Okay why did ZOS think it was a good idea to introduce these sets for PvP?

Jameson18

MadeInVN wrote: »

deflorate wrote: »

They're fine. Sets are for diversity and people need to stop hanging on to one single build and change things up.

There is no such thing as diversity when 90% of cyrodiil and bg will be running these 3 sets. Do you even PvP?

Funny. The no proc no cp campaign that "no one wanted" is probably about to be quite busy by default. Its almost as if they knew what they were about to do...

Interesting.

luen79rwb17_ESO

And the cherry on top of that set is the newest templar cheese with backlash/potl spam. You either swallow your backlash or get punished with your own cleanse. A very clear lose-lose situation where the templar totally dominates and all you're left is with the very lame gameplay of trying to counter this, counter that.

neferpitou73

Greasytengu wrote: »

ZOS: "We have heard your concerns about the proc set meta and made procs dependant on stats for damage."


Also ZOS: "Hey check out these new OP proc sets!!"

They never think about the consequences of their sets before they add them.

SkadiMZ wrote: »

I haven't played this game long enough to see shifts in the meta, but is this potentially what is happening here?

It seems the go to in recent patches has been to stack high resists and become as tanky as possible, get to ~30k health and then put the rest into damage or use malacath.

Now that sets like this exist, doesn't it just signal a change to the meta? I know someone mentioned it previously by saying something along the lines of "low resist, high hp" and I believe they're right. Mitigation options have increased, so maybe stop wearing pariah and fortified brass?

What's happened here is that the meta has become tanky over the last couple of patches due to increased damage, which is extremely annoying because noone dies in pvp. To solve this problem the only thing that really needs to be done is making sure the insanely tanky builds can't do any damage. It needs to be a trade-off between damage and survivability.

ZOS' solution, as their solutions always are, is a band-aid fix to an unhealthy meta. Instead of properly balancing things, they've decided to just invent a broken set that makes killing tanky players easier. A design philosophy, I might add, that has lead to the entire no-proc fiasco we're facing now.

Dark Convergence and Plague Breaker are similar stories. Plague Breaker in particular is obnoxious. New healers entering Cyrodiil playing in groups are going to purge out of habit and get their entire group killed. All again because ZOS couldn't find a way to balance their own mechanics.

ResidentContrarian

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Dark Convergence and Plague Breaker are similar stories. Plague Breaker in particular is obnoxious. New healers entering Cyrodiil playing in groups are going to purge out of habit and get their entire group killed. All again because ZOS couldn't find a way to balance their own mechanics.

Actually, they could and easily did with cost increase and CD on purge spam. But players decided to flood the forums with complaints and pretend that those solutions were unfair with silly counterarguments like

Purge should be strong because it takes coordination or some other form of drivel that amounted to don't nerf purge because we said so.

Now, that statement that ball groups are hard and always play with tight coordination is being put to the test with these sets and spamming purge is not the best idea in all scenarios. Guess what the result is?

Looks like the result is they can't handle it, just like they couldn't handle the increased damage from siege.

And now that they can't handle something, the sentiment is think of the poor ball groups or stacked players?

Also, if new healers entering Cyro's only job is to spam purge in a group and be effective then it is all the proof someone needs to claim the skill is overtuned and poorly thought out itself.

Without these sets, tanks and purge spam themselves are way overtuned and so are most of the sets being used. Advocate for a nerf of purge, absolute cap to damage reduction, and all the other "obnoxious" things in PvP and then I am sure no one would disagree the set is strong.

But even then, it is only strong when you happen to use one mechanic or if you are tanky. Yeah, doesn't really sound like a problem to me.

neferpitou73

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Dark Convergence and Plague Breaker are similar stories. Plague Breaker in particular is obnoxious. New healers entering Cyrodiil playing in groups are going to purge out of habit and get their entire group killed. All again because ZOS couldn't find a way to balance their own mechanics.

Actually, they could and easily did with cost increase and CD on purge spam. But players decided to flood the forums with complaints and pretend that those solutions were unfair with silly counterarguments like

Purge should be strong because it takes coordination or some other form of drivel that amounted to don't nerf purge because we said so.

Now, that statement that ball groups are hard and always play with tight coordination is being put to the test with these sets and spamming purge is not the best idea in all scenarios. Guess what the result is?

Looks like the result is they can't handle it, just like they couldn't handle the increased damage from siege.

And now that they can't handle something, the sentiment is think of the poor ball groups or stacked players?

Also, if new healers entering Cyro's only job is to spam purge in a group and be effective then it is all the proof someone needs to claim the skill is overtuned and poorly thought out itself.

Without these sets, tanks and purge spam themselves are way overtuned and so are most of the sets being used. Advocate for a nerf of purge, absolute cap to damage reduction, and all the other "obnoxious" things in PvP and then I am sure no one would disagree the set is strong.

But even then, it is only strong when you happen to use one mechanic or if you are tanky. Yeah, doesn't really sound like a problem to me.

I love when people complain about purge as if people are just spamming it just to be jerks. The reason ball groups have purge spammers is that, because of siege purging is absolutely necessary in Cyrodiil. And if you don't believe me try to take a keep without it and see how far you get. Is it possible that purge is overtuned? Sure. Give it a slight nerf. But adding a set to the game that prevents people from purging is going to hurt everyone. Not just the ball groups.

What these sets are going to do is empty out Cyrodiil because noone is going to play with them in it. When people are dying because they can't purge away 6 dots from siege, they'll just leave.

AdamLAD

Why is Zos trying to "Fix" and Balance PvP by using sets. This will never work. These sets where supposedly to counter large groups. But why do that. PvP should be about promoting skill not just putting a set on and it doing the job for you. Countering large groups that stack should be balanced by applying debuffs the amount there is in the group. Also having more than one source of healing that stack such as rapid regeneration, should be less efficient the more stacks there is. Sets will never be able to balance the game only mechanical changes will.

ResidentContrarian

neferpitou73 wrote: »

I love when people complain about purge as if people are just spamming it just to be jerks. The reason ball groups have purge spammers is that, because of siege purging is absolutely necessary in Cyrodiil. And if you don't believe me try to take a keep without it and see how far you get. Is it possible that purge is overtuned? Sure. Give it a slight nerf. But adding a set to the game that prevents people from purging is going to hurt everyone. Not just the ball groups.

What these sets are going to do is empty out Cyrodiil because noone is going to play with them in it. When people are dying because they can't purge away 6 dots from siege, they'll just leave.

Actually, it's not absolutely necessary to take a keep considering uncoordinated groups take keeps all the time without purge spam. What purge spam does do is give you a massive advantage vs anyone that doesn't have it.

You're entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is not fact.

Also, despite the sets, other groups are still managing to run. What does that really say about your complaints?

RaikaNA

VaranisArano wrote: »

Why did ZOS add those sets?

Because everything else ZOS has tried to nerf ballgroups has failed, usually making the ballgroups either stronger than opponents or just plain stronger.

And so ZOS tried to hand small scale and pug players a bunch of sets that are theoretically designed to destroy ballgroups...and is hoping and praying that the ball groups don't (predictably) use those sets to destroy their less organized opponents in turn.

Sorry, but BG balance took a back seat to the complaints of Cyrodiil players this time.

Wait a min.... ZOS tried nerfing ballgroups? When did that ever happen? This is news for me...If you wanna nerf ballgroups... you don't need to nerf people's sets...... just bring back the OP coldfires...

ResidentContrarian

RaikaNA wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Why did ZOS add those sets?

Because everything else ZOS has tried to nerf ballgroups has failed, usually making the ballgroups either stronger than opponents or just plain stronger.

And so ZOS tried to hand small scale and pug players a bunch of sets that are theoretically designed to destroy ballgroups...and is hoping and praying that the ball groups don't (predictably) use those sets to destroy their less organized opponents in turn.

Sorry, but BG balance took a back seat to the complaints of Cyrodiil players this time.

Wait a min.... ZOS tried nerfing ballgroups? When did that ever happen? This is news for me...If you wanna nerf ballgroups... you don't need to nerf people's sets...... just bring back the OP coldfires...

But if siege really worked, then ballgroups couldn't use their superior tactics to show everyone how real PvP is done!

Hold on, gotta use my superior tactic of hitting the "1" button. I slotted purge there and it's easy to remember since it's the "1" button, pretty tactical, am I right?

CSose

These sets are already causing obvious performance issues in game. I think it's the Dark Convergence that pulls you, stuns you, then kills you that is the worst offender of the new sets, but it's still early. It looks like when these sets are used by more people the server is going to melt under the load.

Varana

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Actually, they could and easily did with cost increase and CD on purge spam.

And again, we run into the issue of PvE and PvP. Unless the skill is made to work differently, healers burning all their magicka purging 8 or 10 players in a trial group and being unable to do anything (including purge again) for some time, is guaranteed to screw over PvE healers and their groups.

ResidentContrarian

CSose wrote: »

These sets are already causing obvious performance issues in game. I think it's the Dark Convergence that pulls you, stuns you, then kills you that is the worst offender of the new sets, but it's still early. It looks like when these sets are used by more people the server is going to melt under the load.

And yet all it takes is a break free and roll to get away from it...Granted, that may be lag-dependent. I have not had any issues doing so.

Varana wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Actually, they could and easily did with cost increase and CD on purge spam.

And again, we run into the issue of PvE and PvP. Unless the skill is made to work differently, healers burning all their magicka purging 8 or 10 players in a trial group and being unable to do anything (including purge again) for some time, is guaranteed to screw over PvE healers and their groups.

True, but ZOS had already used battle spirit to target specific skills during the testing. Guess which test was most effective at making ball groups vanish or lose their absolute advantage? The ones that targeted purge...

Everyone should know by now that purge is a large part of the ballgroup problem. If not, join one, don't use purge or purge sets and see the results...

Sandman929

neferpitou73 wrote: »

The reason ball groups have purge spammers is that, because of siege purging is absolutely necessary in Cyrodiil. And if you don't believe me try to take a keep without it and see how far you get..

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Actually, it's not absolutely necessary to take a keep considering uncoordinated groups take keeps all the time without purge spam. What purge spam does do is give you a massive advantage vs anyone that doesn't have it.

This...most keeps are taken without purge spamming. It's not necessary, but without purge spam, groups can't stand in siege as though it's nothing.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

Proc set, no proc set, proc set with conditions (relative to HP, max stats or spell/weapon damage)...ok now let's introduce a 19k hitting proc set...I don't get the logic behind decisions is all. It could be fun, but where's the committent to making the balance again....don't just try and sell ESO+ for the dungeon

TequilaFire

Ball groups will adapt and use these sets to their advantage, just wait and see.

VaranisArano

Sandman929 wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

The reason ball groups have purge spammers is that, because of siege purging is absolutely necessary in Cyrodiil. And if you don't believe me try to take a keep without it and see how far you get..

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Actually, it's not absolutely necessary to take a keep considering uncoordinated groups take keeps all the time without purge spam. What purge spam does do is give you a massive advantage vs anyone that doesn't have it.

This...most keeps are taken without purge spamming. It's not necessary, but without purge spam, groups can't stand in siege as though it's nothing.

So, ah, I trust that people won't complain when PvDoor makes a resurgence, like it did during the Summerset patch when ZOS buffed siege, right?

After all, if you can't stand in siege fire, the best way to survive is to smash the keep open before any defenders arrive.

Oh, who am I kidding. If guilds move to PvDoor, everyone will complain about it.

neferpitou73

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

The reason ball groups have purge spammers is that, because of siege purging is absolutely necessary in Cyrodiil. And if you don't believe me try to take a keep without it and see how far you get..

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Actually, it's not absolutely necessary to take a keep considering uncoordinated groups take keeps all the time without purge spam. What purge spam does do is give you a massive advantage vs anyone that doesn't have it.

This...most keeps are taken without purge spamming. It's not necessary, but without purge spam, groups can't stand in siege as though it's nothing.

So, ah, I trust that people won't complain when PvDoor makes a resurgence, like it did during the Summerset patch when ZOS buffed siege, right?

After all, if you can't stand in siege fire, the best way to survive is to smash the keep open before any defenders arrive.

Oh, who am I kidding. If guilds move to PvDoor, everyone will complain about it.

Exactly. And we're not just talking about purge spamming. We're talking about casting any form of self purge if you happen to have that effect on you. Will be impossible to use ram.

ResidentContrarian

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

The reason ball groups have purge spammers is that, because of siege purging is absolutely necessary in Cyrodiil. And if you don't believe me try to take a keep without it and see how far you get..

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Actually, it's not absolutely necessary to take a keep considering uncoordinated groups take keeps all the time without purge spam. What purge spam does do is give you a massive advantage vs anyone that doesn't have it.

This...most keeps are taken without purge spamming. It's not necessary, but without purge spam, groups can't stand in siege as though it's nothing.

So, ah, I trust that people won't complain when PvDoor makes a resurgence, like it did during the Summerset patch when ZOS buffed siege, right?

After all, if you can't stand in siege fire, the best way to survive is to smash the keep open before any defenders arrive.

Oh, who am I kidding. If guilds move to PvDoor, everyone will complain about it.

How exactly does purge being allowed to be spammed stop them from PvDooring?

In fact, ball groups that spam purge still do so anyway.

There is no link between the two that can be demonstrated.

CSose

Holy WOW! After only one more day of people putting these sets together it's already absolutely insane in IC and cyrodiil. A ganker wearing Dark Convergence just has to engage someone on a wall or ledge that was formerly safe, and next thing you know your down on the ground, stunned, and soon dead because break free doesn't work worth a damn in lag.

These new sets very well might be the straw that breaks the camels back for ESO PvP. Why would they do this right before completing the sale to MS?

universal_wrath

temerley wrote: »

Don't think it's photo-shopped.

19,386/0.26=74.5k

74.5k/2=~37k spell and phy resist which is believable, with pariah it can get even higher.

I can see this happening with say, balorgh and 2h ult.

You don't need to use balorgh or 2H ult to get this number, even without pen to can still get a similar number, lol.

universal_wrath

SkadiMZ wrote: »

MadeInVN wrote: »

The point completely flies over half of the people in this thread…

It probably would have helped if your initial post had more information other than "seriously why?" That leaves out a lot of context and I'm sure not everyone reads every single post thereafter to figure it out.

I don't see much of an issue with the set itself. It helps combat the infinitely tanky builds that are present in BGs. I will say, I do agree that the proc should not be AOE.

I know this was meant to be a ball group buster, but the unintended effect on BGs is certainly unfortunate. Maybe either make it single target or lower the damage a bit. This set always seemed to be best used against a tanky opponent, which it looks like it accomplished. Punishing everyone else around a tank/tanky healer obviously seems problematic, as how tanky your allies are is most times out of your control.

I don't think ball groups have that much resist, they usualy rely on manuverability. However maybe the case, this already dies a lot of damage ti players with average 30k resist of both spell and physical combined. A target does not need to be tanky to recieve 5k+ damage from a set that require basis combat skill. It should not be doing AOE damage as this counter the teamwork part of any group. If it still kept as AOE, it should have an internal cooldown per person like azure blight were you cannot be damage again until after certain period of time.

Pepegrillos

People give feedback on this kind of stuff again and again. The PTS forums are full of threads about sets that will be overtuned once they go live. And they just go live.

merevie

What is being done about this set?
Tick toc on the clock for zos
One month left to bring the year of performance
and make pvp playable
Tick tock tick tock

ResidentContrarian

CSose wrote: »

Holy WOW! After only one more day of people putting these sets together it's already absolutely insane in IC and cyrodiil. A ganker wearing Dark Convergence just has to engage someone on a wall or ledge that was formerly safe, and next thing you know your down on the ground, stunned, and soon dead because break free doesn't work worth a damn in lag.

These new sets very well might be the straw that breaks the camels back for ESO PvP. Why would they do this right before completing the sale to MS?

False statement. Well, it could be true if you could not be bothered to roll or use a build that allowed you to and ran in a group. In that case, that's a build problem and a choice you have made.

Also, I saw battles v. emperor with that set being used like candy and it rarely killed anyone. The players using it can confirm it isn't as effective as they think once players actually pay attention to the game. Players simply rolled out of the area, and the few that didn't sometimes died.

This is literally another case of players no longer being able to ignore damage and tank through everything complaining because they are dying. Let that sink in about how ridiculous that sounds.

Oh the humanity. A "skilled" ball group cannot crutch on purge spam anymore, a "skilled" ball group with a bunch of tank builds with no counter cannot sit in siege anymore, a "skilled" ball group now has to make movement and other decisions better now in order to fight instead of always having an absolute advantage.

Please...

And before anyone says it, no, I don't use any of those sets, never will, and aren't interested. The reason being because they aren't as good as players here make them seem, and any set that only gives a situational advantage is useless outside of a ball or faction stack unless you can force that situation to appear consistently.

MadeInVN

Welp I already knew it. For the past 2 days in IC I'm pretty much fighting at least 1 dark convergence user for every single fight. A lot of high mmr BG players are also in dark convergence/hrothgar/plaguebreak. It's no surprise that the meta is yet again dominated by 3 sets, and diversity is pretty much thrown out the window.

Sephyr

MadeInVN wrote: »

Welp I already knew it. For the past 2 days in IC I'm pretty much fighting at least 1 dark convergence user for every single fight. A lot of high mmr BG players are also in dark convergence/hrothgar/plaguebreak. It's no surprise that the meta is yet again dominated by 3 sets, and diversity is pretty much thrown out the window.

Question;

How often is it three sets? This is more side-curiosity than anything because I don't have to change my build much per patch, but I know a lot of duelists like yourself DO so I'm trying to see if there's some kind of pattern in meta changes and sets. Plus, my playstyle makes it where it's hard to track how often I encounter something and I see some pretty weird combos sometimes. But would you say that it's more often than not?

MadeInVN

Sephyr wrote: »

MadeInVN wrote: »

Welp I already knew it. For the past 2 days in IC I'm pretty much fighting at least 1 dark convergence user for every single fight. A lot of high mmr BG players are also in dark convergence/hrothgar/plaguebreak. It's no surprise that the meta is yet again dominated by 3 sets, and diversity is pretty much thrown out the window.

Question;

How often is it three sets? This is more side-curiosity than anything because I don't have to change my build much per patch, but I know a lot of duelists like yourself DO so I'm trying to see if there's some kind of pattern in meta changes and sets. Plus, my playstyle makes it where it's hard to track how often I encounter something and I see some pretty weird combos sometimes. But would you say that it's more often than not?

Quite often actually. For the past 2 days I've done around 3 hours of PvP in IC. At least 1 person in the groups I've fought wore dark convergence. It's usually a templar or magnecro as they have easy access to ground effects. Hrothgar is used on wardens, stamsorcs, and dks. Plaguebreak is more of a cyrodiil thing since it counters organized ball groups. But eventually when people start getting enough pieces for their sets you will see a lot more of them.

You can almost never go wrong with these 3 sets on your bar because they individually offer very strong burst damage/crowd control. I have several clips of my group fighting other groups who had dark convergence and the advantage is clear as day. Hrothgar is just straight up burst and depending on who get hit you can take around 5-8k procs. Plaguebreak wasn't an issue for me because I don't have a cleanse, but I showed a video above where a group of organized players wiped another larger group of also organized players by using plaguebreak.

PvP will be very imbalanced if these sets stay as they are.

Sephyr

MadeInVN wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

MadeInVN wrote: »

Welp I already knew it. For the past 2 days in IC I'm pretty much fighting at least 1 dark convergence user for every single fight. A lot of high mmr BG players are also in dark convergence/hrothgar/plaguebreak. It's no surprise that the meta is yet again dominated by 3 sets, and diversity is pretty much thrown out the window.

Question;

How often is it three sets? This is more side-curiosity than anything because I don't have to change my build much per patch, but I know a lot of duelists like yourself DO so I'm trying to see if there's some kind of pattern in meta changes and sets. Plus, my playstyle makes it where it's hard to track how often I encounter something and I see some pretty weird combos sometimes. But would you say that it's more often than not?

Quite often actually. For the past 2 days I've done around 3 hours of PvP in IC. At least 1 person in the groups I've fought wore dark convergence. It's usually a templar or magnecro as they have easy access to ground effects. Hrothgar is used on wardens, stamsorcs, and dks. Plaguebreak is more of a cyrodiil thing since it counters organized ball groups. But eventually when people start getting enough pieces for their sets you will see a lot more of them.

You can almost never go wrong with these 3 sets on your bar because they individually offer very strong burst damage/crowd control. I have several clips of my group fighting other groups who had dark convergence and the advantage is clear as day. Hrothgar is just straight up burst and depending on who get hit you can take around 5-8k procs. Plaguebreak wasn't an issue for me because I don't have a cleanse, but I showed a video above where a group of organized players wiped another larger group of also organized players by using plaguebreak.

PvP will be very imbalanced if these sets stay as they are.

Thanks for the data! It's really interesting to see another's perspective on what they primarily see. Ganking, the sets I see are honestly a blur because I'm not always in the middle of organized groups. I'm just picking the stragglers, or bombing and getting out of there as fast as I can so I don't die. I know that people are using VD and DC, but eeeeh. I just don't know if having enemies that close that might not die is the best advantage to my own playstyle. It might be effective for others due to that imbalance you mentioned, but I'm weighing all my options to spice something up and I don't wanna drop millions on something that's inevitably going to get nerfed. It sounds like these just might if this trend keeps up. Guess that means I'm really going to have to watch those spaces. 🤔

Red_Feather

Are the sets supposed to combat ball groups with "heal bots". Seems like it.

MadeInVN

Sephyr wrote: »

MadeInVN wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

MadeInVN wrote: »

Welp I already knew it. For the past 2 days in IC I'm pretty much fighting at least 1 dark convergence user for every single fight. A lot of high mmr BG players are also in dark convergence/hrothgar/plaguebreak. It's no surprise that the meta is yet again dominated by 3 sets, and diversity is pretty much thrown out the window.

Question;

How often is it three sets? This is more side-curiosity than anything because I don't have to change my build much per patch, but I know a lot of duelists like yourself DO so I'm trying to see if there's some kind of pattern in meta changes and sets. Plus, my playstyle makes it where it's hard to track how often I encounter something and I see some pretty weird combos sometimes. But would you say that it's more often than not?

Quite often actually. For the past 2 days I've done around 3 hours of PvP in IC. At least 1 person in the groups I've fought wore dark convergence. It's usually a templar or magnecro as they have easy access to ground effects. Hrothgar is used on wardens, stamsorcs, and dks. Plaguebreak is more of a cyrodiil thing since it counters organized ball groups. But eventually when people start getting enough pieces for their sets you will see a lot more of them.

You can almost never go wrong with these 3 sets on your bar because they individually offer very strong burst damage/crowd control. I have several clips of my group fighting other groups who had dark convergence and the advantage is clear as day. Hrothgar is just straight up burst and depending on who get hit you can take around 5-8k procs. Plaguebreak wasn't an issue for me because I don't have a cleanse, but I showed a video above where a group of organized players wiped another larger group of also organized players by using plaguebreak.

PvP will be very imbalanced if these sets stay as they are.

Thanks for the data! It's really interesting to see another's perspective on what they primarily see. Ganking, the sets I see are honestly a blur because I'm not always in the middle of organized groups. I'm just picking the stragglers, or bombing and getting out of there as fast as I can so I don't die. I know that people are using VD and DC, but eeeeh. I just don't know if having enemies that close that might not die is the best advantage to my own playstyle. It might be effective for others due to that imbalance you mentioned, but I'm weighing all my options to spice something up and I don't wanna drop millions on something that's inevitably going to get nerfed. It sounds like these just might if this trend keeps up. Guess that means I'm really going to have to watch those spaces. 🤔

Maybe you can enjoy the sets before they inevitably get nerfed. Most of my friends have already transitioned to using hrothgar/dark convergence/plaguebreak. They are quite easy to get through rewards of the worthy, so I can definitely see them being used more and more as the patch goes on. Believe it or not, hrothgar is very very good on a gankblade due to the proc condition. You have a 100% chance to proc it because of the stun from stealth. Not only that but you can basically become a "bombblade" with this set and soul tether. It's a fun but also imbalanced set lol.

What I do notice is dark convergence is slowly being countered by high mobility builds. However in a group fight it's still a massive advantage for the user because it pretty much offers a large CC. The most aids combo I've seen with dark convergence is by combining the set with an AoE immobilization. Unless you are a sorc, you are guaranteed to eat the proc, and it hurts. I've gotten hit for somewhere between 8-15k even when Im the only person in the vicinity.