Mist Form Solution

DerpyBossGamer

Personally I think Mistform should just have the pale order treatment: the more people in the group the less it mitigates until eventually it does nothing in a 12 person group. That way it would still be useful in small group play and in solo play. The fact that the nerf kills soloing a lot of hm dungeons is really sad, and needing to be stage four for the full mitigation would also kill soloing.

Vevvev

DerpyBossGamer wrote: »

and needing to be stage four for the full mitigation would also kill soloing.

I do a lot of veteran solo content at stage 4 just fine. I build for the flame weakness with the proper tools, race, and class so I can make it to the end without getting one shot.

DavGlen

Agreed completely. The current change in PTS is atrocious.

DavGlen

DerpyBossGamer wrote: »

needing to be stage four for the full mitigation would also kill soloing.

Completely false. I can solo all dungeons and world bosses as stage 4. But the trick is, I'm built all around mistform. My Champion Points, all of my sets, all of my skillpoints, all of them are built around mistform, trading damage for steady endurance.

Losing everything that I worked for on a single day and having to say "ok, back to the drawing board" is not what a RPG should be.

Miloscpolski

Aldoss wrote: »

This is not my idea. I don't know who the originator of it was, but this "solution" has been mentioned several times over the last year and now is clearly the time for ZOS to acknowledge it as the only good compromise between what's live now and their absolutely atrocious change for PTS.

Mist form mitigation MUST be tied to vamp stage.

Mist Form base mitigation needs to be 35%, making it uniquely useful, but less effective than blocking already is.

Mitigation increases in 10% increments with each vamp stage increase, maxing out at the current 75% mitigation.

There is no other solution that ZOS can come up with in such a short time frame that won't completely gut the last universally useful skill that vamps own.

The solution fits within the narrative of the new vampire line (Kiss/Curse) and will force PvE tanks to do what PvPers did in the last meta and deal with the ramping costs to their regular abilities.

This solution will largely leave PvP unaffected as most PvP vamps already run stage 3. If the 10% mitigation is important to them, then everyone (PvErs and PvPers) must weigh the costs and the benefits of going to stage 4.

I make this suggestion as a PvE Main Tank stage 1 vamp with most dungeon and trial trifectas checked and my current main PvP toon is a stage 3 stamdk.

Removing mist from PvE is yet another sledgehammer solution for a problem created by the devs and solved using creativity by the player base to compensate. I'll be the first to admit, there are many encounters that make me say "wow mist is so broken in pve" but will also acknowledge that vRG was poorly designed.

If you won't fix vRG, then you need to be better than just destroying the last useful skill from the vamp line.

I do not see mist form being very useful in PvE with this change. Immunity to snares is not that big of a deal. The morph that does AoE damage does not seem to be a very good damage skill.

SteinetGear

Mist form must live.

Aldoss

Miloscpolski wrote: »

I do not see mist form being very useful in PvE with this change. Immunity to snares is not that big of a deal. The morph that does AoE damage does not seem to be a very good damage skill.

Yup. Mist form will be a pvp only skill and the only morph that will ever see the light of day will be Elusive Mist. Blood Mist is useless without major changes to its damage scaling.

Without mist, there is 0 reason for anyone looking to do anything but pvp or rp to be a vampire. A werewolf toon GETS BENEFITS for being a ww and not ever using it in all game content. They get a unique 15% stamina recovery buff that can stack with minor/major endurance.

Vampires are penalized 100% of the time, regardless of whether or not they are actively using any vamp skills.

ZOS, please prove you're more creative than this.

DavGlen

Aldoss wrote: »

Miloscpolski wrote: »

A werewolf toon GETS BENEFITS for being a ww and not ever using it in all game content. They get a unique 15% stamina recovery buff that can stack with minor/major endurance.

Vampires are penalized 100% of the time, regardless of whether or not they are actively using any vamp skills.

ZOS, please prove you're more creative than this.

Absolutely agreed.

Aldoss

7.2.2 makes NO mention of Mist Form.

This is wrong. Please address this.

merpins

Or... ZoS could just balance PVP and PVE separately, allowing them to make skills more useful for both sides without the balance of one game mode effecting the balance of the other? Like almost every other major MMO i existence? I personally hate how it's balanced, since there's a ton of skills that are only good in pvp and a ton that are only good in pve. If they balanced the game separately, they could make skills that change depending on which mode you're in, and we'd all have MORE skills to play with and more options, and the balancing for one wouldn't effect the other...

Just balance your game modes separately, ZoS. This IS balancing it separately, but doing it wrong. Don't just make it so a skill doesn't work on PVE, make a whole new skill for PVE instead and make it change depending on if you're in pvp or pve.

Azphel

Mist Form didn't deserve this change.

I submitted /feedback, but I doubt they're going to revert this. Many ideas were provided here and in other threads, and all we get is radio silence.

Aldoss

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Or... ZoS could just balance PVP and PVE separately, allowing them to make skills more useful for both sides without the balance of one game mode effecting the balance of the other? Like almost every other major MMO i existence? I personally hate how it's balanced, since there's a ton of skills that are only good in pvp and a ton that are only good in pve. If they balanced the game separately, they could make skills that change depending on which mode you're in, and we'd all have MORE skills to play with and more options, and the balancing for one wouldn't effect the other...

Just balance your game modes separately, ZoS. This IS balancing it separately, but doing it wrong. Don't just make it so a skill doesn't work on PVE, make a whole new skill for PVE instead and make it change depending on if you're in pvp or pve.

I disagree with this. I don't think it's a smart idea to be more like every other mmo out there. I love that I can invite my friends to play and we're (sort of) on the same playing field because of level scaling. I love that I can bring them to cyro before they're max level and they're not completely lost.

Creating two different systems means learning from the ground up for each of them. There's already a steep learning curve to each of these systems that don't necessarily complement each other. PvErs that try PvP are still very lost when it comes to understanding positioning, self-sustain, and timed burst. Making it so that they skills they know now suddenly work differently in PvP only amplifies this learning divide.

Mist Form CAN be balanced for both. I think the solution outlined in this thread (again, not my solution, but one that's been mentioned many times) does a good job at balancing both. PvP Vamps already run stage 3 for the Undeath Passive. Some do this just for the passive and never touch any vamp skills. Others still use mist form for the cc break and mitigation.

I highly doubt mist will be crutched on as much if pvers using it would be forced to be stage 3 or stage 4. Sustain would be much more of a challenge. We'd have to weigh the cost/benefit of staying vamp.

ZOS, your silence on this is unacceptable. You're about to kill something that you spent an entire patch hyping up, and then spent a year subsequently dismantling. It makes no sense.

Aldoss

Posting this for visibility and relevance. ZOS's silence is the most ironic self-fulfilling quagmire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voLvQVeNh6k

Do anything* but outright remove it from pve.

*Except hit it again with an even bigger sledgehammer like you seem to do when correcting mistakes like this...

irswat

ZOS should have made a mechanic on bahsei where if you stand on one of the runes on the ground you take less dot damage, but only one person per rune.

Aldoss

Another week gone, another step closer to ZOS deleting PvE vamps.

Can someone just please respond and confirm that this is part of ZOS' "new direction with vampires"? Is Vampirism supposed to be PvP only?

Literally all I want is someone to explain why this makes sense more than any of the other suggestions floated thus far. Silence is the most useless form of PR and community development.

propertyOfUndefined

I think if it’s meant to be a disengage ability (as stated in the patch notes) then it should be redesigned, not made useless in 1 of 2 game modes. Make it a teleport so vampires feel “slippery”, or just leave it the way it is.

Jaimeh

Ratzkifal wrote: »

They only nerfed Mistform because it was mandatory. But why was it mandatory? Because vRG hm is broken and Mistform is the only skill to make it consistently beatable. ZOS doesn't want vampires to be mandatory, but they wouldn't be if Rockgrove was fixed, so this nerf is undeserved.

What gets me is the wording in the first pts patch notes: 'mist forms trivializes content'... as if that fight becomes magically trivial when tanks use it How many tanks belonging to separate accounts have cleared that fight from the 14 million player count that they like to boast... I'm sure they have the numbers, and yet they chose to say 'trivializes'. Either they are completely out of touch with their own content, or they are spiteful players find ways to deal with it... but in any case it's a completely nonsensical decision to remove it outright, when they could have found other ways to penalize its use.

Vevvev

Jaimeh wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

They only nerfed Mistform because it was mandatory. But why was it mandatory? Because vRG hm is broken and Mistform is the only skill to make it consistently beatable. ZOS doesn't want vampires to be mandatory, but they wouldn't be if Rockgrove was fixed, so this nerf is undeserved.

What gets me is the wording in the first pts patch notes: 'mist forms trivializes content'... as if that fight becomes magically trivial when tanks use it How many tanks belonging to separate accounts have cleared that fight from the 14 million player count that they like to boast... I'm sure they have the numbers, and yet they chose to say 'trivializes'. Either they are completely out of touch with their own content, or they are spiteful players find ways to deal with it... but in any case it's a completely nonsensical decision to remove it outright, when they could have found other ways to penalize its use.

My bet is on spiteful. They did not like players using Mistform and their words on the subject in the streams made them appear to be quite ticked off. They said players were abusing it and to enjoy it while it lasted. Their goal if this goes life is to remove the ability from the game instead of correctly balancing it.

Kardrik

The thing that gets me about the wording is that its a "Disengagement tool"
What?
A "disengagement tool" that goes as slowly as walking? I am supposed to "disengage" at a walking pace?