Pleas don't nerf Dark Convergence just because players don't like how it operates in PVP.

daemondamian

I'm not a PVPer and do IC dailies and Cyrodiil quests mostly in stealth and try to avoid enemy players but I thought I'd jump on the bandwagon and test out DC and Hrothgars together more as a defensive set against gankers and monster mobs..

I had mixed success with the combo (only used it on 3 of my 13 characters) and decided to try it out in normal Dragonstar Arena (solo) which I'd tried quite some ago but couldn't get past one of the rounds.

I can't say if it was solely due to Dark Convergence itself or the fact that I had Bastian tanking for me, & different setups (skills & equipment) than what I'd tried previously but DA now seems easier than normal Malestrom is and other 'harder' content to solo.

I've since changed the setup to Spinners with DC since Hrothgars got nerfed but I've been trying to complete DA at least once a day (despite the fact RNG will be better) before the next patch because I want the Master's Inferno staff and am afraid without DC as it is now I won't be able to farm it solo anymore.

Yes DC seems OP especially if solo against more than one enemy player running it and I haven't died to it that many times but does it really need extra nerfing just because of how it functions in PVP?

I have been caught in DC before where I either blocked or dodgerolled and then escaped - I know it isn't always possible to counteract it but I wish they could separate or alter it's function in PVP versus PVE; it's a double whanmy - new sets come in so old ones get nerfed and also new sets get deemed too OP for PVP and get nerfed.

I haven't tried DC in other PVE content yet but I'm sure it would help when soloing other content too.

Marcus_Aurelius

DC was thought as a pvp set, the fact that is also overpowered in PvE is another reason to remove that abomination from a game.

Farming DSA alone is just a bad idea, 4 people, 4 loot dropping. You can exchange them.
Just ask in Craglorn if you are not in guilds.

MashmalloMan

It should be even better for pve anyway.. the damage scaling is 50% instead of 10%, it's very easy for mobs to be stacked, not out of the aoe, and be in high quantities of 5-10 at a time.

And yeah.. it's meant for pvp, so it should be adjusted based on the fact that it's ruining pvp, no one cares about how quick you can kill trash mobs when pvp feels so much worse with this set existing in the game. It's basically a 300 cost ultimate (that doesn't currently exist) on a 15s cooldown that you can combo with your actual ultimate and/or skills.

Lets do some basic math:

Start with a 12k tooltip, very easily obtainable.

I'm not sure if the first target counts towards the multiplier, but if it's handled like proxy det, odds are it does.

Live (brackets are total including 3m aoe blast):

• 0 = 12k (36k)
• 1 = 13.2k (39.6k)
• 2 = 14.4k (43.2k)
• 3 = 15.6k (46.8k)
• 4 = 16.8k (50.4k
• 5 = 18k (54k)
• 6 = 19.2k (57.6k)

PTS:
12k * 0.41 = 4920

• 0 = 4.9k (14.7k)
• 1= 7.35k (22k)
• 2 = 9.8k (29.4k)
• 3 = 12.25k (36.75k)
• 4 = 14.7k (44.1k)
• 5 = 17.15k (51.45k)
• 6 = 19.6k (58.8k) (Edit: Capped, doesn't scale any higher than 6)

So basically before 6 targets, nerf, at, the same.

karekiz

Met two or three healers using it now as a tank. Please ZoS Nerf it to hell. Half of these guys make mobs CC immune, don't know how to stack, and its purely annoying.


One guy defended it because "It clears trash fast." - No resource sets, no buff sets, and just droped an aoe then randomly LA's to "help". It was funny tanking in Moongrave and just tanking 6 ghosts + Boss off in a corner and the healer randomly chaining 6-8 mobs on top of himself though.

techyeshic

Kind of a weird argument for not nerfing it.

"Please don't nerf it. It's so powerful for me in PVE that it allows me to finish content I couldn't do before"

coop500

techyeshic wrote: »

Kind of a weird argument for not nerfing it.

"Please don't nerf it. It's so powerful for me in PVE that it allows me to finish content I couldn't do before"

LOL yeah... Sadly I think this post will get it nerfed faster.
I'm generally against nerfs but ngl it sounds like this set does need some adjustments if it's this powerful both for PVP and PVE.

Jameson18

We legit vote kick randos from the dungeon finder or pug groups we put together when we see the set in use.

Not all of them, but most of the people so far that so adamantly promote the use of the set are, in my crew's opinion; Trolls. Whom deserve to be treated as such.

Even though; It's primarily ZOS's fault for putting the set in the game. - I've seen some grievous errors on games over the many years of playing, but this one's pretty up there. Kinda takes the cake.

Vevvev

It's a PvP set acquired in PvP, and it was designed to solve a PvP problem meaning it should be nerfed because of PvP. Sorry, but it's not a PvE set and never will be as long as it's acquired via Rewards of the Worthy.

coop500

Vevvev wrote: »

It's a PvP set acquired in PvP, and it was designed to solve a PvP problem meaning it should be nerfed because of PvP. Sorry, but it's not a PvE set and never will be as long as it's acquired via Rewards of the Worthy.

It's even overpowered in PVE too so yeah, for once I agree, nerf it

Aldoss

daemondamian wrote: »

but does it really need extra nerfing just because of how it functions in PVP?

Yes.

SidraWillowsky

A set should not be the sole reason for your being able to do something you wouldn't otherwise be able to do without it, be in content in PvE *or* PvP. There are certainly some "crutch" sets in the game, but DC goes way beyond that.

Also, as others have said, it's a 100% PvP-sourced and designed set, so it really needs to be adjusted with the needs of PvPers in mind first.

daemondamian

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

DC was thought as a pvp set, the fact that is also overpowered in PvE is another reason to remove that abomination from a game.

Farming DSA alone is just a bad idea, 4 people, 4 loot dropping. You can exchange them.
Just ask in Craglorn if you are not in guilds.

Okay thanks for the tip - would I be better off asking as a healer than dps?

daemondamian

MashmalloMan wrote: »

It should be even better for pve anyway.. the damage scaling is 50% instead of 10%, it's very easy for mobs to be stacked, not out of the aoe, and be in high quantities of 5-10 at a time.
- - -

So basically before 6 targets, nerf, after, buff. This is a pve buff for sure.

Thanks this is good to know - hopefully I can still use DC to solo and farm harder content.

daemondamian

karekiz wrote: »

Met two or three healers using it now as a tank. Please ZoS Nerf it to hell. Half of these guys make mobs CC immune, don't know how to stack, and its purely annoying.


One guy defended it because "It clears trash fast." - No resource sets, no buff sets, and just droped an aoe then randomly LA's to "help". It was funny tanking in Moongrave and just tanking 6 ghosts + Boss off in a corner and the healer randomly chaining 6-8 mobs on top of himself though.

As a healer (on 6 char) I wouldn't use it in group content.

daemondamian

techyeshic wrote: »

Kind of a weird argument for not nerfing it.

"Please don't nerf it. It's so powerful for me in PVE that it allows me to finish content I couldn't do before"

So by that logic should I not be using a companion, ring of the pale order, thrassians (before the nerf) or any other powerful new set or mythic or game feature that gets introduced that allows me to complete content I couldn't before or should I just accept I only get to use it for the limited time it is powerful and that it might get nerfed at any point?

daemondamian

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

A set should not be the sole reason for your being able to do something you wouldn't otherwise be able to do without it, be in content in PvE *or* PvP. There are certainly some "crutch" sets in the game, but DC goes way beyond that.

Also, as others have said, it's a 100% PvP-sourced and designed set, so it really needs to be adjusted with the needs of PvPers in mind first.

I was also using Bastian and ring of the pale order - are they also considered a crutch? If not why?

If I pay for a game shouldn't I be allowed to use anything that is available in the game if I can acquire it?

PVE sets get redesigned/nerfed continuously for PVP reasons - why is that okay but not the other way around?

ealdwin

daemondamian wrote: »

techyeshic wrote: »

Kind of a weird argument for not nerfing it.

"Please don't nerf it. It's so powerful for me in PVE that it allows me to finish content I couldn't do before"

So by that logic should I not be using a companion, ring of the pale order, thrassians (before the nerf) or any other powerful new set or mythic or game feature that gets introduced that allows me to complete content I couldn't before or should I just accept I only get to use it for the limited time it is powerful and that it might get nerfed at any point?

daemondamian wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

A set should not be the sole reason for your being able to do something you wouldn't otherwise be able to do without it, be in content in PvE *or* PvP. There are certainly some "crutch" sets in the game, but DC goes way beyond that.

Also, as others have said, it's a 100% PvP-sourced and designed set, so it really needs to be adjusted with the needs of PvPers in mind first.

I was also using Bastian and ring of the pale order - are they also considered a crutch? If not why?

If I pay for a game shouldn't I be allowed to use anything that is available in the game if I can acquire it?

PVE sets get redesigned/nerfed continuously for PVP reasons - why is that okay but not the other way around?

The difference between DC and Pale Order, Companions, etc. is that the latter were primarily designed for the purpose of helping players complete content alone that they might not have previously been able to complete alone. DC on the other hand was not designed for that purpose. It was designed with a PVP purpose in mind, not a solo PVE one. The effect it has on solo PVE is just a happy side effect of the sheer amount of power budgeted to the set. Nerfing the set due to PVP would be nerfing it because of the reason for which it was created—because it has caused problems in the realm it was designed for.

Now they could change it so that the set only affects non-player enemies. This would absolutely kill it in PVP (fine by me), leaving it solely of use in PVE. In that case, any further nerfs that happened to it would be due to PVE reasons.

If they [ZOS] want to keep it available for PVP though, then something needs to go—the set simply has too much power budgeted to it considering it is a set. Either keep the pull and get rid of everything else, or get rid of the pull and keep everything else.

Gilvoth

reading the comments in this thread gives the impression that anyone using the set needs to be ashamed and feel bad, but that is just not reality.
theres nothing wrong with using this set in both pvp and pve.
the set was made because we asked for help to stop zergs and hoards of people blobbing together, the set works good and doing its job.
the set was made to stop zergs and huge groups that are cause massive lagg, high ping, and destroying the pvp in cryodiil.
the set needs buffed, not nerfed.
it needs to stay.

SidraWillowsky

daemondamian wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

A set should not be the sole reason for your being able to do something you wouldn't otherwise be able to do without it, be in content in PvE *or* PvP. There are certainly some "crutch" sets in the game, but DC goes way beyond that.

Also, as others have said, it's a 100% PvP-sourced and designed set, so it really needs to be adjusted with the needs of PvPers in mind first.

I was also using Bastian and ring of the pale order - are they also considered a crutch? If not why?

If I pay for a game shouldn't I be allowed to use anything that is available in the game if I can acquire it?

PVE sets get redesigned/nerfed continuously for PVP reasons - why is that okay but not the other way around?

I'm not saying it's OK to nerf PvE sets for the sake of PvP-- there are few things in the game I find more annoying than that. It absolutely goes both ways; I'd be angry if ZOS decided to nerf, say, Relequen because for whatever reason it was OP in PvP. Anyway, in this case, they *need* to nerf a PvP set for the sake of PvP. If a set is singlehandedly destroying any semblance of balance in the game mode that it was designed for, it needs to be changed.

I'm also absolutely not saying that you shouldn't be able to use anything the game offers-- I'm truly sorry if I came off as shaming anyone; that wasn't my intent. My point was that if a single set is obliterating the balance and enjoyment in the game mode that it was designed for and is merely a nice QoL set in the other, it needs to be adjusted solely based on what it's doing for the former (aka PvP in this case). I'd have a different opinion if it was a set sourced from something more neutral like overworld, I'd have something different to say, but this is a PvP set and should be balanced as such.

Jman100582

Gilvoth wrote: »

reading the comments in this thread gives the impression that anyone using the set needs to be ashamed and feel bad, but that is just not reality.
theres nothing wrong with using this set in both pvp and pve.
the set was made because we asked for help to stop zergs and hoards of people blobbing together, the set works good and doing its job.
the set was made to stop zergs and huge groups that are cause massive lagg, high ping, and destroying the pvp in cryodiil.
the set needs buffed, not nerfed.
it needs to stay.

um...what? This set is literally ruining pvp for everybody that I have talked to. Big zergs, small groups, solo pvpers, bgers. EVERYBODY that I talked to is frustrated with this set. It does not deserve a buff. IT's the worse in bgs, as people are using it to chain you into environmental dmg that just one taps you...that's literally abuse/exploiting. This set has done nothing but make pvp a pain, and turns it into a game of ping pong where you get constantly pulled between one proc and another proc. It does not deserve to stay in its current iteration

Vevvev

Jman100582 wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

reading the comments in this thread gives the impression that anyone using the set needs to be ashamed and feel bad, but that is just not reality.
theres nothing wrong with using this set in both pvp and pve.
the set was made because we asked for help to stop zergs and hoards of people blobbing together, the set works good and doing its job.
the set was made to stop zergs and huge groups that are cause massive lagg, high ping, and destroying the pvp in cryodiil.
the set needs buffed, not nerfed.
it needs to stay.

um...what? This set is literally ruining pvp for everybody that I have talked to. Big zergs, small groups, solo pvpers, bgers. EVERYBODY that I talked to is frustrated with this set. It does not deserve a buff. IT's the worse in bgs, as people are using it to chain you into environmental dmg that just one taps you...that's literally abuse/exploiting. This set has done nothing but make pvp a pain, and turns it into a game of ping pong where you get constantly pulled between one proc and another proc. It does not deserve to stay in its current iteration

Agreed, it's become a pain and I hate it when it's used in conjunction with cliffs, lava, and siege weapons. I only equip it when I pretty much have no choice due to the enemy force abusing it, and it just feels so dirty to use.

Last night the Covenant (my side) was only 2 bar pop going up against pop locked AD and EP. We couldn't reclaim lost territory until we got organized and started hitting areas together. Dark Convergence played a big part in our assaults, and I felt bad after clearing out what were very excellently set up defensive fortifications with it.

TeruKisuke

I'm primarily PVE, but the one time I went to Cyro right after Dark Convergence became a thing, my friend and I ran into a ball group of necros who had a templar healer. DC procs with Colossus and Graveyard, but it also procs with healing circles too. The moment we were sucked in, it was pretty much instant death, and because the pull proc'd twice, you couldn't roll out so there's no escape from CC. They camped a resource tower and even coming close meant death.

Since then I haven't returned to Cyro. It's not worth the wrist pain just to go against this absurd meta. But one thing's for sure: I have no incentive to go back there when everyone's running that set. And, as with all games, if people are using only one set above all others, that is a statistical issue. Even PVE has meta sets with some variants.

daemondamian wrote: »

karekiz wrote: »

Met two or three healers using it now as a tank. Please ZoS Nerf it to hell. Half of these guys make mobs CC immune, don't know how to stack, and its purely annoying.


One guy defended it because "It clears trash fast." - No resource sets, no buff sets, and just droped an aoe then randomly LA's to "help". It was funny tanking in Moongrave and just tanking 6 ghosts + Boss off in a corner and the healer randomly chaining 6-8 mobs on top of himself though.

As a healer (on 6 char) I wouldn't use it in group content.

Don't be naive. Just because *you* wouldn't use it in PvE group content, doesn't mean others won't. That is the whole issue in the first place. As the above literally stated, it is making life hell for tanks.

There's other sets in this game you could be using to solo content anyways, so you don't have to defend the set this hard. Companions come nowhere near the damage an actual player does yet take a player slot, and they aren't allowed in solo arenas. Mythic items are locked to one and offset the 5-5-2 set combination. At least they promote more set variance than a 5-set, which Zenimax enjoys because they want to see people not use 5-5-2 as much. And I really don't have to say anything about Thrassians lmao.

As someone who also plays Overwatch occasionally, Graviton Surge was the ult that reigned as queen for a long time. It pulls people in, and other players can combo their ults to decimate the enemy team. But at least there, they have to use an ult. There are other characters like Orisa who can do so, but it's on a decent cooldown, doesn't CC as hard, is predictable to see coming and slow, and there can only be one Orisa per team, granted that you aren't playing some unlimited Arcade mode. My point being, this set is like an ultimate ability but on a 15 second cooldown and can be done by several people to ensure nobody escapes. So, whose idea was it to bring Graviton Surge into this game that can be casually activated? I dunno.

Kwoung

TeruKisuke wrote: »

So, whose idea was it to bring Graviton Surge into this game that can be casually activated? I dunno.

Basically... All the people whining about ball groups & zergs. The sense of entitlement in this game is beyond the pale... if I can't take down 12-100 players solo, the game must be broken, give me a set that allows me to do so!

TeruKisuke

Kwoung wrote: »

TeruKisuke wrote: »

So, whose idea was it to bring Graviton Surge into this game that can be casually activated? I dunno.

Basically... All the people whining about ball groups & zergs. The sense of entitlement in this game is beyond the pale... if I can't take down 12-100 players solo, the game must be broken, give me a set that allows me to do so!

That's my main complaint in regards to PvP. No one man should be able to take on ten people at once unless they're just that bad. Bombers are a big deterrent for me. There was a time where you'd look at the leaderboards and see the top people in campaigns were usually Nightblades, and the character names even brag in some way or another about being some bomber god.

The server lag is the result of populated servers. Cyro allows a far broader capacity of people, but back in Warcraft in Alterac Valley it allowed only 40 per side as the biggest. The Three Banners War sounds fun on paper, but allowing hundreds of people in a confined area at once using abilities would crash any game. If we had some magical set that could make it so that people Social Distance'd in Cyro, people would simply not bring their friends and nobody would play Cyro. "Zergs" are just networking between guilds, friends, or grouped randoms, yet people have made them out to be some kind of unexplainable non-sentient alien force like in StarCraft?

So, the solution becomes either stronger servers, dead/unpopulated servers, or just not playing it at all. And I go into Cyro once in a blue moon, so that was my decision.

Jackey

Please don't nerf Dark Convergence, just remove it from the game.

Vizirith

It was the most overloaded set they've ever added to the game. All pulls from sets/abilities cause cc immunity. Except dark convergence. Oh and it's aoe. And it pulls twice. And it has the 2nd highest aoe snare in the game behind dk's ash cloud, which is a joke in pvp and is only 5m. And it deals 1.7 times the scaling damage of vicious death. And it scales off number of enemies hit. And it only has a 15 second cooldown. And it has a very consistent proc application.

I remember the days when NMA, sload's and wings were all that was complained about. Good times.

DrSlaughtr

It's really fun on a necro tank emp. Watch a 12 man own the map against 3 bars because the dude can drop a colossus every 8 seconds with dark convergence.

Urzigurumash

TheEndBringer wrote: »

It's really fun on a necro tank emp. Watch a 12 man own the map against 3 bars because the dude can drop a colossus every 8 seconds with dark convergence.

In a strange twist it's made playing the map more relevant than it's been in a long time, since having a ConvergeCro as Emp should be each and every player's only concern.

DrSlaughtr

Urzigurumash wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

It's really fun on a necro tank emp. Watch a 12 man own the map against 3 bars because the dude can drop a colossus every 8 seconds with dark convergence.

In a strange twist it's made playing the map more relevant than it's been in a long time, since having a ConvergeCro as Emp should be each and every player's only concern.

Yeah but the problem is dethroning when that Necro tank DC emp is on is a massive undertaking. Especially when the dude has no life and plays 16 hours a day. 😆

RevJJ

Jackey wrote: »

Please don't nerf Dark Convergence, just remove it from the game.

^ this. Introducing this set was a mistake. Either that or it’s meant to turn away even more people from pvp so that ZOS can say “oh wow nobody wants to play pvp anymore, guess we can make Cyrodiil PVE”.

Urzigurumash

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

It's really fun on a necro tank emp. Watch a 12 man own the map against 3 bars because the dude can drop a colossus every 8 seconds with dark convergence.

In a strange twist it's made playing the map more relevant than it's been in a long time, since having a ConvergeCro as Emp should be each and every player's only concern.

Yeah but the problem is dethroning when that Necro tank DC emp is on is a massive undertaking.

Tell me about it, are you on Xbox NA? Probably this is what's happening on every server.