Does anyone enjoy IC?

Mandragora

I don't know if this will get any answers - it is just me asking why IC was created and if it can actually reach its goal for atleast some players, and if it can what kind of players they are besides nightblades.
I wasn't able to get far into the city, because I don't have a group and I couldn't force myself to use nightlade/potions to get past fast respawning mobs and ganking nightblades. So I cannot make any informed thread about IC, but it boggles me, why instead of forcing everyone into the city, if it is not popular, why it wasn't changed? And what was the original idea behind it? Like PVE groups doing bosses while being in danger of attacks? But does it work? I mean the original idea - can it really be that a group of players enters IC and feels the danger of being ganked, then when they are attacked, they fight heroicly back and wins and then kill the bosses, do all the daily - is it fun for someone? Can that model ever work in narrow tunnels and streets full of mobs?
Because I was thinking if the zone wouldn't be actually more fun if it would be more about solo play, escaping routes, puzzles, traps, blind exits, where someone can trap you and so on, rather than just the need to kill a lot of mobs, bosses, basically another Craglorn, only with open pvp. For me this model never worked, because I think you need to make pvp harder to actually make it enjoyable and this zone doesn't seem even try to do that. It seems like IC is trying to make PVE harder and that is. I would go even that far to say that it would be more enjoyable as battleroyale where you would start at severs and you would have to get pass traps and blind ends to discricts before it would close down. Something like that was in Division survival, only the boss at the end made it like waste of time.

Peacatcher

Ive been to IC 3 times in 5 years:

1 - part of a pve guild group to defeat bosses for achievements and get some leads. It was mostly fine, we stuck to the edges and didnt draw attention to ourselves. A few of us got picked off by other players but it was mostly a success.

2 - during one midyear mayhem I really wanted the achievement for capturing a district so I bit the bullet and went into a quiet campaign and did it. Got jumped by a couple of nightblades but actually managed to beat them off and capture the flag (i think i was as surprised as they were). Then hastily left.

3 - i wanted to try the quest line. I had been having moderate success on a magic warden in Cyrodiil at the time. I play in Cyro most days but Im not good at it and never will be. But i thought Id be able to do reasonably well on my warden if I had to fight another player.

Halfway through the first quest I was triple-bombed by a group of 3 players. I left and havent been back. I hope they enjoyed the 30 telvar they each got from me.

As I say, I play in Cyrodiil most nights. Im not a great player but I enjoy the objectives. IC doesnt seem to be about objectives, it just feels like grabbing easy kills and running/hiding from challenging encounters, which is why nightblades can do so well there. I would love to finish the quest line one day, but I dont think it will happen.

Not really sure what Im trying to say here but just wanted to relay my experiences. Telvar has no value to me but I dont even think its a case of the rewards not being worthwhile, its just that the gameplay doesnt interest me. I have kind of just accepted that Im not the target audience for IC.

SpiritKitten

I love the zone and find it exciting. I play on a stamcro stage 4 vampire there with the best success. Nightblade also does pretty well. I have however taken all my characters/classes there and also done fine.

It's about sneaking, killing as fast as you can, and immediately going back into sneak. Take your time sneaking carefully, evaluating the area you want to kill a mob before attacking it, or race through as fast as possible like freeing the hostages while dodging the aggro, and get killed by players, just respawn at base and go on the speedrun again until quest is finished, but do not go out there questing anywhere in-between super-fast or sneak speed-wise. My stage 4 vampire with ring of the wild hunt sneaks fast and sprints invisibly.

Always deposit your telvar when you get sent back to a base or on top of a trapdoor for getting killed.

Join pug sewer groups for sewer clears and Molog Bal. Follow any 5+ group around of your faction to get flag captures (hold block while in sneak while waiting for flag to flip) and patrolling horrors, and the zone quest/dailies done easier. Loot ASAP then sneak. Sometimes the boss gets stolen by the enemy, sometimes you steal the boss. That's part of the thrill of unknown consequences.

I like to do all the dailies in one session, then turn them in one day at a time to get the merit from the coffer.

IC reminds me of Call of Duty. It's dark, gritty, dangerous, and exciting.

FrancisCrawford

I got so burnt out on it questing in advance of the event I didn't do any WGT for double drops once the event started.

It's like other PvE, but with depressing art, stupid mazes to find quest objectives, and griefing by other players slowing you down.

Greasytengu

It was great when it first came out. Plenty of fights ranging from 1v1s well up to 24v24, tight quarters were a new challenge for PVP, roaming bosses would force fights to constantly reposition reducing deadlocks, Bosses to kill in between fights.

The biggest problem is there is really no reason to go there. Sure we got 1 or 2 niche sets that are currently relevant, an alternative method of getting mats, and hajiiko runes, but there are no long term goals, no reason to log in night after night.

TheImperfect

I don't go very often as with limited time I usually do my preference for pve but when I do go it's always enjoyable and I lose track of time there.

newtinmpls

The gankers ... during events.

Ringing_Nirnroot

n o.

Alienoutlaw

love it, have some great fights and other times just wander around the sewers looking for ppl to jump on lol

RaddlemanNumber7

I really enjoy it, but not for PvP. I take my toons there to do the story quests and PVE achievements, especially the Sublime Protector. I really enjoy the extra feeling of jeopardy I get there. It's so unlike the other zones in that respect.

rbfrgsp

No. PvPvE is dreadful on a conceptual level.

Jaraal

Greasytengu wrote: »

The biggest problem is there is really no reason to go there. Sure we got 1 or 2 niche sets that are currently relevant, an alternative method of getting mats, and hajiiko runes, but there are no long term goals, no reason to log in night after night.

This is pretty much it in a nutshell.

There are no leaderboards, no Emperor-like goals, and no faction scores. If the same campaign objectives people play for in Cyrodiil were adapted for Imperial City, the place would be packed.

MalakithAlamahdi

I do enjoy IC, but as others pointed out there isn't that much reason to go there besides a skin, pet and three polymorphs. Some of the gear is fine such a Zoal, but most isn't that interesting.

I also find the lack of objectives a problem. Even when it's decently populated, punching eachother for 5 minutes over a single flag feels a bit pointless. I usually just go there for the dailies now a days, getting into a fun duel is a bonus.

vesselwiththepestle

IC is the worst. I stopped going in there on my main solo, Nightblades only it is. During the last event one time I was like 30 seconds with my Stamblade in, getting a 10k Tel Var gank -> directly queuing for Cyrodiil! I think I make more Tel Var on my Magblade bomber in general, but Stamblade is more fun. I have the rule that I bring Tel Var home when I hit the 5k Tel Var mark.

In groups it can be fun, IF your group is fast and ready for action. Usually I make lots of Tel Var more when I am solo, so I group up with friends for social reasons. I hate to lead in IC myself, there isn't as much time for a break as in Cyrodiil and different than Cyrodiil you actually have a lot to lose, which puts pressure on you.

At least one of the speed options Swift / Wild Hunt / Major Expedition seems to be absolutely needed.

Also I find IC pretty unfair in many regards, from the whole approach. So I noticed the more I play in IC, the more I get unfair and a bully myself. At first I thought "oh, they are pve'ers just doing quests, I ignore them", but when they gather then and zerg you down more than once... If someone looks like they have Tel Var, they will be killed. Especially during the event often those PVE'ers actually have a lot of Tel Var and you will see how they fight NPC if they are worth it to kill.

DrSlaughtr

I'd enjoy it a lot more if it didn't have an arbitrary currency system that's harder to farm than AP.

Merforum

Mandragora wrote: »

I don't know if this will get any answers - it is just me asking why IC was created and if it can actually reach its goal for atleast some players, and if it can what kind of players they are besides nightblades.
I wasn't able to get far into the city, because I don't have a group and I couldn't force myself to use nightlade/potions to get past fast respawning mobs and ganking nightblades. So I cannot make any informed thread about IC, but it boggles me, why instead of forcing everyone into the city, if it is not popular, why it wasn't changed? And what was the original idea behind it? Like PVE groups doing bosses while being in danger of attacks? But does it work? I mean the original idea - can it really be that a group of players enters IC and feels the danger of being ganked, then when they are attacked, they fight heroicly back and wins and then kill the bosses, do all the daily - is it fun for someone? Can that model ever work in narrow tunnels and streets full of mobs?
Because I was thinking if the zone wouldn't be actually more fun if it would be more about solo play, escaping routes, puzzles, traps, blind exits, where someone can trap you and so on, rather than just the need to kill a lot of mobs, bosses, basically another Craglorn, only with open pvp. For me this model never worked, because I think you need to make pvp harder to actually make it enjoyable and this zone doesn't seem even try to do that. It seems like IC is trying to make PVE harder and that is. I would go even that far to say that it would be more enjoyable as battleroyale where you would start at severs and you would have to get pass traps and blind ends to discricts before it would close down. Something like that was in Division survival, only the boss at the end made it like waste of time.

IC is a cesspool of gankers and greifers and unfortunately it is that way BY DESIGN. They have allowed a very toxic playstyle of ganker/bomber NB with inviso to become prevalent instead of being very niche and hard to do like most other games. It also is that way in Cyro which has less incentive to do by design but just as toxic. BGs was the only PVP area where this playstyle is much less useful/successful but now they will be changing to 'deathmatch only' so BY DESIGN once again we'll see ganker heaven.

And don't get me wrong, whenever I go to IC like the last event, I have ganker killer build where I kill more of them that can kill me but it takes many hours of practice to be able to do that, while the whole time being ganked over and over and disincentivizing you all the way. BTW I tried ganking/bombing builds in the past and it goes from screwing up a lot to stupidly OP and boring very fast. Also over time it has a very detrimental effect to your psyche, making you think you are better than everyone until you get killed then you become a raging lunatic. BTW this happened to me and EVERY SINGLE vid of someone else I have seen, not scientific, but very common.

If you go into IC, just use a full tank build, or at least put all stats into health, you can respec later. The important thing is not to be an easy target. And get in a group. If you have a good group you can go with some heals rather than damage at the beginning then go for more damage later. If you even care about fighting in PVP that is, otherwise just go tanky/healer spec with a group, get in and get out.

Kaysha

If you want to know the original concept, you have to take a look at DAoC and Darkness Falls. That’s what they tried to transfer to ESO.
Sadly they only tried.

Tivnael

I do enjoy. Like the extra tension and fighting back gankers and also lore aspects

Elendir2am

You can only be one of the following roles in IC: ganker, gank-hunter or duck (I will explain later).
Ganking and gank-hunring are veri specific activities, which like only limited number of people.
Question is then, why would anyone want to be a duck?
Some people have such tastes, but there are also few of them.

Why duck?
My first death in IC to ganker was, when I take main quest at entrance and followed it.
Kill few daedra, easy.
Take something from ulocked chest, hard.

When the quest takes you into the middle of a clear space with many suitable hiding places on the edges and there you are forced into a slow animation: kneel to open the chest?
What does that ganker have to do other than shoot you like a duck?
The concept of the IC is like a shooting range, where the ganker stands with a rifle at shooting post until the machine shoots another duck for them to shoot.
There is nothing to make them sweat for their prey. Load (cloak), fire, reload, fire, that's all it has to do. Of course including aiming.

But why, for some unknown reason, most players refuse to go to the IC to be ducks?
ZOS had to look for a way to push them to do so. That's why we already had an event with ticket in a location, that most players hate, twice this year. So that the gankers do not starve without ducks.

PS: I am aware that it is possible to build against ganking. However, we often have to sacrifice something to achieve it. Gank-hunting is also an activity that does not entertain everyone.

Nagastani

Love it

Deep_01

I enjoy IC, as someone good in both solo pvp and endgame pve. I regularly farm bosses off-primetine and pvp during primetime there. I use very different builds for different activities there (solo farm build+ resist ganker, group boss farm + resist ganker, solo boss farm+fight players, pure pvp build for fighting multiple pvp players that is different from cyrodiil build, build to fight/gank stronger farmers and rarely an Imperial Physique build)

It is amazing with its dense and unique environment for pvp. If someone ganks me while I am farming bosses, I stop farming and hunt down the ganker over and over again. That usually stops them.

The pvp is fun there as you can use buildings to your advantage in any class to take down multiple players.

Just don't be upset when you lose tel var. Always assume you only own half of it, Always! If I have 6k on me, I make up my mind I only have 3k tel var. Helps you avoid frustation. Go and bank all your tel var every time you die (my minimum is 500) and you'll save up a good balance of tel var.

Edit: It is super fun to duo with someone of same/similar build.

Nagastani

I remember back in the day when IC had first came out and before they add the district flags, I would run the length of the districts doing nothing but picking up chests and running like hell back to base with 3 or 4 ppl (usually DC) in hot pursuit most of the time.

Hah Good Times.

SimonThesis

I like combat in IC, outside of the lag and traditional pvp bugs, but the zone's appearance is extremely depressing. If they increased the lighting or reduced the creepy fog I think more people would be playing in IC.

Mandragora

Thanks for all the answers - I can see that Battle royale wouldn't fit most of the players enjoying IC, but more of solo play features wouldn't hurt.
I think something similar tried Division with Dark zones, but it was a bit better there, because it wasn't clear who is your enemy instantly - the game didn't have factions, so the time to kill was a bit longer and if you killed someone you became visible on the map, so atleast everyone knew where the zerging/ganking group was, so it was made a bit harder, even if it didn't work that well.

Kaysha wrote: »

If you want to know the original concept, you have to take a look at DAoC and Darkness Falls. That’s what they tried to transfer to ESO.
Sadly they only tried.

I have heart about it, but I didn't find any deeper description of the pvp system there, only that it was realm vs realm.
I know mud MUME, which does have for me the best pvp vs pve system, but I don't know how different it was from those mentioned games, only that there was no castles, it was based on Tolkien, so it was cities/lairs full of friendly NPCs you could raid/defend and it was full of hidden exits, where you could trap. The system was very flexible - you could do PVE in groups, you could trap with a small group, you could even win as the worst class on the server if you knew the game well enough, you could flee away from zerging group, if you had survival character, because the system was quite tactical, but I didn't find that kind of pvp in any openworld pvp games, so I'm not sure why there was no continuation. I know there was something like that in WoW, but I didn't play it and I guess open world is a bit different from smaller alleys in a city. And text mud is different than 3d game. Some pvp games tried to add some features, but it didn't really work there I think, so I don't know if something more tactical would work in IC. Maybe survival games are more close to that system.

martinhpb16_ESO

My favourite zone in the whole game

xDeusEJRx

I love IC, my favorite PVP area in the game. It's basically Cyrodiil without the mount riding simulator because of how condensed the zone is in size and the lag is not nearly as bad because it's divided into instances by the districts. IC and no proc cyro are all fun to play, and I'd play it most of the time I PvP but the problem is lack of population on ps4 servers. It's fun when people are in there but the fun is always shortlived because it's a graveyard most of the time

Beardimus

Yep I love it

Shame they didn't adjust the rewards, i.e. gold willpower / agility / endurance for more fragments or similar just to make all the currency have meaning again.

It's fun tho, close quarter combat and best event

SkaraMinoc

Imperial City during Midyear Mayhem is like a large Deathmatch battleground and very fun. However, most of the time there's no point to Imperial City for me at all. I don't need gold so I don't need Tel Var and the IC sets are useless to me.

Contrast this to DAoC's Darkness Falls. It rewarded players with the best PvP gear in the game. Imagine a set like Imperial Physique always gave you a 6x multiplier without carrying tel var and you could use it in Battlegrounds and Cyrodiil. Now imagine that OP set costs 250k tel var per piece. This is what it was like in Darkness Falls. It was always packed with great danger and great reward. It was some of the most fun I've ever had in any MMO.

kargen27

I suggested an idea in the general area on how I thought Imperial City could be made more fun but it didn't get any traction.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/586496/year-round-fun-in-imperial-city-an-idea#latest

Mandragora

Thanks for the link - I missed discussions when it was actual during event, so I don't know what players suggested only that it was better before the changes, sadly I will never experience how it was before, so I cannot imagine what you were suggesting in your thread, but I can imagine that a small change can do that - to bring back big battles. Question is - do you need them? Isn't similar mod in battlegrounds already? I even bought IC before it was for free, because I really liked the idea of a city stealth gameplay. But I was hoping for more of friendly patrols or mechanics I could use to my advantage.

My friend suggested an extra instanced timed mod similar to battleroyale , independent from the current IC, where there would be no alliances, but it would use the close imperial prison as background story. The only story would be that there was a prison break and you are one of those who escaped and you will spawn in the middle of underground with only prison clothes on you, similary to battleroyale you would have to find all equipment on the way and decide if you would kill bosses on your way to freedom or even group up with other players temporary to kill the bosses for loot, which you could take with you, or to pass them in order to get to the exit in time. Only limited number of players passing through the gate would get to freedom before lockdown, so you would really need to be fast. And there would be ofcourse lower number of mobs - more adequate to a solo player.
What do you think - would that be fun?
On the other hand I have no illusions - ZOS will never change IC or implement a game mod like this.

kargen27

In other games I've never been good at the battle royale style PvP but I do know a lot of people really like it and have wanted ZoS to add it in some way for a very long time. A locked zone in Imperial City so you couldn't drop to the sewers or go through the gates would probably work for what you want if they ever decided to make the change.

I've thought for a while people should be able to set their houses up to be free for all zones where people can just port in and kill each other. If you die you spawn back at the door.

The big battles that used to happen in Imperial City really were not like what happens in battle grounds. Battle grounds is three four man teams. Before the changes some nights there would easily be 100 players all in one zone fighting. Basically it was factions trying to push other factions back to their bases. Wasn't any rewards or anything to speak of just a big fight. Sometimes you could break off and find smaller battles throughout the zone and it was always fun to drag the boss into the mix just to really stir things up.