$60 Rip off

quantumartist

Bought 20 crates yesterday hoping to get 1... just 1... skeletal mount. These mounts are not available any other way and at any other time of the year. Not only did I not get the desired item, but the other items I got were so bad that I only got a collective of about 60 crown gems from 20 crates!

OMG what a rip off!!! I could have purchased Far Cry 6 for this money. You need to fix this.

Danikat

I'm sorry that happened, but this is exactly the intended outcome. Crown crates are loot boxes, meaning what you get from them is random and there's no guarantee you'll get any specific item in a given number of crates. The nearest you can get is eventually getting enough gems that you can buy the item you want but of course that's expensive. The whole idea is that players buy them hoping they'll be lucky and get one of the rare drops but in reality most will spend more trying for an item than they'd be willing to pay to purchase it directly, so it makes the company more profit.

There is now an alternative but it takes a lot of time: there's a new category of activities called Endeavours in the group tab. There's both daily and weekly endeavours which award a currency called Seals of Endeavour which can be used to buy crown crate items without having to buy crates.

The downside is the items are expensive (an apex mount costs 8,000 seals) and seals are slow to acquire, weekly endeavours typically give 200-250 seals and daily ones give 10-20 each for a maximum of 30-60 per day, so it will take a few months to earn enough to buy an apex mount.

But that's the only options available unfortunately: buy crates and hope you get lucky, buy enough crates that you're guaranteed enough gems to buy the item you want (I believe there's calculators online which can estimate how many that will be) or do endeavours, save up the seals and wait for the items you want to be available.

Araneae6537

I understand your disappointment and have often been frustrated that crate items are only seldom available for direct purchase and I don’t think that the apex mounts ever are.

It is too late now to tell you to check the odds before buying, but yes, if you are going to buy crates, you should only do so if you like most of the potential rewards, including the lower tier items, as otherwise you will almost certainly be disappointed. On the plus side, it is now possible to save up seals of endeavor for apex mounts, although of course you would have to already have them to purchase an apex mount that way from a limited time return. So an improvement, but not helpful to you right now.

martinhpb16_ESO

Never buy those crown crates.

Gambling is designed for one thing only to earn the seller money and for the gambler to get a rush from the tiny chance of winning.

It's all designed to get people to buy more crates.

[snip]
[edited for bashing]

TelvanniWizard

[snip] You will never win with them.

[edited for bashing]

daim

[snip] It should be illegal and hopefully some day it will be.

Crown crates are nothing more than gambling.

[edited for bashing]

DreamsUnderStars

Out of the hundreds of cash grab boxes I bought I have never gotten an Apex mount. I never buy them with the desire for apex mounts though, but there have been items I really wanted and they just don't drop for me. So I just gave up caring about what they drop and save up gems. If I get what I want from the box itself, cool, if I don't it's still a little frustrating.

daim wrote: »

[snip] It should be illegal and hopefully some day it will be.

Crown crates are nothing more than gambling.

Agreed. If I was in control of their cash shop, I'd get rid of their boxes all together and just have everything cost crowns, or do like Black Desert and have people buy gems with crowns to buy the stuff that's already available. And then cycle through the stuff like they already do.

I'm positive they would make more money this way.

[edited to remove quote]

Case in point: I was trying to get enough gems to get Grace of the Green, I didn't get through the boxes, I spent 45$ on crates, I got the daedroth illusion and the mad jester personality. I was kinda hoping to get another Sweet Roll because those things give like 400 gems, but I got 120 gems out of the deal so I got what I wanted.

Unless they surprise me with the Brassy Assasin or dungeon explorer I am done with the cash shop (for now).

N3CR01

'You need to fix this'


Fix what? Its gambling so what do you expect?
Is this your first time ever gambling?

Nogawd

I would have went into it minimally expecting to accumulate the gems and not rely on a win.

Jackey

I never buy crates expecting to get an apex or higher.
I usually browse through the lower tiers to see if there's anything I want in there. If I see several items I can justify my purchase. I never buy more than 15 per season.
If there's only one or two items I want, I buy them with gems.
I also avoid buying Crowns and use my ESO+ Crowns instead.

It's easy to fall into the trap of buying another round because you didn't get the item you wanted.
-"You've already spent $300, what's another $50? Do it bro, you'll get it this time."
-"Bruh.."

Smoky

When the fun stops....

six2fall

Not sure how more people dont realize this beforeebuying but all mtx in any game that use rng have odds against players. The cost to reward ratio is asinine imo even before adding rng to it but if you spend on crown crates go in expecting to be disappointed almost every crate

Amottica

Sorry about your experience. However, it is known the drop rate for the extremely rare items is extremely low. Even then someone can open many more times than the odds would suggest success since each opening is it's own dice roll.

Long ago someone told me to never gamble more than you are willing to lose. To set a specific amount aside for "entertainment" expenses which is what you gamble with. I would suggest the same for crown crates for anyone who considers buying them. Set aside a fixed amount to spend and consider it lost. If you happen to get what you want, great, but do not expect it.

BTW, I do not buy crates.

SkaraMinoc

Here's what 100k crowns (300 crates) gave me a few months ago.

Rewards

• 1x Radiant Apex mount (the 1600 crown gem mount)
• 3x Apex mount
• ~50% of all Legendary rewards
• ~80% of all Epic rewards
• 100% Superior rewards
• 14x Grand Gold Coast experience scroll
• 2x Instant All Research
• 3623 crown gems
  • 2270 crown gems from duplicate rewards
  • 1353 crown gems from extracting unwanted rewards

It's ~100 crates per Apex mount. I can confirm this is still the drop rate with the current Reaper's Harvest crates.

I bought 6x 15 crates (90 total) and received the Skeletal Wolf.

Sorry you didn't get anything but 20 crates is not nearly enough for an Apex mount.

DreamsUnderStars

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Here's what 100k crowns (300 crates) gave me a few months ago.

Rewards

• 1x Radiant Apex mount (the 1600 crown gem mount)
• 3x Apex mount
• ~50% of all Legendary rewards
• ~80% of all Epic rewards
• 100% Superior rewards
• 14x Grand Gold Coast experience scroll
• 2x Instant All Research
• 3623 crown gems
  • 2270 crown gems from duplicate rewards
  • 1353 crown gems from extracting unwanted rewards

It's ~100 crates per Apex mount. I can confirm this is still the drop rate with the current Reaper's Harvest crates.

I bought 6x 15 crates (90 total) and received the Skeletal Wolf.

Sorry you didn't get anything but 20 crates is not nearly enough for an Apex mount.

And I will say this, whaling is the reason why Zeni will never get rid of crown crates. Also I am fairly certain even with your 100+ crates that was still luck, because the RNG doesn't get padded in your favour just because you spent a ridiculous amount of money on crates.

Danikat

DreamsUnderStars wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Here's what 100k crowns (300 crates) gave me a few months ago.

Rewards

• 1x Radiant Apex mount (the 1600 crown gem mount)
• 3x Apex mount
• ~50% of all Legendary rewards
• ~80% of all Epic rewards
• 100% Superior rewards
• 14x Grand Gold Coast experience scroll
• 2x Instant All Research
• 3623 crown gems
  • 2270 crown gems from duplicate rewards
  • 1353 crown gems from extracting unwanted rewards

It's ~100 crates per Apex mount. I can confirm this is still the drop rate with the current Reaper's Harvest crates.

I bought 6x 15 crates (90 total) and received the Skeletal Wolf.

Sorry you didn't get anything but 20 crates is not nearly enough for an Apex mount.

And I will say this, whaling is the reason why Zeni will never get rid of crown crates. Also I am fairly certain even with your 100+ crates that was still luck, because the RNG doesn't get padded in your favour just because you spent a ridiculous amount of money on crates.

Yep, it's random and it's the same odds each time. More crates mean you're more likely to get an apex mount (or any other reward) simply because you've had more tries but there's no modifiers on the odds, there's no amount of crates where you're guaranteed to get one or even where it becomes more likely. It's entirely possible (in fact I think it's statistically guaranteed) that there will be outliers - people who opened far more than the average number of crates required and didn't get an apex mount.

(The other thing to bear in mind is a lot of the time the odds reported are the odds of getting an apex mount, if you want a specific one the odds will be lower. There's fan sites which report the odds of getting a card of each tier and each individual item separately if you want to know exactly.)

Hymzir

The best you can do now, is to think that instead of wasting 60 bucks, you invested them into a valuable life lesson: "Don't buy loot boxes. Do not accept that this sort of fleecing is the new standard in gaming."

The next time you get the urge to gamble away your money, remember this moment. Remember this feeling. Hopefully the sting is enough to remind you that it is not a good idea.

And if you fail, and do find yourself gambling away your cash again, remember the first maxim of gambling: "Never bet more than you can afford to lose." 'Cause chances are, that is exactly what will happen.

Milchbart

quantumartist wrote: »

Bought 20 crates yesterday .......

You need to fix this.

That's like telling the casino owners in Las Vegas to fix the roulette table.

daim

N3CR01 wrote: »

'You need to fix this'


Fix what? Its gambling so what do you expect?
Is this your first time ever gambling?

In gambling you know how much you're betting and know approximately what your odds are.

Here you buy in-game currency and you have no idea what your odds are. You will be "rewarded" with second tier currency to blur your senses even further so you would buy more.

Yes, it's gambling. Yes, other companies do it too.

But that doesn't make it right or fair - especially when you know that a portion of your player base are minors (and yeah there's an age limit but everyone of us knows that minors do play this game too).

Olauron

daim wrote: »

In gambling you know how much you're betting and know approximately what your odds are.

Here you buy in-game currency and you have no idea what your odds are.

The odds are here.

quantumartist wrote: »

Bought 20 crates yesterday hoping to get 1... just 1... skeletal mount.

20 crates is very small number. 20 crates give you about 33% chance to receive an apex mount, so you were actually rather lucky.

Elsonso

Milchbart wrote: »

quantumartist wrote: »

Bought 20 crates yesterday .......

You need to fix this.

That's like telling the casino owners in Las Vegas to fix the roulette table.

What if the roulette table is already "fixed"...

daim wrote: »

In gambling you know how much you're betting and know approximately what your odds are.

They do publish the odds, and we assume that this is updated if, or when, the odds change. Naturally, like any establishment that has gambling, they don't tell the whole story. They tell what they are obligated to tell, mixed with what they want you to know. For some reason, they don't state the odds of winning the Radiant Apex rewards.

For every person who got what they wanted from the Crown Crates, there are several people standing in line waiting to get into the next Crown Crates Anonymous meeting.

SkaraMinoc

Olauron wrote: »

The odds are here.

So 1 in 50 chance to get an Apex.

15 crate pack @ 5000 crowns = 333.33 crowns per crate
333.33 * 50 = 16667 crowns per Apex Mount

If you buy crowns on sale then you're getting an Apex mount for ~$72 USD before tax.

The lesson here is to 1) know your odds, and 2) buy crowns on sale.

Olauron

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

The odds are here.

So 1 in 50 chance to get an Apex.

15 crate pack @ 5000 crowns = 333.33 crowns per crate
333.33 * 50 = 16667 crowns per Apex Mount

If you buy crowns on sale then you're getting an Apex mount for ~$72 USD before tax.

The lesson here is to 1) know your odds, and 2) buy crowns on sale.

I would also add that 50 crates is about 64% chance to get apex mount, so it is far from guarantee.

Elsonso

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

The odds are here.

So 1 in 50 chance to get an Apex.

15 crate pack @ 5000 crowns = 333.33 crowns per crate
333.33 * 50 = 16667 crowns per Apex Mount

If you buy crowns on sale then you're getting an Apex mount for ~$72 USD before tax.

That isn't how it works. You are not guaranteed an Apex mount after 50 tries.

Edit: Does anyone know what reward is covered by "On some rewards, chances improve with each successive missed roll and resets once you receive the reward"??

Destai

Don't buy crown crates, buy playable content.

SkaraMinoc

Elsonso wrote: »

That isn't how it works. You are not guaranteed an Apex mount after 50 tries.

Edit: Does anyone know what reward is covered by "On some rewards, chances improve with each successive missed roll and resets once you receive the reward"??

I was just about to quote that from the documentation right as you posted.

It's likely not public information but I have a feeling that it applies to Apex mounts to avoid the scenario where a very small percentage of players have bad luck and won't roll a win for potentially hundreds of crates.

I'd love to know for sure if anyone has this information to share.

daim

Olauron wrote: »

daim wrote: »

In gambling you know how much you're betting and know approximately what your odds are.

Here you buy in-game currency and you have no idea what your odds are.

The odds are here.
.

I stand corrected, thank you.
I didnt realize theres actually a page somewhere on their web site. Right where it stand out and is easily seen.

Danikat

There's also this website, which uses data from players to calculate the odds for each crate type and overall: https://www.crowncrates.com/

quantumartist

After all this, sounds like a legit grievance to me. Getting pretty good at drafting up legal complaints. Since loot crates are becoming an issue in other countries, might just give it a go.

quantumartist

Elsonso wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

The odds are here.

So 1 in 50 chance to get an Apex.

15 crate pack @ 5000 crowns = 333.33 crowns per crate
333.33 * 50 = 16667 crowns per Apex Mount

If you buy crowns on sale then you're getting an Apex mount for ~$72 USD before tax.

That isn't how it works. You are not guaranteed an Apex mount after 50 tries.

Edit: Does anyone know what reward is covered by "On some rewards, chances improve with each successive missed roll and resets once you receive the reward"??

Exactly right. 50 tries?!? On sale? There is no sale during Halloween which is the only time when the Skeletal mounts are available for example. So in my case I was stuck getting to pay full price of $60 US for 20 chances and got the utter SHAFT. I didn't get anything noteworthy at all. Utter waste of money and that is a problem for any game designer in my opinion. NOBODY spending money on their game in ANY capacity WHATSOEVER should say that. They should always have something they feel is worth the money. During Halloween, it's Halloween themed mounts and items. I got nothing I wanted at all. utter garbage, or stuff I already had that gave me like 5 gems. Total trash.

TRASH.

Other companies would cringe at such a customer review. Not ZOS. Just another money making day for them.

Araneae6537

quantumartist wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

The odds are here.

So 1 in 50 chance to get an Apex.

15 crate pack @ 5000 crowns = 333.33 crowns per crate
333.33 * 50 = 16667 crowns per Apex Mount

If you buy crowns on sale then you're getting an Apex mount for ~$72 USD before tax.

That isn't how it works. You are not guaranteed an Apex mount after 50 tries.

Edit: Does anyone know what reward is covered by "On some rewards, chances improve with each successive missed roll and resets once you receive the reward"??

Exactly right. 50 tries?!? On sale? There is no sale during Halloween which is the only time when the Skeletal mounts are available for example. So in my case I was stuck getting to pay full price of $60 US for 20 chances and got the utter SHAFT. I didn't get anything noteworthy at all. Utter waste of money and that is a problem for any game designer in my opinion. NOBODY spending money on their game in ANY capacity WHATSOEVER should say that. They should always have something they feel is worth the money. During Halloween, it's Halloween themed mounts and items. I got nothing I wanted at all. utter garbage, or stuff I already had that gave me like 5 gems. Total trash.

TRASH.

Other companies would cringe at such a customer review. Not ZOS. Just another money making day for them.

But does this make any more sense than someone who buys $60 of lottery tickets and gets nothing? They got what they paid for and could have reasonably expected.

Now with Crown crates you can:
1) Buy a small to moderate number and hope you get lucky. Very often you will not, as was your experience.
2) Buy a moderate to large number of crates to increase the odds of getting what you want or getting enough Gems to be able to buy what you want.
3) Only buy crates when you like a significant portion of the lower tier items enough that it is a guaranteed win.
4) Don’t buy crates at all and hope the item you want is eventually available for direct purchase (I’ve never seen Apex or Radiant Apex offered for Crowns though)

It’s all about making an informed choice as what is right for you.