Must remove proc pull from Dark Convergence and game entirely to restore normal PvP game play

EdmondDontes

PvP has been totally disrupted by the Dark Convergence set. So long as the set proc pulls people all over the place PvP will be a miserable experience.

No set should ever proc pull. Not ever. Put simply, it's not a rational mechanice to add to PvP in any game. (that's why it's never been done before most likely)

The only way to fix Dark Convergence and restore playability to PvP is to remove the proc pull mechanic from the game, not just from the Dark Convergence set.

The warden passive armor pull isn't a serious problem because it's not so disgustingly OP, but even that makes no sense.

Putting a set like Dark Convergence in the game makes the company look incompetent and openly hostile to the PvP components of the game. A proc pull is that outrageous of a mistake.

dinokstrunz

Yeah the pull of this set is the most deadly part of the set. The damage & the snare are just mere bonuses in comparison the power it has to pull in multiple targets. The damage & snare can stay as far as I'm concerned by the pull needs to be seriously checked. Way too powerful.

stefj68

maybe we could have a pvp area where sets are inneffective!

EdmondDontes

stefj68 wrote: »

maybe we could have a pvp area where sets are inneffective!

This response does not address the topic being discussed.

The problem is being janked around uncontrollably by multiple procs and not being able to do anything else in game as a result. This is a mechanic that should not be in the game.

EdmondDontes

Darn it. I should have made this a poll.

Do people think the proc pull from Dark Convergence should be removed?

Yes or No?

ealdwin

Yes.

(Alternatively remove everything but the pull)

kmcaj

No. Best set to date.

Vevvev

They changed it on the PTS to only pull a single time once it's up. Blocking the initial pull or using other forms of gaining CC immunity will make it so you can evade it more reliably.

Dark Convergence:
Reduced this set's damage by approximately 59% but increased the scaling per target to 50%, up from 10%.
Reduced the radius of the effect to 10 meters, down from 12.
This set now pulls once after its delay, rather than twice over its duration.
The pull now pulls all nearby targets rather than 6 per pull so that it remains effective against large groups.
This set now has new visual effects to help better define its radius attack sources and timing of the detonation.
Fixed an issue where this set could hit targets outside of its line of sight or pull them from areas they should not have been.
Fixed an issue where the ramping damage bonus from this set could fail against some targets in certain situations.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7395543/#Comment_7395543
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7403167/#Comment_7403167
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7409975/#Comment_7409975

Redguards_Revenge

kmcaj wrote: »

No. Best set to date.

Rofl my man here!

I don't like dark convergence....

It should be called septic convergence.

Every time anybody sees convergence go, they all run to it like they have diarhea and try to dump everything they have into it. Usually blowing their ulti out fast and hard to begin with.

jaws343

There are quite a few pulls in the game right now. Silver Leash, DK Chains, Necro skill, Vateshran sword and board, and now Rush of Agony and DC.

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with pulls, they just need to be more consistent and the range needs to be more telegraphed than it is right now.

Honestly, I actually find the Necro pull to be the most annoying. Chains and Leash have a telegraph and you can see when it hits you. DC has an AOE (that needs to be cleaned up to show more consistently for sure). But the Necro pull can hit you from a skill you fired off and forgot about. And it is incredibly difficult, and extremely unreasonable to avoid that proc from a Necro.

Xandreia_

jaws343 wrote: »

There are quite a few pulls in the game right now. Silver Leash, DK Chains, Necro skill, Vateshran sword and board, and now Rush of Agony and DC.

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with pulls, they just need to be more consistent and the range needs to be more telegraphed than it is right now.

Honestly, I actually find the Necro pull to be the most annoying. Chains and Leash have a telegraph and you can see when it hits you. DC has an AOE (that needs to be cleaned up to show more consistently for sure). But the Necro pull can hit you from a skill you fired off and forgot about. And it is incredibly difficult, and extremely unreasonable to avoid that proc from a Necro.

But not everyone is on a necro, using vate snb or silver leash, yet everyone and their granny is using DC! It's supposed to be a zerg busting set yet as a solo player I feel it's way too strong against solos and that's the problem, if it was used for the intended purpose it would be fine but I've had 6 people on me, each with DC on pulling me one after another, that's why it's broken, you can not solo pvp anymore because of 1 set. This game used to be so fun and I wouldn't play anything else if the server issues and DC were fixed, until they are I'm gone and so are a large chunk of the pvp community

EdmondDontes

jaws343 wrote: »

There are quite a few pulls in the game right now. Silver Leash, DK Chains, Necro skill, Vateshran sword and board, and now Rush of Agony and DC.

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with pulls, they just need to be more consistent and the range needs to be more telegraphed than it is right now.

Honestly, I actually find the Necro pull to be the most annoying. Chains and Leash have a telegraph and you can see when it hits you. DC has an AOE (that needs to be cleaned up to show more consistently for sure). But the Necro pull can hit you from a skill you fired off and forgot about. And it is incredibly difficult, and extremely unreasonable to avoid that proc from a Necro.

My point is there should be no passive or proc pull in game, and that includes the warden passive pull. That mechanic is irrational when put into practice in game. It's balance breaking in the extreme. it's an irrational mechanic on it's face.

A skill that pulls is a totally different thing. That is a fine mechanic. It's a skill you aim and fire. It takes resources, time and intention to make the pull happen.

A totally random proc pull that just janks players around all over the place is game breaking. You can't play and have fun when you're just being pinballed around all over the place and can't do anything else.

jaws343

Xandreia_ wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

There are quite a few pulls in the game right now. Silver Leash, DK Chains, Necro skill, Vateshran sword and board, and now Rush of Agony and DC.

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with pulls, they just need to be more consistent and the range needs to be more telegraphed than it is right now.

Honestly, I actually find the Necro pull to be the most annoying. Chains and Leash have a telegraph and you can see when it hits you. DC has an AOE (that needs to be cleaned up to show more consistently for sure). But the Necro pull can hit you from a skill you fired off and forgot about. And it is incredibly difficult, and extremely unreasonable to avoid that proc from a Necro.

But not everyone is on a necro, using vate snb or silver leash, yet everyone and their granny is using DC! It's supposed to be a zerg busting set yet as a solo player I feel it's way too strong against solos and that's the problem, if it was used for the intended purpose it would be fine but I've had 6 people on me, each with DC on pulling me one after another, that's why it's broken, you can not solo pvp anymore because of 1 set. This game used to be so fun and I wouldn't play anything else if the server issues and DC were fixed, until they are I'm gone and so are a large chunk of the pvp community

And they are adjusting the damage next patch to be less impactful against smaller amounts of targets.

DC really isn't that bad. Or not as bad as this forum makes it out to be.

GreenhaloX

That would defeat the purpose of the set. The signature feature is the pull. This is one set I have enjoyed in a long time, as I use it for PvE. However, some changes and nerfing are bound to happen. Nerfing is a signature feature of ESO. I'm sure the damage will be greatly reduced. Perhaps, the proc time till execution of the pull, or cool down time will be increased. Some kind of bs like that.

Marcus_Aurelius

jaws343 wrote: »

DC really isn't that bad. Or not as bad as this forum makes it out to be.

Just roll dodge man.

Mariusghost84

I agree 100 % with op. This set is an abomination.

Dagoth_Rac

Set should not have scaling. It should simply not work at all unless it hits a certain amount of people. No more pulling 1 and 2 players all over the place. ZOS needs to stop trying to shoehorn zerg busting sets into generic, spreadsheet-driven standards. It is why we constantly get zerg busting sets that end up being used by zergs. And tank busting sets that end up being used on squishies. ZOS needs to embrace sets that simply do nothing unless a threshold is met.

"If your ground based AoE hits 7 or more people, then blah blah blah"

"If you stun or immobilize an enemy with more than 50,000 combined resistance, then blah blah blah"

Xandreia_

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

DC really isn't that bad. Or not as bad as this forum makes it out to be.

Just roll dodge man.

I love when people say just dodge roll... lol

EdmondDontes

jaws343 wrote: »

Xandreia_ wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

There are quite a few pulls in the game right now. Silver Leash, DK Chains, Necro skill, Vateshran sword and board, and now Rush of Agony and DC.

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with pulls, they just need to be more consistent and the range needs to be more telegraphed than it is right now.

Honestly, I actually find the Necro pull to be the most annoying. Chains and Leash have a telegraph and you can see when it hits you. DC has an AOE (that needs to be cleaned up to show more consistently for sure). But the Necro pull can hit you from a skill you fired off and forgot about. And it is incredibly difficult, and extremely unreasonable to avoid that proc from a Necro.

But not everyone is on a necro, using vate snb or silver leash, yet everyone and their granny is using DC! It's supposed to be a zerg busting set yet as a solo player I feel it's way too strong against solos and that's the problem, if it was used for the intended purpose it would be fine but I've had 6 people on me, each with DC on pulling me one after another, that's why it's broken, you can not solo pvp anymore because of 1 set. This game used to be so fun and I wouldn't play anything else if the server issues and DC were fixed, until they are I'm gone and so are a large chunk of the pvp community

And they are adjusting the damage next patch to be less impactful against smaller amounts of targets.

DC really isn't that bad. Or not as bad as this forum makes it out to be.

You are right. Dark Convergence is way worse than most on this forum make it out to be.

I'm highly confident the Dark Convergence defenders are the people who can now get kills with their proc set in situations they couldn't before.

There is a reason no other game has ever put a proc pull in their mechanics. It's a totally absurd mechanic and totally disrupts game play no matter what you are trying to do.

EdmondDontes

GreenhaloX wrote: »

That would defeat the purpose of the set. The signature feature is the pull. This is one set I have enjoyed in a long time, as I use it for PvE. However, some changes and nerfing are bound to happen. Nerfing is a signature feature of ESO. I'm sure the damage will be greatly reduced. Perhaps, the proc time till execution of the pull, or cool down time will be increased. Some kind of bs like that.

Removing the proc pull would not defeat the purpose of the set. Removing the pull would just bring the set more in balance with other sets in terms of the power it grants to the wearer. The random pull mechanic that is not aimed or cost resources is the abomination that must be dealt with.

Vevvev

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

DC really isn't that bad. Or not as bad as this forum makes it out to be.

Just roll dodge man.

Just use Mistform! . . . Hope they're a vampire.

jaws343

EdmondDontes wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Xandreia_ wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

There are quite a few pulls in the game right now. Silver Leash, DK Chains, Necro skill, Vateshran sword and board, and now Rush of Agony and DC.

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with pulls, they just need to be more consistent and the range needs to be more telegraphed than it is right now.

Honestly, I actually find the Necro pull to be the most annoying. Chains and Leash have a telegraph and you can see when it hits you. DC has an AOE (that needs to be cleaned up to show more consistently for sure). But the Necro pull can hit you from a skill you fired off and forgot about. And it is incredibly difficult, and extremely unreasonable to avoid that proc from a Necro.

But not everyone is on a necro, using vate snb or silver leash, yet everyone and their granny is using DC! It's supposed to be a zerg busting set yet as a solo player I feel it's way too strong against solos and that's the problem, if it was used for the intended purpose it would be fine but I've had 6 people on me, each with DC on pulling me one after another, that's why it's broken, you can not solo pvp anymore because of 1 set. This game used to be so fun and I wouldn't play anything else if the server issues and DC were fixed, until they are I'm gone and so are a large chunk of the pvp community

And they are adjusting the damage next patch to be less impactful against smaller amounts of targets.

DC really isn't that bad. Or not as bad as this forum makes it out to be.

You are right. Dark Convergence is way worse than most on this forum make it out to be.

I'm highly confident the Dark Convergence defenders are the people who can now get kills with their proc set in situations they couldn't before.

There is a reason no other game has ever put a proc pull in their mechanics. It's a totally absurd mechanic and totally disrupts game play no matter what you are trying to do.

I ran the proc for all of 3 hours. It wasn't that good. I dropped it and went back to what I normally run, which is zero procs. And here I am defending it, all while getting kills without it.

jaws343

EdmondDontes wrote: »

GreenhaloX wrote: »

That would defeat the purpose of the set. The signature feature is the pull. This is one set I have enjoyed in a long time, as I use it for PvE. However, some changes and nerfing are bound to happen. Nerfing is a signature feature of ESO. I'm sure the damage will be greatly reduced. Perhaps, the proc time till execution of the pull, or cool down time will be increased. Some kind of bs like that.

Removing the proc pull would not defeat the purpose of the set. Removing the pull would just bring the set more in balance with other sets in terms of the power it grants to the wearer. The random pull mechanic that is not aimed or cost resources is the abomination that must be dealt with.

The pull is the only thing that makes this set even remotely viable for its intended purpose. Remove the pull and it's just another ground based AOE that ball groups will just run right through without any issues. There are issues with the pull currently that are being addressed. That is good. Removing the pull is not the solution.

ealdwin

jaws343 wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

GreenhaloX wrote: »

That would defeat the purpose of the set. The signature feature is the pull. This is one set I have enjoyed in a long time, as I use it for PvE. However, some changes and nerfing are bound to happen. Nerfing is a signature feature of ESO. I'm sure the damage will be greatly reduced. Perhaps, the proc time till execution of the pull, or cool down time will be increased. Some kind of bs like that.

Removing the proc pull would not defeat the purpose of the set. Removing the pull would just bring the set more in balance with other sets in terms of the power it grants to the wearer. The random pull mechanic that is not aimed or cost resources is the abomination that must be dealt with.

The pull is the only thing that makes this set even remotely viable for its intended purpose. Remove the pull and it's just another ground based AOE that ball groups will just run right through without any issues. There are issues with the pull currently that are being addressed. That is good. Removing the pull is not the solution.

Then remove everything except the pull.

One problem with Dark Convergence is it has too much power budgeted to it. It's a fairly simple to obtain set with a relatively broad proc condition and a mild cooldown time. Even with the changes on the pts, it still is over budgeted in terms of power. A skill that did what DC does would have a cost of 8k or more Magicka, or would be a 250 plus cost Ultimate. As it stands, and will stand, the set is over budgeted. Something has to go.

If the pull is the only thing that makes the set worthwhile, then nix everything but the pull. At that point, with the same proc condition and cooldown, it will be more appropriately budgeted in terms of power. Maybe it could keep a 30% snare on opponents who are pulled, but not 60%—that's too much. It would still be useful in countering groups and gathering them in a place. It would just require followup by skills and abilities in order to be fully effective.

TequilaFire

Why does a set that is supposed to combat groups that are already stacked together pull in the first place?
Cascading damage and snare yes to slow down and blow up the group.
The pull just sucks solo players in.

REiiGN15

You need to have some skill. Maybe the update will help but good players know how to get the most out of it and the right situations to use it. It has to be a timing thing too. Immediately after it procs you need to hit the targets with burst. Most say block but because it's from any AOE ppl know what to use to get around your block. You proc it through a dumpster fire skill like caltrops and yea, it's getting blocked for days.

EdmondDontes

REiiGN15 wrote: »

You need to have some skill. Maybe the update will help but good players know how to get the most out of it and the right situations to use it. It has to be a timing thing too. Immediately after it procs you need to hit the targets with burst. Most say block but because it's from any AOE ppl know what to use to get around your block. You proc it through a dumpster fire skill like caltrops and yea, it's getting blocked for days.

In heavy lag it's impossible to mitigate Dark Convergence procs. It's virtually automatic death, especially if against a group with 2 or more people running the set. Then we become pinballs bouncing between the bumpers until dead.

The proc pull is by far the worst mechanic in ESO or any other game that I know of right now.

Hapexamendios

As long as it isn't touched for PVE. The set is very nice for add pulls imo.

Rebirthment

i can see how pvers find it useful so maybe change it to how it works like negate.

Enemy players will be snared instead of pulled

Dark_Lord_Kuro

I went in pvp last week
It didnt seen that bad, sure i got pulled here and there from time to time but it wasnt aweful

Granted i pvp mostly only for the monthy transmute on several characters, so maybe 5-6 hours per month(out of mayhem) so maybe im not the best reference but fought with a AD zerg with the hammer for like 30 min at brk that did not use many of the set

Just my personal experience

EdmondDontes

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

I went in pvp last week
It didnt seen that bad, sure i got pulled here and there from time to time but it wasnt aweful

Granted i pvp mostly only for the monthy transmute on several characters, so maybe 5-6 hours per month(out of mayhem) so maybe im not the best reference but fought with a AD zerg with the hammer for like 30 min at brk that did not use many of the set

Just my personal experience

You should try playing during prime time and more than 5-6 hours/month. You'd have a much better background to form an opinion then.