update and the upcoming quarterly update attempts to address those complaints.

It doesn't mean the game will collapse overnight if these things aren't addressed. But ZOS can plainly see that these are things that are affecting a large portion of their playerbase and therefore should be addressed.

SilverBride · August 16

I do not consider Steam charts to be an accurate indicator. They do not take into account Consoles or the many PC players that do not use Steam. Nor do they consider that some players have stopped using Steam and just launch directly on the PC now.

And where is it documented that these players cited difficulty as the reason they left? Does Steam question them and document their reasons?

I believe that it is a minority rather than a large portion of the playerbase that want more difficulty in overland. What I recently observed in West Weald zone chat when a player was trying to get others to complain about it with them and they were just ignored until they finally stopped, tells me a lot.

spartaxoxo · August 16

Steam Charts are an accurate indicator of what is happening on Steam.

The people who quit leave comments about why they are quitting, in comments, on social media, on the forums. And there is a ton of those comments that explicitly cite PvP and lack of difficulty as the reason.

Minority doesn't mean small. It is a large portion and a minority.

If 55% of the playerbase likes it and 45% doesn't, that's both the minority dislike it and a large portion. Those numbers are just to illustrate the point.

Your West Weald example is selection bias.

Edit: It's selection bias because the user was asking in West Weald. So, it was only users who paid full price for earlier access than plus allows being asked. And the people being asked were the ones actively using overland in particular. It was not even asked in the trial or at Eyevea. That's what makes an example of selection bias, I don't mean you're making a biased selection.

SilverBride · August 16

There is nothing biased about it, and the fact remains that this player unsuccessfully tried to get others to complain with them but no one played along with it.

I think it's time to just agree to disagree because my opinion is not going to change.

spartaxoxo · August 16

Why would people who paid 40 bucks minimum to play stories agree that playing stories is boring? Why would that be representative of the opinions of people unwilling to spend that much money on it? I mean you're entitled to your opinion, but for me, I'd expect that people who paid 40 bucks for something do so mostly because they like it.

I definitely agree to strongly disagree on that one. I think West Weald, by virtue of being the chapter, is the worst possible zone to ask that question. And the timing is also bad, the chapter event and sale hasn't even happened yet.

colossalvoids · August 16

I mean, it does make sense that WW zone chat didn't responded to anything in any way when arguing that the charts (the biggest publicly open source) showing the decline and people openly showing their distaste of what's direction the game went ultimately in different social madia channels be it big discords or same steam pages for events or discussion board there.

Everyone can believe what they want to, use anecdotes as their reference points but that's ultimately doesn't matter when company gets less engagement on their "biggest year celebration". They would do some thing about it from their perspective, but you already don't like their moves with PD's or WB's and still trying to argue with people who actually propose solutions not involving your part of content to be changed. It would continue so, one same exact game for all and you would need to adapt to the new ideas whilst we not getting anything at the same exact time. Does it helps anyone really in the end?

disky · August 16

SilverBride wrote: »

I seriously doubt that players would go back and just kill trash mobs once the story has been completed. These zones would be dead.

This is actually something that I would like to see addressed in addition to a challenge option. I should say that I disagree - I enjoy simply existing in a lot of the zones. I like to log on and walk or slowly ride around, just to take it in. But I think it could be really nice to be surprised while I'm there, and I believe more dynamic content could really add a lot of life.

ZOS' vignettes idea from High Isle, in which you'd come across a scene playing out in the environment featuring one or two NPCs, was interesting but not dynamic enough and eventually became repetitive. I think more might be nice, but I'd like to see the expansion of the feature into combat encounters that could spice things up in any zone. It could draw from the zone's enemy lists and create stationary or roaming encounters which players can interact with, possibly for a unique reward. Even better, they could be tied to a dynamic/generative quest system which provides a goal/reward for defeating them.

Again, this would come in addition to a challenge system, but I think it would go a long way to livening up a "dead" zone.

disky · August 16

SilverBride wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

If a player wants to do more difficult content, should they be rewarded less gold and exp because fights took longer?

Also, "It is wrong however to reward players with better rewards just for getting something they asked for." They still need to actually do the content. Sort of like asking ZOS to make changes to an upcoming set on PTS, the set getting changes (a good joke, I know) and claiming the set was given to them, when in reality they still need to actually do the content.

Please elaborate on your thoughts that, if a player is doing overland content at a higher difficulty, why they should then fall behind other players who are doing the same content on normal because combat encounters take longer and thus increase the time between combat rewards?

I do not support any difficulty options if there are increased rewards for it. That's being doubly rewarded and is not fair to the rest of the playerbase.

I don't care about rewards, I simply want to have fun. However, I truly don't think it's that big of a deal if players get Epic-quality gear instead of Rare, because it's so easy to upgrade anyway. Same with gold - no one has ever had their mind blown by overland gold gains. I think it's probably best to let people feel like they're getting something for turning things up a notch rather than shutting them down and tanking the feature altogether.

colossalvoids · August 16

disky wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

If a player wants to do more difficult content, should they be rewarded less gold and exp because fights took longer?

Also, "It is wrong however to reward players with better rewards just for getting something they asked for." They still need to actually do the content. Sort of like asking ZOS to make changes to an upcoming set on PTS, the set getting changes (a good joke, I know) and claiming the set was given to them, when in reality they still need to actually do the content.

Please elaborate on your thoughts that, if a player is doing overland content at a higher difficulty, why they should then fall behind other players who are doing the same content on normal because combat encounters take longer and thus increase the time between combat rewards?

I do not support any difficulty options if there are increased rewards for it. That's being doubly rewarded and is not fair to the rest of the playerbase.

I don't care about rewards, I simply want to have fun. However, I truly don't think it's that big of a deal if players get Epic-quality gear instead of Rare, because it's so easy to upgrade anyway. Same with gold - no one has ever had their mind blown by overland gold gains. I think it's probably best to let people feel like they're getting something for turning things up a notch rather than shutting them down and tanking the feature altogether.

This thinking is probably based on a notion that it's what players are asking for here, being immersed etc. so an ask for a reward for the effort spent looks iffy. This ignores game design and how rewards are structured to reward time and effort depending on difficulty levels. As previously said by another user it's at the very least as simple as two times more exp and gold for 2 times the "time to kill" we're getting potentially or simply following a pattern we already have with difficulty and rewards to it like blue-green to purple drops.

The thing ignored also is that difficult overland option isn't made for a bunch of forum users to stop complaining, if it was to be implemented it would be a game system which would obey the game's ruleset and overall design structure. There should be incentives for new players, existing ones and for ones who they potentially want to return. They would also want existing non vet players to at least try it out same as with dungeons, pvp and trials, as a lot of people aren't even aware it's something they might potentially like - me being perfect example of it as a single player andy who bought eso to read new lore books and got baited into pvp and pve "endgame" by events, skins to hide vamp etc. and I loved it, thanks to that structure.

disky · August 16

colossalvoids wrote: »

disky wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

If a player wants to do more difficult content, should they be rewarded less gold and exp because fights took longer?

Also, "It is wrong however to reward players with better rewards just for getting something they asked for." They still need to actually do the content. Sort of like asking ZOS to make changes to an upcoming set on PTS, the set getting changes (a good joke, I know) and claiming the set was given to them, when in reality they still need to actually do the content.

Please elaborate on your thoughts that, if a player is doing overland content at a higher difficulty, why they should then fall behind other players who are doing the same content on normal because combat encounters take longer and thus increase the time between combat rewards?

I do not support any difficulty options if there are increased rewards for it. That's being doubly rewarded and is not fair to the rest of the playerbase.

I don't care about rewards, I simply want to have fun. However, I truly don't think it's that big of a deal if players get Epic-quality gear instead of Rare, because it's so easy to upgrade anyway. Same with gold - no one has ever had their mind blown by overland gold gains. I think it's probably best to let people feel like they're getting something for turning things up a notch rather than shutting them down and tanking the feature altogether.

This thinking is probably based on a notion that it's what players are asking for here, being immersed etc. so an ask for a reward for the effort spent looks iffy. This ignores game design and how rewards are structured to reward time and effort depending on difficulty levels. As previously said by another user it's at the very least as simple as two times more exp and gold for 2 times the "time to kill" we're getting potentially or simply following a pattern we already have with difficulty and rewards to it like blue-green to purple drops.

The thing ignored also is that difficult overland option isn't made for a bunch of forum users to stop complaining, if it was to be implemented it would be a game system which would obey the game's ruleset and overall design structure. There should be incentives for new players, existing ones and for ones who they potentially want to return. They would also want existing non vet players to at least try it out same as with dungeons, pvp and trials, as a lot of people aren't even aware it's something they might potentially like - me being perfect example of it as a single player andy who bought eso to read new lore books and got baited into pvp and pve "endgame" by events, skins to hide vamp etc. and I loved it, thanks to that structure.

Understandable, and if you looked back far enough, you would see that I campaigned against rewards for increased challenge. However, do we honestly believe that it's really that big of a deal to get a slightly better bit of gear, slightly more gold and/or slightly more experience? I don't think that it is. But I do think that some people will have a problem with it and that could act as a speedbump to getting the feature implemented.

Possibly the best idea would be to start with no rewards, keep the feature in live, public testing for some time, and then when people are comfortable with it, add some minor reward. Again, it makes no difference to me whatsoever but obviously there are people who expect this sort of thing.

spartaxoxo · August 16

disky wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

disky wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

If a player wants to do more difficult content, should they be rewarded less gold and exp because fights took longer?

Also, "It is wrong however to reward players with better rewards just for getting something they asked for." They still need to actually do the content. Sort of like asking ZOS to make changes to an upcoming set on PTS, the set getting changes (a good joke, I know) and claiming the set was given to them, when in reality they still need to actually do the content.

Please elaborate on your thoughts that, if a player is doing overland content at a higher difficulty, why they should then fall behind other players who are doing the same content on normal because combat encounters take longer and thus increase the time between combat rewards?

I do not support any difficulty options if there are increased rewards for it. That's being doubly rewarded and is not fair to the rest of the playerbase.

I don't care about rewards, I simply want to have fun. However, I truly don't think it's that big of a deal if players get Epic-quality gear instead of Rare, because it's so easy to upgrade anyway. Same with gold - no one has ever had their mind blown by overland gold gains. I think it's probably best to let people feel like they're getting something for turning things up a notch rather than shutting them down and tanking the feature altogether.

This thinking is probably based on a notion that it's what players are asking for here, being immersed etc. so an ask for a reward for the effort spent looks iffy. This ignores game design and how rewards are structured to reward time and effort depending on difficulty levels. As previously said by another user it's at the very least as simple as two times more exp and gold for 2 times the "time to kill" we're getting potentially or simply following a pattern we already have with difficulty and rewards to it like blue-green to purple drops.

The thing ignored also is that difficult overland option isn't made for a bunch of forum users to stop complaining, if it was to be implemented it would be a game system which would obey the game's ruleset and overall design structure. There should be incentives for new players, existing ones and for ones who they potentially want to return. They would also want existing non vet players to at least try it out same as with dungeons, pvp and trials, as a lot of people aren't even aware it's something they might potentially like - me being perfect example of it as a single player andy who bought eso to read new lore books and got baited into pvp and pve "endgame" by events, skins to hide vamp etc. and I loved it, thanks to that structure.

Understandable, and if you looked back far enough, you would see that I campaigned against rewards for increased challenge. However, do we honestly believe that it's really that big of a deal to get a slightly better bit of gear, slightly more gold and/or slightly more experience? I don't think that it is. But I do think that some people will have a problem with it and that could act as a speedbump to getting the feature implemented.

Possibly the best idea would be to start with no rewards, keep the feature in live, public testing for some time, and then when people are comfortable with it, add some minor reward. Again, it makes no difference to me whatsoever but obviously there are people who expect this sort of thing.

I mean if it went live without increased exp and gold gain, it would be a punishment to use it. Because enemies would take longer to kill but give the same exp. I really don't think it should matter if some people have an issue with vet players get the same rewards as they do.

disky · August 16

spartaxoxo wrote: »

disky wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

disky wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

If a player wants to do more difficult content, should they be rewarded less gold and exp because fights took longer?

Also, "It is wrong however to reward players with better rewards just for getting something they asked for." They still need to actually do the content. Sort of like asking ZOS to make changes to an upcoming set on PTS, the set getting changes (a good joke, I know) and claiming the set was given to them, when in reality they still need to actually do the content.

Please elaborate on your thoughts that, if a player is doing overland content at a higher difficulty, why they should then fall behind other players who are doing the same content on normal because combat encounters take longer and thus increase the time between combat rewards?

I do not support any difficulty options if there are increased rewards for it. That's being doubly rewarded and is not fair to the rest of the playerbase.

I don't care about rewards, I simply want to have fun. However, I truly don't think it's that big of a deal if players get Epic-quality gear instead of Rare, because it's so easy to upgrade anyway. Same with gold - no one has ever had their mind blown by overland gold gains. I think it's probably best to let people feel like they're getting something for turning things up a notch rather than shutting them down and tanking the feature altogether.

This thinking is probably based on a notion that it's what players are asking for here, being immersed etc. so an ask for a reward for the effort spent looks iffy. This ignores game design and how rewards are structured to reward time and effort depending on difficulty levels. As previously said by another user it's at the very least as simple as two times more exp and gold for 2 times the "time to kill" we're getting potentially or simply following a pattern we already have with difficulty and rewards to it like blue-green to purple drops.

The thing ignored also is that difficult overland option isn't made for a bunch of forum users to stop complaining, if it was to be implemented it would be a game system which would obey the game's ruleset and overall design structure. There should be incentives for new players, existing ones and for ones who they potentially want to return. They would also want existing non vet players to at least try it out same as with dungeons, pvp and trials, as a lot of people aren't even aware it's something they might potentially like - me being perfect example of it as a single player andy who bought eso to read new lore books and got baited into pvp and pve "endgame" by events, skins to hide vamp etc. and I loved it, thanks to that structure.

Understandable, and if you looked back far enough, you would see that I campaigned against rewards for increased challenge. However, do we honestly believe that it's really that big of a deal to get a slightly better bit of gear, slightly more gold and/or slightly more experience? I don't think that it is. But I do think that some people will have a problem with it and that could act as a speedbump to getting the feature implemented.

Possibly the best idea would be to start with no rewards, keep the feature in live, public testing for some time, and then when people are comfortable with it, add some minor reward. Again, it makes no difference to me whatsoever but obviously there are people who expect this sort of thing.

I mean if it went live without increased exp and gold gain, it would be a punishment to use it. Because enemies would take longer to kill but give the same exp. I really don't think it should matter if some people have an issue with vet players get the same rewards as they do.

I don't think it could be considered a punishment if it's deliberately enabled by the player, but I do think that many people would avoid it if there were no compensation involved. Which is why I think the best method is to start with no reward in a testing phase and then provide something once it's understood not to be a threat to anyone who doesn't want to increase challenge. Softening the landing and making it palatable to everyone is important if you want to avoid backlash. Obviously some players are more sensitive to this idea than others, and those people pay.

Alternatively, put it up on PTS for a while and let people get used to the idea over there before going live.

spartaxoxo · August 16

disky wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

disky wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

disky wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

If a player wants to do more difficult content, should they be rewarded less gold and exp because fights took longer?

Also, "It is wrong however to reward players with better rewards just for getting something they asked for." They still need to actually do the content. Sort of like asking ZOS to make changes to an upcoming set on PTS, the set getting changes (a good joke, I know) and claiming the set was given to them, when in reality they still need to actually do the content.

Please elaborate on your thoughts that, if a player is doing overland content at a higher difficulty, why they should then fall behind other players who are doing the same content on normal because combat encounters take longer and thus increase the time between combat rewards?

I do not support any difficulty options if there are increased rewards for it. That's being doubly rewarded and is not fair to the rest of the playerbase.

I don't care about rewards, I simply want to have fun. However, I truly don't think it's that big of a deal if players get Epic-quality gear instead of Rare, because it's so easy to upgrade anyway. Same with gold - no one has ever had their mind blown by overland gold gains. I think it's probably best to let people feel like they're getting something for turning things up a notch rather than shutting them down and tanking the feature altogether.

This thinking is probably based on a notion that it's what players are asking for here, being immersed etc. so an ask for a reward for the effort spent looks iffy. This ignores game design and how rewards are structured to reward time and effort depending on difficulty levels. As previously said by another user it's at the very least as simple as two times more exp and gold for 2 times the "time to kill" we're getting potentially or simply following a pattern we already have with difficulty and rewards to it like blue-green to purple drops.

The thing ignored also is that difficult overland option isn't made for a bunch of forum users to stop complaining, if it was to be implemented it would be a game system which would obey the game's ruleset and overall design structure. There should be incentives for new players, existing ones and for ones who they potentially want to return. They would also want existing non vet players to at least try it out same as with dungeons, pvp and trials, as a lot of people aren't even aware it's something they might potentially like - me being perfect example of it as a single player andy who bought eso to read new lore books and got baited into pvp and pve "endgame" by events, skins to hide vamp etc. and I loved it, thanks to that structure.

Understandable, and if you looked back far enough, you would see that I campaigned against rewards for increased challenge. However, do we honestly believe that it's really that big of a deal to get a slightly better bit of gear, slightly more gold and/or slightly more experience? I don't think that it is. But I do think that some people will have a problem with it and that could act as a speedbump to getting the feature implemented.

Possibly the best idea would be to start with no rewards, keep the feature in live, public testing for some time, and then when people are comfortable with it, add some minor reward. Again, it makes no difference to me whatsoever but obviously there are people who expect this sort of thing.

I mean if it went live without increased exp and gold gain, it would be a punishment to use it. Because enemies would take longer to kill but give the same exp. I really don't think it should matter if some people have an issue with vet players get the same rewards as they do.

I don't think it could be considered a punishment if it's deliberately enabled by the player, but I do think that many people would avoid it if there were no compensation involved

Yeah, it can. How else would someone be punished for using a feature?

Edit

disky wrote: »

Alternatively, put it up on PTS for a while and let people get used to the idea over there before going live.

Yes, absolutely. So people can see the modifier is only bringing vet players into parity with normal mode and not actually giving them extra stuff.

colossalvoids · August 16

disky wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

disky wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

If a player wants to do more difficult content, should they be rewarded less gold and exp because fights took longer?

Also, "It is wrong however to reward players with better rewards just for getting something they asked for." They still need to actually do the content. Sort of like asking ZOS to make changes to an upcoming set on PTS, the set getting changes (a good joke, I know) and claiming the set was given to them, when in reality they still need to actually do the content.

Please elaborate on your thoughts that, if a player is doing overland content at a higher difficulty, why they should then fall behind other players who are doing the same content on normal because combat encounters take longer and thus increase the time between combat rewards?

I do not support any difficulty options if there are increased rewards for it. That's being doubly rewarded and is not fair to the rest of the playerbase.

I don't care about rewards, I simply want to have fun. However, I truly don't think it's that big of a deal if players get Epic-quality gear instead of Rare, because it's so easy to upgrade anyway. Same with gold - no one has ever had their mind blown by overland gold gains. I think it's probably best to let people feel like they're getting something for turning things up a notch rather than shutting them down and tanking the feature altogether.

This thinking is probably based on a notion that it's what players are asking for here, being immersed etc. so an ask for a reward for the effort spent looks iffy. This ignores game design and how rewards are structured to reward time and effort depending on difficulty levels. As previously said by another user it's at the very least as simple as two times more exp and gold for 2 times the "time to kill" we're getting potentially or simply following a pattern we already have with difficulty and rewards to it like blue-green to purple drops.

The thing ignored also is that difficult overland option isn't made for a bunch of forum users to stop complaining, if it was to be implemented it would be a game system which would obey the game's ruleset and overall design structure. There should be incentives for new players, existing ones and for ones who they potentially want to return. They would also want existing non vet players to at least try it out same as with dungeons, pvp and trials, as a lot of people aren't even aware it's something they might potentially like - me being perfect example of it as a single player andy who bought eso to read new lore books and got baited into pvp and pve "endgame" by events, skins to hide vamp etc. and I loved it, thanks to that structure.

Understandable, and if you looked back far enough, you would see that I campaigned against rewards for increased challenge. However, do we honestly believe that it's really that big of a deal to get a slightly better bit of gear, slightly more gold and/or slightly more experience? I don't think that it is. But I do think that some people will have a problem with it and that could act as a speedbump to getting the feature implemented.

Possibly the best idea would be to start with no rewards, keep the feature in live, public testing for some time, and then when people are comfortable with it, add some minor reward. Again, it makes no difference to me whatsoever but obviously there are people who expect this sort of thing.

I honestly don't think our opinion about rewards really matters to them as they already have a structure they're building upon and as we know they're not really keen on doing something new or much different, especially for no reason. What I personally want from it is ability to feel like I'm playing TES game outside of zones like IC or Cyro, but some other people just want increased difficulty for the sake of it and surely would want a "compensation" for their time (like a difficulty progression in any game really works?), it also makes sense for a new player deciding on taking a challenge with better gold drops to repair gear and more experience to level up more or less with same pace as people in a current one.

disky · August 16

spartaxoxo wrote: »

disky wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

disky wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

disky wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

If a player wants to do more difficult content, should they be rewarded less gold and exp because fights took longer?

Also, "It is wrong however to reward players with better rewards just for getting something they asked for." They still need to actually do the content. Sort of like asking ZOS to make changes to an upcoming set on PTS, the set getting changes (a good joke, I know) and claiming the set was given to them, when in reality they still need to actually do the content.

Please elaborate on your thoughts that, if a player is doing overland content at a higher difficulty, why they should then fall behind other players who are doing the same content on normal because combat encounters take longer and thus increase the time between combat rewards?

I do not support any difficulty options if there are increased rewards for it. That's being doubly rewarded and is not fair to the rest of the playerbase.

I don't care about rewards, I simply want to have fun. However, I truly don't think it's that big of a deal if players get Epic-quality gear instead of Rare, because it's so easy to upgrade anyway. Same with gold - no one has ever had their mind blown by overland gold gains. I think it's probably best to let people feel like they're getting something for turning things up a notch rather than shutting them down and tanking the feature altogether.

This thinking is probably based on a notion that it's what players are asking for here, being immersed etc. so an ask for a reward for the effort spent looks iffy. This ignores game design and how rewards are structured to reward time and effort depending on difficulty levels. As previously said by another user it's at the very least as simple as two times more exp and gold for 2 times the "time to kill" we're getting potentially or simply following a pattern we already have with difficulty and rewards to it like blue-green to purple drops.

The thing ignored also is that difficult overland option isn't made for a bunch of forum users to stop complaining, if it was to be implemented it would be a game system which would obey the game's ruleset and overall design structure. There should be incentives for new players, existing ones and for ones who they potentially want to return. They would also want existing non vet players to at least try it out same as with dungeons, pvp and trials, as a lot of people aren't even aware it's something they might potentially like - me being perfect example of it as a single player andy who bought eso to read new lore books and got baited into pvp and pve "endgame" by events, skins to hide vamp etc. and I loved it, thanks to that structure.

Understandable, and if you looked back far enough, you would see that I campaigned against rewards for increased challenge. However, do we honestly believe that it's really that big of a deal to get a slightly better bit of gear, slightly more gold and/or slightly more experience? I don't think that it is. But I do think that some people will have a problem with it and that could act as a speedbump to getting the feature implemented.

Possibly the best idea would be to start with no rewards, keep the feature in live, public testing for some time, and then when people are comfortable with it, add some minor reward. Again, it makes no difference to me whatsoever but obviously there are people who expect this sort of thing.

I mean if it went live without increased exp and gold gain, it would be a punishment to use it. Because enemies would take longer to kill but give the same exp. I really don't think it should matter if some people have an issue with vet players get the same rewards as they do.

I don't think it could be considered a punishment if it's deliberately enabled by the player, but I do think that many people would avoid it if there were no compensation involved

Yeah, it can. How else would someone be punished for using a feature?

Because it's something we asked for and wanted. I will take this feature however I can get it because for me, it's not about compensation, it's about fun. Overland isn't fun and more challenge would make it more fun. Any additional reward that comes with it is ancillary.