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Cloak has essentially been removed from the game

  • WhyEvenTry
    WhyEvenTry
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    Healing ward and roll works wonders on ma NB, esp. since healing ward is arguably the strongest heal in the game and NB also has the most healing potential...

    Can you please do me a favor and explain how you come to the conclusion that healing ward is the strongest heal in the game.


    Also, the title of this thread should be changed to “Dark cloak has essentially been removed from the game” With the recent nerf it received, which no one was asking for, and this buff to invis cloak there is little to no reason at all to use dark cloak instead of invis.

    So buff dark cloak please. :smile:
    Edited by WhyEvenTry on September 14, 2021 2:43PM
  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
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    NagualV wrote: »
    I appreciate you all that took time to answer my question. Do you all feel that if magblade was given a good burst heal, it would push them into OP territory? Cloak/burst heal? Would it be beneficial to give them a good burst heal THEN give cloak the "ramping cost" treatment?

    It sounds like cloak cannot overcome the lack of a burst heal or the assasinswill/swallow soul/soul harvest "dodgeability" issue.

    Healing ward and roll works wonders on ma NB, esp. since healing ward is arguably the strongest heal in the game and NB also has the most healing potential...

    The real reason why they won't get a burst heal is because there are varied builds in the game, and massive performance swings between builds in this game.

    That players use the same builds or won't change how they build doesn't change the fact that someone else has or will.

    That said, honestly, I wouldn't even slot a specific burst heal over healing ward even if it were available. I don't do it on my mag templar, mag DK, nor mag sorc.

    Most of the times you'd use a burst heal on a mag char you are already dead if you don't have stam, and if you have stam roll+healing ward is effective enough to not bother wasting a skill slot.

    If anything a burst heal on the class would only be a stam NB buff.

    I personally find healing ward unreliable as if a nearby ally has less HP than you the ward goes to them. Strong, yes, but not vey reliable, and in PvP reliability is king. Think a magBlade would have a much better time using Combat Prayer, Strife if they're lucky, or Sap Essence.
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • Andre_Noir
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    After some time I would say that it became even worse than before
  • Jameson18
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    I haven't had the chance to read through the thread. Nor have I had a chance to play my NBs since the patch.

    I will say, the other toons I've been playing since patch hit (testing new builds etc.) all have Inner or Hunter slotted. - NB's stand absolutely no chance. As soon as one presents themselves, I basically just mercilessly chase them down real quick and then move on.

    Causes me a little concern as I'm going to be cycling new builds etc. on my NB's next week prolly. :expressionless:

    Edit:
    To be fair though. I was literally "that guy" on my NBs and basically spammed mark on enemy NBs whenever opportunity comes so myself, my teammates or faction mates could kill them, so....
    Edited by Jameson18 on September 14, 2021 7:29PM
  • Bergzorn
    Bergzorn
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    Jameson18 wrote: »
    I will say, the other toons I've been playing since patch hit (testing new builds etc.) all have Inner or Hunter slotted. - NB's stand absolutely no chance. As soon as one presents themselves, I basically just mercilessly chase them down real quick and then move on.

    Yes, that's true. At least until you meet a good NB, especially Stamblade, using Cloak and Shade. There is just no way to catch a *competent* NB (1v1) that wants to get away, except if they have remarkably bad luck.

    no CP PvP PC/EU

    EP Zergborn
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    guild master, raid leader, janitor, and only member of Zergbored
  • REiiGN15
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    A lot of nb have have remarkably bad luck against me. Cloak is weird. They build their sets around it and it works phenomenal except when they're exposed and they're a glass cannon. First instinct of a exposed blade, get back into stealth.
  • DUTCH_REAPER
    DUTCH_REAPER
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    Imma need everyone to just stop talking about NB before attention is brought to them……

    These are not the droids you seek.
  • Tommy_The_Gun
    Tommy_The_Gun
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    Bergzorn wrote: »
    Jameson18 wrote: »
    I will say, the other toons I've been playing since patch hit (testing new builds etc.) all have Inner or Hunter slotted. - NB's stand absolutely no chance. As soon as one presents themselves, I basically just mercilessly chase them down real quick and then move on.

    Yes, that's true. At least until you meet a good NB, especially Stamblade, using Cloak and Shade. There is just no way to catch a *competent* NB (1v1) that wants to get away, except if they have remarkably bad luck.
    Campaign their "shade" works in 90% of the time. The other 10% is like trying to catch that one mag sorc who builds specifically to streak away (extra mag sustain + speed). It is impossible, unless you are mag sorc too with similar build.
  • PhoenixGrey
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    Bergzorn wrote: »
    Jameson18 wrote: »
    I will say, the other toons I've been playing since patch hit (testing new builds etc.) all have Inner or Hunter slotted. - NB's stand absolutely no chance. As soon as one presents themselves, I basically just mercilessly chase them down real quick and then move on.

    Yes, that's true. At least until you meet a good NB, especially Stamblade, using Cloak and Shade. There is just no way to catch a *competent* NB (1v1) that wants to get away, except if they have remarkably bad luck.
    Campaign their "shade" works in 90% of the time. The other 10% is like trying to catch that one mag sorc who builds specifically to streak away (extra mag sustain + speed). It is impossible, unless you are mag sorc too with similar build.

    If you can "SEE" a sorc streaking, you can certainly catch it
  • DrSlaughtr
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    rbfrgsp wrote: »
    The best thing is, with being able to start a gank with a guaranteed Uppercut crit with vampire bonus to weapon damage and dealing damage from 3 skills, 1 medium attack, 1 light attack all within 1 GCD makes Cloak worth it for me.

    Which is why they should have looked at the slight OP synergy with vampirism rather than nerf the Nightblade toolkit.

    If vampirism weapon damage buff applied only to vampire line skills, it would be abused far less. As it is, it synergise HARD with Cloak, so the "problem solvers" reworked Cloak rather than the root cause of the problem.

    No one "abuses" the weapon damage buff. They use the mechanic as it's written.

    And by allowing it to only affect vampire skills, you just killed vampire. How many people you see running around using those skills in pvp? Other than mist? Zero. Bombers used to use frenzy but with mechanical it's not necessary.

    The only thing more ridiculous in this thread than the above are those saying cloak was nerfed. It now works as it was always meant to work, which is a good thing because bs spamming of skills no longer pulls you out.
    I drink and I stream things.
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  • rbfrgsp
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    When vampirism is incentivised to the point of being necessity, it is overtuned.

    And it's a flat buff across all classes, which means it settles differently based on how it synergises with each.

    And that leads people to think it is the underlying class which is overtuned and requires nerfing.

    Which leads to the base class to being underperforming if you play the vanilla version of the class.

    If the games designers compartmentalised their buffs a little more (so NB buffs affect NB skills, vamp passives affect vamp skills, etc) then maybe they would find they can balance the game a lot better and have less work.

    As for the longer Cloak discussion, I found that the issue I and others have been having is based on increasingly poor lag. It is so bad that dodge rolling does not mitigate damage for me at the moment. This removes one of the final "reaction time / twitch reflex" gameplay elements, making outcomes increasingly decided by internet connection. As a consequence I've stopped playing so I don't really care.
    Edited by rbfrgsp on September 18, 2021 8:19AM
  • divnyi
    divnyi
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    Ok, so now that I played a lot as a ganker this patch, I must say:

    Cloak is absolutely godlike now. It's direct counters (magelight, pots) are now buffed really hard, but it doesn't lose cloak on:
    1. Incomming DoT damage
    2. Outgoing DoT damage!

    So it leaves out only AoE direct hits and anti-cloak tools mentioned above. I am able to escape after bombs with just cloak unless I'm bursted in action.

    Overall, cloak mechanics and counters are the best through the years.
    We often say that ZOS don't know a thing about their game, but hell, definitely not this time. Cloak rework is amazing, period.
  • rbfrgsp
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    ^^ If they could build a game where the same skill worked the same for everyone they might have a marketable product on their hands!
  • ResidentContrarian
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    WhyEvenTry wrote: »
    Healing ward and roll works wonders on ma NB, esp. since healing ward is arguably the strongest heal in the game and NB also has the most healing potential...

    Can you please do me a favor and explain how you come to the conclusion that healing ward is the strongest heal in the game.


    Also, the title of this thread should be changed to “Dark cloak has essentially been removed from the game” With the recent nerf it received, which no one was asking for, and this buff to invis cloak there is little to no reason at all to use dark cloak instead of invis.

    So buff dark cloak please. :smile:

    Scales more than any other heal in the game, has highest potential out of any other heal in the game.
  • Andre_Noir
    Andre_Noir
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    WhyEvenTry wrote: »
    Healing ward and roll works wonders on ma NB, esp. since healing ward is arguably the strongest heal in the game and NB also has the most healing potential...

    Can you please do me a favor and explain how you come to the conclusion that healing ward is the strongest heal in the game.


    Also, the title of this thread should be changed to “Dark cloak has essentially been removed from the game” With the recent nerf it received, which no one was asking for, and this buff to invis cloak there is little to no reason at all to use dark cloak instead of invis.

    So buff dark cloak please. :smile:

    Scales more than any other heal in the game, has highest potential out of any other heal in the game.

    cut by half on shield and then cut by half heal for that shield so it's very far from "best" in pvp
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