Vampire 3.0

Captain_OP · January 2022

magnus01 wrote: »

I will get hated on for saying this but it needs a total rework to be more inline with werewolf the feeding mech needs to be reversed because facepalm.
the skills need a total rework because now vamps are for roleplay

Don’t feed will mean that I get the highest benefits without doing something, which was the reason why people wanted it to be reversed. The stage 4, people don’t talk to you penalty, would be the only reason why someone would fed to get stage 3. at the moment you drop to stage 3 after 4 hours. The rereverse would make the stage game boring again, why do you prefer that?

and the beast form needs a blood mech like the feeding for the werewolf does.

same for the bone goliath not the skill set mind you but the feeding mech ,dead bodies should be able to fuel the form.

I dislike making the vampire another werewolf, then I would rather like no transformation at all in the tree. How do you think about a toggle transformation, which can be reactivated like the warden bear ability to do some damage?

vamps should buff magic like werewolf buffs stam

then it would truly be a choice over vamps sucks ass and makes life harder, wolf makes life easy for stam builds can tank like a boss and can stay in form for ages provided there is stuff to kill.

its what should have been done in the first place but they just take a nuke to vamp every time they touch it and it just made me so sad.

Since the vampire skill tree doesn’t remove the ability to add every other skill to the bar, there is no need to add the buff. The same for tanking skill and I know that this one refer to the most nerf. I presented a aoe taunt, wouldn’t be That enough with the healing abilities to make the vampire tree attractive to tanks?

Rav3nb0rn · January 2022

Making the vampire skill line attractive for PvE end game content as well as PvP is tough - will take some time and adjustments from ZoS . But then again , some tweaks are necessary . I still believe that NPC vampires ( Lady Thorn eg. ) is stronger than us and perhaps that's intended . There's something though to work upon .
If we could turn at some point to Vampire Lords ( not Lamae's bloodline but Molag Bal's lore gift to vampires ) that could be really nice because Skyrim's counterpart excelled at fighting multiple people and controlling the battlefield . Now , many would say '' yes ! please ! '' including me - with the necessary changes it could be something much needed for Vamps .
I hope we get this option in the future .

Captain_OP · January 2022

Rav3nb0rn wrote: »

Making the vampire skill line attractive for PvE end game content as well as PvP is tough - will take some time and adjustments from ZoS . But then again , some tweaks are necessary . I still believe that NPC vampires ( Lady Thorn eg. ) is stronger than us and perhaps that's intended . There's something though to work upon .
If we could turn at some point to Vampire Lords ( not Lamae's bloodline but Molag Bal's lore gift to vampires ) that could be really nice because Skyrim's counterpart excelled at fighting multiple people and controlling the battlefield . Now , many would say '' yes ! please ! '' including me - with the necessary changes it could be something much needed for Vamps .
I hope we get this option in the future .

I think they could have done better in first place. Implementing the vampire as a high risk high reward playstyle isnt what everyone likes or can deal with and on top it is extremly hard to balance. It is always a coin flip between useless or first place in meta.
Maybe it would be cool to choose the bloodline like you have said, this way every player could be pleased. Those who liked the high risk high reward and those who wanted the vampire lord skyrim style, would get their playstyle.

Xarico · January 2022

Captain_OP wrote: »

Don’t feed will mean that I get the highest benefits without doing something, which was the reason why people wanted it to be reversed. The stage 4, people don’t talk to you penalty, would be the only reason why someone would fed to get stage 3. at the moment you drop to stage 3 after 4 hours. The rereverse would make the stage game boring again, why do you prefer that?

I think that feeding once in 4 hours to stay at the same stage is much more boring than rapidly increasing your stage through skill usage and then having to (frequently) eat someone to calm down, mend wounds, and interact with people.

Captain_OP · January 2022

Xarico wrote: »

Captain_OP wrote: »

Don’t feed will mean that I get the highest benefits without doing something, which was the reason why people wanted it to be reversed. The stage 4, people don’t talk to you penalty, would be the only reason why someone would fed to get stage 3. at the moment you drop to stage 3 after 4 hours. The rereverse would make the stage game boring again, why do you prefer that?

I think that feeding once in 4 hours to stay at the same stage is much more boring than rapidly increasing your stage through skill usage and then having to (frequently) eat someone to calm down, mend wounds, and interact with people.

The more i think about it the more i agree with this.

I will add it to the Vampire 3.0 concept.

KhajiitLivesMatter · January 2022

Captain_OP wrote: »

Hallo people of Tamriel,
with the ongoing discussions about the state of the Vampires and a lot of free time on my side, i researched the old goals of the Vampire 2.0 and Vampires in Skyrim and Oblivion.

Vampire 2.0
The main goal was to make being a vampire a real choise, because of the passives everybody was a stage 2 vampire to use mistform and get the stamina and magicka regain boni with little cost. The design put the “Blood Magic” theme in the forground to design the new Abilities and put in the Blood Lord aka Blood Scion transformation. The Blood Magic was interpreted with Eviscerate and Blood Frenzy. The draw backs of being a Vampire were Reduction in Health Recovery, Increase in damage from Flame attacks and Increase cost for non-Vampire abilities.
Source: https://elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/58225

On the plus side we can say it is now a choise. With the increase of cost most player droped Vampire out. The Meta Community seaked for new damage records with Eviscerate and Blood Frenzy. The Blood Magic Fantasy was hitting good, but had to be nerfed. Eviscerate and Blood Frenzy denied healing from other players and the nail in the cofin is the new mistform pve nerf that leaves the Vampire player with drain that isnt populare to use because of its low damage and no escape option. The Blood Scion has a to litttle uptime to compensate the missing heal/mitigation options. On top a lot of player reported that they got kicked as vampire dps players from groups because they can not be healed. Without the healing a healer couldnt applie buffs to a player.
All this changes leads to situtaion were only pvp, player or role or overland questing player choose vampirisim. At this point i am not sure if this was the goal of the Designer, since the design philosophie is play what you want, we can conclude that this isnt anymore the case for Vampire. There are a bunch of other little things players comlained like the passive weopon and spell damage after being stealthed, invisible or in mistform, Eviscarate being a melee ability without stamina morph or scaling and Mesmerize as a hard to hit spell because of calculating issues.

Skyrim and Oblivion
In Skyrim and oblivion wasnt the Blood Magic the main point of being a normal Vampire. Only the Blood Lords could use all those cool spells and had a Special skill tree in the Dawnguard DLC from Skyrim. So i rather focus on the base skills for a vampire line and the Blood Magic on the Ultimate Ability. The main part in both games is that sunlight kills your or your health/stamina/magicka regain. This is quite hard to translate to a mmorpg, because a player couldnt wait until night like in the elder scrolls games. On top you take overall a huge bunch of increased fire damage, but in trade of you get some posion, disease resistance, in skyrim frost and in oblivion physical resistance.
Skills from Oblivion:
Stage One: Hunter's Sight – Night-Eye for 30 seconds on Self. Detect Life 100 ft. for 30 seconds on Self.

Stage Two: Vampire's Seduction – Charm 50 points for 20 seconds on Touch.

Stage Three: Reign of Terror – Silence 20ft. for 60 seconds. Demoralize up to level 6 for 60 seconds on touch.

Stage Four: Embrace of Shadows – Night-Eye for 90 seconds on Self. Invisibility for 180 seconds on Self.

Skills from Skyrim
Stage One: Vampiric Drain - Drain health, magicka, and stamina from the target.

Stage One: Vampire's Servant - Reanimate a dead body to fight for you for one minute.

Stage One: Vampire's Sight - Giving you Night Eye for 60 seconds.

Stage Two and Three: Vampire's Seduction - A hostile creature or person to stop fighting for 30 seconds

Stage Four: Embrace of Shadows - Become completely invisible for the duration of the spell and get Night Vision for 180 seconds.

With this we have the two most iconic Vampire abilities Vampire's Seduction and Embrace of Shadows. With Skyrim the Vampire Servant and Vampire Drain was a nice addition.

Vampire 3.0
From the first iteration of the Vampire in eso did the Bat Swarm ultimate become a iconic and loved spell for vampire players. Embrace of Shadows maybe would break game balance if every class could have easy access to invisibility which was a short time on the bat swarm ultimate and got removed. So i would focus on a third iteration on Drain, Servants, Seduction, Mistform and Bat Swarm. The ultimate to embrace the Blood Magic theme from the Skyrim Dawnguard DLC and Greymore should be the Blood Scion with some cool specials. To wrap it up, here is my take:

Actives (every ability is a criminal act):
Drain
Drain steal life as beam(only cast animation no channel, interrupeted on out of range) on medium range from target and scale on highest stat(health, magica, stamina) with increasing heal based on current life of player for a few seconds.
Morph 1 - Generates ultimate
Morph 2 - More beams but weaker per beam and beams only work on short range.
Note - Only one beam per target.

Vampire's servant
Raise a corpse to fight for player and scales on highest offensive stat. Costs little live per second.
Morph 1 - Stronger rotten Servants with disease aoe and apply minor breach
Morph 2 - Gargoyle which cast Drain with Morph 2
Note - Toggle Ability with little not increasing live cost to maintain. Mainly to adaped the Blood Magic Theme and to include the Role Play element not to run with a Zombie in a City.

Bat swarm
As the old Ultimate Bat Swarm with aoe magic damage around the player scaled on highest offensive stat without healing.
Morph 1 - Stamina morph with physical Damage with increased range.
Morph 2 - Swarm is now a placeable ability and applies a little slow.
Note - I know this is not elderscrolls but this scene was sick Drakula Untold - Bat Smash and maybe this would give a player a little feeling of mighty bats like the old Vampire Ultimate.

Mistform
Disables player to attack or cast abilities. Player can not be targeted by abilities and attacks. Aoe damage player take is reduced and the player lose aggro of enemies. No sprinting while in mistform, but the player get increased movement speed.
Morph 1 - When player disables mistform the player teleport a short range in view direction.
Morph 2 - Mist form range gets bigger and enemies inside breath poison.
Note - Toggle with magicka cost.

Vampire's Seduction
A target in medium range walk into player direction and stops attacking or casting spells (New Status: Charmed).
Morph 1 - Enemies take increased damage.
Morph 2 - Short area of effect on all targets, but they get furious after the effect ends(enemies get taunted by the player).

Blood Scion - Ultimate
Player gets empowered to become a Blood Scion with greater stat pools and the ability to find all enemies around the Player. Enter Stage 5.
Morph 1 - Reactivate to rip out the blood of enemies around the player. Strong aoe burst with heal(Short Cooldown to Reactivate multiple times).
Morph 2 - Reactivate to summon blood orb that cast drain with Morph 2 on all enemies that enter area of effect(Medium Cooldown to Reactivate two times).
Note - I dropped the heal for damage, because i think this way the healing is better timed and something cool is happening if the player press r again. The Morphs should perfectly fit the Blood Magic theme to burst out the blood of all enemies.

Passives:
Vampire stages
The Stages are in the range from 1 to 5. Stage 5 can only be reached by the Ultimate Ability. Bloodthirst increase by using Vampire skills, which means Stage goes up. Feeding decrease Stage.(2)
Per stage less damage from physical, poison and disease attacks and more damage from fire. Strongly decrease healing from other players and a little less more per stage. Decrease health Regen per Stage. Stage 5 removes the fire damage debuff and reduces cost of vampire abilities.
Note - Heals should be reduced like 30 up to 50% (1). At Stage 4 the npcs wont talk with the player, except the player has Vampire Charm equipped.

Dark Stalker
Adds faster stealth mode and no movement penalty in stealth.
Note - Like currently on live servers, no reason to change this.

Supernatural
Requires stage 2, increase stamina and magica regain for each slotted vampire ability.

Undead
Requires stage 3, Adds weapon and magic damage per vampire ability sloted.

Emrace the Shadows
Requires stage 4. After 3 seconds sprinting or sneaking get invisible. Reduced sprinting costs.

Blood Ritual
Bite a player skill.
Note - Like current live one.

Conclusion
This is my interpretation of a Vampire in the Elder Scrolls Online. I tried to take everything that the players liked into the Design and still to hold on drawnbacks and commitment to a vampire play style. With the scaling based on the vampire abilities each player can choose how much benefit he wants to get from beeing a vampire and offering abilities that can fit into every role should give the players the play what you want play style. Lore wise it is not a perfect fit, but i focused on icon abilities and what could be fun to play with.

I am a Computer Games Technologies Student and trying to improve my skills to convert Feedback and Ideas into Game Design, so please let me know what you think in the comments.

(1) Edit: Passives -> Vampire Stages - Removed shielding reduction.
(2) Edit: Passives -> Vampire Stages - Bloodthirst increase by using Vampire skills, which means Stage goes up. Feeding decrease Stage.

maybe fine for pve
for pvp thats damn op
and some minor other problems

first : there is a problem with abillity 3
if u completly change the ability with a morph than both have to be the same resource (will provide an example to make it more clear)

e.g. if u play this ability in pvp as a mag character than u likly would prefer the aoe around u cause an stationary aoe is not that great in pvp - that would mean u cant morph the ability cause its completly changed and the stam morph is not viable on mag chars

so basicly either both morphs need cost mag OR
base version have to be stationary aoe to
(u can see a system like that already if an ability has a mag and a stam morph the morph with the same cost as the unmorphed abbility will have a very simular effect which just buffs it while the other resource has often some completly diffrent effect. (e.g. crystal shard))

next: mistform
to be more specific there is a problem with "Player can not be targeted by abilities and attacks."
thats just straight op
maybe not for pve but for pvp - imagine someone is 1v10 (u know the tanks yea?) and as soon as he notices there coming more enemies so the tank could finaly die he just uses mistform and cant even be targetet by abbilitys and can slowly run to the next keep
-> would add more supuer boring builds/gameplay (like the noob sorcs running from a fight and streaking to the next keep )

and the next: vampire seduction
so basicly this is the old fear - and i think they removed it for a reson i dont see a reason why they should add it back in

next:Blood Scion - Ultimate
1. are u serious with that?
2. this sounds just like keeping all stuff which makes the ulti strong already and than adding buffs to make it insanly op

next are the passives :
Vampire stages: i dont see a reason to make the dr stronger - atm the dr is kinda balanced with 30% when u are low life - but giveing resistance all the time is way to strong
Supernatural: the negative side from vampire is having less resources not more so this passive is against the concept
Undead: why remove the stealth requirment ? fits vampire good and makes it more balanced - and u can trigger it kinda easy cause vamp has already invis in his kit

KhajiitLivesMatter · January 2022

Xarico wrote: »

Captain_OP wrote: »

Don’t feed will mean that I get the highest benefits without doing something, which was the reason why people wanted it to be reversed. The stage 4, people don’t talk to you penalty, would be the only reason why someone would fed to get stage 3. at the moment you drop to stage 3 after 4 hours. The rereverse would make the stage game boring again, why do you prefer that?

I think that feeding once in 4 hours to stay at the same stage is much more boring than rapidly increasing your stage through skill usage and then having to (frequently) eat someone to calm down, mend wounds, and interact with people.

yea its more fun but equally annoying in pvp there are basicly no(bg) or very very few npcs

and some vamps prefer to stay at a low stage cause of the negatives to change it all the time mid fight cause of using a few abbility is just not realy useful

Captain_OP · January 2022

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Captain_OP wrote: »

Hallo people of Tamriel,
with the ongoing discussions about the state of the Vampires and a lot of free time on my side, i researched the old goals of the Vampire 2.0 and Vampires in Skyrim and Oblivion.

Vampire 2.0
The main goal was to make being a vampire a real choise, because of the passives everybody was a stage 2 vampire to use mistform and get the stamina and magicka regain boni with little cost. The design put the “Blood Magic” theme in the forground to design the new Abilities and put in the Blood Lord aka Blood Scion transformation. The Blood Magic was interpreted with Eviscerate and Blood Frenzy. The draw backs of being a Vampire were Reduction in Health Recovery, Increase in damage from Flame attacks and Increase cost for non-Vampire abilities.
Source: https://elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/58225

On the plus side we can say it is now a choise. With the increase of cost most player droped Vampire out. The Meta Community seaked for new damage records with Eviscerate and Blood Frenzy. The Blood Magic Fantasy was hitting good, but had to be nerfed. Eviscerate and Blood Frenzy denied healing from other players and the nail in the cofin is the new mistform pve nerf that leaves the Vampire player with drain that isnt populare to use because of its low damage and no escape option. The Blood Scion has a to litttle uptime to compensate the missing heal/mitigation options. On top a lot of player reported that they got kicked as vampire dps players from groups because they can not be healed. Without the healing a healer couldnt applie buffs to a player.
All this changes leads to situtaion were only pvp, player or role or overland questing player choose vampirisim. At this point i am not sure if this was the goal of the Designer, since the design philosophie is play what you want, we can conclude that this isnt anymore the case for Vampire. There are a bunch of other little things players comlained like the passive weopon and spell damage after being stealthed, invisible or in mistform, Eviscarate being a melee ability without stamina morph or scaling and Mesmerize as a hard to hit spell because of calculating issues.

Skyrim and Oblivion
In Skyrim and oblivion wasnt the Blood Magic the main point of being a normal Vampire. Only the Blood Lords could use all those cool spells and had a Special skill tree in the Dawnguard DLC from Skyrim. So i rather focus on the base skills for a vampire line and the Blood Magic on the Ultimate Ability. The main part in both games is that sunlight kills your or your health/stamina/magicka regain. This is quite hard to translate to a mmorpg, because a player couldnt wait until night like in the elder scrolls games. On top you take overall a huge bunch of increased fire damage, but in trade of you get some posion, disease resistance, in skyrim frost and in oblivion physical resistance.
Skills from Oblivion:
Stage One: Hunter's Sight – Night-Eye for 30 seconds on Self. Detect Life 100 ft. for 30 seconds on Self.

Stage Two: Vampire's Seduction – Charm 50 points for 20 seconds on Touch.

Stage Three: Reign of Terror – Silence 20ft. for 60 seconds. Demoralize up to level 6 for 60 seconds on touch.

Stage Four: Embrace of Shadows – Night-Eye for 90 seconds on Self. Invisibility for 180 seconds on Self.

Skills from Skyrim
Stage One: Vampiric Drain - Drain health, magicka, and stamina from the target.

Stage One: Vampire's Servant - Reanimate a dead body to fight for you for one minute.

Stage One: Vampire's Sight - Giving you Night Eye for 60 seconds.

Stage Two and Three: Vampire's Seduction - A hostile creature or person to stop fighting for 30 seconds

Stage Four: Embrace of Shadows - Become completely invisible for the duration of the spell and get Night Vision for 180 seconds.

With this we have the two most iconic Vampire abilities Vampire's Seduction and Embrace of Shadows. With Skyrim the Vampire Servant and Vampire Drain was a nice addition.

Vampire 3.0
From the first iteration of the Vampire in eso did the Bat Swarm ultimate become a iconic and loved spell for vampire players. Embrace of Shadows maybe would break game balance if every class could have easy access to invisibility which was a short time on the bat swarm ultimate and got removed. So i would focus on a third iteration on Drain, Servants, Seduction, Mistform and Bat Swarm. The ultimate to embrace the Blood Magic theme from the Skyrim Dawnguard DLC and Greymore should be the Blood Scion with some cool specials. To wrap it up, here is my take:

Actives (every ability is a criminal act):
Drain
Drain steal life as beam(only cast animation no channel, interrupeted on out of range) on medium range from target and scale on highest stat(health, magica, stamina) with increasing heal based on current life of player for a few seconds.
Morph 1 - Generates ultimate
Morph 2 - More beams but weaker per beam and beams only work on short range.
Note - Only one beam per target.

Vampire's servant
Raise a corpse to fight for player and scales on highest offensive stat. Costs little live per second.
Morph 1 - Stronger rotten Servants with disease aoe and apply minor breach
Morph 2 - Gargoyle which cast Drain with Morph 2
Note - Toggle Ability with little not increasing live cost to maintain. Mainly to adaped the Blood Magic Theme and to include the Role Play element not to run with a Zombie in a City.

Bat swarm
As the old Ultimate Bat Swarm with aoe magic damage around the player scaled on highest offensive stat without healing.
Morph 1 - Stamina morph with physical Damage with increased range.
Morph 2 - Swarm is now a placeable ability and applies a little slow.
Note - I know this is not elderscrolls but this scene was sick Drakula Untold - Bat Smash and maybe this would give a player a little feeling of mighty bats like the old Vampire Ultimate.

Mistform
Disables player to attack or cast abilities. Player can not be targeted by abilities and attacks. Aoe damage player take is reduced and the player lose aggro of enemies. No sprinting while in mistform, but the player get increased movement speed.
Morph 1 - When player disables mistform the player teleport a short range in view direction.
Morph 2 - Mist form range gets bigger and enemies inside breath poison.
Note - Toggle with magicka cost.

Vampire's Seduction
A target in medium range walk into player direction and stops attacking or casting spells (New Status: Charmed).
Morph 1 - Enemies take increased damage.
Morph 2 - Short area of effect on all targets, but they get furious after the effect ends(enemies get taunted by the player).

Blood Scion - Ultimate
Player gets empowered to become a Blood Scion with greater stat pools and the ability to find all enemies around the Player. Enter Stage 5.
Morph 1 - Reactivate to rip out the blood of enemies around the player. Strong aoe burst with heal(Short Cooldown to Reactivate multiple times).
Morph 2 - Reactivate to summon blood orb that cast drain with Morph 2 on all enemies that enter area of effect(Medium Cooldown to Reactivate two times).
Note - I dropped the heal for damage, because i think this way the healing is better timed and something cool is happening if the player press r again. The Morphs should perfectly fit the Blood Magic theme to burst out the blood of all enemies.

Passives:
Vampire stages
The Stages are in the range from 1 to 5. Stage 5 can only be reached by the Ultimate Ability. Bloodthirst increase by using Vampire skills, which means Stage goes up. Feeding decrease Stage.(2)
Per stage less damage from physical, poison and disease attacks and more damage from fire. Strongly decrease healing from other players and a little less more per stage. Decrease health Regen per Stage. Stage 5 removes the fire damage debuff and reduces cost of vampire abilities.
Note - Heals should be reduced like 30 up to 50% (1). At Stage 4 the npcs wont talk with the player, except the player has Vampire Charm equipped.

Dark Stalker
Adds faster stealth mode and no movement penalty in stealth.
Note - Like currently on live servers, no reason to change this.

Supernatural
Requires stage 2, increase stamina and magica regain for each slotted vampire ability.

Undead
Requires stage 3, Adds weapon and magic damage per vampire ability sloted.

Emrace the Shadows
Requires stage 4. After 3 seconds sprinting or sneaking get invisible. Reduced sprinting costs.

Blood Ritual
Bite a player skill.
Note - Like current live one.

Conclusion
This is my interpretation of a Vampire in the Elder Scrolls Online. I tried to take everything that the players liked into the Design and still to hold on drawnbacks and commitment to a vampire play style. With the scaling based on the vampire abilities each player can choose how much benefit he wants to get from beeing a vampire and offering abilities that can fit into every role should give the players the play what you want play style. Lore wise it is not a perfect fit, but i focused on icon abilities and what could be fun to play with.

I am a Computer Games Technologies Student and trying to improve my skills to convert Feedback and Ideas into Game Design, so please let me know what you think in the comments.

(1) Edit: Passives -> Vampire Stages - Removed shielding reduction.
(2) Edit: Passives -> Vampire Stages - Bloodthirst increase by using Vampire skills, which means Stage goes up. Feeding decrease Stage.

maybe fine for pve
for pvp thats damn op
and some minor other problems

Thanks for the detailed Reply!

first : there is a problem with abillity 3
if u completly change the ability with a morph than both have to be the same resource (will provide an example to make it more clear)

e.g. if u play this ability in pvp as a mag character than u likly would prefer the aoe around u cause an stationary aoe is not that great in pvp - that would mean u cant morph the ability cause its completly changed and the stam morph is not viable on mag chars

so basicly either both morphs need cost mag OR
base version have to be stationary aoe to
(u can see a system like that already if an ability has a mag and a stam morph the morph with the same cost as the unmorphed abbility will have a very simular effect which just buffs it while the other resource has often some completly diffrent effect. (e.g. crystal shard))

Good Point! I thought most magica builds would prefer a ranged morph with a little slow, but i indeed it makes sense. We have two solutions:

Treat the ability like Soul Trap -> swaps between physical and magic damage and always costs magicka.
Make both around the player. First morph -> Stamina cost and poison damage. Second morph -> Magicka cost and decrease healing or damage.(Slow would be to Strong if not stationary)

I think i would prefer first one, because it would serve pve and pvp players.

next: mistform
to be more specific there is a problem with "Player can not be targeted by abilities and attacks."
thats just straight op
maybe not for pve but for pvp - imagine someone is 1v10 (u know the tanks yea?) and as soon as he notices there coming more enemies so the tank could finaly die he just uses mistform and cant even be targetet by abbilitys and can slowly run to the next keep
-> would add more supuer boring builds/gameplay (like the noob sorcs running from a fight and streaking to the next keep )

This one is intend to be strong, but i left counter player: The player isnt cc or slow immune and i had in mind to only add the minor or major version of aoe damage reduction. Which means a group of players can easy cc lock the vampire and kill him with aoe. If you say this is still to strong, then i would reconsider and try to solve it in another way.

and the next: vampire seduction
so basicly this is the old fear - and i think they removed it for a reson i dont see a reason why they should add it back in

I think you mean the stun stun from drain in the first version, which wasnt block or dodge able. I tried to find a more usefull ability then the current aoe stun, which depends on the other player to looking at you. In pve a tank could easy cc mobs, but in pvp this one was hard to hit. The charm should be cool in pvp and pve since it makes a player run into you and in pve a aoe taunt or at least something to group enemies.
I think they removed it in first place, because the stun was strong and they added a new stun.

next:Blood Scion - Ultimate
1. are u serious with that?
2. this sounds just like keeping all stuff which makes the ulti strong already and than adding buffs to make it insanly op

I didnt wrote the stat values, because i could not determine how strong it will be, but i think the values would be lower than it is now. The instant full health heal and the 15% damage healing got removed, instead ultimate power needs to be generated to get strong abilities that heal the player. I dont think that this would be overpowered, especilly in pvp. A Vampire could easy be bursted into oblivion before he could use the strong recast or the recast could be dodged which would denie the healing. The Stage 5 should be the cherry on the cake that should make this ultimate attractive and compatative to other ultimates.

next are the passives :
Vampire stages: i dont see a reason to make the dr stronger - atm the dr is kinda balanced with 30% when u are low life - but giveing resistance all the time is way to strong

This one is a hard one, some say the current damage reduction is to strong and some say it is good. By moving it out of a seperate passive and adding it to the stages, its values will depend on the stage and it isnt total damage resistance anymore. It only works against physical damage types, which makes a vampire very vunerable against magicka players or npcs.

Supernatural: the negative side from vampire is having less resources not more so this passive is against the concept

The vampires were never meant to have less resources, even in the first version there was a similar passiv. The Vampire 2.0 system did it that way, but most players didnt liked to get punished to play vampire. This way a player gets rewarded to have the skills equiped. Dont expect insane values for this. For comparision the old passiv was 10% for being at stage 2 and i had a flat values or 2 % for each skill in my mind.

Undead: why remove the stealth requirment ? fits vampire good and makes it more balanced - and u can trigger it kinda easy cause vamp has already invis in his kit

Again it should feel more rewarding to put in more vampire skills instead only being one and getting the max value out of it. I agree that it is a good fit, but the trigger was only usefull for overland pve and pvp. This change should make the vampire more viable in group play and other content like arenas.

Edit: Typo

Captain_OP · January 2022

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Xarico wrote: »

Captain_OP wrote: »

Don’t feed will mean that I get the highest benefits without doing something, which was the reason why people wanted it to be reversed. The stage 4, people don’t talk to you penalty, would be the only reason why someone would fed to get stage 3. at the moment you drop to stage 3 after 4 hours. The rereverse would make the stage game boring again, why do you prefer that?

I think that feeding once in 4 hours to stay at the same stage is much more boring than rapidly increasing your stage through skill usage and then having to (frequently) eat someone to calm down, mend wounds, and interact with people.

yea its more fun but equally annoying in pvp there are basicly no(bg) or very very few npcs

and some vamps prefer to stay at a low stage cause of the negatives to change it all the time mid fight cause of using a few abbility is just not realy useful

Indeed this is a problem, i would say the stage doesnt change in fights against players. Like stage increase by fighting with vampire skills against npcs. Or would it be cool to be able to feed on players (no execution, only stun)?

Stx · January 2022

Except vampire lords were never a thing before skyrim dlc, every vampire out there isn't supposed to be one, they are extremely rare and powerful.

Honestly no matter what changes they make I don't think the 'vampire community' will ever be happy.

KhajiitLivesMatter · January 2022

Captain_OP wrote: »

1.Treat the ability like Soul Trap -> swaps between physical and magic damage and always costs magicka.
2.Make both around the player. First morph -> Stamina cost and poison damage. Second morph -> Magicka cost and decrease

think both options would work

Captain_OP wrote: »

This one is intend to be strong, but i left counter player: The player isnt cc or slow immune and i had in mind to only add the minor or major version of aoe damage reduction. Which means a group of players can easy cc lock the vampire and kill him with aoe. If you say this is still to strong, then i would reconsider and try to solve it in another way.

basicly atm u get 75% dr from erverything and thats already very strong
with ur idea it would be 100%dr against direkt dmg and 30%
and the problem with that some player have 0 aoe dmg so against that players u are immune to everything e.g. on my main i have 0 aoe dmg (stam blade)

with the ability to get stunned its more balanced
but atm i think u blanaced it for groups (still speaking of pvp) but for a 1v1 it could be very frustrating

i think the problem here again is pvp vs pve i still would prefer if the 2 game parts are completly split with sets etc would make balancing more easy - cause as far as i know mistform is considerd balanced in pvp but completly garbage in pve

Captain_OP wrote: »

I think you mean the stun stun from drain in the first version, which wasnt block or dodge able. I tried to find a more usefull ability then the current aoe stun, which depends on the other player to looking at you. In pve a tank could easy cc mobs, but in pvp this one was hard to hit. The charm should be cool in pvp and pve since it makes a player run into you and in pve a aoe taunt or at least something to group enemies.
I think they removed it in first place, because the stun was strong and they added a new stun.

i think we arnt talking of the same thing - atm the effect "fear" will just stun u and ignore block
but that isnt is orignally effect - it was changed a while ago and than it did something pretty close to ur charmed effect
it stunned people and let them run in a random direction - and i was refering to them removing this effect

Captain_OP wrote: »

I didnt wrote the stat values, because i could not determine how strong it will be, but i think the values would be lower than it is now. The instant full health heal and the 15% damage healing got removed, instead ultimate power needs to be generated to get strong abilities that heal the player. I dont think that this would be overpowered, especilly in pvp. A Vampire could easy be bursted into oblivion before he could use the strong recast or the recast could be dodged which would denie the healing. The Stage 5 should be the cherry on the cake that should make this ultimate attractive and compatative to other ultimates.

the problem i see is that it sounds pretty simular to Crimson Twilight which before it got nerfed due to new scaling was considerd very op cause of the frequent and strong healing it provided

Captain_OP wrote: »

This one is a hard one, some say the current damage reduction is to strong and some say it is good. By moving it out of a seperate passive and adding it to the stages, its values will depend on the stage and it isnt total damage resistance anymore. It only works against physical damage types, which makes a vampire very vunerable against magicka players or npcs.

i would need to know how much % u are thinking of the make further statments

Captain_OP wrote: »

The vampires were never meant to have less resources, even in the first version there was a similar passiv. The Vampire 2.0 system did it that way, but most players didnt liked to get punished to play vampire. This way a player gets rewarded to have the skills equiped. Dont expect insane values for this. For comparision the old passiv was 10% for being at stage 2 and i had a flat values or 2 % for each skill in my mind.

yea but vampires need a drawback and just more fire dmg is imo not enought - e.g. against a stam user u just get buffed without any drawbacks cause a stam user doesnt have any fire dmg

i know that many (including me) doesnt like the increased resources drained but the way it was before was even worse cause back than EVERYONE not being a werewolf was vamp just cause u had 0 drawbacks and free 10% reg - now if u play vamp than u rly play it and dont just use it as stat buff

Captain_OP wrote: »

Again it should feel more rewarding to put in more vampire skills instead only being one and getting the max value out of it. I agree that it is a good fit, but the trigger was only usefull for overland pve and pvp. This change should make the vampire more viable in group play and other content like arenas.

the thing is a vampire is not a own class - the player still gets normal buffs like everyone - u always need to consider what u lose and what u get

and as long as u dont lose dmg anywhere u dont neccesarly need to gain some, otherwise if u only gain stuff it will defnitly become the next meta for pve which isnt good either especialy cause in pve u dont have a resource problem normaly atall

your idea to make the buffs scaling with the amount of skills is good btw i would keep that

btw just a compersion what the trade of atm is if u play vamp
- 12% ability cost
- 100% less health reg
- +20% fire dmg taken

+fast sneak / invis
+30% dr
+300weap dmg (if u can trigger it)

so basicly for the defensive part u trade health reg and fire dmg vs less general dmg received which is fair
and u lose resources ang instead get dmg sounds fair to

so with ur ideas it would be :
-50-30% less team heal
-less health reg
-more fire dmg

+fast sneak / invis
+scaling pysical dr
+resource reg / slotted ability
+weapon dmg / slotted ability (easier to trigger than before)

so basicly u trade health reg and fire dmg for scaling pysical dr - depending on the % value thats fair
and than from there on u only get buffs and dont lose anything - u get weapon dmg and resources - and thats not fair so at that point u get way more things from being vamp than losing

the reason whyi left out the team heal is cause it depends on the player if it even matters
- there are solo players for them this doesnt change anything
-and than if u are a group player for pve 30% less healing should be fine cause u have good healers
(i heard good ones get up to 6-10k healing /sec/target)
-and there are group players in pvp - so far them this effect is a dealbreaker i cant imagne any group player sacrificing 30-50% group heal which is very important

so after writing all this text i think the group healing debuff is misplaced here depending on the situtation it either doesnt matter or is way to huge i think u should try replace it if possible

KhajiitLivesMatter · January 2022

Captain_OP wrote: »

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Xarico wrote: »

Captain_OP wrote: »

Don’t feed will mean that I get the highest benefits without doing something, which was the reason why people wanted it to be reversed. The stage 4, people don’t talk to you penalty, would be the only reason why someone would fed to get stage 3. at the moment you drop to stage 3 after 4 hours. The rereverse would make the stage game boring again, why do you prefer that?

I think that feeding once in 4 hours to stay at the same stage is much more boring than rapidly increasing your stage through skill usage and then having to (frequently) eat someone to calm down, mend wounds, and interact with people.

yea its more fun but equally annoying in pvp there are basicly no(bg) or very very few npcs

and some vamps prefer to stay at a low stage cause of the negatives to change it all the time mid fight cause of using a few abbility is just not realy useful

Indeed this is a problem, i would say the stage doesnt change in fights against players. Like stage increase by fighting with vampire skills against npcs. Or would it be cool to be able to feed on players (no execution, only stun)?

feeding on players sounds fun but cause u will be stuned to if a 2. enemie player apears u are dead
honestly i think the way its atm is fine cause it maybe not fun or innovative but it does its job and isnt annoying

Captain_OP · January 2022

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

basicly atm u get 75% dr from erverything and thats already very strong
with ur idea it would be 100%dr against direkt dmg and 30%
and the problem with that some player have 0 aoe dmg so against that players u are immune to everything e.g. on my main i have 0 aoe dmg (stam blade)

with the ability to get stunned its more balanced
but atm i think u blanaced it for groups (still speaking of pvp) but for a 1v1 it could be very frustrating

i think the problem here again is pvp vs pve i still would prefer if the 2 game parts are completly split with sets etc would make balancing more easy - cause as far as i know mistform is considerd balanced in pvp but completly garbage in pve

Indeed the mist is very hard to be belanced for pvp and pve. I kind of understand why the devs droped it for pve. Maybe i should rewrite it entirely. Some wished for stealth skill in the vampire kit and maybe i could move this in place of the mist, but i think stealth got removed from the old ultimate, because there were some issues. I have to look that up and take some time to reconsider. If the mist is still requested and healthy for the game, i ll go with the way i mentioned. For PvE and Group PvP it should be fine, but indeed there is something needed for 1v1 situations. I am not sure if aoe can be direct damage, in case it can't: i would add like 75% damage reduction from direct damage and remove the untargable effect. This should solve the Problem, but maybe should be the damage reduction higher since the player can be stunned.

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

i think we arnt talking of the same thing - atm the effect "fear" will just stun u and ignore block
but that isnt is orignally effect - it was changed a while ago and than it did something pretty close to ur charmed effect
it stunned people and let them run in a random direction - and i was refering to them removing this effect

Oh that was my fail, i forgot that on release it was a "fear". I think the fear got changed into a stun, because in pve it was kind of useless to spread a mob group. The charm would do the opposite and group mobs, which would be very usefull for tanks.

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

the problem i see is that it sounds pretty simular to Crimson Twilight which before it got nerfed due to new scaling was considerd very op cause of the frequent and strong healing it provided

The set is always active, while the ultimate would have a limited time and the recast is depending on the ultimate generation. I consider like 1-3 recast, which whould be nice, but dont lead to insane results.

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

i would need to know how much % u are thinking of the make further statments

Not much, only 3% per stage. That would be 15% at Stage 5 while being in Ultimate Form. In Oblivion they simply added Armor and i thought about that too. Like adding 1000 physical armor per stage.

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

yea but vampires need a drawback and just more fire dmg is imo not enought - e.g. against a stam user u just get buffed without any drawbacks cause a stam user doesnt have any fire dmg

i know that many (including me) doesnt like the increased resources drained but the way it was before was even worse cause back than EVERYONE not being a werewolf was vamp just cause u had 0 drawbacks and free 10% reg - now if u play vamp than u rly play it and dont just use it as stat buff

the thing is a vampire is not a own class - the player still gets normal buffs like everyone - u always need to consider what u lose and what u get

and as long as u dont lose dmg anywhere u dont neccesarly need to gain some, otherwise if u only gain stuff it will defnitly become the next meta for pve which isnt good either especialy cause in pve u dont have a resource problem normaly atall

your idea to make the buffs scaling with the amount of skills is good btw i would keep that

btw just a compersion what the trade of atm is if u play vamp
- 12% ability cost
- 100% less health reg
- +20% fire dmg taken

+fast sneak / invis
+30% dr
+300weap dmg (if u can trigger it)

so basicly for the defensive part u trade health reg and fire dmg vs less general dmg received which is fair
and u lose resources ang instead get dmg sounds fair to

so with ur ideas it would be :
-50-30% less team heal
-less health reg
-more fire dmg

+fast sneak / invis
+scaling pysical dr
+resource reg / slotted ability
+weapon dmg / slotted ability (easier to trigger than before)

so basicly u trade health reg and fire dmg for scaling pysical dr - depending on the % value thats fair
and than from there on u only get buffs and dont lose anything - u get weapon dmg and resources - and thats not fair so at that point u get way more things from being vamp than losing

the reason whyi left out the team heal is cause it depends on the player if it even matters
- there are solo players for them this doesnt change anything
-and than if u are a group player for pve 30% less healing should be fine cause u have good healers
(i heard good ones get up to 6-10k healing /sec/target)
-and there are group players in pvp - so far them this effect is a dealbreaker i cant imagne any group player sacrificing 30-50% group heal which is very important

so after writing all this text i think the group healing debuff is misplaced here depending on the situtation it either doesnt matter or is way to huge i think u should try replace it if possible

Good Point, i had in the first version a reduction to shielding from other players. I like to still go with this penalty version, because i think it fits to the theme and still achive the goal of being a vampire is a real choise(Not everybody is a vampire).
For PvP: Stamina players even if they dont have access to fire damage, they still have the fighters guild. With the numbers i said so far a fighters guild skill would still do more damage to a vampire than to a human. On top the dawnbreaker would be the fear of every vampire with this changes. If this isnt enought this damage bonus could be adjusted to be in line of the extra damage from fire.
For PvE: This is more problematic. I would make the less heal to be applied to every healor health gain that isn't from vampire skills. If this isnt enought punishment then i would reintoduce the shield reduction with 10 up to 30%. This would make the player strongly rely on the vampire healing(Only the ultimate has a burst heal) and a single stun or bad rotation would cause death.

My idea was to reduce the health sustain options and rely those on beeing a vampire. In trade off you get a little defense to dont let you stand off guard and supernatural strength(Damage and Resource gain).

The cost ramp up approach wasnt liked and didnt encourage you to play all vampire skill, since there wasnt any damage skill.

I dont know, what could be a another way to make a penalty for being a vampire?

Captain_OP · January 2022

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Captain_OP wrote: »

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Xarico wrote: »

Captain_OP wrote: »

Don’t feed will mean that I get the highest benefits without doing something, which was the reason why people wanted it to be reversed. The stage 4, people don’t talk to you penalty, would be the only reason why someone would fed to get stage 3. at the moment you drop to stage 3 after 4 hours. The rereverse would make the stage game boring again, why do you prefer that?

I think that feeding once in 4 hours to stay at the same stage is much more boring than rapidly increasing your stage through skill usage and then having to (frequently) eat someone to calm down, mend wounds, and interact with people.

yea its more fun but equally annoying in pvp there are basicly no(bg) or very very few npcs

and some vamps prefer to stay at a low stage cause of the negatives to change it all the time mid fight cause of using a few abbility is just not realy useful

Indeed this is a problem, i would say the stage doesnt change in fights against players. Like stage increase by fighting with vampire skills against npcs. Or would it be cool to be able to feed on players (no execution, only stun)?

feeding on players sounds fun but cause u will be stuned to if a 2. enemie player apears u are dead
honestly i think the way its atm is fine cause it maybe not fun or innovative but it does its job and isnt annoying

Indeed, maybe you are right. It is hard to answer in the current system you get your stages up fast, but slowly down. In the old system it was vice versa. This approche would let you get up and down faster, which can be good and bad at the same time. Maybe it could be enought to make it like: next stage 100 Bloodthirst points and using ability against a player 1 point, against npc enemy 2 and against some special enemy 5 to ramp up faster. Hmm but that sounds difficult too. Maybe like the role dodge it could stack points when using vampire abilites would be enought. Like one or two skills doesnt make you jump in stages but spamming them would make you ramp up stages.

KhajiitLivesMatter · January 2022

Captain_OP wrote: »

Not much, only 3% per stage. That would be 15% at Stage 5 while being in Ultimate Form. In Oblivion they simply added Armor and i thought about that too. Like adding 1000 physical armor per stage.

sounds good
maybe i would add like frost resistance as well
as far as i know vampires are weak against fire and strong against normal weapons / frost

Captain_OP wrote: »

I dont know, what could be a another way to make a penalty for being a vampire?

just some ideas:
-debuffs during day
-less crit resistance (not rly related to vampire just thought about that there is no debuff anywhere so far)
-increased taken dmg from werewolfs
-gets % self dmg from fire dmg dealt
-debuff to the lower resource ( as far as i know a vampire in eso gets better in the stuff hes good at and worse in the rest (atleast a mate which is deep into the lore told me something like that) so maybe if u have more weap dmg reduce spell dmg or if u have more max stam remove some max mag)
-unable to cast fightersguild / anti vampire skills (so if ever released holy stuff/magic)

KhajiitLivesMatter · January 2022

Captain_OP wrote: »

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Captain_OP wrote: »

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Xarico wrote: »

Captain_OP wrote: »

Don’t feed will mean that I get the highest benefits without doing something, which was the reason why people wanted it to be reversed. The stage 4, people don’t talk to you penalty, would be the only reason why someone would fed to get stage 3. at the moment you drop to stage 3 after 4 hours. The rereverse would make the stage game boring again, why do you prefer that?

I think that feeding once in 4 hours to stay at the same stage is much more boring than rapidly increasing your stage through skill usage and then having to (frequently) eat someone to calm down, mend wounds, and interact with people.

yea its more fun but equally annoying in pvp there are basicly no(bg) or very very few npcs

and some vamps prefer to stay at a low stage cause of the negatives to change it all the time mid fight cause of using a few abbility is just not realy useful

Indeed this is a problem, i would say the stage doesnt change in fights against players. Like stage increase by fighting with vampire skills against npcs. Or would it be cool to be able to feed on players (no execution, only stun)?

feeding on players sounds fun but cause u will be stuned to if a 2. enemie player apears u are dead
honestly i think the way its atm is fine cause it maybe not fun or innovative but it does its job and isnt annoying

Indeed, maybe you are right. It is hard to answer in the current system you get your stages up fast, but slowly down. In the old system it was vice versa. This approche would let you get up and down faster, which can be good and bad at the same time. Maybe it could be enought to make it like: next stage 100 Bloodthirst points and using ability against a player 1 point, against npc enemy 2 and against some special enemy 5 to ramp up faster. Hmm but that sounds difficult too. Maybe like the role dodge it could stack points when using vampire abilites would be enought. Like one or two skills doesnt make you jump in stages but spamming them would make you ramp up stages.

e.g. i have a mag necro fully build around being vamp and i use 5/6 skills and i still only am at stage 3 and dont plan to change that
with the current system i eat the buffood to manage that stage every 4h and thats fine so if u think about a new system just consider even though i m using many ability still dont wanna rank up more than once every 1h (maximum)

Captain_OP · January 2022

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Captain_OP wrote: »

I dont know, what could be a another way to make a penalty for being a vampire?

just some ideas:
-debuffs during day
-less crit resistance (not rly related to vampire just thought about that there is no debuff anywhere so far)
-increased taken dmg from werewolfs
-gets % self dmg from fire dmg dealt
-debuff to the lower resource ( as far as i know a vampire in eso gets better in the stuff hes good at and worse in the rest (atleast a mate which is deep into the lore told me something like that) so maybe if u have more weap dmg reduce spell dmg or if u have more max stam remove some max mag)
-unable to cast fightersguild / anti vampire skills (so if ever released holy stuff/magic)

debuffs during day
Thought about that one too, because they were used in skyrim and oblivion. In both game you could rest and choose the time you play, while this is a online game we cant do taht.
The crit buff is interessting. I researched if npcs can crit:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/127023/do-npcs-have-a-crit-chance#:~:text=Yes NPC can crit.
So this would be a good option.
increased taken dmg from werewolfs
Doesnt looks fair, since the were wolfs can get minor projection and armor, but not increased damage from vampires.
The fire damage over time at all time would fit the current vampire iteration, because then it would be easier to deal high damage with the spamable. It has the downside that you could die by standing around and doing nothing.
The debuff to resource or damage of what you dont have maxed is cool, but it would remove vampire as option for hybrid builds.
The unable to use fighters guild skill would reduce the pool of abilities which would be a hard nerf, since there are some very good abilities.

So could it be enought penalty to have reduced healing from other players, reduced by ~300 or 10% crit resistance per stage and the firedamage increase?

KhajiitLivesMatter · January 2022

Captain_OP wrote: »

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Captain_OP wrote: »

I dont know, what could be a another way to make a penalty for being a vampire?

just some ideas:
-debuffs during day
-less crit resistance (not rly related to vampire just thought about that there is no debuff anywhere so far)
-increased taken dmg from werewolfs
-gets % self dmg from fire dmg dealt
-debuff to the lower resource ( as far as i know a vampire in eso gets better in the stuff hes good at and worse in the rest (atleast a mate which is deep into the lore told me something like that) so maybe if u have more weap dmg reduce spell dmg or if u have more max stam remove some max mag)
-unable to cast fightersguild / anti vampire skills (so if ever released holy stuff/magic)

debuffs during day
Thought about that one too, because they were used in skyrim and oblivion. In both game you could rest and choose the time you play, while this is a online game we cant do taht.

The crit buff is interessting. I researched if npcs can crit:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/127023/do-npcs-have-a-crit-chance#:~:text=Yes NPC can crit.
So this would be a good option.

increased taken dmg from werewolfs
Doesnt looks fair, since the were wolfs can get minor projection and armor, but not increased damage from vampires.

The fire damage over time at all time would fit the current vampire iteration, because then it would be easier to deal high damage with the spamable. It has the downside that you could die by standing around and doing nothing.

The debuff to resource or damage of what you dont have maxed is cool, but it would remove vampire as option for hybrid builds.

The unable to use fighters guild skill would reduce the pool of abilities which would be a hard nerf, since there are some very good abilities.

So could it be enought penalty to have reduced healing from other players, reduced by ~300 or 10% crit resistance per stage and the firedamage increase?

it sounds good but i should let u know that i m 90% sure that npcs cant crit u should maybe search a post which is not from 2014 for information
and the thing with the fitghtersguild skills is - year u lose 1 skill line BUT u get an equaly large skill line from vamp

Captain_OP · January 2022

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

it sounds good but i should let u know that i m 90% sure that npcs cant crit u should maybe search a post which is not from 2014 for information
and the thing with the fitghtersguild skills is - year u lose 1 skill line BUT u get an equaly large skill line from vamp

Couldnt find a better resource

The consense was that the crit chance is very low and close to unnoticeable. To make this matter there would be two diffrent debuffs needed one for pvp and one for pve, because the pve debuff has to be stronger, like up to 100& reduction. But this one will be annoying and not a overall good approach.

The one for one trade makes sense, but it put stamina players on a disadvantage, because they lose access to the crit buff and find invisivle skill. In other words magicka player would have much more skill options than a stamina player. The Mage guild should be removed too then, but this will result in a mess. On top it is against the philosophy of this rework. I want the player to feel less restricted, this would do the opposite.

Maybe the cost reduction was the way to go all along. Just like the other skills the cost for non vampire skills increase for each skill slotted. Per stage like 1/2/3/4%.

Alternative i still like the approach to make the healing reduction applied to all non vampire healing.

KhajiitLivesMatter · January 2022

Captain_OP wrote: »

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

it sounds good but i should let u know that i m 90% sure that npcs cant crit u should maybe search a post which is not from 2014 for information
and the thing with the fitghtersguild skills is - year u lose 1 skill line BUT u get an equaly large skill line from vamp

Couldnt find a better resource
The consense was that the crit chance is very low and close to unnoticeable. To make this matter there would be two diffrent debuffs needed one for pvp and one for pve, because the pve debuff has to be stronger, like up to 100& reduction. But this one will be annoying and not a overall good approach.

The one for one trade makes sense, but it put stamina players on a disadvantage, because they lose access to the crit buff and find invisivle skill. In other words magicka player would have much more skill options than a stamina player. The Mage guild should be removed too then, but this will result in a mess. On top it is against the philosophy of this rework. I want the player to feel less restricted, this would do the opposite.

Maybe the cost reduction was the way to go all along. Just like the other skills the cost for non vampire skills increase for each skill slotted. Per stage like 1/2/3/4%.

Alternative i still like the approach to make the healing reduction applied to all non vampire healing.

"Alternative i still like the approach to make the healing reduction applied to all non vampire healing"
u mean self heal to ? sounds fine but than i would go to like 2-3% per stage so nothing to crazy

btw i rly like writing with u compered with all the other forum people - normaly i get awnsers like "no" without any reasoning but u even provide useful ideas i like that ^^

Captain_OP · January 2022

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

u mean self heal to ? sounds fine but than i would go to like 2-3% per stage so nothing to crazy

Yeah, i mean self heal, except vampire spells of cause. Then i would go with 10% base line and additional 5% per stage. On stage 4 with 30% reduction should be fine. It would still makes other heals usefull but it still feels like a punishment. For example on a 8k heal from a potion a player would still get above 5k healing.

KhajiitLivesMatter · January 2022

Captain_OP wrote: »

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

u mean self heal to ? sounds fine but than i would go to like 2-3% per stage so nothing to crazy

Yeah, i mean self heal, except vampire spells of cause. Then i would go with 10% base line and additional 5% per stage. On stage 4 with 30% reduction should be fine. It would still makes other heals usefull but it still feels like a punishment. For example on a 8k heal from a potion a player would still get above 5k healing.

i would go maybe 5% base but that wont change alot anyways so 10% would still be fine

wabajaa · January 2022

I dont understand why no one questioned about the reduction of health regen as a passive for Vampire.

Did you guys watch any vampire movie? Vampire are literally very good at self healing and hard to kill. but they definitely not good at magicka... non of the vampire from movie can do any sort of magic from my memory, if you do, give me some examples.

This passive in my view should be:
health reg increase xx% per stage
mag reg decrease xx% per stage
armor increase xx per stage
weakness to fire damage increase xx per stage

Vevvev · January 2022

wabajaa wrote: »

I dont understand why no one questioned about the reduction of health regen as a passive for Vampire.

Did you guys watch any vampire movie? Vampire are literally very good at self healing and hard to kill. but they definitely not good at magicka... non of the vampire from movie can do any sort of magic from my memory, if you do, give me some examples.

This passive in my view should be:
health reg increase xx% per stage
mag reg decrease xx% per stage
armor increase xx per stage
weakness to fire damage increase xx per stage

Dracula was a dark magic user and Sorcerer in the original source material. Where do you think he got all his gifts and Vampirisim in the first place? Vampires have always been magic users or magically inclined in some way, shape, or form.

Captain_OP · January 2022

wabajaa wrote: »

I dont understand why no one questioned about the reduction of health regen as a passive for Vampire.

Did you guys watch any vampire movie? Vampire are literally very good at self healing and hard to kill. but they definitely not good at magicka... non of the vampire from movie can do any sort of magic from my memory, if you do, give me some examples.

This passive in my view should be:
health reg increase xx% per stage
mag reg decrease xx% per stage
armor increase xx per stage
weakness to fire damage increase xx per stage

I agree with @Vevvev and want to add that it is true that a flat reduction of health recovery doesn't make much sense. In previous elder scrolls games health lose or reduction to health recovery was only in sunlight. In a mmo the player has no control over the ingame daytime, which is why such a modificator doesnt make sense. The design of vampires in elder scrolls rely on strong self healing with draining the blood of their victims. To balance this it made sense to reduce the health recovery.

Captain_OP · November 2022

Now they added a charm effect to the game like i would imagine for vampire seduction, of cause with a different interaction. Would be really cool as a small step to replace Mesmerize with Vampire Seduction. The only argument against it was for me that every tank could need it. Now a mythic item is another source for that effect. So the excess to that effect isnt limited to Vampires.

Vevvev · November 2022

Captain_OP wrote: »

Now they added a charm effect to the game like i would imagine for vampire seduction, of cause with a different interaction. Would be really cool as a small step to replace Mesmerize with Vampire Seduction. The only argument against it was for me that every tank could need it. Now a mythic item is another source for that effect. So the excess to that effect isnt limited to Vampires.

Mesmerize is Vampiric Seduction but by a different name. Why it can charm NPCs to talk to you that otherwise wouldn't.

However, reading the charmed effect on that mythic it's essentially a silence that effects all abilities instead of just magicka ones.

"If you continuously Sprint for 1 second, you gain the ability to pass through enemies. Enemies you pass through become Charmed for 4 seconds, removing their ability to attack or cast abilities as they move toward you. Charming an enemy this way restores 678 Stamina and Magicka to you and heals you for 678 Health. Charming an enemy removes you from Stealth."

If Mesmerize applied the charmed effect instead of the stun effect it'd be.... interesting. I almost would accept the hard to hit nature of it if it could disable a person in much the same way as that Mythic.

Captain_OP · November 2022

Vevvev wrote: »

Mesmerize is Vampiric Seduction but by a different name. Why it can charm NPCs to talk to you that otherwise wouldn't.

True, that would be nice on top.

Vevvev wrote: »

If Mesmerize applied the charmed effect instead of the stun effect it'd be.... interesting. I almost would accept the hard to hit nature of it if it could disable a person in much the same way as that Mythic.

Yes, the hard to hit should stay, because if not then people would cry out in pvp.

dsalter · November 2022

Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »

Imo the only changes vampire needs is to either reduce or completely remove the ability increase penalty, and make drain an actually useful ability, like a dot or a gap closer.

increase drain to 10 seconds, make it a tether.
suddenly way better.
improve the vampire sets along with reduce the non-vampire ability cost scaling and vampire will be in a good spot without being broken.

then its just making werewolves more viable

Zastrix · November 2022

So while I am up for changes to vampirism because the skills are currently god-awful, I'm not really for some of these changes. A few points are okay:

Vampiric drain imho can be a tethered skill but only if it had execute scaling like how the templar exec does
Evsicerate
I'd prefer for the base skill to be a stamina skill in melee range. Do either physical or bleed damage.
* Blood for Blood also okay currently but maybe remove the "can't be healed" and add something like a self-dot and self-major defile
* Arterial burst is okay, just make it long-range
Blood Frenzy is only sometimes... kinda? used in PvP so you could remove it tbh, it doesn't provide good benefits anymore. I love your idea with a summon so that should be instead of this.
Love the idea of bat swarm, make it a bleed damage AOE which either follows you or you can place on ground
Mist form as you said is completely fine
Mesmerize is purely a role-play skill. In PvP in most cases just doesn't work correctly. I'd rather put it as a passive option like how you have with the 2 guild lines