Malevolent Offering changes are AMAZING

Andre_Noir

Arkew wrote: »

i not use darloc try again

It has nothing with build. It means that u are useless forever-invisible NB that drove entire team down, nothing else.
A single smash on Radiating Regeneration provide x10 damage value compared to Veiled Strike yet it not affected by armor reduction so next time chose more wisely of what to be proud of

Tommy_The_Gun

NB is losing a class unique feature (being able to cast a skill without using magicka or stamina) is bad thing, no matter what benefits it brings.

That feature is something unique that NBs brings to the table. Cheap but "dirty" & primitive blood-magic style healing. So you can use your resources for other things. It hurts nb tank and nb healer, as all of the sudden they have one unique thing less to offer to the group.

I also understand that class is lacking a self heal... ...but if you look at NB skills, it actually has a lot of potential strong self healing. As long as you deal damage or kill stuff - you get plenty of healing. This is something that gives NB uniqueness, as it requires different play style. Every class plays differently, and this is something that actually should be the case.

Removing health cost entirely is a wrong move and in general hurts NB class. I am looking at it from a perspective of all type of NBs. It only benefits a very narrow spectrum of mag NB and not even all of mag NBs out there.

I would suggest to keep at leat one morph to still cost health, so it would be in line with all of the others siphoning skills (skills that transfer live from a target to you or your allies).

I have been testing this on PTS and new version of Malevolent Offering does not feel like a siphoning ability anymore. It feels very um.. like a "generic" heal that is unsatisfying to use, compared to live server versions. On live server this skill actually feels just like a blood magic skill should & it is very satisfying & rewarding when used correctly.

The base skill & other morph can be a magica costing self-heal. No problem here. But one morph (healer morph with mending) should cost health.

Alternatively, the entire skill & morphs could cost magicka if you cast it on yourself, but if you cast in on ally - it costs health, because you transfer your own live force to heal someone else. It may be harder to implement, but it would be awesome.

^ Anyway, like I have said - making both morphs to cost magicka is wrong move as (in general) it hurts the class more than it helps. At least one morph should cost health.

Arkew

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

NB is losing a class unique feature (being able to cast a skill without using magicka or stamina) is bad thing, no matter what benefits it brings.

That feature is something unique that NBs brings to the table. Cheap but "dirty" & primitive blood-magic style healing. So you can use your resources for other things. It hurts nb tank and nb healer, as all of the sudden they have one unique thing less to offer to the group.

I also understand that class is lacking a self heal... ...but if you look at NB skills, it actually has a lot of potential strong self healing. As long as you deal damage or kill stuff - you get plenty of healing. This is something that gives NB uniqueness, as it requires different play style. Every class plays differently, and this is something that actually should be the case.

Removing health cost entirely is a wrong move and in general hurts NB class. I am looking at it from a perspective of all type of NBs. It only benefits a very narrow spectrum of mag NB and not even all of mag NBs out there.

I would suggest to keep at leat one morph to still cost health, so it would be in line with all of the others siphoning skills (skills that transfer live from a target to you or your allies).

I have been testing this on PTS and new version of Malevolent Offering does not feel like a siphoning ability anymore. It feels very um.. like a "generic" heal that is unsatisfying to use, compared to live server versions. On live server this skill actually feels just like a blood magic skill should & it is very satisfying & rewarding when used correctly.

The base skill & other morph can be a magica costing self-heal. No problem here. But one morph (healer morph with mending) should cost health.

Alternatively, the entire skill & morphs could cost magicka if you cast it on yourself, but if you cast in on ally - it costs health, because you transfer your own live force to heal someone else. It may be harder to implement, but it would be awesome.

^ Anyway, like I have said - making both morphs to cost magicka is wrong move as (in general) it hurts the class more than it helps. At least one morph should cost health.

yes

Arkew

Andre_Noir wrote: »

Arkew wrote: »

i not use darloc try again

It has nothing with build. It means that u are useless forever-invisible NB that drove entire team down, nothing else.
A single smash on Radiating Regeneration provide x10 damage value compared to Veiled Strike yet it not affected by armor reduction so next time chose more wisely of what to be proud of

i prefer being proud of using skill who have class identity than trading it vs a lambda heal who use magicka and lose class identity.

Fhritz

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

NB is losing a class unique feature (being able to cast a skill without using magicka or stamina) is bad thing, no matter what benefits it brings.

That feature is something unique that NBs brings to the table. Cheap but "dirty" & primitive blood-magic style healing. So you can use your resources for other things. It hurts nb tank and nb healer, as all of the sudden they have one unique thing less to offer to the group.

I also understand that class is lacking a self heal... ...but if you look at NB skills, it actually has a lot of potential strong self healing. As long as you deal damage or kill stuff - you get plenty of healing. This is something that gives NB uniqueness, as it requires different play style. Every class plays differently, and this is something that actually should be the case.

Removing health cost entirely is a wrong move and in general hurts NB class. I am looking at it from a perspective of all type of NBs. It only benefits a very narrow spectrum of mag NB and not even all of mag NBs out there.

I would suggest to keep at leat one morph to still cost health, so it would be in line with all of the others siphoning skills (skills that transfer live from a target to you or your allies).

I have been testing this on PTS and new version of Malevolent Offering does not feel like a siphoning ability anymore. It feels very um.. like a "generic" heal that is unsatisfying to use, compared to live server versions. On live server this skill actually feels just like a blood magic skill should & it is very satisfying & rewarding when used correctly.

The base skill & other morph can be a magica costing self-heal. No problem here. But one morph (healer morph with mending) should cost health.

Alternatively, the entire skill & morphs could cost magicka if you cast it on yourself, but if you cast in on ally - it costs health, because you transfer your own live force to heal someone else. It may be harder to implement, but it would be awesome.

^ Anyway, like I have said - making both morphs to cost magicka is wrong move as (in general) it hurts the class more than it helps. At least one morph should cost health.

On the other side it would make no sense at all to keep the health cost for a self heal, and honestly this selfheal was needed. I don't think it'll hurt the class since you can build around it, and actually 3k isn't that much (I'm not even playing as a Magblade and i can still easily sustain it). I can understand your point tho, but honestly the fact that they make it also work on ourself is almost a game changer for a lot of build. Maybe a scalling with any of the highest offensive stat rather than only magika, and maybe making it cost 1-2k instead of 3k magika (since it cost heath too, it should be an almost spammable skill) and we're fine

Arkew

Fhritz wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

NB is losing a class unique feature (being able to cast a skill without using magicka or stamina) is bad thing, no matter what benefits it brings.

That feature is something unique that NBs brings to the table. Cheap but "dirty" & primitive blood-magic style healing. So you can use your resources for other things. It hurts nb tank and nb healer, as all of the sudden they have one unique thing less to offer to the group.

I also understand that class is lacking a self heal... ...but if you look at NB skills, it actually has a lot of potential strong self healing. As long as you deal damage or kill stuff - you get plenty of healing. This is something that gives NB uniqueness, as it requires different play style. Every class plays differently, and this is something that actually should be the case.

Removing health cost entirely is a wrong move and in general hurts NB class. I am looking at it from a perspective of all type of NBs. It only benefits a very narrow spectrum of mag NB and not even all of mag NBs out there.

I would suggest to keep at leat one morph to still cost health, so it would be in line with all of the others siphoning skills (skills that transfer live from a target to you or your allies).

I have been testing this on PTS and new version of Malevolent Offering does not feel like a siphoning ability anymore. It feels very um.. like a "generic" heal that is unsatisfying to use, compared to live server versions. On live server this skill actually feels just like a blood magic skill should & it is very satisfying & rewarding when used correctly.

The base skill & other morph can be a magica costing self-heal. No problem here. But one morph (healer morph with mending) should cost health.

Alternatively, the entire skill & morphs could cost magicka if you cast it on yourself, but if you cast in on ally - it costs health, because you transfer your own live force to heal someone else. It may be harder to implement, but it would be awesome.

^ Anyway, like I have said - making both morphs to cost magicka is wrong move as (in general) it hurts the class more than it helps. At least one morph should cost health.

On the other side it would make no sense at all to keep the health cost for a self heal, and honestly this selfheal was needed. I don't think it'll hurt the class since you can build around it, and actually 3k isn't that much (I'm not even playing as a Magblade and i can still easily sustain it). I can understand your point tho, but honestly the fact that they make it also work on ourself is almost a game changer for a lot of build. Maybe a scalling with any of the highest offensive stat rather than only magika, and maybe making it cost 1-2k instead of 3k magika (since it cost heath too, it should be an almost spammable skill) and we're fine

just make base skill cost health and make one morph cost magick + health called mixed offering (can target yourself)and one health cost only so both win (can't target yourself)

Foxtrot39

They could have given it us both ways :

-One moprh keep it as it is : health cost & scale only but no self target => NB healer & tank healer hybrid happy

-Other morph : planned change but maybe heal for a tad less => selfish tanks and magbalde happy

Healer and tank healer retain they great burst heal for allies only while magblade and selfish tanks can get a good self instant burst heal or heal other for the added magicka price

We need more choices, morphs should allow you to play the same skill differently not entirely remove the unique quirk that make it attractive and a class identity defining skill

Its entering the DK stamwhip debate area but instead of stam cost repalcement we want HP cost only retained for at least one morph

Fennwitty

I would prefer one morph be at least more health-costing instead of both Magicka, but with my NB healer I never used it anyway in 4-person stuff.

If I lag and press the skill button too much I'd kill the healer

(A couple times when I was training the skill and did PUG normals, I'd try to heal the DPS who was dangerously low on health -- whoops they were using Ring of the Pale Order / Blood for Blood and now I almost died.)

Need the bar space and at least allowing this to self-heal is major.

Irisa37

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I also understand that class is lacking a self heal... ...but if you look at NB skills, it actually has a lot of potential strong self healing. As long as you deal damage or kill stuff - you get plenty of healing. This is something that gives NB uniqueness, as it requires different play style. Every class plays differently, and this is something that actually should be the case.

This is true in PvE, but in PvP it's very difficult to kill anything with magicka Nightblade unless you run a ganking build or a bomber build, neither of which appeals to me. If you play a 'standard' group or 1vX ranged magicka Nightblade build, it is very difficult to deal enough damage and to gain enough health back to avoid either being killed or having to stay on the restoration bar and rely on Shade, Race against Time, Shadowy Disguise, and/or Life Giver to get out of trouble. Swallow Soul, for example, is amazing in PvE, but simply does not give back enough health to compensate for a lack of a burst heal in PvP and you are relying on it hitting in the first place. Against good players, this is a challenge, as they will regularly dodge it and the same is true of Merciless Resolve, which will only restore health if you are within five metres of an enemy anyway, which is precisely where you don't want to be as a ranged magicka Nightblade.

Removing health cost entirely is a wrong move and in general hurts NB class.

Considering no other abilities cost health to cast, I fail to see how it hurts the class in terms of its identity. I guess what you mean is that adversely affects healers? I'll comment on that below.

I am looking at it from a perspective of all type of NBs. It only benefits a very narrow spectrum of mag NB and not even all of mag NBs out there.

Ranged magicka Nightblade is only a narrow spectrum because it does not have a burst heal and it is too easy to evade a lot of damaging abilities. At least one problem would be solved by providing it a burst heal and thus making it more viable.

I would suggest to keep at leat one morph to still cost health, so it would be in line with all of the others siphoning skills (skills that transfer live from a target to you or your allies).

I would be happy with the morphs working differently, so that one still costs health. This feels like a reasonable compromise to me and would hopefully keep Nightblade healers happy.

spacefracking

Well. I think this is great. Very happy about the change Having a heal without equipping a resto staff? Fantastic.

Langeston

Arkew wrote: »

Andre_Noir wrote: »

Arkew wrote: »

i not use darloc try again

It has nothing with build. It means that u are useless forever-invisible NB that drove entire team down, nothing else.
A single smash on Radiating Regeneration provide x10 damage value compared to Veiled Strike yet it not affected by armor reduction so next time chose more wisely of what to be proud of

i prefer being proud of using skill who have class identity than trading it vs a lambda heal who use magicka and lose class identity.

At this point, the only real "class identity" magblades have is that they're walking AP ATMs.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "lambda heal," but as far as I'm concerned ZOS can go ahead and slap old templar animations onto Healthy Offering for all I care — just as long as it allows me to [finally] heal myself without having to attack someone first.

Tigertron

I plan to use it on my stamblade. Gives me something to use the blue stuff on. So free for me. Solo I just use pale order ring but in 4 man vet this will come in handy. Also I don't have to use resolving vigor and can morph it back to the burst heal.

Foxtrot39

Langeston wrote: »

Arkew wrote: »

Andre_Noir wrote: »

Arkew wrote: »

i not use darloc try again

It has nothing with build. It means that u are useless forever-invisible NB that drove entire team down, nothing else.
A single smash on Radiating Regeneration provide x10 damage value compared to Veiled Strike yet it not affected by armor reduction so next time chose more wisely of what to be proud of

i prefer being proud of using skill who have class identity than trading it vs a lambda heal who use magicka and lose class identity.

At this point, the only real "class identity" magblades have is that they're walking AP factories.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "lambda heal," but as far as I'm concerned ZOS can go ahead and slap old templar animations onto Healthy Offering for all I care — just as long as it allows me to [finally] heal myself without having to attack someone first.

Might be refering ot it being the ONLY true blood magic skill in a class said to be using blood magic. Slapping magicka or stam cost make it just like other healing abilities

The whole concept of blood magic is using your own life force rather than magicka to use a spell and the planned change remove that concept as a whole from the class as it affect the base skill and both morphs the same way, and the game doesn't have 3 skills that cost health only

Now you need 2 skill slot to use it effectively : one for malevolent offering and the other for the health to magicka converstion skill in the mage guild

Since skill slot are so valuable anyone who ran that skill (nearly all NB support tank and a certain healer builds) are gonna take a direct hit as they will have to use a block ressource wich is already limited or slot yet another magicka cost heal skill drainign an already overused ressource pool further

Healer use that skill to perform strong burst heal while not loosing more magicka for other support skill nor stam for running away or roll dodging and raw healing was honeslty the only thing NB healer have to offer as there are 0 synergies on all but 2 ult skill and no group utility that isn't a guild skill

And tank as a mean to transfer their large health pool to others since they get bonus healing received from the heavy armor passive it made them secondary healers for the team

Fennwitty

Langeston wrote: »

Arkew wrote: »

Andre_Noir wrote: »

Arkew wrote: »

i not use darloc try again

It has nothing with build. It means that u are useless forever-invisible NB that drove entire team down, nothing else.
A single smash on Radiating Regeneration provide x10 damage value compared to Veiled Strike yet it not affected by armor reduction so next time chose more wisely of what to be proud of

i prefer being proud of using skill who have class identity than trading it vs a lambda heal who use magicka and lose class identity.

At this point, the only real "class identity" magblades have is that they're walking AP factories.

That's way overblown about the uselessness of Mag NB.

They also make respectable Tel Var piggy-banks.

Langeston wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "lambda heal," but as far as I'm concerned ZOS can go ahead and slap old templar animations onto Healthy Offering for all I care — just as long as it allows me to [finally] heal myself without having to attack someone first.

And if they allow Drain Power to give Major Brutality/Sorcery without having to hit a target, would give a new lease on NB PvE and PvP.

ealdwin

Fennwitty wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Arkew wrote: »

Andre_Noir wrote: »

Arkew wrote: »

i not use darloc try again

It has nothing with build. It means that u are useless forever-invisible NB that drove entire team down, nothing else.
A single smash on Radiating Regeneration provide x10 damage value compared to Veiled Strike yet it not affected by armor reduction so next time chose more wisely of what to be proud of

i prefer being proud of using skill who have class identity than trading it vs a lambda heal who use magicka and lose class identity.

At this point, the only real "class identity" magblades have is that they're walking AP factories.

That's way overblown about the uselessness of Mag NB.

They also make respectable Tel Var piggy-banks.

Langeston wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "lambda heal," but as far as I'm concerned ZOS can go ahead and slap old templar animations onto Healthy Offering for all I care — just as long as it allows me to [finally] heal myself without having to attack someone first.

And if they allow Drain Power to give Major Brutality/Sorcery without having to hit a target, would give a new lease on NB PvE and PvP.

Agree with the second point. Major Brutality/Sorcery have almost become so integral to builds that forgoing a source of it isn't a choice so much as actively self-nerfing oneself. Its at the point where every class probably (or rather, absolutely) should have an in-class source of it, and if they do it shouldn't be dependent on damaging an enemy.

It's a pain point that Warrior-oriented builds can obtain a general Brutality from either morph of Momentum without any target, yet Mage-oriented builds have to get their general Sorcery from a singular morph of a (arguably) over-nerfed DoT. For NB, it is worse, where those buffs are only obtainable through hitting an enemy with a melee ability. Removing the "hit" requirement is the least ZOS could do.

Psiion

Greetings,

After removing a few posts, we would like to remind everyone that Baiting is non-constructive, and simply not in the spirit of the ESO Forums. Moving forward, please keep discussion respectful and within the Community Rules which can be viewed in full here.

Mayrael

ealdwin wrote: »

Fennwitty wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Arkew wrote: »

Andre_Noir wrote: »

Arkew wrote: »

i not use darloc try again

It has nothing with build. It means that u are useless forever-invisible NB that drove entire team down, nothing else.
A single smash on Radiating Regeneration provide x10 damage value compared to Veiled Strike yet it not affected by armor reduction so next time chose more wisely of what to be proud of

i prefer being proud of using skill who have class identity than trading it vs a lambda heal who use magicka and lose class identity.

At this point, the only real "class identity" magblades have is that they're walking AP factories.

That's way overblown about the uselessness of Mag NB.

They also make respectable Tel Var piggy-banks.

Langeston wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "lambda heal," but as far as I'm concerned ZOS can go ahead and slap old templar animations onto Healthy Offering for all I care — just as long as it allows me to [finally] heal myself without having to attack someone first.

And if they allow Drain Power to give Major Brutality/Sorcery without having to hit a target, would give a new lease on NB PvE and PvP.

Agree with the second point. Major Brutality/Sorcery have almost become so integral to builds that forgoing a source of it isn't a choice so much as actively self-nerfing oneself. Its at the point where every class probably (or rather, absolutely) should have an in-class source of it, and if they do it shouldn't be dependent on damaging an enemy.

It's a pain point that Warrior-oriented builds can obtain a general Brutality from either morph of Momentum without any target, yet Mage-oriented builds have to get their general Sorcery from a singular morph of a (arguably) over-nerfed DoT. For NB, it is worse, where those buffs are only obtainable through hitting an enemy with a melee ability. Removing the "hit" requirement is the least ZOS could do.

Oh absolutely this. Just look at the warden. No cost, self target, returns resources, auto removes negative effects and on demand (while recasted it removes negative effects and heals a bit thanks to passives). While what magblades have? AoE melee skill that requires target to even give a buff - totally balanced.

To the topic.

This one change alone opens up so many new possibilities for magblade like no other. The magblade was the only magicka class forced to use resto staff in PvP, and the only one forced to rely on the very unreliable magicka skills - skills that not only didn't allow for fast healing, but also weren't guaranteed to help at all due to "smart aiming". Now finally, after so many years magblade will be able to use sword and shield, bow, second destro staff and even if he stays with resto staff it's his conscious choice and not necessity dictated by lack of other options.

I really didn't think I would live to see this day, but still, magblade lived to see the buff.

red_emu

EnigmaniteZ wrote: »

Fhritz wrote: »

Man, on a stamblade with 10 resist the DoT hit me for 270 health / stack / sec for like 3 sec... for a max of 710/sec so it's not THAT bad

I'm saying that since the cost is gonna be mostly magicka, my stam NB won't be able to use it. 2.7k or 3.2k based on morph taken, when you have very little magicka regen...really sucks. The live version is unique and more usable. The cost change is a straight-up nerf in usability.

Frankly, I'm tired of nearly all the skills being magicka based. I want more options for stamina, so I can build a character full stam and play with a stamina-based kit, doing every role.

What they should do is implement A or B type costs and scaling. Soul trap's damage is an idea: it deals phys or magic based on which is higher. So..why not an ability which costs magicka or stamina, whichever is lower? or based on the player's dominant resource? It'd allow NB to still have something nice and unique in the healing department, instead of being yet another lousy generic magicka only heal. With the PTS change, it's basically the same as the necro heal but with a selfDoT instead of minor defile...

Stamina already has one of the strongest self heals in game. If they give vigor a magica morph, sure, make whatever class skills scale with stam as well.

Fhritz

red_emu wrote: »

EnigmaniteZ wrote: »

Fhritz wrote: »

Man, on a stamblade with 10 resist the DoT hit me for 270 health / stack / sec for like 3 sec... for a max of 710/sec so it's not THAT bad

I'm saying that since the cost is gonna be mostly magicka, my stam NB won't be able to use it. 2.7k or 3.2k based on morph taken, when you have very little magicka regen...really sucks. The live version is unique and more usable. The cost change is a straight-up nerf in usability.

Frankly, I'm tired of nearly all the skills being magicka based. I want more options for stamina, so I can build a character full stam and play with a stamina-based kit, doing every role.

What they should do is implement A or B type costs and scaling. Soul trap's damage is an idea: it deals phys or magic based on which is higher. So..why not an ability which costs magicka or stamina, whichever is lower? or based on the player's dominant resource? It'd allow NB to still have something nice and unique in the healing department, instead of being yet another lousy generic magicka only heal. With the PTS change, it's basically the same as the necro heal but with a selfDoT instead of minor defile...

Stamina already has one of the strongest self heals in game. If they give vigor a magica morph, sure, make whatever class skills scale with stam as well.

Meh, vigor is strong but not op, and remember that magika can access to strong shields, multiple heal, etc... And you can't compare a class skill and a "guild" skill, MO should scale with you highest offensive stat / highest ressource pool to allow magNB, StamNB or even TankNB to use it

Mayrael

Fhritz wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

EnigmaniteZ wrote: »

Fhritz wrote: »

Man, on a stamblade with 10 resist the DoT hit me for 270 health / stack / sec for like 3 sec... for a max of 710/sec so it's not THAT bad

I'm saying that since the cost is gonna be mostly magicka, my stam NB won't be able to use it. 2.7k or 3.2k based on morph taken, when you have very little magicka regen...really sucks. The live version is unique and more usable. The cost change is a straight-up nerf in usability.

Frankly, I'm tired of nearly all the skills being magicka based. I want more options for stamina, so I can build a character full stam and play with a stamina-based kit, doing every role.

What they should do is implement A or B type costs and scaling. Soul trap's damage is an idea: it deals phys or magic based on which is higher. So..why not an ability which costs magicka or stamina, whichever is lower? or based on the player's dominant resource? It'd allow NB to still have something nice and unique in the healing department, instead of being yet another lousy generic magicka only heal. With the PTS change, it's basically the same as the necro heal but with a selfDoT instead of minor defile...

Stamina already has one of the strongest self heals in game. If they give vigor a magica morph, sure, make whatever class skills scale with stam as well.

Meh, vigor is strong but not op, and remember that magika can access to strong shields, multiple heal, etc... And you can't compare a class skill and a "guild" skill, MO should scale with you highest offensive stat / highest ressource pool to allow magNB, StamNB or even TankNB to use it

Nope. Somehow we don't see many magblades out there besides of bombing while Cyro and IC are filled with stamblades, it doesn't look like stamblade is in a really bad spot in this area, you really want to play which spec has it better? Roll dodge. Better than all shields, combined with smart use of cloak makes stamblades much more slippery than any magblade.