Pleas don't nerf Dark Convergence just because players don't like how it operates in PVP.

Tannus15

Anything which essentially breaks part of the game should be fixed. I'm not even going to call it a nerf at this point. Literally everyone says the set is toxic trash except for a few people who i quote "i love it, i was terrible at bg's until i get this set and now i'm getting heaps of kills"

peacenote

1. Mist form was not being used "as intended" in PvE and now it's essentially useless. This means it's likely that at some point, if ZoS sees DC all over PvE, it will be addressed and I suspect you will not like what happens. So don't get your hopes up...
2. This mess of a set (my own personal opinion of course) was introduced to attempt to solve an issue in PvP. This has even been explicitly stated I believe. Unintended "benefits" in PvE are not a good reason to keep it around or as-is if it hasn't done what it needed to do in PvP.
3. Speaking as someone who, when PvPing, does not join organized ball groups (I have no hidden motive I promise), I HATE this set. I hate being constantly pulled off my path. I also hate how boring PvP is right now because it's everywhere. I applaud ZoS for trying something creative, at least, but imo even if this solves anything it's one of those "the-treatment-is-worse-than-the-cure" situations for me.
4. I haven't yet personally experienced what folks are saying about tanks, DC, and dungeons but I also tank and I can imagine it just from knowing about this set. Sounds awful.

Besides performance issues, I generally never stressed about any of the "OP" sets or builds. I'd run into them but I'd still have fun. However with DC I actively enjoy PvP a LOT LESS. To me it's not even a balance thing - it's just playing while constantly being pulled and disrupted IS NOT FUN. Maybe it should be nerfed like the Pale Order ring was - it can only pull in people who are in a group of 12 and also all people in the group share a common guild, therefore punishing organized ball groups while being less disruptive to people who never played like that to begin with..... :P

DrSlaughtr

Urzigurumash wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

It's really fun on a necro tank emp. Watch a 12 man own the map against 3 bars because the dude can drop a colossus every 8 seconds with dark convergence.

In a strange twist it's made playing the map more relevant than it's been in a long time, since having a ConvergeCro as Emp should be each and every player's only concern.

Yeah but the problem is dethroning when that Necro tank DC emp is on is a massive undertaking.

Tell me about it, are you on Xbox NA? Probably this is what's happening on every server.

You know it.

I don't blame anyone for using any set or mechanic allowable in the game but everyone knows it's cheese.

Urzigurumash

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

It's really fun on a necro tank emp. Watch a 12 man own the map against 3 bars because the dude can drop a colossus every 8 seconds with dark convergence.

In a strange twist it's made playing the map more relevant than it's been in a long time, since having a ConvergeCro as Emp should be each and every player's only concern.

Yeah but the problem is dethroning when that Necro tank DC emp is on is a massive undertaking.

Tell me about it, are you on Xbox NA? Probably this is what's happening on every server.

You know it.

I don't blame anyone for using any set or mechanic allowable in the game but everyone knows it's cheese.

No I don't blame them at all, and if they're using the cheese in a way that furthers their Alliance's map score, I commend them for dutifully serving their faction. Plenty of the 5 stars out there now using DC were also wrecking the opposition during No Proc, but at least then it was all just about stacking Blastbones/Sub Assault with Dawny, rather than a specific proc set.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't have fun during the Saturday siege of Ash, unfortunately I wasn't on for whenever the Deposal happened. I don't mind cheese being part of the game, but I prefer a variety of flavors leaving some remotely equivalent impression on the palate.

Vizirith

Urzigurumash wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

It's really fun on a necro tank emp. Watch a 12 man own the map against 3 bars because the dude can drop a colossus every 8 seconds with dark convergence.

In a strange twist it's made playing the map more relevant than it's been in a long time, since having a ConvergeCro as Emp should be each and every player's only concern.

Yeah but the problem is dethroning when that Necro tank DC emp is on is a massive undertaking.

Tell me about it, are you on Xbox NA? Probably this is what's happening on every server.

You know it.

I don't blame anyone for using any set or mechanic allowable in the game but everyone knows it's cheese.

No I don't blame them at all, and if they're using the cheese in a way that furthers their Alliance's map score, I commend them for dutifully serving their faction. Plenty of the 5 stars out there now using DC were also wrecking the opposition during No Proc, but at least then it was all just about stacking Blastbones/Sub Assault with Dawny, rather than a specific proc set.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't have fun during the Saturday siege of Ash, unfortunately I wasn't on for whenever the Deposal happened. I don't mind cheese being part of the game, but I prefer a variety of flavors leaving some remotely equivalent impression on the palate.

I prefer there to be some semblance of balance, but who am I kidding.

DrSlaughtr

Urzigurumash wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

It's really fun on a necro tank emp. Watch a 12 man own the map against 3 bars because the dude can drop a colossus every 8 seconds with dark convergence.

In a strange twist it's made playing the map more relevant than it's been in a long time, since having a ConvergeCro as Emp should be each and every player's only concern.

Yeah but the problem is dethroning when that Necro tank DC emp is on is a massive undertaking.

Tell me about it, are you on Xbox NA? Probably this is what's happening on every server.

You know it.

I don't blame anyone for using any set or mechanic allowable in the game but everyone knows it's cheese.

No I don't blame them at all, and if they're using the cheese in a way that furthers their Alliance's map score, I commend them for dutifully serving their faction. Plenty of the 5 stars out there now using DC were also wrecking the opposition during No Proc, but at least then it was all just about stacking Blastbones/Sub Assault with Dawny, rather than a specific proc set.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't have fun during the Saturday siege of Ash, unfortunately I wasn't on for whenever the Deposal happened. I don't mind cheese being part of the game, but I prefer a variety of flavors leaving some remotely equivalent impression on the palate.

When you look at all 3 leaderboards and know that about half of all of them are running one proc damage set, you know there's an issue.

But it's a problem with the set. Can't blame players for enjoying killing other players.

But, see you brought up no proc, I much prefer people having to use multiple skills to kill people than just dropping one aoe.

taugrim

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

DC was thought as a pvp set, the fact that is also overpowered in PvE is another reason to remove that abomination from a game.

Agreed with the above.

techyeshic wrote: »

Kind of a weird argument for not nerfing it.

"Please don't nerf it. It's so powerful for me in PVE that it allows me to finish content I couldn't do before"

^ This, so much.

Gilvoth wrote: »

the set was made because we asked for help to stop zergs and hoards of people blobbing together, the set works good and doing its job.
the set was made to stop zergs and huge groups that are cause massive lagg, high ping, and destroying the pvp in cryodiil.
the set needs buffed, not nerfed.
it needs to stay.

So you're pretty much wrong on all points.

1. there has never been an instance in any 3-faction game (or even 2-faction) where a gear set solved the problem of one side being outnumbered by the other

2. most well-designed games have an incentive mechanic that rewards and can even boost the side which is weaker, making it easy to take back some objectives in the World PVP map. LOTRO did this in the Moors by making it progressively more difficult to control the 5 keeps on the map

3. no set in the game was designed to fix the massive lag. That's a server / client code issue. I find it baffling that a player would claim that lag would be fixed by a gear set. It's nonsensical. Other games implement players-in-the-zone caps to avoid having too many players in the same zone.

You can argue it should stay, but IMO the damage has been done.

Many PVP players left ESO with a very bad taste in their mouth, courtesy of broken Hrothgar's Chill and Dark Convergence.

I tried sticking around for the first 2 weeks after that other game launched, but eventually got so fed up I decided to make the one-time purchase to try the other game. I'm now spending 99% of my gaming time there am only logging in to ESO to check sales on the Guild Trader.

There's a high likelihood I'll cancel my ESO sub by this weekend, after 15 consecutive months of having it, simply because I don't want to reward incredibly poor game design and a critical mass of skilled PVP players has already left ESO in the past 7 weeks.

This is enormously frustrating as I used to tell people that ESO was the best MMORPG that I've played in the past 15 years. Well, that was the case prior to HC and DC being introduced into the game in late August. ESO PVP went from being loads of fun - especially in BGs - to a very unenjoyable experience.

Such a shame. It's too late to undo a lot of the damage IMO. Had ZoS taken action weeks ago, this state could have been averted.

daemondamian

Thanks for all the further replies.


I switched to using Daring Corsair, Bog Raider (5 impen & 2 well fitted)
a resto staff of the Potentates and a Vateshran inferno staff (testing a PVP build) and was able to complete nDSA comfortably.

So DC wasn't the sole reason as to why I was able to complete nDSA when I couldn't before.

divnyi

peacenote wrote: »

Maybe it should be nerfed like the Pale Order ring was - it can only pull in people who are in a group of 12 and also all people in the group share a common guild, therefore punishing organized ball groups while being less disruptive to people who never played like that to begin with..... :P

Ayy lmao it will surely nerf some of us with BG guilds, even in soloQ

Elo106

peacenote wrote: »

Maybe it should be nerfed like the Pale Order ring was - it can only pull in people who are in a group of 12 and also all people in the group share a common guild, therefore punishing organized ball groups while being less disruptive to people who never played like that to begin with..... :P

Wont work, ball groups would just run 11 people and not be in the same guild.
Ball groups can not be "fixed" with sets, only thing that would hurt them is heals of the same name not stacking (only the strongest one works), even then they would adapt and run different heals. Of course no one wants that cause it would hurt the Zergs.

Why do people see ball groups as a problem but faction stack zergs are not an issue?

peacenote

Elo106 wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

Maybe it should be nerfed like the Pale Order ring was - it can only pull in people who are in a group of 12 and also all people in the group share a common guild, therefore punishing organized ball groups while being less disruptive to people who never played like that to begin with..... :P

Wont work, ball groups would just run 11 people and not be in the same guild.
Ball groups can not be "fixed" with sets, only thing that would hurt them is heals of the same name not stacking (only the strongest one works), even then they would adapt and run different heals. Of course no one wants that cause it would hurt the Zergs.

Why do people see ball groups as a problem but faction stack zergs are not an issue?

Hehe I was mostly kidding to make a point. I'm sure that kind of calculation before a set could fire would break everything.

All I can say is I never felt the need to say anything on the forums about ball groups OR faction stacks amd enjoyed PvP just fine with their existence but I'm very unhappy with DC.

The_Wunderboy

daemondamian wrote: »

Thanks for all the further replies.


I switched to using Daring Corsair, Bog Raider (5 impen & 2 well fitted)
a resto staff of the Potentates and a Vateshran inferno staff (testing a PVP build) and was able to complete nDSA comfortably.

So DC wasn't the sole reason as to why I was able to complete nDSA when I couldn't before.

Congrats on getting better, now please let DC die since you've moved on. So annoying in BG's. O.o

Urzigurumash

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

It's really fun on a necro tank emp. Watch a 12 man own the map against 3 bars because the dude can drop a colossus every 8 seconds with dark convergence.

In a strange twist it's made playing the map more relevant than it's been in a long time, since having a ConvergeCro as Emp should be each and every player's only concern.

Yeah but the problem is dethroning when that Necro tank DC emp is on is a massive undertaking.

Tell me about it, are you on Xbox NA? Probably this is what's happening on every server.

You know it.

I don't blame anyone for using any set or mechanic allowable in the game but everyone knows it's cheese.

No I don't blame them at all, and if they're using the cheese in a way that furthers their Alliance's map score, I commend them for dutifully serving their faction. Plenty of the 5 stars out there now using DC were also wrecking the opposition during No Proc, but at least then it was all just about stacking Blastbones/Sub Assault with Dawny, rather than a specific proc set.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't have fun during the Saturday siege of Ash, unfortunately I wasn't on for whenever the Deposal happened. I don't mind cheese being part of the game, but I prefer a variety of flavors leaving some remotely equivalent impression on the palate.

When you look at all 3 leaderboards and know that about half of all of them are running one proc damage set, you know there's an issue.

But it's a problem with the set. Can't blame players for enjoying killing other players.

But, see you brought up no proc, I much prefer people having to use multiple skills to kill people than just dropping one aoe.

No disagreement there. Minus Balorgh, my most competitive setup works in RW. Yet, I still repeatedly go to GH.

GetAgrippa

Dark Convergence is an absolute joke in BGs. It's worse than the old bashcro. People proc it in lava. They stack it. People get yoyoed around. It's completely disrupted the flow of combat more than anything I've seen in BGs before. I see stamdens wearing DC and Vicious Death. Caltrops, Dark Convergence, sub assault, spin2win and you wipe a group of 4 easy. Don't even need dawnbreaker. At least the old Bashcro wouldn't PULL YOU IN. I've been in bgs where there are 6 different players wearing it. It's ridiculous. So I'm sorry, but please don't go back on the nerf just because of pve. Us PvPers are having a miserable experience right now.

Nagastani

Yeah Dark Convergence has pretty much brought down PvP completely for me. I have no desire to go back there and deal with that. Especially the constant abuse of the set pulling people off walls, pulling people from battle lines. There's no reason for me to PvP as long as DC is part of the game. I mean literally how would you? This set doesn't belong in PvP.

It's ironic that PvE folks want to keep it, I don't have an issue with that or for it being used in Battlegrounds maybe but the problem is the set was originally intended for PvP, as a PvP set, not to mention the fact it's so over powered it's comical. I think this thing alone has done more damage to the game than they realize.

The_Wunderboy

It's now being run in under 50 BGs consistently, so take that n00bs.

neferpitou73

I'm pretty sure this is the 8th or 9th "nerf DC" thread I've seen on the forums.

ZOS have you gotten the message yet? Noone likes this set.

spacefracking

In pvp, the problem is less how much damage it does, and more that it's possible to place it so it sucks people off the walls in cyrodiil, dropping them on the ground. This breaks the entire concept of siege combat, and it's truly amazing it hasn't been addressed. I don't pvp anymore. Gg

Giraffon

This is easily the worst set they have created in the entire history of ESO and I've been here the whole time. I have never been this vocal about a bad set before, but this one needs to just be removed from the game completely. WTH were they thinking?

Bl4ckR3alm93

Giraffon wrote: »

This is easily the worst set they have created in the entire history of ESO and I've been here the whole time. I have never been this vocal about a bad set before, but this one needs to just be removed from the game completely. WTH were they thinking?

The sad part is that the Community has been asking for a set like this to combat bombers and zergs lol. Might have not been the people on this thread im sure but other people have. Look at some of the threads that say "Don't nerf this DC"

Giraffon

Someone in another thread suggested that the pull only affect NPCs and not players. I would be okay with that change. That would restore balance. The pull is horrible. It disrupts rotations and makes you a sitting duck for groups to stack ultimates on you.

Bl4ckR3alm93

Giraffon wrote: »

Someone in another thread suggested that the pull only affect NPCs and not players. I would be okay with that change. That would restore balance. The pull is horrible. It disrupts rotations and makes you a sitting duck for groups to stack ultimates on you.

Thats actually not a bad idea

DrSlaughtr

Bl4ckR3alm93 wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

This is easily the worst set they have created in the entire history of ESO and I've been here the whole time. I have never been this vocal about a bad set before, but this one needs to just be removed from the game completely. WTH were they thinking?

The sad part is that the Community has been asking for a set like this to combat bombers and zergs lol. Might have not been the people on this thread im sure but other people have. Look at some of the threads that say "Don't nerf this DC"

There were plenty of people warning against a buster set, including myself, for the simple fact that the zergs and comp groups would also use it. I don't blame the players for not seeing that far down the road but how did no one raise their hand in a meeting and say "this is a bad idea and here's why."

It has competely messed up seiging. No one wants to put down lancers because all the good spots are vulnerable to a Necro dropping graveyards on the side of the wall.

JJOtterBear

I vote to keep DC. adapt and overcome guys.

Vevvev

JJOtterBear wrote: »

I vote to keep DC. adapt and overcome guys.

Many already have. It's easily countered when only one person uses it, but that's never the case in this game. Once something is meta expect it to be fielded in large numbers once the population has been thoroughly saturated with ownership of the set.

The_Wunderboy

JJOtterBear wrote: »

I vote to keep DC. adapt and overcome guys.

Vevvev wrote: »

JJOtterBear wrote: »

I vote to keep DC. adapt and overcome guys.

Many already have. It's easily countered when only one person uses it, but that's never the case in this game. Once something is meta expect it to be fielded in large numbers once the population has been thoroughly saturated with ownership of the set.

This. I've seen veteran users using reconstruction/lowbie farming to get full sets of DC for under 50 BGs. It's bad enough you have super tweaked characters vs newbs usually. Throw in DC and it will keep new players from ever wanting to Pvp again. [snip]

[edited for conspiracy theory]

SeaUnicorn

You can easily solo nDSA ROPO+FGD. If you want help chaining ads just get Bastian to do it for you. Not being complete content designed for a group solo is definitely a weak argument in favor of a broken set that makes PVP very un-enjoyable mess.

SeaUnicorn

GetAgrippa wrote: »

Dark Convergence is an absolute joke in BGs. It's worse than the old bashcro. People proc it in lava. They stack it. People get yoyoed around. It's completely disrupted the flow of combat more than anything I've seen in BGs before. I see stamdens wearing DC and Vicious Death. Caltrops, Dark Convergence, sub assault, spin2win and you wipe a group of 4 easy. Don't even need dawnbreaker. At least the old Bashcro wouldn't PULL YOU IN. I've been in bgs where there are 6 different players wearing it. It's ridiculous. So I'm sorry, but please don't go back on the nerf just because of pve. Us PvPers are having a miserable experience right now.

Nothing like porting into 3 venn diagrammed DCs in that Ayelid map. You can get pulled out of 1 DC into another, its so great. /sarcasm

CoronHR

don't nerf dc, make it ten times stronger...then remove it from the game immediately

Vevvev

CoronHR wrote: »

don't nerf dc, make it ten times stronger...then remove it from the game immediately

Had me in the beginning, not gonna lie lol.