Mechanical Acuity sucks now

ajkb78

It should be perfectly possible to get acuity all the way to max stacks in pve. As long as you have a few dots ticking, light attacks, spammable skill, an ulti dot effect ticking away, weapon glyphs, burning effect, you're highly likely to get *something* not critting in the 5 second window for getting another stack. Or just wear it with relequen, the patch notes say rele proc damage cannot crit so the damaging winds are a guaranteed way of forcing acuity to step through every stack of increasing crit chance. (Though actually rele would probably force it through its stacks a bit quicker than is ideal, if there's a scaling set that procs only every 2 or 3 seconds that would be better.) It's too complex for me to guess whether it's a buff or nerf in pve, will need to wait for some comparison parses I guess.

Saenic

It's more of a PvE set now rather than gank PvP. In PvP you rely on critting all your burst damage. In theory you get "almost" guaranteed crits and if you do not crit, the 5s window gets extended until you crit.
The problem is the 0.5s internal cooldown. For Nichtblades it might be pointless now. For my Stamplar in PvP it means high crit Jabs even longer.

vms11934

Also doesn't look like it will be a viable backbar option any longer.

universal_wrath

Ezorus wrote: »

BroughBreaux wrote: »

>there's nothing wrong with 1vX if they can still be toppled by someone who's invested everything into damage
>But this isn't the case because even when I've chased literally every singe damage stat I can, and am as durable as wet tissue paper because of that, I still can't come close to killing them.

>ZOS says damage is too high despite a bunch of people being literally unkillable even when outnumbered 10 to 1

This! People don't understand that those of us who go all in for attack have zero defence. And get pissed off when they get killed. But yet its ok for a character to be full on unlikable and yet still land a leap and execute

Things likes health based heals, malacth, hrothgar, balorgh and other similar sets make this possible for tanks to be both unkillable and killing machines. Zos still can't figure out why tanks can kill in PvP, lol. It is an insult to players when devs say they play and know the game.

universal_wrath

ajkb78 wrote: »

It should be perfectly possible to get acuity all the way to max stacks in pve. As long as you have a few dots ticking, light attacks, spammable skill, an ulti dot effect ticking away, weapon glyphs, burning effect, you're highly likely to get *something* not critting in the 5 second window for getting another stack. Or just wear it with relequen, the patch notes say rele proc damage cannot crit so the damaging winds are a guaranteed way of forcing acuity to step through every stack of increasing crit chance. (Though actually rele would probably force it through its stacks a bit quicker than is ideal, if there's a scaling set that procs only every 2 or 3 seconds that would be better.) It's too complex for me to guess whether it's a buff or nerf in pve, will need to wait for some comparison parses I guess.

For PvE, the stacking process is unpredictiable as you can maybe make non crit attacks every 1 sec, or every 3 secs..etc, for PvP, you are almost garnteed a stack every 1 sec, either way, you end up with a long cooldown. Live version is much better imo as it only has 4 secs of 100% with 12 secs cooldown, pts is 100% with 26 secs. The stack is unrelaibe to control as non crit in pvp is gaenteed every 1 sec an almost not in PvE.

Vylaera

Kaysha wrote: »

Right. If a player chooses to build super tanky, he should not be able to deal damage in a noticable number.

Yes. It's already this way at the low end of defense. If you build for high damage, you have to sacrifice resistances and durability. But it's not inverted at the high end. If you build for high resistances and durability, you can still do a ton of damage because you're being carried by proc damage and Malacath with access to high burst heals and good Heal Over Time abilities.

I think the best way to fix this is to add more to the damage scaling equation. Damage stats positively affect damage and healing potency, and defensive stats negatively affect damage and healing potency. The equation would have to be completely readjusted of course, but it's the only way I can think of to fix cheese 1vX being possible.

So that someone with 30k resist and 40k health that only has 2k weapon damage would be at a big disadvantage and certainly wouldn't be doing the kind of damage we see currently. People would be forced to rely on healers to stay alive if they want to build tanky, and rely on damage dealers to kill other people. It would create well defined roles again rather than everyone simply being "good enough" at everything and having the same half-dozen brawler builds that come out on top every single time. Which for obvious reasons, isn't "healthy" for the game, as ZOS likes to say.

neferpitou73

To the current conversation: One of the issue with tanky builds right now is Balorgh, which, even though I love the set, has been over-performing for years if we're honest. I never really worried about adding pen to my group builds because in situations where it was needed Balorgh-powered ult dumps gave me all the pen that was needed. Not to mention insane amounts of weapon/spell damage. I don't usually play tank builds but I'd imagine the same principle holds.

To the thread topic: Was really disappointed to see this nerf. The only issue I had with MA was how high ball groups could stack crit damage to the point where there was literally no counterplay except run. I feel like the crit damage cap (which was one of my personal recommendations to solve the issue) fixed it. The nerf to MA made it useless for no good reason.

ajkb78

BroughBreaux wrote: »

Kaysha wrote: »

Right. If a player chooses to build super tanky, he should not be able to deal damage in a noticable number.

Yes. It's already this way at the low end of defense. If you build for high damage, you have to sacrifice resistances and durability. But it's not inverted at the high end. If you build for high resistances and durability, you can still do a ton of damage because you're being carried by proc damage and Malacath with access to high burst heals and good Heal Over Time abilities.

I think the best way to fix this is to add more to the damage scaling equation. Damage stats positively affect damage and healing potency, and defensive stats negatively affect damage and healing potency. The equation would have to be completely readjusted of course, but it's the only way I can think of to fix cheese 1vX being possible.

So that someone with 30k resist and 40k health that only has 2k weapon damage would be at a big disadvantage and certainly wouldn't be doing the kind of damage we see currently. People would be forced to rely on healers to stay alive if they want to build tanky, and rely on damage dealers to kill other people. It would create well defined roles again rather than everyone simply being "good enough" at everything and having the same half-dozen brawler builds that come out on top every single time. Which for obvious reasons, isn't "healthy" for the game, as ZOS likes to say.

Your suggestion isnt without merit, but it would be good if the negative part of the equation so that solo pve builds with reasonably high resists don't get hobbled.

DrSlaughtr

I was very critical last patch in regards to MA and made several suggestions to make it a little less op.

Seems to me this is a severe over reaction due to the ability to crit procs, which is hilarious because apparently they don't research why they disabled this to begin with.

Furthermore, with the changes to dexterity and the return of high health tanks, MA is the most effective way to combat those builds. Which, again, was something I was concerned about.

I'm not sure how well this will perform. Might have to go back to pushing max damage and pen if you can't get crit reliability up to and over 50%, which will be hard in medium.

GoodFella146

About time this gets changed. It was ridiculous that you can get instantly cheesed out with no counterplay, despite having 20k resistances and 35k health. At least it's not as bad this patch with the proxy change, but it's still dumb and good riddance.

dinokstrunz

GoodFella146 wrote: »

About time this gets changed. It was ridiculous that you can get instantly cheesed out with no counterplay, despite having 20k resistances and 35k health. At least it's not as bad this patch with the proxy change, but it's still dumb and good riddance.

No counterplay?

Jodynn

Sure, it was overpowered in PvP in certain cases

But now the set is pretty terrible in both.

It should get a good change, not a I will never use this set except maybe on trash pulls but probably not change.

TipsyDrow

Need to see more

BroughBreaux wrote: »

I just wanted to expand on what I said initially

>We're in a tank meta
>These thanks can survive and win 1vX
>there's nothing wrong with 1vX if they can still be toppled by someone who's invested everything into damage
>But this isn't the case because even when I've chased literally every singe damage stat I can, and am as durable as wet tissue paper because of that, I still can't come close to killing them.

>ZOS says damage is too high despite a bunch of people being literally unkillable even when outnumbered 10 to 1
>ZOS nerfs damage

>ZOS left dumbfounded when people leave the game because they've done nothing to combat the tank meta and just made it even worse

Are you serious?

Tanks can 1vX and win because of this set and clever alchemist. Acuity has been fixed, now ZOS,,,NERF CLEVER ALCHEMIST.

Vylaera

TipsyDrow wrote: »

Tanks can 1vX and win because of this set and clever alchemist.

Yeah I gotta push back against this. I've never seen a tank get a Mech Acuity proc in all my time playing PvP. Tanks wear Pariah and rely on malacath, weapon damage jewelry, and proc sets like the Vateshran 2H.

TipsyDrow wrote: »

NERF CLEVER ALCHEMIST

"nerf anything that does damage"

Sounds to me like you want everyone to hit each other with pool noodles until everyone gets bored and leaves. That's how you kill pvp. Damage isn't overtuned, durability is.

DrSlaughtr

BroughBreaux wrote: »

TipsyDrow wrote: »

Tanks can 1vX and win because of this set and clever alchemist.

Yeah I gotta push back against this. I've never seen a tank get a Mech Acuity proc in all my time playing PvP. Tanks wear Pariah and rely on malacath, weapon damage jewelry, and proc sets like the Vateshran 2H.

TipsyDrow wrote: »

NERF CLEVER ALCHEMIST

"nerf anything that does damage"

Sounds to me like you want everyone to hit each other with pool noodles until everyone gets bored and leaves. That's how you kill pvp. Damage isn't overtuned, durability is.

I guess it depends on his definition of tank.

I know plenty of spin to win wardens that run aquity. But they aren't tanks. They have 30k health and are hearty because they're wardens. Some people call every Necro and warden a tank just because they have strong defenses.

I also don't know anyone running clever because of it's issues with properly proccing. I'm sure people do but it's not wide spread.

Hescrow

Hello @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BillE @ZOS_BillE @ZOS_Adrikoth @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_AntonioP

I think you can tell developers team to also nerf traits number requirement as it is still same but not for same result.

Juste a fair thing to do.

2 traits min should be enough, I am not kidding and troll

buttaface

vms11934 wrote: »

Also doesn't look like it will be a viable backbar option any longer.

The above is how the set was ruined, and it is indeed ruined, rationalizations and irrelevant, off topic whinging over and over and over in every thread discussing this incompetent overnerf notwithstanding, the topic is that the set will suck when this change goes live, not whether it is currently OP on live, and it will suck. 1/3 to 1/2 of the posts in this thread and the others like it are off-topic. Gaming forums, gotta love em.

Larcomar

Sorry but the set was ridiculously overpowered and a massive carry in pvp. It needed balancing.

I get that that means you won't be able to gank tanks now, but come on, theyre tanks. You shouldn't be able to.

DrSlaughtr

Larcomar wrote: »

Sorry but the set was ridiculously overpowered and a massive carry in pvp. It needed balancing.

I get that that means you won't be able to gank tanks now, but come on, theyre tanks. You shouldn't be able to.

Actually that's exactly who we should be able to gank. We're the class that can burst before their defenses go up and then it takes 10 players to kill them.

Either way, MA isn't needed to do that. It was just the most convenient way for some builds for the last couple patches. I didn't even run MA myself until this patch because of the crit % nerf.

I already have my next build tested and ready and I have similar kill ratios. Sustain is a little worse but no biggie.

Merllow

Larcomar wrote: »

Sorry but the set was ridiculously overpowered and a massive carry in pvp. It needed balancing.

I get that that means you won't be able to gank tanks now, but come on, theyre tanks. You shouldn't be able to.

Then you shouldn't be able to kill either.

Stx

I don't like it when sets get over-nerfed, but acuity was a little too good and was unhealthy for the game in pvp.

This post mainly sounds like someone complaining about tanks.