Hybrid Changes

rageofodin

I could not be happier about this!

The game has struggled for years with 80-85% of their sets not being viable in end game content

This will allow for true theory crafting, and more importantly, more freedom and FUN!

So many players, especially long term players, seemed to have forgotten than this game is about having fun, and not all about them

I cant wait for Update 32!!

StarOfElyon

Yes. I wish the set changes could go live tomorrow because there are three in particular that I want to use. At least, that's one good thing we got going for us.

MashmalloMan

Agreed. I've heard some notable complaints from some particular youtubers and streamers.. kinda made me lose respect for them because they're the same people that claim there is "Best In Slot" gear for pvp. It just sounds like they don't want people to enjoy themselves. This has exploded theory crafting for me.

Besides the issues with Dark Convergence, PVP is probably the most flexible scenario for theory crafting in the game and I feel like these players have too narrow of a view on the matter. They're honestly the same people that claimed Malacath and New Moon were 100% required for pvp, when I lasted patch after patch without them.

These changes really don't change how you build a character, you're still going to prefer a certain playstyle. Whether it's Hybrid, Stamina, Magicka, Tank or Healer.. the differences are still there.

I said this in another comment, but the way I see it.. on a pure stamina build, you can get maybe about 100% of your power towards stamina skills, with 75% of the remaining power available to use for magicka skills. 75% is not bad, there are some circumstances where you'd use a magicka skill despite that power difference to get the additional effects.

Hybrids on the other side of the coin can get about 85-90% of the power for both magicka and stamina skills. The obvious downside is made up for by the fact that they have 2 resource pools to use instead of 1, becoming swiss army knives with entire skills open to their build possibilites.

Even on live, I've been toying with the existing hybrid set bonuses as a stamina build to use Haunting Curse. Despite not having any points into magicka and 0 spell damage glyphs, my Haunting Curse has a tooltip of 12k, while my Crystal Weapon is 12.5k. Could even take this one step farther with Malacath and avoid Crit Chance entirely.

Obviously a magicka build could get a higher Haunting Curse tooltip, but the fact that I can use that skill on a pure build which has close to the same damage as my typical spammable burst combo is pretty unreal. I'm really enjoying the flexibility to play how I want.

The sky is NOT falling..

Stx

You call it play how you want, but its still homogenization and in the end if they continue to homogenize stats, passives, etc. You will end up with a game where choices don't matter and everyone will be playing hybrids, pure builds won't exist. And instead of meta magicka builds and stamina builds, you will just have one meta dps build per class.

divnyi

@Stx not possible with attribute points system. 6400 of attribute is lots of damage.

Stx

divnyi wrote: »

@Stx not possible with attribute points system. 6400 of attribute is lots of damage.

Right... but who is to say they won't homogenize attributes next? That's the path these types of changes lead to.

LeonAkando

Stx wrote: »

You call it play how you want, but its still homogenization and in the end if they continue to homogenize stats, passives, etc. You will end up with a game where choices don't matter and everyone will be playing hybrids, pure builds won't exist. And instead of meta magicka builds and stamina builds, you will just have one meta dps build per class.

I never understood this stance. We currently play an ESO where Hybridization is entirely impossible and very weak, due to the polarization of Stam and Magicka over the years.
ZOS adds some form of Hybridization, still being the obviously weaker overall damage choice, and people are crying about homogenization.

Unless Mag + Stam recovery, and Max Mag + Stam became hybridized AND the Attribute system was was hybridized, AND the enchant system became hybridized, only then would 1 Meta-DPS build arrive.

We are very far from that system. I love the new system, because now you can slot a single Off-Type spell and it can be rewarding. It will do decent damage, save sustain on your primary resource, and add to the flavor of the build.

Stx

That's fine if you don't understand.

Those things you mentioned that haven't been homogenized yet very well could be if they continue down this path they're on. Today it's armor, weapon, guild passives, set bonuses. Tomorrow it could be any of those things you listed.

rageofodin

Stx wrote: »

You call it play how you want, but its still homogenization and in the end if they continue to homogenize stats, passives, etc. You will end up with a game where choices don't matter and everyone will be playing hybrids, pure builds won't exist. And instead of meta magicka builds and stamina builds, you will just have one meta dps build per class.

Giving freedom of choice ≠ to choices dont matter

You can still play a pure build of whatever you want, having pure builds not have an inherent advantage over hybrid builds allows more players to play the way they want, which has been their goal from the start

I definitely agree this is just a first step in equalizing choice across the board. Stats, foods, CP will all come into line as they test and tweak

Stx

rageofodin wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

You call it play how you want, but its still homogenization and in the end if they continue to homogenize stats, passives, etc. You will end up with a game where choices don't matter and everyone will be playing hybrids, pure builds won't exist. And instead of meta magicka builds and stamina builds, you will just have one meta dps build per class.

Giving freedom of choice ≠ to choices dont matter

You can still play a pure build of whatever you want, having pure builds not have an inherent advantage over hybrid builds allows more players to play the way they want, which has been their goal from the start

I definitely agree this is just a first step in equalizing choice across the board. Stats, foods, CP will all come into line as they test and tweak

I disagree.

If hybrids put out the same dps or healing as pures, literally no one would run pures, because hybrids have access to twice as many skills. Hybrids already have an advantage in that they gain access to a much larger toolkit, pure builds have an advantage of dealing more damage or healing while being specialized. It's balanced that way. You have to give something up for building hybrid.

What they're doing with all this homogenization isn't freedom of choice by the way. When you combine things, you quite literally are removing choice.

DrSlaughtr

This is the first brick in the road to a big ol cheese fest. Being able to make a character that is great at everything, which will then get copied over and over with very little change and what we'll end up with is a game that isn't elder scrolls.

Removing the drawbacks of a build choice to let people be power mongers which of course they'll spend a year trying to put that fire out but it'll be too late.

Tannus15

Stx wrote: »

rageofodin wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

You call it play how you want, but its still homogenization and in the end if they continue to homogenize stats, passives, etc. You will end up with a game where choices don't matter and everyone will be playing hybrids, pure builds won't exist. And instead of meta magicka builds and stamina builds, you will just have one meta dps build per class.

Giving freedom of choice ≠ to choices dont matter

You can still play a pure build of whatever you want, having pure builds not have an inherent advantage over hybrid builds allows more players to play the way they want, which has been their goal from the start

I definitely agree this is just a first step in equalizing choice across the board. Stats, foods, CP will all come into line as they test and tweak

I disagree.

If hybrids put out the same dps or healing as pures, literally no one would run pures, because hybrids have access to twice as many skills. Hybrids already have an advantage in that they gain access to a much larger toolkit, pure builds have an advantage of dealing more damage or healing while being specialized. It's balanced that way. You have to give something up for building hybrid.

What they're doing with all this homogenization isn't freedom of choice by the way. When you combine things, you quite literally are removing choice.

There is no reason to limit the skills you can choose based on if they are mag or stam based apart from the resources to use them. So what if a stam sorc chooses to use mages wrath as an execute instead of executioner on their 2h.

Almost everything in ESO is about horizontal choice, not vertical choice. Technically executioner might be a better execute, but who cares? Let the damn stamsorc zap things with the lightning bolt, and more importantly stop punishing people who don't understand the system properly for doing what they think is cool.

I think you'll find in the future the choice will be between damage (spell and weapon damage) vs healing (max resources) vs resists (either armour, shields, % reduction).

karekiz

Stx wrote: »

I disagree.

If hybrids put out the same dps or healing as pures, literally no one would run pures, because hybrids have access to twice as many skills. Hybrids already have an advantage in that they gain access to a much larger toolkit, pure builds have an advantage of dealing more damage or healing while being specialized. It's balanced that way. You have to give something up for building hybrid.

What they're doing with all this homogenization isn't freedom of choice by the way. When you combine things, you quite literally are removing choice.

So we go from 4 mag sets and nobody running stam because Lolz endgame stam.

To people running both which is way worse?

DrSlaughtr

Tannus15 wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

rageofodin wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

You call it play how you want, but its still homogenization and in the end if they continue to homogenize stats, passives, etc. You will end up with a game where choices don't matter and everyone will be playing hybrids, pure builds won't exist. And instead of meta magicka builds and stamina builds, you will just have one meta dps build per class.

Giving freedom of choice ≠ to choices dont matter

You can still play a pure build of whatever you want, having pure builds not have an inherent advantage over hybrid builds allows more players to play the way they want, which has been their goal from the start

I definitely agree this is just a first step in equalizing choice across the board. Stats, foods, CP will all come into line as they test and tweak

I disagree.

If hybrids put out the same dps or healing as pures, literally no one would run pures, because hybrids have access to twice as many skills. Hybrids already have an advantage in that they gain access to a much larger toolkit, pure builds have an advantage of dealing more damage or healing while being specialized. It's balanced that way. You have to give something up for building hybrid.

What they're doing with all this homogenization isn't freedom of choice by the way. When you combine things, you quite literally are removing choice.

There is no reason to limit the skills you can choose based on if they are mag or stam based apart from the resources to use them. So what if a stam sorc chooses to use mages wrath as an execute instead of executioner on their 2h.

Almost everything in ESO is about horizontal choice, not vertical choice. Technically executioner might be a better execute, but who cares? Let the damn stamsorc zap things with the lightning bolt, and more importantly stop punishing people who don't understand the system properly for doing what they think is cool.

I think you'll find in the future the choice will be between damage (spell and weapon damage) vs healing (max resources) vs resists (either armour, shields, % reduction).

You literally can already do that... Nothing is stopping anyone right now running a mag skill on their stam character other than it's less effective. I run a Stam character that uses mag skills. BUT if I can run concealed weapon over surprise attack and do the same amount of damage, I just got way faster sneak for no penalty.

There are dozens of other examples of this.

rageofodin

Stx wrote: »

rageofodin wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

You call it play how you want, but its still homogenization and in the end if they continue to homogenize stats, passives, etc. You will end up with a game where choices don't matter and everyone will be playing hybrids, pure builds won't exist. And instead of meta magicka builds and stamina builds, you will just have one meta dps build per class.

Giving freedom of choice ≠ to choices dont matter

You can still play a pure build of whatever you want, having pure builds not have an inherent advantage over hybrid builds allows more players to play the way they want, which has been their goal from the start

I definitely agree this is just a first step in equalizing choice across the board. Stats, foods, CP will all come into line as they test and tweak

I disagree.

If hybrids put out the same dps or healing as pures, literally no one would run pures, because hybrids have access to twice as many skills. Hybrids already have an advantage in that they gain access to a much larger toolkit, pure builds have an advantage of dealing more damage or healing while being specialized. It's balanced that way. You have to give something up for building hybrid.

What they're doing with all this homogenization isn't freedom of choice by the way. When you combine things, you quite literally are removing choice.

Who says you have to give something up for building a hybrid? What ESO is doing is adding to those options

Where are you getting this data that no one will run pures? With hybrids I can run a full Storm MargSorc and not worry Im not putting out enough DPS for a trial or Arena

With Hybrids I can not have to worry about low level healers or dps in PUG content

With hybrids I can run a pure poison build with sets that are currently not viable for end game content

I still dont understand how you equate adding MORE options is somehow taking choice away from us

Im not trying to be contrarian, I just dont understand the logic here

rageofodin

Tannus15 wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

rageofodin wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

You call it play how you want, but its still homogenization and in the end if they continue to homogenize stats, passives, etc. You will end up with a game where choices don't matter and everyone will be playing hybrids, pure builds won't exist. And instead of meta magicka builds and stamina builds, you will just have one meta dps build per class.

Giving freedom of choice ≠ to choices dont matter

You can still play a pure build of whatever you want, having pure builds not have an inherent advantage over hybrid builds allows more players to play the way they want, which has been their goal from the start

I definitely agree this is just a first step in equalizing choice across the board. Stats, foods, CP will all come into line as they test and tweak

I disagree.

If hybrids put out the same dps or healing as pures, literally no one would run pures, because hybrids have access to twice as many skills. Hybrids already have an advantage in that they gain access to a much larger toolkit, pure builds have an advantage of dealing more damage or healing while being specialized. It's balanced that way. You have to give something up for building hybrid.

What they're doing with all this homogenization isn't freedom of choice by the way. When you combine things, you quite literally are removing choice.

There is no reason to limit the skills you can choose based on if they are mag or stam based apart from the resources to use them. So what if a stam sorc chooses to use mages wrath as an execute instead of executioner on their 2h.

Almost everything in ESO is about horizontal choice, not vertical choice. Technically executioner might be a better execute, but who cares? Let the damn stamsorc zap things with the lightning bolt, and more importantly stop punishing people who don't understand the system properly for doing what they think is cool.

I think you'll find in the future the choice will be between damage (spell and weapon damage) vs healing (max resources) vs resists (either armour, shields, % reduction).

EXACTLY! So many new players are put off by this, and many veterans refuse to play with new players because of this

MMOs are designed to be social, not this ever changing power creep to maximize damage just for maximizing damage

I get it, being OP is FUN! I use WeMod with almost all my single player games, but this isnt a single player game

No MMO should be design for one type of playstyle end game, its not feasible to maintain a paying community long term like that

Skyrim and Fallout 4 are so popular BECAUSE you can play your way, any way. ESO will only flourish because of these types of changes

Stx

rageofodin wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

rageofodin wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

You call it play how you want, but its still homogenization and in the end if they continue to homogenize stats, passives, etc. You will end up with a game where choices don't matter and everyone will be playing hybrids, pure builds won't exist. And instead of meta magicka builds and stamina builds, you will just have one meta dps build per class.

Giving freedom of choice ≠ to choices dont matter

You can still play a pure build of whatever you want, having pure builds not have an inherent advantage over hybrid builds allows more players to play the way they want, which has been their goal from the start

I definitely agree this is just a first step in equalizing choice across the board. Stats, foods, CP will all come into line as they test and tweak

I disagree.

If hybrids put out the same dps or healing as pures, literally no one would run pures, because hybrids have access to twice as many skills. Hybrids already have an advantage in that they gain access to a much larger toolkit, pure builds have an advantage of dealing more damage or healing while being specialized. It's balanced that way. You have to give something up for building hybrid.

What they're doing with all this homogenization isn't freedom of choice by the way. When you combine things, you quite literally are removing choice.

Who says you have to give something up for building a hybrid? What ESO is doing is adding to those options

Where are you getting this data that no one will run pures? With hybrids I can run a full Storm MargSorc and not worry Im not putting out enough DPS for a trial or Arena

With Hybrids I can not have to worry about low level healers or dps in PUG content

With hybrids I can run a pure poison build with sets that are currently not viable for end game content

I still dont understand how you equate adding MORE options is somehow taking choice away from us

Im not trying to be contrarian, I just dont understand the logic here

I don't know what to say other than what I've already said.

1) If hybrids are competitive with pures, no one will run pures. Why would you? Hybrids have access to twice the number of skills.

2) The more you homogenize stats, the fewer choices you need to make when building a character. It's the worst thing that can happen to an RPG.

DrSlaughtr

Why would I run Executioner as a Stam sorc if I can dizzy a player down and use an undodgeable mages wrath?

Mag skills are programmed to benefit staff wielders. Stam skills are programmed to benefit martial weapons. There's an inherent balance there between ranged and melee.

Players will do what they always do. Those at the top will figure out the best hybrid builds which 80% of players will adopt to one degree or another. There will be very little reason to play a pure build and ZOS will spend a year trying to put out the fires.

thadjarvis

rageofodin wrote: »

The game has struggled for years with 80-85% of their sets not being viable in end game content

I like the hybrid set change up, but I don't think expanding the number of useful sets is one of the outcomes.

Stam and mags now will use the same sets for the most part. It seems that actually LESS sets will have an application.

ealdwin

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Mag skills are programmed to benefit staff wielders. Stam skills are programmed to benefit martial weapons. There's an inherent balance there between ranged and melee.

The Magicka-ranged/Stamina-melee argument has been moot since day 1, with Templar and Dragonknight disproving that notion out of the gate.

Fennwitty

So is the streamlining of crit chance and +Damage the problem, or is it the specter of "slippery slope the game will eventually be ruined"?

This is a pretty modest change. It mostly affects sets which literally are only different because of their weight class.

Example: Mother's Sorrow and Leviathan. One light, the other medium. Nothing else different now besides Armor value.

But even then, a player has to consider the state of armor passives, whether that Armor makes a difference, whether they want one of the Armor skill lines, and under what situations.

As soon as you get sets continuing to give +Stamina or +Magicka, there's not really a sudden rush of flexibility. Under this system, your hybrid stats being split are going to add up to a smaller number than stacking all on one stat, and so inherently you can't do as much raw damage.

Given identical sets except that one gives +Stamina and the other gives +Magicka, the one closer aligned to your primary stat will be worth more. If you boost your 'off' stat, doesn't matter since most skills will now use your 'max' stat.

Disclaimer: Yeah there's going to be a ton of 'cheese' as the dust settles, and sets, skills, armor passives etc. will continue to be tweaked on an individual basis.

DrSlaughtr

ealdwin wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Mag skills are programmed to benefit staff wielders. Stam skills are programmed to benefit martial weapons. There's an inherent balance there between ranged and melee.

The Magicka-ranged/Stamina-melee argument has been moot since day 1, with Templar and Dragonknight disproving that notion out of the gate.

And both those mag classes are built around close quarters. Having said that, both still run staves outside a few who will run double swords on pvp magplar and an even fewer who do it in pve just for lulz.

StarOfElyon

Stx wrote: »

rageofodin wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

rageofodin wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

You call it play how you want, but its still homogenization and in the end if they continue to homogenize stats, passives, etc. You will end up with a game where choices don't matter and everyone will be playing hybrids, pure builds won't exist. And instead of meta magicka builds and stamina builds, you will just have one meta dps build per class.

Giving freedom of choice ≠ to choices dont matter

You can still play a pure build of whatever you want, having pure builds not have an inherent advantage over hybrid builds allows more players to play the way they want, which has been their goal from the start

I definitely agree this is just a first step in equalizing choice across the board. Stats, foods, CP will all come into line as they test and tweak

I disagree.

If hybrids put out the same dps or healing as pures, literally no one would run pures, because hybrids have access to twice as many skills. Hybrids already have an advantage in that they gain access to a much larger toolkit, pure builds have an advantage of dealing more damage or healing while being specialized. It's balanced that way. You have to give something up for building hybrid.

What they're doing with all this homogenization isn't freedom of choice by the way. When you combine things, you quite literally are removing choice.

Who says you have to give something up for building a hybrid? What ESO is doing is adding to those options

Where are you getting this data that no one will run pures? With hybrids I can run a full Storm MargSorc and not worry Im not putting out enough DPS for a trial or Arena

With Hybrids I can not have to worry about low level healers or dps in PUG content

With hybrids I can run a pure poison build with sets that are currently not viable for end game content

I still dont understand how you equate adding MORE options is somehow taking choice away from us

Im not trying to be contrarian, I just dont understand the logic here

I don't know what to say other than what I've already said.

1) If hybrids are competitive with pures, no one will run pures. Why would you? Hybrids have access to twice the number of skills.

2) The more you homogenize stats, the fewer choices you need to make when building a character. It's the worst thing that can happen to an RPG.

Hybrids are competitive now but not meta. On my Redguard DK hybrid - wearing NMA and Shacklebreaker - right now, I can give a stam warden trouble but it's more difficult to win than it would be if I played a pure stam DK. That will not change just because I get more set options.

Vevvev

Stx wrote: »

rageofodin wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

You call it play how you want, but its still homogenization and in the end if they continue to homogenize stats, passives, etc. You will end up with a game where choices don't matter and everyone will be playing hybrids, pure builds won't exist. And instead of meta magicka builds and stamina builds, you will just have one meta dps build per class.

Giving freedom of choice ≠ to choices dont matter

You can still play a pure build of whatever you want, having pure builds not have an inherent advantage over hybrid builds allows more players to play the way they want, which has been their goal from the start

I definitely agree this is just a first step in equalizing choice across the board. Stats, foods, CP will all come into line as they test and tweak

I disagree.

If hybrids put out the same dps or healing as pures, literally no one would run pures, because hybrids have access to twice as many skills. Hybrids already have an advantage in that they gain access to a much larger toolkit, pure builds have an advantage of dealing more damage or healing while being specialized. It's balanced that way. You have to give something up for building hybrid.

What they're doing with all this homogenization isn't freedom of choice by the way. When you combine things, you quite literally are removing choice.

An understandable issue, especially considering the single player games and other MMOs with truly free build choices. I remember Archeage for example bragging about it's over 200 class combinations and freedom of choice, but everyone figured out the 6 combinations anyone would ever want to run. Like 2-3 PvP builds, a DPS build, a healing build, and a tank. All creativity was merely handicapping yourself basically.

Stx

I wish some of the players that keep asking for homogenization would instead ask for more skills and skill lines to be added.

Homogenization creates a boring game. Adding more skill options creates more build options.

MashmalloMan

Stx wrote: »

I wish some of the players that keep asking for homogenization would instead ask for more skills and skill lines to be added.

Homogenization creates a boring game. Adding more skill options creates more build options.

While I agree to a certain extent, I think this game is not quite there yet..

As long as they draw a line in the sand and say this is it, it will fine. There is very little difference between the potential 3.2k mag/stam on your character and 340 weapon/spell damage from enchants.

I find the larger issue is the people asking for these changes just seem to continue wanting more until everything is 100% equal and as you put it, why make a pure build when a hybrid could do everything equally proficient while openning the door to every skill available instead of half of them..

Luckily, as we know, ZOS doesn't always listen to forum feedback or else Dark Convergence and Hrothgar would of never saw the light of a live patch in the state they were in.

Syrpynt

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I wish some of the players that keep asking for homogenization would instead ask for more skills and skill lines to be added.

Homogenization creates a boring game. Adding more skill options creates more build options.

While I agree to a certain extent, I think this game is not quite there yet..

As long as they draw a line in the sand and say this is it, it will fine. There is very little difference between the potential 3.2k mag/stam on your character and 340 weapon/spell damage from enchants.

I find the larger issue is the people asking for these changes just seem to continue wanting more until everything is 100% equal and as you put it, why make a pure build when a hybrid could do everything equally proficient while openning the door to every skill available instead of half of them..

Luckily, as we know, ZOS doesn't always listen to forum feedback or else Dark Convergence and Hrothgar would of never saw the light of a live patch in the state they were in.

So all of the people worried that the game will homogenize beyond power and crit stats, I am for homogenization--however I think that it should be split into:

1.) Spell/Weapon Power is the only resource scalar for damage done.
2.) Stamina/Magicka pool is the only resource scalar for healing done. If you do 50/50, your healing suffers, but your dps does not.
3.) Health is the only resource scalar for buff potency. More health and less stam/mag pools? You do better buffs but your healing done is weakened.
4.) Critical Damage and Critical Healing are now 2 separate stats. Why? Because you can't just build up critical chance to be OP anymore. Why would anyone ever put in for "power" stats if critical gives both healing and damage done?? That's broken. You want to be a DD? You're glass cannon now. You want to heal through an onslaught of 1vX PvP? You hit like a wet noodle now.

DepressiveCrab

rageofodin wrote: »

EXACTLY! So many new players are put off by this, and many veterans refuse to play with new players because of this

And like veteran I say- I still wouldnt play with new players cause its not interesting for me.
But with this changes Ill have to eat some... khm cheese.
Casuals already can play what they want. But they still cant understand it, cause they're bad in this game. Nothing personally to this people, just my hate to this patch.

Tannus15

Syrpynt wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I wish some of the players that keep asking for homogenization would instead ask for more skills and skill lines to be added.

Homogenization creates a boring game. Adding more skill options creates more build options.

While I agree to a certain extent, I think this game is not quite there yet..

As long as they draw a line in the sand and say this is it, it will fine. There is very little difference between the potential 3.2k mag/stam on your character and 340 weapon/spell damage from enchants.

I find the larger issue is the people asking for these changes just seem to continue wanting more until everything is 100% equal and as you put it, why make a pure build when a hybrid could do everything equally proficient while openning the door to every skill available instead of half of them..

Luckily, as we know, ZOS doesn't always listen to forum feedback or else Dark Convergence and Hrothgar would of never saw the light of a live patch in the state they were in.

So all of the people worried that the game will homogenize beyond power and crit stats, I am for homogenization--however I think that it should be split into:

1.) Spell/Weapon Power is the only resource scalar for damage done.
2.) Stamina/Magicka pool is the only resource scalar for healing done. If you do 50/50, your healing suffers, but your dps does not.
3.) Health is the only resource scalar for buff potency. More health and less stam/mag pools? You do better buffs but your healing done is weakened.
4.) Critical Damage and Critical Healing are now 2 separate stats. Why? Because you can't just build up critical chance to be OP anymore. Why would anyone ever put in for "power" stats if critical gives both healing and damage done?? That's broken. You want to be a DD? You're glass cannon now. You want to heal through an onslaught of 1vX PvP? You hit like a wet noodle now.

I think points 1 and 2 are coming, they already did this to proc sets. It's just complicated and will take time to identify and address all the balance issues with this.

I don't understand why people are so attached to the stamina / magicka split. You get less builds, not more with this restriction.
The important part to me is that "pure" builds as we know them now will still be just as good while "hybrid" builds will also be good. So what if someone wants to run a destro / bow build or a dw build that actually uses some class abilities other than the 2 stam morphs that were shoe horned into the class but don't really have any decent synergy.

This patch is fantastic, because every live build will still be just as good once the patch drops. To everyone crying "change fatigue" just ignore the damn update. You'll be fine. Everything that works now on live will still work exactly the same way.

For people who want to keep trying new things and to look for alternatives, this patch opens up the game in a way we haven't seen since one tamriel.
It's awesome.

DrSlaughtr

Tannus15 wrote: »

I don't understand why people are so attached to the stamina / magicka split. You get less builds, not more with this restriction.

I can only answer for me and this is just my opinion based on playing the game on and off since the beginning.

First, let's remove end game trials from the conversation because they will always run whatever helps them get through the mechanics most efficiently. Hybrid or not.

So now you're left with the majority of activity that goes on in the game on a daily basis.

Currently you build your character to fit your playstyle. This requires choosing a primary mode of damage. You can, right now, run hybrid. But you have to make concessions. It's not without it's drawbacks.

That's what this game is built around. Achieving the most optimal version of your character but knowing you have to pick and choose and decide what aspects are most important.

This is why it's the most advanced MMO out there in terms of combat and that's why it's exciting to play.

Let's split this further.

So take that majority of activity and split it between PvE and pvp.

That AI monster doesn't care if you've cheesed it. It has no feelings. It doesn't care you've hit it with the most toxic build you can come up.

But pvp? This is what drives players off. It's happening right now with dark convergence that's being used by stam tanks in 12 man groups, running they map until people get tired of it and log off.

If you completely remove the hurdle that a player must build around a concept that requires gives and takes, then this activity will get a million times worse.

Why would you on your 2h Nord run Executioner when you can run mages wrath that does way more damage, that the target can't escape from? Then drop a meteor on them to finish them off because it will kill easier than dawny?

Mag skills tend to do more damage than stam skills. Why? Because a range character has to do more damage from afar. If you or an AI monster gap closes, they're in trouble.

But if we remove the hurdle that you have to ultimately decide which mode of damage you want to focus on, you will just go max genetically named damage pool without giving anything up.

If I can do more damage with a mag morph in melee, why wouldn't I use that morph?

So then you'll boil everyone down to running melee weapons while wielding the more damaging mag morphs. You can run those melee weapons now and still do good spell damage but it isn't as much as you could with a destro, or if you went with Stam morphs, which is how it should be.

If you want to maximize your mag damage, run staves. If you're wanting to spell Sword, run 2h sword or DW swords. You'll still perform well, but not as well.

Tannus15

@TheEndBringer I think this is where a big part of the problem is.

Lets look at attributes to start.

When I started playing the game i split my attributes in a 2/1/1 ratio. I was "focusing" on stam so 2 attributes would go into stamina and 1 to health and 1 to mag.
This seemed about right to me.

Now skills.
I also searing strike over venomous claw, because you know, healing and damage is better than just damage right? And that's cool with engulfing flames too, i can cast those 2 from my mag pool and then i'm good for spamming wrecking blow. What's on the back bar you ask? another 2h sword! I can run rally for heals and buffs, I'm a genius. I'm certainly not feeling any pain since i have a decent amount of mag, a good amount of stam and plenty of health. I can solo a dolmen and some world bosses!

What happens when i take this build into a dungeon? I'm bad. I do terrible damage and I have no idea. I've got 34 attributes in stam, 16 health, 16 mag and i'm running 2 stat regen drink. My jewels are all robust stam regen, and my skills are a random collection of whatever.

This the problem with the current system. I'm doing what looks fun and overland isn't presenting any difficulty. I do a dungeon and i have no idea that my dps sucks since there is no addon for feedback. if the other dps is good it's an easy clear, and if they are another me it's a real struggle.

this is the core of my argument as we why the game needs to be more hybrid friendly. the game has terrible feedback systems without addons and the "correct" way to play is unintuitive. everyone who understands the game knows you want to put 64 points in a stat and only use abilities that use that stat.

For years I ran normal trials for a casual social guild and I made a point to never tell people they are "doing it wrong" unless they asked first, and I saw a shocking amount of lightning staff heavy attack builds running stamina sets and random skills. Stamplars with Puncturing Sweep because self heals.

The "floor" of this game is so low a lot of people don't understand. People struggle with overland. They will continue to make "bad" decisions but there is no reason to continue to punish them for it.