2500 gems? What?!

winterscrolls229prerb18_ESO

Eso is officialy star citizen. Might as well put some wings on it and sell it for 1000-2000$ direct purchase.

I can imagine gambling revenues would have tanked since microsoft+endeavours, but seriously, thousand dollar mounts and pve+pvp content bundles really are not the most glowing way to go about it.

Danikat

What do the radiant apex mounts normally cost?

I agree 2,500 gems is a lot (once I woke up enough to realise it's gems and not crowns) but I never normally look at radiant apex mounts so I'm not sure what they'd usually cost.

Jaimeh

Yeah, when they started enabling radiant apex sale for gems, they priced them with 1 mount at 2.5k, and then other two lower. It's supposedly to appease people about the low rng of these drops, but by the time you get to 2.5k gems you'll likely have dropped the mount anyway, it's a huge amount of crates. It's great of course, they added a non-RNG option, but it's still exorbitant as heck, and also further compounds monetization practices, because people end up buying crates to make gems, they are a lot of gems left-over, so ZOS introduces gem-exclusive stuff,to off-set gem accumulation, and in that way less and less items go for direct sale in the store.

MajThorax

Speaking of the ram of dark delights. Does it make the same sounds as the regular ram? It's super cool but its voice is annoying and repeats every time I press forward.

Fennwitty

Sales and marketing keeps pushing the envelope to see how far they can get to the edge without it falling off.

Allowing them to do this is generally a game of chicken with your playerbase. How far can it go before the prospective buyer has to hit the brakes or fall off a cliff?

And it has a souring affect on customer loyalty generally. It's very obviously a milking exercise.

Fhritz

You can buy then at least. Remember when radiant wasn't even purchasable with crown gem.

nightstrike

The solution is to stop buying things. You have to vote with your dollars.

Dalsinthus

I do wonder if they’re pushing this too far. I didn’t really have a problem with it in the early days but now, as the prices keep going up, even I’m starting to be turned off by it.

B0SSzombie

Why does it feel like most people in this thread haven't really been paying attention...?

This isn't new. There have been 2,500 Gem Radiant Apex Mounts since the Ayleid Crates, which released Mid-March.

Did you guys just totally miss the Crown Store for the past 6 months? Why weren't you outraged then?

Hotdog_23

B0SSzombie wrote: »

Why does it feel like most people in this thread haven't really been paying attention...?

This isn't new. There have been 2,500 Gem Radiant Apex Mounts since the Ayleid Crates, which released Mid-March.

Did you guys just totally miss the Crown Store for the past 6 months? Why weren't you outraged then?

I was and still am. [snip] My comment in previous thread.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/566174/opinion-the-revealed-crown-gems-for-radiants-amounts-are-fair/p2

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Posted this in another forum about this

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/565814/how-much-will-the-new-radiant-apex-mounts-cost-in-gems#latest

Seems like a good place for it also:

These Are grossly overpriced, and ZOS should be ashamed of themselves for even considering these prices.

It’s around $35 us dollars to buy 15 crates pack, when buying the 21000 gems at $150 dollars. Say you get 10 gems per crate which is generous I believe. You get 150 gems per 15 crate pack. Let’s up this to 200 gems per crate just to be overly fair. You need 6 pack to get 1200 gems or $210 for the wolf or $280 at 150 gems per 15 crate pack.

In short,
Wolf is $210 - $280 US dollars or $245 on average.
Horse is $280 - $373 US dollars or $327 on average.
Cat is $437 - $583 US dollars or $510 on average.

“He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with what he would like to have.” ― Socrates

Stay safe and enjoy the journey 😊

PS. ZOS stop the micromanagement of the green tree 🥺

[edited for bashing]

Thannazzar

Fennwitty wrote: »

Sales and marketing keeps pushing the envelope to see how far they can get to the edge without it falling off.

Allowing them to do this is generally a game of chicken with your playerbase. How far can it go before the prospective buyer has to hit the brakes or fall off a cliff?

And it has a souring affect on customer loyalty generally. It's very obviously a milking exercise.

Yeah, probably not a smart move less than a week before another MMO is released.

eyeseezombiesub17_ESO

Purely aesthetic mount. You don't have to have it.

The game gets updated fairly often, even if I disagree with the direction it seems to be going, it does get updated.

New content is released every year which does indeed involve people behind the scenes creating it and they expect to get paid for their services. You could probably argue that the people may want or even deserve raises as time passes.

With so many seemingly refusing to buy a sub and/or buy crowns, where exactly are they supposed to find funding to pay employees who create/update the content and the technicians who maintain the equipment?

I won't be getting the mount, I think it's expensive but there are people who are willing to pay what it takes to get it which I'm fine with as it supports the game. It's a business at the end of the day and they need to be able to pay the cost of keeping the game going as well as being able to add/improve content.

Do you know of any solutions for this?

nightstrike

eyeseezombiesub17_ESO wrote: »

New content is released every year which does indeed involve people behind the scenes creating it and they expect to get paid for their services

Just a reminder that that content isn't free: the base game as well as the DLC and chapters.

eyeseezombiesub17_ESO

nightstrike wrote: »

eyeseezombiesub17_ESO wrote: »

New content is released every year which does indeed involve people behind the scenes creating it and they expect to get paid for their services

Just a reminder that that content isn't free: the base game as well as the DLC and chapters.

Nor should it be. It was never my intention to imply that it was. Do you think the sale of new content generates enough income to keep everyone paid and happy, including upkeep and repairs to equipment, for an entire year until the next drop? I doubt it.

A good portion of players, from what I can tell in-game, go without purchasing new content or wait until the price drops.

The last I checked, the base game is $19.99 and I've seen it several times below $10. (Can't remember the exact price, maybe $7.99?)

Syrpynt

Well, hopefully at some point, they start selling it via crowns and not crown gems.

[snip]

Now if you said I could buy the mounts for $45 (or 5000 crowns), I'm less reluctant to buy. But Radiants aren't in crowns much, and "Apex" never were.

Maybe a different approach to bringing values down is to just start referring whale's apex mounts as "radiant" to *** them off.

"Nice radiant, which crate season was that?"
"It's a Frost Atronach season Apex, cost me $800 to get it."
"Whoa, all that for a radiant mount?"
"Apex."
"Same thing."

[edited for rude/insulting comment]

winterscrolls229prerb18_ESO

eyeseezombiesub17_ESO wrote: »

Purely aesthetic mount. You don't have to have it.

The game gets updated fairly often, even if I disagree with the direction it seems to be going, it does get updated.

New content is released every year which does indeed involve people behind the scenes creating it and they expect to get paid for their services. You could probably argue that the people may want or even deserve raises as time passes.

With so many seemingly refusing to buy a sub and/or buy crowns, where exactly are they supposed to find funding to pay employees who create/update the content and the technicians who maintain the equipment?

I won't be getting the mount, I think it's expensive but there are people who are willing to pay what it takes to get it which I'm fine with as it supports the game. It's a business at the end of the day and they need to be able to pay the cost of keeping the game going as well as being able to add/improve content.

Do you know of any solutions for this?

Completely agree that its a business. I think the abstract of all the feedback is that the customer impression of offering and pricing such products creates an impression of the store doing it that isn't favourable, probably even damaging.

Every gaming press article that someone reads condeming games with macro transactions, well people are going think "elder scrolls online" is one of those too.

Probably a minor issue if they don't care, or having a positive developer image they've studied and decided doesn't add any value or longevity. Accepted and discounted scummyness. Fine. To me, the more serious doom is that in the last year or so.. you hardly see people having any of the store mounts these days, whether gambling or direct purchase. I've only returned to daily play for about 2 years now, but i swear when i first started you could log in and see in the capitals many copies of store mounts. These days its zero. Sure its both quality and oversaturation....

Also while any female summer costume gets a free pass from me, really, they're adding wow sparkle ponies in the next round? I have no right to say it... but aren't those just a little over the top?

alkoriak

the ram is worth 2500 gems and an apex mount 400 gems (the ram costs more than 6 times the apex) . Now the price in seals are 16000 and 8000 respectively (the ram only costs double the price of the apex). Where is the logic? except we can't buy it with seals as it's too early haha.

Syrpynt

alkoriak wrote: »

the ram is worth 2500 gems and an apex mount 400 gems (the ram costs more than 6 times the apex) . Now the price in seals are 16000 and 8000 respectively (the ram only costs double the price of the apex). Where is the logic? except we can't buy it with seals as it's too early haha.

They already had some limited time stuff where the items cost more seals than a player ever could have earned since endeavors began... (edited for bad grammar)

Is anyone tracking their endeavor seals costs? If no one could ever afford it at the time it was shown in the endeavor store, [snip]

Whatever, I'm still only using endeavor seals for the first apex I historically wanted but didn't partake in crates for, whenever that arrives. I have only 3 in mind and none have been released yet (thankfully), because I only have about 5,000-something seals rn.

HOWEVER
If they keep raising the prices each time it releases in store-- I'll probably stop subscribing altogether instead of infrequently. They clearly support whales more than their average customer, so I think that'll be when the average customer backs out and they lose more sales than they expected. Hopefully it never gets to that point because I love the Elder Scrolls series... But TES VI is around the corner, I've waited longer for games. [snip] *shrug*

[edited for bashing/advertising]

Amottica

winterscrolls229prerb18_ESO wrote: »

Eso is officialy star citizen. Might as well put some wings on it and sell it for 1000-2000$ direct purchase.

I can imagine gambling revenues would have tanked since microsoft+endeavours, but seriously, thousand dollar mounts and pve+pvp content bundles really are not the most glowing way to go about it.

Just curious, how would Microsft have played a role in the sales of crates? It seems everything has remained as it was before that sale was completed.

Even for Endeavors, no one has gained enough seals to purchase any of the current offerings of apex mount let alone the radiant apex mounts so even the endeavor system could only affect the sales of lesser items.

Regardless. I do not buy crates. While it is clearly a great revenue source for Zenimax, I do not see the point in getting distracted by a shiny object and choose to not spend money on such a low chance of getting it.

Syrpynt

Amottica wrote: »

winterscrolls229prerb18_ESO wrote: »

Eso is officialy star citizen. Might as well put some wings on it and sell it for 1000-2000$ direct purchase.

I can imagine gambling revenues would have tanked since microsoft+endeavours, but seriously, thousand dollar mounts and pve+pvp content bundles really are not the most glowing way to go about it.

Just curious, how would Microsft have played a role in the sales of crates? It seems everything has remained as it was before that sale was completed.

Even for Endeavors, no one has gained enough seals to purchase any of the current offerings of apex mount let alone the radiant apex mounts so even the endeavor system could only affect the sales of lesser items.

Regardless. I do not buy crates. While it is clearly a great revenue source for Zenimax, I do not see the point in getting distracted by a shiny object and choose to not spend money on such a low chance of getting it.

Microsoft has it's own policies with crate items: The items must be obtainable through gameplay in addition to the gambling.

But with the pricing that they set for the endeavor seals, it's pretty seedy to set the prices out of reach and remove the items before people can even break into the Apex/Radiant mount market...

I think this whole systematic price-manipulation is a house of cards. It's coming down soon, they'll just milk it for as long as they can get away with it.

Amottica

Syrpynt wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

winterscrolls229prerb18_ESO wrote: »

Eso is officialy star citizen. Might as well put some wings on it and sell it for 1000-2000$ direct purchase.

I can imagine gambling revenues would have tanked since microsoft+endeavours, but seriously, thousand dollar mounts and pve+pvp content bundles really are not the most glowing way to go about it.

Just curious, how would Microsft have played a role in the sales of crates? It seems everything has remained as it was before that sale was completed.

Even for Endeavors, no one has gained enough seals to purchase any of the current offerings of apex mount let alone the radiant apex mounts so even the endeavor system could only affect the sales of lesser items.

Regardless. I do not buy crates. While it is clearly a great revenue source for Zenimax, I do not see the point in getting distracted by a shiny object and choose to not spend money on such a low chance of getting it.

Microsoft has it's own policies with crate items: The items must be obtainable through gameplay in addition to the gambling.

But with the pricing that they set for the endeavor seals, it's pretty seedy to set the prices out of reach and remove the items before people can even break into the Apex/Radiant mount market...

I think this whole systematic price-manipulation is a house of cards. It's coming down soon, they'll just milk it for as long as they can get away with it.

I have not seen any changes to the selling of crates since Microsft closed the deal on Zenimax. Even then, it was clear that Microsoft handled their crates in a very different manner which is why their crate sales were affected by regulations in some nations so it does not seem that we should expect much change. This is why nothing has changed with the crates.

I also question that seals of endeavors have affected crates since the price of a radiant apex mount three months ago would be completely irrelevant to the endeavor system since no one would have been able to use seals to purchase the mounts available then and even today no one is even close to purchasing a radiant apex mount for seals.

As for the speculation, I will avoid that since people have been speculating that the entire game was coming down for years and that has yet to happen.

Syrpynt

Amottica wrote: »

I have not seen any changes to the selling of crates since Microsft closed the deal on Zenimax. Even then, it was clear that Microsoft handled their crates in a very different manner which is why their crate sales were affected by regulations in some nations so it does not seem that we should expect much change. This is why nothing has changed with the crates.

I also question that seals of endeavors have affected crates since the price of a radiant apex mount three months ago would be completely irrelevant to the endeavor system since no one would have been able to use seals to purchase the mounts available then and even today no one is even close to purchasing a radiant apex mount for seals.

As for the speculation, I will avoid that since people have been speculating that the entire game was coming down for years and that has yet to happen.

But you have seen a change: The endeavor seals are DIRECTLY because Microsoft's service requires that crate items be available to access via gameplay.

Another change: Radiant Apex mount costs are going UP. As this thread points out.

The only people who don't have an issue with this are whales. Plain and simple.

Dagoth_Rac

Syrpynt wrote: »

Another change: Radiant Apex mount costs are going UP. As this thread points out.

Are costs really going up? You used to be unable to buy Radiant Apex mounts at all with gems. Then you could buy them for gems, with the fanciest of the season always being 2500 gems. This was the case for Ayleid crates, Iron Atronach crates, and now Grim Harlequin crates. It might be an exorbitant amount, but it has not gone up. You can even make case that price has gone down. From priceless to 2500/1600/1200 gems to 16000 seals. Basically, from luck + lots of cash, to simply lots of cash, to lots of gameplay plus a time gate.

It is very odd. Adding gem and endeavor costs to crate items has had the psychological effect of making them feel harder to get, rather than easier to get. But the fact is Radiant Apex mounts are easier to get than they ever have been, and will get even easier as players reach that 16000 seals threshold.

I am not saying they are easy to get. Far from it. But easier. I will likely own a Radiant Apex mount at some point early next year, despite having never spent a penny on crown crates in the history of game. That was unimaginable a year ago.

Cillion3117

Have you ever raised and trained purebred apex mounts? It's an expensive business.

Syrpynt

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Are costs really going up? You used to be unable to buy Radiant Apex mounts at all with gems. Then you could buy them for gems, with the fanciest of the season always being 2500 gems. This was the case for Ayleid crates, Iron Atronach crates, and now Grim Harlequin crates. It might be an exorbitant amount, but it has not gone up. You can even make case that price has gone down. From priceless to 2500/1600/1200 gems to 16000 seals. Basically, from luck + lots of cash, to simply lots of cash, to lots of gameplay plus a time gate.

It is very odd. Adding gem and endeavor costs to crate items has had the psychological effect of making them feel harder to get, rather than easier to get. But the fact is Radiant Apex mounts are easier to get than they ever have been, and will get even easier as players reach that 16000 seals threshold.

I am not saying they are easy to get. Far from it. But easier. I will likely own a Radiant Apex mount at some point early next year, despite having never spent a penny on crown crates in the history of game. That was unimaginable a year ago.

Woops, I always mistake apex and radiant-apex as they all literally look the same to me. Not to *** off whales intentially for spending money to differentiate between the two--but I'll never recognize the difference, as they should all cost around (at most) 10,000 crowns*, but whatever.

Either way, I think it's kinda dubious that they're allowed to even display "radiant apex" mounts for 16,000 seals since it's basically impossible to purchase them via that method.

I have 2 mounts in mind that I want, and that's it:

• New Moon Guar
• Dark Opaline Steed

I really want a snake steed but New Moon Guar is best I'll get for my Warden. And Dark Opaline is for my Crystal-Sorc Black Knight.

I mean, I gave up on so many of the apex mounts because they took so long to be achievable outside of crates that I've convinced myself to not want any of them, even if they were given to me.

I might even contact customer service and get some of the crap I never use, removed from my account. I literally will never touch it and makes it harder to find the stuff I do want.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Syrpynt wrote: »

Either way, I think it's kinda dubious that they're allowed to even display "radiant apex" mounts for 16,000 seals since it's basically impossible to purchase them via that method.

No it isn't? We are already up in 7-8k seals if you haven't missed many. Just save them.

Syrpynt

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Syrpynt wrote: »

Either way, I think it's kinda dubious that they're allowed to even display "radiant apex" mounts for 16,000 seals since it's basically impossible to purchase them via that method.

No it isn't? We are already up in 7-8k seals if you haven't missed many. Just save them.

So you're saying someone could have 16,000 already and have purchased the mounts before they timed out? Or we can exchange 7-8k seals for a 16k mount? No? Yeah. Thanks o/

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Syrpynt wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Syrpynt wrote: »

Either way, I think it's kinda dubious that they're allowed to even display "radiant apex" mounts for 16,000 seals since it's basically impossible to purchase them via that method.

No it isn't? We are already up in 7-8k seals if you haven't missed many. Just save them.

So you're saying someone could have 16,000 already and have purchased the mounts before they timed out? Or we can exchange 7-8k seals for a 16k mount? No? Yeah. Thanks o/

🤦‍♀️ of course no one could have that many yet, but fiddling and do changes with the default prices just because no one has that many yet is pointless and could likely cause issues.

Syrpynt

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

🤦‍♀️ of course no one could have that many yet, but fiddling and do changes with the default prices just because no one has that many yet is pointless and could likely cause issues.

Yes, we're back to my original point. It doesn't change the fact that their old business practices are conflicting with the new changes and feels deceitful.

My personalized interpetative summary of actions by the crown-crate/endeavor store offers mixed up with their FOMO sale practices:
"Here are the limited release seasonal crate items also sold for endeavor seals that you can't buy with the new endeavor currency by the time these items are removed from the crown store! Goodluck waiting for it again 1-2 years from now for it again."

I'm only snapping back because you said "no" as to defend those actions and be ok with that, or to disagree that isn't what was happening.

I understand there's a transition, but if it means no one can get all the items they advertise within the timelimits of it's display in the store, it is sketchy.

Do they run events where you can't even get 1 fragment because there aren't enough days to get the tickets before the event ends? No? That's because events are set up fair!

What I am saying is,
1.) Until the item can be afforded via the most difficult to obtain currency (endeavors) it should be displayed in the store until it can be bought. Then maybe a week later they can take it down.

Example: So if a player earned every possible seal since endeavors began, and they just saved up 16,000 seals--1 week after that 16,000 could possibly be earned--is when they should remove the item from the store. Or it is a lie!

You may disagree, but that is a slippery slope to allow that kind of business practice to be the new norm.

Starlight_Knight

The monetization of ESO has always been fairly questionable, but recently with the apex mounts being so expencive and the announcment of the armouror assistant being cash shop as well. its becoming absurb.

Why are all thease cosmetics not unlockable in game ?
Every time you see somone on a nice mount you know they had to pay for it and not earn it.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Syrpynt wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

🤦‍♀️ of course no one could have that many yet, but fiddling and do changes with the default prices just because no one has that many yet is pointless and could likely cause issues.

Yes, we're back to my original point. It doesn't change the fact that their old business practices are conflicting with the new changes and feels deceitful.

My personalized interpetative summary of actions by the crown-crate/endeavor store offers mixed up with their FOMO sale practices:
"Here are the limited release seasonal crate items also sold for endeavor seals that you can't buy with the new endeavor currency by the time these items are removed from the crown store! Goodluck waiting for it again 1-2 years from now for it again."

I'm only snapping back because you said "no" as to defend those actions and be ok with that, or to disagree that isn't what was happening.

I understand there's a transition, but if it means no one can get all the items they advertise within the timelimits of it's display in the store, it is sketchy.

Do they run events where you can't even get 1 fragment because there aren't enough days to get the tickets before the event ends? No? That's because events are set up fair!

What I am saying is,
1.) Until the item can be afforded via the most difficult to obtain currency (endeavors) it should be displayed in the store until it can be bought. Then maybe a week later they can take it down.

Example: So if a player earned every possible seal since endeavors began, and they just saved up 16,000 seals--1 week after that 16,000 could possibly be earned--is when they should remove the item from the store. Or it is a lie!

You may disagree, but that is a slippery slope to allow that kind of business practice to be the new norm.

Shall they sell absolutely nothing in the store until people could have enough endeavours or what?