Overland Content Feedback Thread

Parasaurolophus

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

And we don't know the whole picture.

But we do know the devs flat out stated they changed the game to make it easier.

This has little to do with the statement that gold and silver were more difficult. Possibly, but I really don't remember overland ever causing me problems other than Craglorn.

spartaxoxo

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

And we don't know the whole picture.

But we do know the devs flat out stated they changed the game to make it easier.

This has little to do with the statement that gold and silver were more difficult. Possibly, but I really don't remember overland ever causing me problems other than Craglorn.

It does. They were directly speaking about Caldwell silver and gold.

Parasaurolophus

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

And we don't know the whole picture.

But we do know the devs flat out stated they changed the game to make it easier.

This has little to do with the statement that gold and silver were more difficult. Possibly, but I really don't remember overland ever causing me problems other than Craglorn.

It does. They were directly speaking about Caldwell silver and gold.

Meaning that mobs now just dont have a level. Of course, this made them easier. And the player no longer needs to progress in order to explore Tamriel.
The only locations where the mobs were really noticeably nerfed were the IC and Craglorn.

SilverBride

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

The problem with extreme easy and biring overland content is the following: people dislikesd cadwells silver and gold because it was to hard to do it again after they did it once. For the majority.
Then they felt released and happy that they experienced that hell of a ride.

When they did it the first time the majority of people enjoyed the hard content.

That is the opposite of what Rich Lambert stated. He said that 2/3 of the game (Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold) were never played because people just didn't want difficulty in the story. This still holds true today for the majority.

From my own experience I completed it on one character but hated it so much I never did it again. I didn't feel any sense of release or happiness.

This despite the fact that the difficult overland never existed. Mobs of your level are always the same in strength. You were only required to raise your level in time. And the difference between the levels was very big. Literally, mobs 3-4 levels higher were already a big problem. So the increase in difficulty was steep, but linear. Yes, I understand how you cited an old post by one player complaining about not being able to complete some delves. But this is just one example. And we don't know the whole picture. But I'm willing to bet that most casual gamers just couldn't match the level, which made the game too difficult for them. I myself, when doing alliance quests, often stopped to farm experience, because I didn’t have enough for a comfortable game further.

Veteran overland zones did exist and they were difficult for a lot of players. It's time we agree to disagree.

spartaxoxo

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

And we don't know the whole picture.

But we do know the devs flat out stated they changed the game to make it easier.

This has little to do with the statement that gold and silver were more difficult. Possibly, but I really don't remember overland ever causing me problems other than Craglorn.

It does. They were directly speaking about Caldwell silver and gold.

Meaning that mobs now just dont have a level. Of course, this made them easier. And the player no longer needs to progress in order to explore Tamriel.
The only locations where the mobs were really noticeably nerfed were the IC and Craglorn.

The mobs are cp 160 and new players get a buff afaik. They did more than that for example there's a "difficult boss" fight that got removed from one of the public dungeons iirc. The one with the elves fighting against some goblins one of the alliances made an agreement with or something like that.

KoIIegoIas

SilverBride wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

The problem with extreme easy and biring overland content is the following: people dislikesd cadwells silver and gold because it was to hard to do it again after they did it once. For the majority.
Then they felt released and happy that they experienced that hell of a ride.

When they did it the first time the majority of people enjoyed the hard content.

That is the opposite of what Rich Lambert stated. He said that 2/3 of the game (Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold) were never played because people just didn't want difficulty in the story. This still holds true today for the majority.

From my own experience I completed it on one character but hated it so much I never did it again. I didn't feel any sense of release or happiness.

My statement is based on what i did read in the forums and from the opinions of players from 2014 until now.

Those people werent against difficulty in general, like you wrote. They were against cadwells silver and gold difficulty specific or own faction woudnt be played by that ton of people back in 2014, like rich also said in that interview.

That the majority still holds true today, like you said is just an excuse because the newer players just experience the easy version of overland content. They cant have an opinion about an cadwells difficulty they never experienced xD.

They just grind up to lvl 50 for the endgame and let the boring questexperience behind and forgotten.

There is nothing to hold true other than the fact thats its to easy for a lot of those newer players, wich actually care about questing. Or there wouldnt exsist multiple ''make overland content harder'' threads over the years, before ZOS created this one.

And that most people wich experienced cadwells silver and gold, got what they wanted with the nerf of cadwells Silver + Gold. They even got more than they asked for and thats the problem.

ZOS of course overnerfed it to make sure that complain storm never appears again and even nerfed beyond own faction difficulty. Molag bal fight was a joke after. It died in under a minute and hits like a wet noodle. A total disgrace compared to what the difficulty was before OT.

Great ! nobody asked to nerf own faction, but they swung the nerf hammer twice as far as necessary and now everyone have to live with that forever.

@ZOS Own faction difficulty of 2014 was just perfect. It wasnt too hard and it wasnt too easy. We dont even need instances. Just revert back to old own faction difficulty for all zones and everything would be fine.

Lysette

Ermiq wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

LashanW wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Not to talk about that latency of 360ms doesn't offer me all the combat options in time, so I have to stand in red quite often, because I cannot escape it in time. You forget about that it is an international game and you cannot assume everyone to have less 100ms latency - a lot have latency always shown in red - the game plays differently with high latency.

In my experience even endgame PvE is playable around ~400 ping. It's not smooth, not very fun because you feel a significant delay with every action, especially barswaps, but still playable. Can be pretty risky tho.
I recently did Sunspire last boss hardmode portals at around ~390 ping and managed to do it without a wipe. (this particular fight involves doing high damage to a stationary enemy with the help of 2 other players while following several unforgiving mechanics and constantly moving around because of dangerous red aoes, it also need some coordination with the raid lead via voice chat. You have 90 seconds)
I do Sunspire trial on hardmode every week (Godslayer progression) and my ping is generally ~330ms. (honestly it can be anywhere in 300-400, have seen it going near 500 on recent occasions)
It's frustrating sometimes and I absolutely hate the PC-EU server for its performance, but your ping is ok for PvE.

Lysette wrote: »

So you basically rely on avoiding getting hit. Ok, you didn't say you are not using mundus stones, so you could eventually have like 550 health regen with steed every 2 seconds, stil just 275 per second. So is it all about getting out of harm's way basically?

When I was playing a new character on PC-NA, I didn't bother much about avoiding attacks apart from blocking heavies, never even looked at health recovery. I just relied on healing abilities that work passively when I deal damage (sorc with class spammable and Blood magic passive and later surge). Pretty much every class has access to some way of dealing damage while getting healed at the same time and this can be obtained pretty early on. (For example strife skill from Nightblades, or wardens with class spammable and Bond with Nature passive). Also everyone starts out with the skill soul trap unlocked from level 1 irrc. Level it up and morph it to consuming trap and you have a skill that restores a lot of health and all resources if any affected enemy dies. Stamina weapon skills also a few such helpful skills.

Once you unlock a damage shield/ active heal skill, risks in quests are pretty much gone.

My question was not, how to do it with gear and stuff, but how he does it "naked" without potions and food. That sounds absolutely fishy to me, but maybe I have to learn something here and would like to know this "secret".

Well, if it sounds fishy, I made a video. Here I wasn't actually ready for public dungeons. I didn't activate any useful passives, skills are not morphed yet. I was doing regular quests with this setup and I just didn't see any point to spend skillpoints on passives and morphs. In the public dungeon I certainly started to feel the pressure, and I would change the skills and would use passives if I came in the dungeon by my regular adventure route. But I just jumped there for the video.
You might notice that the Warden's bear helps a lot by distracting the enemies. I think I would have more troubles without him. At least, until I unlock more useful skills, and use an efficient weapon/stats setup. For now I just use a sword with magicka skills which is obviously not efficient at all.

https://youtu.be/dZ4dDa5TDQg

I definitely learned something from what @LashanW and you said - I actually didn't think of skills like vigor in it's longer version as a form of permanent health regeneration, to be recast every 10 seconds, but used those just in case of an emergency. So thank you for your effort, it was really helpful, I apologize sincerely for assuming it to be fishy.

I think the reason why I struggle in a public dungeon is that I see everything out of synch due to high latency and as soon as a lot of particles are around, it spikes up to 700+ms, and skills become unresponsive and in not much time I'm getting confused because what I press is totally out of synch with what I see on screen. The enemy might not even be any longer where I see him on screen (because Mirri might just have pushed it around with her staff) and then the skill cannot fire, because my reticle is no longer on the enemy. Playing with high latency is difficult for me due to the latency spike with flashy particles. Health-wise I'm pretty stable, but I have to care for Mirri, that she is not getting the heat - and she is all over the place in a fight - she is awesome but reckless, I have to protect her.

Lysette

In Craglorn the overland mob seems to be just more than normal, but not really more difficult. I have been to Craglorn a couple of times with my level 20 NB in the group area, and with the help of Mirri I can be there. I don't move around much, beside jumping on enemies - Mirri is pushing enemies around so I have more to care about that her health is not decreasing, my own regeneration is high enough to just take the incoming damage - so far I never fell below 20k with the normal Craglorn overland groups. But 20k is already critical, when I have a huge spike I might get a couple of hits before I can react. So yeah, I cannot play like you do - down to 11k, like in your video, is likely to get me killed with the next bad latency spike. Most of the time my health bar is not moving at all - it shows active regeneration arrows and that's it - that is how I like it.

Parasaurolophus

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

And we don't know the whole picture.

But we do know the devs flat out stated they changed the game to make it easier.

This has little to do with the statement that gold and silver were more difficult. Possibly, but I really don't remember overland ever causing me problems other than Craglorn.

It does. They were directly speaking about Caldwell silver and gold.

Meaning that mobs now just dont have a level. Of course, this made them easier. And the player no longer needs to progress in order to explore Tamriel.
The only locations where the mobs were really noticeably nerfed were the IC and Craglorn.

The mobs are cp 160 and new players get a buff afaik. They did more than that for example there's a "difficult boss" fight that got removed from one of the public dungeons iirc. The one with the elves fighting against some goblins one of the alliances made an agreement with or something like that.

Oh... and? Listen. I've been playing since release too. I played without sets, just spammed with a poison arrow. I didn't even use healing skills and food. And it was still pretty easy. Yes, public dungeons were challenging. It was difficult to close the anchor solo. But overland, quests and delves at your level have always been pretty easy. People complained a lot that they couldn't freely explore Tamriel, that they had to level up. Neither silver nor gold was different. This is absurd.

Tornaad

I am going to be running an experiment. I am going to see how much of the main quest I can complete using only gear found in the tutorial dungeon.

Agenericname

Zuboko wrote: »

I am going to be running an experiment. I am going to see how much of the main quest I can complete using only gear found in the tutorial dungeon.

All of it, although the main itself will give you several pieces of gear, like the prophets ring. Certain levels will give you a weapon of choice. Even without those its entirely possible to complete the main quest.

Tornaad

Agenericname wrote: »

Zuboko wrote: »

I am going to be running an experiment. I am going to see how much of the main quest I can complete using only gear found in the tutorial dungeon.

All of it, although the main itself will give you several pieces of gear, like the prophets ring. Certain levels will give you a weapon of choice. Even without those its entirely possible to complete the main quest.

Then, after that, I will see how much more content I can run with just the gear you get in the intro dungeon.

Any extra gear I get will be sold off or deconstructed.

spartaxoxo

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

And we don't know the whole picture.

But we do know the devs flat out stated they changed the game to make it easier.

This has little to do with the statement that gold and silver were more difficult. Possibly, but I really don't remember overland ever causing me problems other than Craglorn.

It does. They were directly speaking about Caldwell silver and gold.

Meaning that mobs now just dont have a level. Of course, this made them easier. And the player no longer needs to progress in order to explore Tamriel.
The only locations where the mobs were really noticeably nerfed were the IC and Craglorn.

The mobs are cp 160 and new players get a buff afaik. They did more than that for example there's a "difficult boss" fight that got removed from one of the public dungeons iirc. The one with the elves fighting against some goblins one of the alliances made an agreement with or something like that.

Oh... and? Listen. I've been playing since release too. I played without sets, just spammed with a poison arrow. I didn't even use healing skills and food. And it was still pretty easy. Yes, public dungeons were challenging. It was difficult to close the anchor solo. But overland, quests and delves at your level have always been pretty easy. People complained a lot that they couldn't freely explore Tamriel, that they had to level up. Neither silver nor gold was different. This is absurd.

A lot of people have discussed the differences they felt from before One Tamriel, both positive and negative. Some people called Overland over-nerfed, while others celebrated the changes. The devs themselves have gone on record as stating that they changed Overland to be easier. I myself have noticed the change before and after and can even think of specific encounters that are now easier. I can also easily find people discussing this both positively and negatively.

So I'm sorry, but I don't believe that no real changed occured. There is a lot of evidence that it did happen, including some straight from the horse's mouth.

It's great that you personally did not notice a difference in the Overland's adjustment. That does not mean none occurred.

spartaxoxo

Zuboko wrote: »

I am going to be running an experiment. I am going to see how much of the main quest I can complete using only gear found in the tutorial dungeon.

You can complete all of it. This game has no demanding requirements for Overland. It's easy. You also can't unlearn the basics of combat like staying out of red, bashing, and interrupting. That's a good thing but all the more reason Overland's difficulty needs to be increased.

SilverBride

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Zuboko wrote: »

I am going to be running an experiment. I am going to see how much of the main quest I can complete using only gear found in the tutorial dungeon.

You can complete all of it. This game has no demanding requirements for Overland. It's easy. You also can't unlearn the basics of combat like staying out of red, bashing, and interrupting. That's a good thing but all the more reason Overland's difficulty needs to be increased.

Overland difficulty does not need to be increased. A lot of players like it just as it is. Increasing the difficulty for everyone would be very unfair.

It's a minority who want more difficult overland, which is why a debuff and challenge banners are the only reasonable options.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Zuboko wrote: »

I am going to be running an experiment. I am going to see how much of the main quest I can complete using only gear found in the tutorial dungeon.

You can complete all of it. This game has no demanding requirements for Overland. It's easy. You also can't unlearn the basics of combat like staying out of red, bashing, and interrupting. That's a good thing but all the more reason Overland's difficulty needs to be increased.

Overland difficulty does not need to be increased. A lot of players like it just as it is. Increasing the difficulty for everyone would be very unfair.

It's a minority who want more difficult overland, which is why a debuff and challenge banners are the only reasonable options.

Well, yeah. I agree. I do think it should be optional. But we do need something to happen. It's far too easy for some of us.

drsalvation

I think we can simplify this whole argument to not wanting difficulty, but rather engagement. (I DO however want a veteran story mode to make the final bosses actually final bosses, and make the mindless grind of difficult dungeons have an actual good reason to farm)

I have video evidence of how unengaging overland is with my DPS character. It takes about one minute and 30 seconds to bring me down to 5% hp. When my character is just standing still, without the weapon drawn. Then I just chug a potion, buff up and spam dizzying strike 4 times and the fight is over.

I don't think overland mobs need 4 times their health, I just think they need to hit harder. Many of us have an endless supplies of tri-stat potions which we never use because we never need to (or we just use specialized potions that are not the ones that ZoS keeps throwing at us with dailies).

My tank build can just stand still and let overland mobs kill themselves within the next 6 minutes of just hitting me and me reflecting back their blows without doing anything (but I get that's CP, but even without that perk, my health regen is greater than the DPS of overland mobs).

We're not asking for dark souls level difficulty, just give us reasons to actually NEED to dodge, interrupt, or block any of the mob attacks.

Lysette

I guess, most want basically combat the Sun Tzu style "don't start a fight, which you haven't already won" - so combat is not there to give an actual challenge, the outcome should always be the player winning. If that is in doubt or even questionable, quite a few will not want to play anymore. This is a fantasy game, where we are supposed to be heroes and heroines without to actually having to be heroic -.it is a theme park like experience, everyone can do it and is absolutely likely to win in any combat situation. This game is not mainly about combat, but about lore and story and the culture and landscapes of Tamriel.

spartaxoxo

Lysette wrote: »

I guess, most want basically combat the Sun Tzu style "don't start a fight, which you haven't already won" - so combat is not there to give an actual challenge, the outcome should always be the player winning. If that is in doubt or even questionable, quite a few will not want to play anymore. This is a fantasy game, where we are supposed to be heroes and heroines without to actually having to be heroic -.it is a theme park like experience, everyone can do it and is absolutely likely to win in any combat situation. This game is not mainly about combat, but about lore and story and the culture and landscapes of Tamriel.

"Play your way" means that game is about whatever we want it to be about. But the game delivers a promise it can't keep by actively punishing people for getting good at it with a lack of content.

Lysette

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I guess, most want basically combat the Sun Tzu style "don't start a fight, which you haven't already won" - so combat is not there to give an actual challenge, the outcome should always be the player winning. If that is in doubt or even questionable, quite a few will not want to play anymore. This is a fantasy game, where we are supposed to be heroes and heroines without to actually having to be heroic -.it is a theme park like experience, everyone can do it and is absolutely likely to win in any combat situation. This game is not mainly about combat, but about lore and story and the culture and landscapes of Tamriel.

"Play your way" means that game is about whatever we want it to be about. But the game delivers a promise it can't keep by actively punishing people for getting good at it with a lack of content.

I understand where you are coming from - and I personally would want some of the mob to hit harder, but certainly not to the point, where I would actually have to avoid the red, because I often cannot do that due to latency issues. And if I would be killed more often, I would stop playing, it is a fantasy game, not an fps. FPS like challenge has no place in an RPG. People want to experience the story, not fight for long every few meters - it is already like it is annoying enough, with weak mob. We do not need that to be even more annoying by making them tougher. But they could definitely hit harder than they do.

A game should not "push" players to anything - there are much too many games out there to choose from - a game trying to push me will just make me play something else. Maybe you like being pushed, I don't.

spartaxoxo

Lysette wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I guess, most want basically combat the Sun Tzu style "don't start a fight, which you haven't already won" - so combat is not there to give an actual challenge, the outcome should always be the player winning. If that is in doubt or even questionable, quite a few will not want to play anymore. This is a fantasy game, where we are supposed to be heroes and heroines without to actually having to be heroic -.it is a theme park like experience, everyone can do it and is absolutely likely to win in any combat situation. This game is not mainly about combat, but about lore and story and the culture and landscapes of Tamriel.

"Play your way" means that game is about whatever we want it to be about. But the game delivers a promise it can't keep by actively punishing people for getting good at it with a lack of content.

I understand where you are coming from - and I personally would want some of the mob to hit harder, but certainly not to the point, where I would actually have to avoid the red, because I often cannot do that due to latency issues. And if I would be killed more often, I would stop playing, it is a fantasy game, not an fps. FPS like challenge has no place in an RPG. People want to experience the story, not fight for long every few meters - it is already like it is annoying enough, with weak mob. We do not need that to be even more annoying by making them tougher.

That's why however they implement it should be optional.

Agenericname

Lysette wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I guess, most want basically combat the Sun Tzu style "don't start a fight, which you haven't already won" - so combat is not there to give an actual challenge, the outcome should always be the player winning. If that is in doubt or even questionable, quite a few will not want to play anymore. This is a fantasy game, where we are supposed to be heroes and heroines without to actually having to be heroic -.it is a theme park like experience, everyone can do it and is absolutely likely to win in any combat situation. This game is not mainly about combat, but about lore and story and the culture and landscapes of Tamriel.

"Play your way" means that game is about whatever we want it to be about. But the game delivers a promise it can't keep by actively punishing people for getting good at it with a lack of content.

I understand where you are coming from - and I personally would want some of the mob to hit harder, but certainly not to the point, where I would actually have to avoid the red, because I often cannot do that due to latency issues. And if I would be killed more often, I would stop playing, it is a fantasy game, not an fps. FPS like challenge has no place in an RPG. People want to experience the story, not fight for long every few meters - it is already like it is annoying enough, with weak mob. We do not need that to be even more annoying by making them tougher.

If that were true and you spoke for everyone, would this topic be 112 pages?

I think the truth is closer to some people want a visual novel. Others want to be engaged in the content, part of that heroic battle rather than a spectator.

Lysette

Agenericname wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I guess, most want basically combat the Sun Tzu style "don't start a fight, which you haven't already won" - so combat is not there to give an actual challenge, the outcome should always be the player winning. If that is in doubt or even questionable, quite a few will not want to play anymore. This is a fantasy game, where we are supposed to be heroes and heroines without to actually having to be heroic -.it is a theme park like experience, everyone can do it and is absolutely likely to win in any combat situation. This game is not mainly about combat, but about lore and story and the culture and landscapes of Tamriel.

"Play your way" means that game is about whatever we want it to be about. But the game delivers a promise it can't keep by actively punishing people for getting good at it with a lack of content.

I understand where you are coming from - and I personally would want some of the mob to hit harder, but certainly not to the point, where I would actually have to avoid the red, because I often cannot do that due to latency issues. And if I would be killed more often, I would stop playing, it is a fantasy game, not an fps. FPS like challenge has no place in an RPG. People want to experience the story, not fight for long every few meters - it is already like it is annoying enough, with weak mob. We do not need that to be even more annoying by making them tougher.

If that were true and you spoke for everyone, would this topic be 112 pages?

I think the truth is closer to some people want a visual novel. Others want to be engaged in the content, part of that heroic battle rather than a spectator.

the other way round - a few want a challenge, whilst the majority of players is happy with the game as it is. If it would not be like this, ZOS would have changed it already, but the success of this model shows, that the majority likes it as it is.

spartaxoxo

Lysette wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I guess, most want basically combat the Sun Tzu style "don't start a fight, which you haven't already won" - so combat is not there to give an actual challenge, the outcome should always be the player winning. If that is in doubt or even questionable, quite a few will not want to play anymore. This is a fantasy game, where we are supposed to be heroes and heroines without to actually having to be heroic -.it is a theme park like experience, everyone can do it and is absolutely likely to win in any combat situation. This game is not mainly about combat, but about lore and story and the culture and landscapes of Tamriel.

"Play your way" means that game is about whatever we want it to be about. But the game delivers a promise it can't keep by actively punishing people for getting good at it with a lack of content.

I understand where you are coming from - and I personally would want some of the mob to hit harder, but certainly not to the point, where I would actually have to avoid the red, because I often cannot do that due to latency issues. And if I would be killed more often, I would stop playing, it is a fantasy game, not an fps. FPS like challenge has no place in an RPG. People want to experience the story, not fight for long every few meters - it is already like it is annoying enough, with weak mob. We do not need that to be even more annoying by making them tougher.

If that were true and you spoke for everyone, would this topic be 112 pages?

I think the truth is closer to some people want a visual novel. Others want to be engaged in the content, part of that heroic battle rather than a spectator.

the other way round - a few want a challenge, whilst the majority of players is happy with the game as it is. If it would not be like this, ZOS would have changed it already, but the success of this model shows, that the majority likes it as it is.

Yes. Yes. We're in the minority. Who cares? That shouldn't detract from the fact that "Play Your Way" is empty marketing so long as getting good at the game means that you have to actively stop playing mid-fight to enjoy it. Or that they make content for every other smaller group in this game that they actively court to pay for their game.

Agenericname

Lysette wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I guess, most want basically combat the Sun Tzu style "don't start a fight, which you haven't already won" - so combat is not there to give an actual challenge, the outcome should always be the player winning. If that is in doubt or even questionable, quite a few will not want to play anymore. This is a fantasy game, where we are supposed to be heroes and heroines without to actually having to be heroic -.it is a theme park like experience, everyone can do it and is absolutely likely to win in any combat situation. This game is not mainly about combat, but about lore and story and the culture and landscapes of Tamriel.

"Play your way" means that game is about whatever we want it to be about. But the game delivers a promise it can't keep by actively punishing people for getting good at it with a lack of content.

I understand where you are coming from - and I personally would want some of the mob to hit harder, but certainly not to the point, where I would actually have to avoid the red, because I often cannot do that due to latency issues. And if I would be killed more often, I would stop playing, it is a fantasy game, not an fps. FPS like challenge has no place in an RPG. People want to experience the story, not fight for long every few meters - it is already like it is annoying enough, with weak mob. We do not need that to be even more annoying by making them tougher.

If that were true and you spoke for everyone, would this topic be 112 pages?

I think the truth is closer to some people want a visual novel. Others want to be engaged in the content, part of that heroic battle rather than a spectator.

the other way round - a few want a challenge, whilst the majority of players is happy with the game as it is. If it would not be like this, ZOS would have changed it already, but the success of this model shows, that the majority likes it as it is.

I didnt specify that one group was larger than the other. I simply said some.

If the majority was required to participate with any given piece of content made, would we have a veteran Vateshran Hallows or Hard Mode trials? Those exist in conjuction with a lower level of difficulty version. Thats all anyone asks for.

Lysette

Agenericname wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I guess, most want basically combat the Sun Tzu style "don't start a fight, which you haven't already won" - so combat is not there to give an actual challenge, the outcome should always be the player winning. If that is in doubt or even questionable, quite a few will not want to play anymore. This is a fantasy game, where we are supposed to be heroes and heroines without to actually having to be heroic -.it is a theme park like experience, everyone can do it and is absolutely likely to win in any combat situation. This game is not mainly about combat, but about lore and story and the culture and landscapes of Tamriel.

"Play your way" means that game is about whatever we want it to be about. But the game delivers a promise it can't keep by actively punishing people for getting good at it with a lack of content.

I understand where you are coming from - and I personally would want some of the mob to hit harder, but certainly not to the point, where I would actually have to avoid the red, because I often cannot do that due to latency issues. And if I would be killed more often, I would stop playing, it is a fantasy game, not an fps. FPS like challenge has no place in an RPG. People want to experience the story, not fight for long every few meters - it is already like it is annoying enough, with weak mob. We do not need that to be even more annoying by making them tougher.

If that were true and you spoke for everyone, would this topic be 112 pages?

I think the truth is closer to some people want a visual novel. Others want to be engaged in the content, part of that heroic battle rather than a spectator.

the other way round - a few want a challenge, whilst the majority of players is happy with the game as it is. If it would not be like this, ZOS would have changed it already, but the success of this model shows, that the majority likes it as it is.

I didnt specify that one group was larger than the other. I simply said some.

If the majority was required to participate with any given piece of content made, would we have a veteran Vateshran Hallows or Hard Mode trials? Those exist in conjuction with a lower level of difficulty version. Thats all anyone asks for.

You tried to make it look as if just a few would enjoy the game as it is and that most would want the game to be harder, which is just not the case, otherwise ZOS would have made it harder, but they made it easier and gave us companions on top of it, which made it even more easy, because that is what sells it. If you like it or not, that is what people enjoy, being able to play through the story in a god-like mode, where they can just pretend to be a hero, without having to be heroic or feeling the pain of being supposed to be heroic. ZOS is very proud of the fact, that they created a game where anyone can do most of the content right from the very start. There is content for veterans as well and every year the game gets as well content dedicated to that player group.

But when it comes to overland, that is that part of the game, which is meant to be accessible by everyone right from the very start. New players even start out in the most recent chapter region, if they have bought it. Every new region is meant to be easy enough for them. I think you underestimate the amount of people who play such a game in normal mode or even in story-mode (as in very easy) - the vocal group is that one, where people play in hard or very hard, but that might just not be the majority. The "easy mode" group will not be very vocal about that fact, but they might be in the majority.

ZOS_Icy

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tonyblack

Tbh casual questers who mostly do only quests just as small minority as any other group of players. Eso branched in many directions and tries (or tried) to cater to them all. PvPers, endgame raiders, housing enthusiasts, social roleplayers, crafters/gatherers, traders, etc. Some players do all of those activities, others only a couple of them and the rest only play for one particular piece of content they enjoy. Most of those groups wouldn’t care for any changes for overland difficulty because this is not their main activity anyway.
Even take this thread for example. I’ve been reading forums on and off in my freetime and it would be generous to say that even 10% of forum posters who was active since this thread appeared bothered to comment here in support or against any changes. Only those who play quests or view them as a potential source of fun would try to leave any feedback or engage in discussion. The rest simply would not care.
So attempts to downplay other side of the argument noting that you are part of some unseen majority is ridiculous because you are not. Arguments like this are boring and counterproductive to the whole discussion.

Fata1moose

Here to once again reiterate that the overland needs a veteran mode to feel more engaging. Unfortunately something like challenge banners would not fix the problem because mobs are far too easy as well. I’d like to see mobs hit harder while health only getting a small bump that way you’re on your toes but it’s not a chore to get through. People can try to gatekeep all they want and say it’s only a minority that wants it. While it may be a minority that does not mean it’s not a significant amount of the playerbase and that does not account for people that don’t play ESO at all because that PvE combat is unappealing.

I’ve seen plenty of people try ESO and fall off because the game’s overland is mindless and floaty. The difficulty is not the only thing to be addressed. ZOS has done little since the console launch to improve the feel of combat. They modified the animations and stopped at barely palatable. This game could feel so much better if there was more impact on light and heavy attacks, characters actually turned and faced what they were hitting instead of being off angle from the enemy. Some animations are in desperate need of attention than others (hello dinky bow and arrow animations) but pretty much everything needs to be re-worked. ESO simply does not stand up to the competition in the combat department, something like New World completely outclasses ESO in terms of combat. Gameplay in games is generally important. While I’d like to see new weapons, classes or new systems the number one priority should be improving the combat and not by arbitrary number changes.

Lysette

Why not that many argue - I can tell you why I think that is - because they don't care - they might assume that ZOS will do nothing at all and that's it. And that is actually the most likely - why would they do something what costs them quite a lot of effort for people, who might just be back in cyrodiil as soon as performance there is better. Waste of time and money to do that. Then there is the fact that difficulty means for everyone of those wanting it something different - there is no common ground to be found and regardless how that would be implemented, the complaining would not stop - so doing nothing at all achieves the same. Then there is the commercial side to it, separate instances cost money - and none of those wanting that has stated that they would be willing to pay anything extra for it - and that's it.