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Dark Convergence and other AOE set&skill mechanics have finally leveled the playing field!
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LarsS✭✭✭✭✭
I disagree, but anyhow procsets makes the balance even worser.
GM for The Daggerfall Authority EU PC2 -
Baphomet✭✭✭✭✭
✭What the heck is the OP on about?
These new sets have only made ball-groups stronger.
Epic fail from Zenimax this time.- The Psijic Order
- TKO
- Dominant Dominion
- The Noore8 -
Magio_✭✭✭✭
How is Dark Convergence "broken mechanics"?How is purge spam and overstacking of heals "broken mechanics"?
You have access to purge spam. All you need to do is make a dedicated purge bot build and voila, you can now use that "broken mechanic" to aid your faction. Same with healing.
You have access to Dark Convergence. All you need to do is wear a 5 piece set and voila, you can now use that "broken mechanic" to aid your faction. Same with Hrothgar's.
That's a weak argument lol.5 -
Recapitated✭✭✭✭Sandman929 wrote: »I still think a set is a lazy way to address problematic mechanics.
Addressing problematic mechanics removes the ability to exploit those mechanics, when you do this with a set, the set becomes ubiquitous.
With these band-aid solutions there are two outcomes. The set only becomes ubiquitous if there's little tradeoff involved. That's why aside from plaguebreak the RFTW sets are being used in every possible context.
When there is a tradeoff involved, even a minor one like having both detection potions and whatever else you want in your character's inventory, it doesn't become ubiquitous. Instead you get feast-or-famine scenarios where you're either very well equipped to counter a playstyle or you're gimped against others.Edited by Recapitated on September 6, 2021 9:31PM0 -
ResidentContrarian✭✭✭✭✭Recapitated wrote: »Sandman929 wrote: »I still think a set is a lazy way to address problematic mechanics.
Addressing problematic mechanics removes the ability to exploit those mechanics, when you do this with a set, the set becomes ubiquitous.
With these band-aid solutions there are two outcomes. The set only becomes ubiquitous if there's little tradeoff involved. That's why aside from plaguebreak it's being used in every possible context.
When there is a tradeoff involved, even a minor one like having both detection potions and whatever else you want on your character, it doesn't become ubiquitous. Instead you get feast-or-famine scenarios where you're either very well equipped to counter a playstyle or you're gimped against others.
It's funny how plaguebreak, the set that changed purge spam across the entire PvP landscape, is arguably the only balanced one introduced. It's also the least used out of all of them because it's not good enough in a general sense.
Though honestly, even plaguebreak can use a reduction on that DoT time to 6-7 seconds since its not really counterable if any DK slots it and stacks DoTs on you.1 -
Recapitated✭✭✭✭ResidentContrarian wrote: »Recapitated wrote: »Sandman929 wrote: »I still think a set is a lazy way to address problematic mechanics.
Addressing problematic mechanics removes the ability to exploit those mechanics, when you do this with a set, the set becomes ubiquitous.
With these band-aid solutions there are two outcomes. The set only becomes ubiquitous if there's little tradeoff involved. That's why aside from plaguebreak it's being used in every possible context.
When there is a tradeoff involved, even a minor one like having both detection potions and whatever else you want on your character, it doesn't become ubiquitous. Instead you get feast-or-famine scenarios where you're either very well equipped to counter a playstyle or you're gimped against others.
It's funny how plaguebreak, the set that changed purge spam across the entire PvP landscape, is arguably the only balanced one introduced. It's also the least used out of all of them because it's not good enough in a general sense.
Though honestly, even plaguebreak can use a reduction on that DoT time to 6-7 seconds since its not really counterable if any DK slots it and stacks DoTs on you.
I have no strong opinions on it, I just know it's just not showing up that much in BGs0 -
Vizirith✭✭✭✭Ball groups have been buffed every single patch for about a year now, rest assured zos will rectify this mistake and continue buffing them.2
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Tiphis✭✭✭✭Be in a ball group or don't play at objectives. Stick to the occasional rock and try to defend it.0 -
spacefracking✭✭✭✭Plaguebreak solved a legit problem. Could be less strong.
Dark convergence is buggy trash that has fundementally reshaped all of combat around it, and has become the meta for every class.
Hrothgar is a giant pile of ???. Everyone who PVPs specs a reasonable amount of armor. Only problematic troll tanks stack all of the champion point slottables into damage mitigation, block cost, block mitigation, major protection, and minor protection.
Hrothgar isn't hurting them. Though it will hurt anyone who stands around them. Basically, it just seems like an idea that didn't work out, and seems very exploitable as well.2 -
TwiceBornStar✭✭✭✭Never in any game have I seen this wierd entitled mindset that solo or smaller groups of players should be able to combat or defeat larger organized groups of players. It's very bizarre.
Also, these sets won't change anything. The larger groups can use these sets too, and they are so overtuned right now that they are just as effective at killing small groups of players.
Yeah. Exactly this.1 -
Sheuib✭✭✭✭Ball groups actively avoid each other. Ball groups are not going to back keeps expecting to find an enemy ball group.
You can't ignore ball groups because if you do they take tri keeps and scrolls and force the issue.
No one is killing a ball group with just one or two people even with the new sets. Sure you might be solo out there or with a friend but there is also a lot of other people involved when a ball group actually dies. Yeah you might have been the person that placed the crucial negate or got the killing blow on their purge spammer but it wasn't all you.
So saying that a ball group shouldn't be killed by a smaller group is actually the opposite of what is happening. It is actually taking a larger group of pugs to kill a ball group and this is with the new sets. Before even a larger group of pugs would not kill a ball group.
The heals a ball group produces are only an issue because of purge spamming. If you can CC or immobilize players in the ball group you can break them up and kill the whole group. There are just as many heals flying around in a zerg but there is no one dedicated to spamming purge. This is why a ball group can kill a zerg.
CC and immobilizers is what made ball groups so effective. The best ball groups always had dedicated CC and immobilizer players that locked down everyone in front of them. And, without a dedicated purge spammer for those people in front of them, by the time they were able to break free and roll dodge to get out of both the CC and immobilize they were already dead because of the constant AOE spam and at least one eye of the storm running.
Plaguebreaker makes purge spamming unacceptable. This levels the playing field. Now ball groups have to deal with CC and immobilizers the same as the rest of us.
Calling a ball group skilled is a joke. I could produce the same results with just me and 11 bots that spam a couple of abilities and ultimates. The only person really playing is the group leader.5 -
Greasytengu✭✭✭✭✭spacefracking wrote: »Plaguebreak solved a legit problem. Could be less strong.
Dark convergence is buggy trash that has fundementally reshaped all of combat around it, and has become the meta for every class.
Hrothgar is a giant pile of ???. Everyone who PVPs specs a reasonable amount of armor. Only problematic troll tanks stack all of the champion point slottables into damage mitigation, block cost, block mitigation, major protection, and minor protection.
Hrothgar isn't hurting them. Though it will hurt anyone who stands around them. Basically, it just seems like an idea that didn't work out, and seems very exploitable as well.
Plaguebreak would be fine if you could only have one instance of the plague up at any one time.
Dark convergence really needs to pick one of its effects and ditch the rest. Either it pulls, stuns, or has ramping damage, but should not have all three. At this point, it out performs most ultimates.
Hrothgar should ditch the AOE. It should only punish tanky players, not the people around the tanky players." I nEeD HeAlInG!!! "2 -
WreckfulAbandon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Should not have a CC at all, definitely not a pull, and the damage scaling needs to change so if it only hits 1 or 2 players it doesn't hit too hard. I'm fine with the scaling at 12+ players being obscenely high; I like the idea of anti-stacking set, but not if you can bomb solo players with it.PC NA
All my comments are regarding PvP2 -
Photosniper89✭✭✭✭✭FINALLY we are able to play in a Cyrodiil where smaller groups have a fair chance at putting up a fight. Steam rolling through players isn't as trivial as it used to be. The ball groups have to adapt and play smarter now, which is so refreshing to be honest. Balling up in a tight 12 person heal machine isn't the same 1 trick pony that it used to be. Due to Plaguebreak, the ball groups will need to be mindful use purge at the right moment instead of having it in their rotation. Dark Convergence and Proxy Det will force them to actually spread out once in a while. The playing field has been leveled my friends. This is good news for all of us. Even ball groups should be happy that they will have a new changeling to crack.
Lol. Nice take.
It's simple, ball groups don't have to purge anymore. Easy.
Literally took one raid to figure out how to counter the new sets.3 -
MEBengalsFan2001✭✭✭✭✭I'm a solo PvPer/smallscaler, and I don't think any mechanic/set that allows 1 person/small group to completely wipe a larger coordinated group should exist in the game. It's broken gameplay at its core.
Instead of introducing sets to counter ball groups, ZOS needs to attack the mechanics that make ball groups strong in the first place. Diminishing cross heals with increasing group size, capping group heals, capping AoE purge, etc. are much better and more balanced at limiting a large group's strength than what we currently have in this new patch.
Dark Convergence issue isn't about the damage it does. It is the fact that it pulls you in after half a second pass, than it stuns you for 1 second. This give you the player roughly 2 seconds to break free and roll out of the AOE before you get hit. That isn't much time. The issue here is how much Crowd Control utility the set provides. Add to this you also have to deal with the crowd control feature of the ability that triggered Dark Convergence.
Looking over the set, I would recommend removing the stun from it. This may help a bit in avoiding it.1
No procsets, what counts is skill and teamwork.