Stam whip is really nonsense

Miloscpolski

Asking for a stam whip is already complete madness, having access to spam abilities from two-handed, one-handed weapons, bow, shield and sword, from the fighters guild, from the Psijic order and even the CLASS STONE GIANT, many [snip] people continue to write this nonsense. You really want to take the whip from the magdk, although at the same time, the choice of spam abilities from the magdk is VERY small, when you already have access to 7 spam abilities, LEAVE the magdk whip

[edited for bashing]

Chaos2088

Calling others that have a different opinon to you bloated and nonsense is not a great way to start a platform for discussion about this subject.

Miloscpolski

Chaos2088 wrote: »

Calling others that have a different opinon to you bloated and nonsense is not a great way to start a platform for discussion about this subject.

bloated - its a fact, when stam dk have 7 sourses of spammble ability and ppl asking about still 1 spammble like a whip
taking it away from the magdk

auz

I don't understand why it has to be taking away from mag dk. Take both mag morphs. Combine them into 1 and give us stam whip. Or make 3 morphs.

BattleAxe

Miloscpolski wrote: »

Asking for a stam whip is already complete madness, having access to spam abilities from two-handed, one-handed weapons, bow, shield and sword, from the fighters guild, from the Psijic order and even the CLASS STONE GIANT, many [snip] people continue to write this nonsense. You really want to take the whip from the magdk, although at the same time, the choice of spam abilities from the magdk is VERY small, when you already have access to 7 spam abilities, LEAVE the magdk whip

Yes many of us chose a stam dk to use non class skills. Also reading other posts since latest pts patch no one is asking to take away whip from mag dk merely give it dynamic resource scaling so it costs differs based on highest offensive stats. Biggest reason I and my fellow stam dks are asking for whip because those non class spammables we have access to does not feel good with how stam dk plays. We will go on this idea tho of 7 non class stam spammables. So does this mean we can do away with stam blades surprise attack? Templars jabs? Because they also have access to the same 7 non class spammables. Basically for stam dk it boils down to we want to use more of our own class abilities to utilize our class passives more.

[edited to remove quote]

meekmiko

BattleAxe wrote: »

Miloscpolski wrote: »

Asking for a stam whip is already complete madness, having access to spam abilities from two-handed, one-handed weapons, bow, shield and sword, from the fighters guild, from the Psijic order and even the CLASS STONE GIANT, many bloated people continue to write this nonsense. You really want to take the whip from the magdk, although at the same time, the choice of spam abilities from the magdk is VERY small, when you already have access to 7 spam abilities, LEAVE the magdk whip

Yes many of us chose a stam dk to use non class skills. Also reading other posts since latest pts patch no one is asking to take away whip from mag dk merely give it dynamic resource scaling so it costs differs based on highest offensive stats. Biggest reason I and my fellow stam dks are asking for whip because those non class spammables we have access to does not feel good with how stam dk plays. We will go on this idea tho of 7 non class stam spammables. So does this mean we can do away with stam blades surprise attack? Templars jabs? Because they also have access to the same 7 non class spammables. Basically for stam dk it boils down to we want to use more of our own class abilities to utilize our class passives more.

As a StamSorc main I completely feel your pain.

BattleAxe

meekmiko wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

Miloscpolski wrote: »

Asking for a stam whip is already complete madness, having access to spam abilities from two-handed, one-handed weapons, bow, shield and sword, from the fighters guild, from the Psijic order and even the CLASS STONE GIANT, many bloated people continue to write this nonsense. You really want to take the whip from the magdk, although at the same time, the choice of spam abilities from the magdk is VERY small, when you already have access to 7 spam abilities, LEAVE the magdk whip

Yes many of us chose a stam dk to use non class skills. Also reading other posts since latest pts patch no one is asking to take away whip from mag dk merely give it dynamic resource scaling so it costs differs based on highest offensive stats. Biggest reason I and my fellow stam dks are asking for whip because those non class spammables we have access to does not feel good with how stam dk plays. We will go on this idea tho of 7 non class stam spammables. So does this mean we can do away with stam blades surprise attack? Templars jabs? Because they also have access to the same 7 non class spammables. Basically for stam dk it boils down to we want to use more of our own class abilities to utilize our class passives more.

As a StamSorc main I completely feel your pain.

Yes the change to crystal weapon is a bad change and should instead be it’s own damage and not tied down to just being a buff to light attack damage.

Jamdarius

Miloscpolski wrote: »

Asking for a stam whip is already complete madness, having access to spam abilities from two-handed, one-handed weapons, bow, shield and sword, from the fighters guild, from the Psijic order and even the CLASS STONE GIANT, many [snip] people continue to write this nonsense. You really want to take the whip from the magdk, although at the same time, the choice of spam abilities from the magdk is VERY small, when you already have access to 7 spam abilities, LEAVE the magdk whip

People ask for DYNAMIC RESOURCE COST for that skill, so if you are have more res into mag it costs mag, if you are stam it costs stam.

[edited to remove quote]

Foto1

auz wrote: »

I don't understand why it has to be taking away from mag dk. Take both mag morphs. Combine them into 1 and give us stam whip. Or make 3 morphs.

Extinct_Solo_Player

Biased mag dk main is biased.

ke.sardenb14_ESO

Miloscpolski wrote: »

Chaos2088 wrote: »

Calling others that have a different opinon to you bloated and nonsense is not a great way to start a platform for discussion about this subject.

bloated - its a fact, when stam dk have 7 sourses of spammble ability and ppl asking about still 1 spammble like a whip
taking it away from the magdk

Right stamDK have access to 7 spammables, and only one is effectived by world in ruin, in both live and PTS. That means that the damage buff for DK will have 0 impact on the majority of the damage done, EVEN FOR THE STONEGIANT.

ke.sardenb14_ESO

Foto1 wrote: »

auz wrote: »

I don't understand why it has to be taking away from mag dk. Take both mag morphs. Combine them into 1 and give us stam whip. Or make 3 morphs.

Personally a better idea is simply make searing hart the base ability. Keep lash mag, and make flame whip poison.

RandomKodiak

"You really want to take the whip from the magdk, although at the same time, the choice of spam abilities from the magdk is VERY small, when you already have access to 7 spam abilities, LEAVE the magdk whip"

C'mon all you [snip] Stam DK's Mag only has whip, they can't use Crushing, Force Pulse, or Elemental weapon. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

oscarovegren

Miloscpolski wrote: »

Chaos2088 wrote: »

Calling others that have a different opinon to you bloated and nonsense is not a great way to start a platform for discussion about this subject.

bloated - its a fact, when stam dk have 7 sourses of spammble ability and ppl asking about still 1 spammble like a whip
taking it away from the magdk

StamDKs want 1 good class spammable to make it unique from the dizzy-spamming. Is that too much to ask for? (don´t even mention poop rock in this discussion)

Wellsley

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/586966/real-stamwhip#latest

Stone giant is a joke, not many players play with it because this skill is boring and copy pasted from crystal fragment.

Stone giant only existed because a few years ago the devs didn't want a stamwhip but still wanted to satisfy the players with another spammable.
It did not work except for some players, mostly in pve.

Jeirno

just have 1 morph be stam and 1 magicka?? like crystal weapon on sorc??, like birds on warden?? like skulls on necro??? like jabs on templar??? like concealed/suprise attack on NB???

Wellsley

Jeirno wrote: »

just have 1 morph be stam and 1 magicka?? like crystal weapon on sorc??, like birds on warden?? like skulls on necro??? like jabs on templar??? like concealed/suprise attack on NB???

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/586966/real-stamwhip#latest

Go comment here👍

Bl4ckR3alm93

ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »

Foto1 wrote: »

auz wrote: »

I don't understand why it has to be taking away from mag dk. Take both mag morphs. Combine them into 1 and give us stam whip. Or make 3 morphs.

Personally a better idea is simply make searing hart the base ability. Keep lash mag, and make flame whip poison.

Or better yet keep the Whips the way they are and change Stone Giant to a poison damage morph and buff the skill alittle

Elo106

Bl4ckR3alm93 wrote: »

ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »

Foto1 wrote: »

auz wrote: »

I don't understand why it has to be taking away from mag dk. Take both mag morphs. Combine them into 1 and give us stam whip. Or make 3 morphs.

Personally a better idea is simply make searing hart the base ability. Keep lash mag, and make flame whip poison.

Or better yet keep the Whips the way they are and change Stone Giant to a poison damage morph and buff the skill alittle

Agreed, I dont think anyone would mind replacing poop rock with something else, anything else.

ke.sardenb14_ESO

Bl4ckR3alm93 wrote: »

ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »

Foto1 wrote: »

auz wrote: »

I don't understand why it has to be taking away from mag dk. Take both mag morphs. Combine them into 1 and give us stam whip. Or make 3 morphs.

Personally a better idea is simply make searing hart the base ability. Keep lash mag, and make flame whip poison.

Or better yet keep the Whips the way they are and change Stone Giant to a poison damage morph and buff the skill alittle

Baring a drastic change to stonegiant, the best option to fix the stamDk experience will have to be giving them a spammable within thier actual DPS line. While I understand the utility of both skills it would be simple to combine the heal of lash with flame whip mech. and just make the other whip cost stamina.

Wellsley

It seems to me that the best solution is change to cost Stam if Stam is the higher resource.

Hotdog_23

Wellsley wrote: »

It seems to me that the best solution is change to cost Stam if Stam is the higher resource.

The only problem with is scaling with the highest resource for cost is it would also need to give the same 15% reduction in cost that stamina gets over magic.

Stay safe everyone and ZOS please fix the green tree micromanaging

DrSlaughtr

Jamdarius wrote: »

Miloscpolski wrote: »

Asking for a stam whip is already complete madness, having access to spam abilities from two-handed, one-handed weapons, bow, shield and sword, from the fighters guild, from the Psijic order and even the CLASS STONE GIANT, many bloated people continue to write this nonsense. You really want to take the whip from the magdk, although at the same time, the choice of spam abilities from the magdk is VERY small, when you already have access to 7 spam abilities, LEAVE the magdk whip

People ask for DYNAMIC RESOURCE COST for that skill, so if you are have more res into mag it costs mag, if you are stam it costs stam.

So every time you cast it the server has to calculate which resource is larger and apply it to the skill.

silver1surfer69

Playing stam dk for overall 3+ y now i can say stam whip is a great idea and its what we needed. Im looking foreward to it. Stam dk lacks an ability that heals while dealing damge - so that hits the nail on the head. You can forget landing dizzy swing on a ´better´player. Even after fossilize. Versus a skilled player you hit like 2 out of 10 d-swings, so d-swing is the first thing im going to drop next patch. Cheers.

silver1surfer69

Miloscpolski wrote: »

Asking for a stam whip is already complete madness, having access to spam abilities from two-handed, one-handed weapons, bow, shield and sword, from the fighters guild, from the Psijic order and even the CLASS STONE GIANT, many [snip] people continue to write this nonsense. You really want to take the whip from the magdk, although at the same time, the choice of spam abilities from the magdk is VERY small, when you already have access to 7 spam abilities, LEAVE the magdk whip

Are you playing a stam dk for a significant time? Sounds like you are a mag dk.

[edited to remove quote]

silver1surfer69

VarisVaris wrote: »

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

Miloscpolski wrote: »

Asking for a stam whip is already complete madness, having access to spam abilities from two-handed, one-handed weapons, bow, shield and sword, from the fighters guild, from the Psijic order and even the CLASS STONE GIANT, many bloated people continue to write this nonsense. You really want to take the whip from the magdk, although at the same time, the choice of spam abilities from the magdk is VERY small, when you already have access to 7 spam abilities, LEAVE the magdk whip

Are you playing a stam dk for a significant time? Sounds like you are a mag dk.

[snip]

^^ lol

[edited to remove quote]

thadjarvis

The whip costing mag for stamDK is awesome.

None of the other 11 classes have a class spam scale that costs the opposite stat pool but scales off their main pool. Plus they have a powerful debuff spam skill option as well.

If you want a stam scaling, stam cost skill there are tons of great one's already.

Jodynn

I'm a MagDK main and I love the idea of scaling off highest attribute.

Here is why

It gives life to new builds
It gives more options and ideas
More theorycrafting and joy to the game

Who wants to be all placed in the same skills and the same meta all the same time?

Not me personally, Some don't like theorycrafting and just read builds, that's fine too but for me personally, I love options.

So I say make ALL skills scale off the highest, and "stamwhip" is a nice way to start that. Maybe they'll make it scale of highest resource eventually too, I have mixed feeling about this personally, In fact I'd prefer a choice but that might get a bit too micro managey on the user side. Either way, this is a step in the right direction.

VarisVaris

Jodynn wrote: »

I'm a MagDK main and I love the idea of scaling off highest attribute.

Here is why

It gives life to new builds
It gives more options and ideas
More theorycrafting and joy to the game

Who wants to be all placed in the same skills and the same meta all the same time?

Not me personally, Some don't like theorycrafting and just read builds, that's fine too but for me personally, I love options.

So I say make ALL skills scale off the highest, and "stamwhip" is a nice way to start that. Maybe they'll make it scale of highest resource eventually too, I have mixed feeling about this personally, In fact I'd prefer a choice but that might get a bit too micro managey on the user side. Either way, this is a step in the right direction.

That's a horrible idea, seperating Mag and Stam from one another is very important and the solution Zos has proposed for the stamwhip discussion (which has existed on some other skills like cauterize and was taken a step further with soul trap) should never be universally applied to abilities.

First of all it would destroy any identity mag and stam specs of the same class have.
Second it would cause huge balance issues, imagine a Stamcro with access to the full healing power of Intensive Mender or Resistant Flesh...

It's good that the huge majority of skills is seperated by mag and stam scaling and pushing it further just for the sake of it would cause big problems

exeeter702

I will never understand this mindset that people want class skills above all else.

This game was structured at its very core around the assumption that the many universally available skill lines in game (weapons, guilds, world etc) are 100 percent analogous to class skills and offer alternative mirrors with similar applications. At some point people started assuming (possibly because of some exceptions to this rule existing briefly) that class skills SHOULD by rights always be the superior options simply because they are class skills.

"I rolled a dk so I could use dk skills" just seems so absurd of a mindset to me, and this was never the case back in the day with the playerbase early on. What exactly do you want the non class skill lines to serve as? Random utility filler skills? Skills that fill in holes in your build that your class skills dont have? Downright weaker options for the sake of role playing?

You can wax poetic all day about how eso should have been purely class based with the irony that most people actually have historically complained about wanting the opposite, a classless system. There are some people that play this game that will only be happy when they can have a 100 percent fully class skill based build because reasons.

Non class skills have always possessed the same power budget and offered alternative tools to help various builds function reliably and should not be viewed as some kind of stepchild / reject to class skills.

Stamina whip is frankly redundant. And dks finally getting it after the mess that was stone fist just shows that zos here is buckling to player demand without actually have a strong stance or vision on the matter.

RandomKodiak

Stam DKs right now are the lowest damage dealers in the game, by a fair bit. I don't understand the mentality of people trying to tell them to be happy with it and leave all the mag DK stuff be. As far as "But you have so many weapon choices" when all those choices still leave Stam DKs at the bottom of the pile because they have no class synergies that work well with them why would they not ask for some help through classes? I have a DK bow/bow (as in almost every skill uses poison) and on the PTS he still can't do squat. My main is a bow/bow, I have leveled every class in this game in bow/bow and DKs despite the poison buff are still at least 5k behind all the others. So trying to convince people that they should just be happy at the bottom because they have so many different choices of how to stay there is silly.