TheEndBringer wrote: »This is exactly the problem. People will run it for the buff, not the actual skill.
TheEndBringer wrote: »This is exactly the problem. People will run it for the buff, not the actual skill.
So, like mage light and expert hunter...
TheEndBringer wrote: »This is exactly the problem. People will run it for the buff, not the actual skill.
So, like mage light and expert hunter...
WrathOfInnos wrote: »In seriousness, nobody would use Flare if it gave Minor Protection.
Leave Flare the way it is now. Major protection is only 10% mitigation at base. It is much less mitigation for tankier players due to the multiplicative effect. The change would help the players that are dying with no counter to NB stupid burst damage. Stealth detection skills should be powerful to begin with. You are slotting one skill to combat only one class.
If you make Flare useless again then consider imposing major penalties to cloak. The game has become hide and seek online!
TheEndBringer wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »This is exactly the problem. People will run it for the buff, not the actual skill.
So, like mage light and expert hunter...
They offer the same buff you get from potions. There's a huge difference.WrathOfInnos wrote: »In seriousness, nobody would use Flare if it gave Minor Protection.
Then make the skill work better. Don't give away major protection as a passive. Even only giving the buff while flare is active is a better compromise.Leave Flare the way it is now. Major protection is only 10% mitigation at base. It is much less mitigation for tankier players due to the multiplicative effect. The change would help the players that are dying with no counter to NB stupid burst damage. Stealth detection skills should be powerful to begin with. You are slotting one skill to combat only one class.
If you make Flare useless again then consider imposing major penalties to cloak. The game has become hide and seek online!
Yes it helps tanky players less which isn't the problem. The problem is that it will drastically help DDs be tankier with no cost.
Cloak has already been nerfed in the past. All you gotta do is break free and roll dodge a telegraphed skill. By rolling backward through the NB. They're either dead or running away to find a dumber target.
Or if it's a bomber don't get tunnel vision. They all use the same proc strategy. If you pay attention you'll see the proc more often than not. Wait for them to blow their ultimate then kill them.
Meanwhile they are buffing mage light and expert hunter to be WAY BETTER at detection. So that's exactly how you wouldn't run flare. But now people will run a crappier skill to get a buff, rather than run either light or hunter despite working better AND buffing damage.
TheEndBringer wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »This is exactly the problem. People will run it for the buff, not the actual skill.
So, like mage light and expert hunter...
They offer the same buff you get from potions. There's a huge difference.WrathOfInnos wrote: »In seriousness, nobody would use Flare if it gave Minor Protection.
Then make the skill work better. Don't give away major protection as a passive. Even only giving the buff while flare is active is a better compromise.Leave Flare the way it is now. Major protection is only 10% mitigation at base. It is much less mitigation for tankier players due to the multiplicative effect. The change would help the players that are dying with no counter to NB stupid burst damage. Stealth detection skills should be powerful to begin with. You are slotting one skill to combat only one class.
If you make Flare useless again then consider imposing major penalties to cloak. The game has become hide and seek online!
Yes it helps tanky players less which isn't the problem. The problem is that it will drastically help DDs be tankier with no cost.
Cloak has already been nerfed in the past. All you gotta do is break free and roll dodge a telegraphed skill. By rolling backward through the NB. They're either dead or running away to find a dumber target.
Or if it's a bomber don't get tunnel vision. They all use the same proc strategy. If you pay attention you'll see the proc more often than not. Wait for them to blow their ultimate then kill them.
Meanwhile they are buffing mage light and expert hunter to be WAY BETTER at detection. So that's exactly how you wouldn't run flare. But now people will run a crappier skill to get a buff, rather than run either light or hunter despite working better AND buffing damage.
You say with no cost, but giving up a bar slot is a pretty high cost. And it would only be effective on one bar, unless they double bar and give up two bar slots.
Major protection is strong but it’s only 10% and not 30% like before. Personally, I think it’s about time we get some benefit from having to slot it for times when we encounter a NB. Sure you can use a Detect potion but sometimes I would like the freedom to use something else when fighting a NB who can use his potion more effective since he can choose what and when they want to use it.
At least if not some unique 10% reduction like spirit guardian. Just imagine how much strong a Necro is going to be with it slotted as well.
Stay safe everyone and ZOS please fix the green tree micromanaging
TheEndBringer wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »This is exactly the problem. People will run it for the buff, not the actual skill.
So, like mage light and expert hunter...
They offer the same buff you get from potions. There's a huge difference.
TheEndBringer wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »This is exactly the problem. People will run it for the buff, not the actual skill.
So, like mage light and expert hunter...
They offer the same buff you get from potions. There's a huge difference.
Please provide recipe for potions that give 5% increased max magicka or minor berserk. Or provide guild passives.
TheEndBringer wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »This is exactly the problem. People will run it for the buff, not the actual skill.
So, like mage light and expert hunter...
They offer the same buff you get from potions. There's a huge difference.WrathOfInnos wrote: »In seriousness, nobody would use Flare if it gave Minor Protection.
Then make the skill work better. Don't give away major protection as a passive. Even only giving the buff while flare is active is a better compromise.Leave Flare the way it is now. Major protection is only 10% mitigation at base. It is much less mitigation for tankier players due to the multiplicative effect. The change would help the players that are dying with no counter to NB stupid burst damage. Stealth detection skills should be powerful to begin with. You are slotting one skill to combat only one class.
If you make Flare useless again then consider imposing major penalties to cloak. The game has become hide and seek online!
Yes it helps tanky players less which isn't the problem. The problem is that it will drastically help DDs be tankier with no cost.
Cloak has already been nerfed in the past. All you gotta do is break free and roll dodge a telegraphed skill. By rolling backward through the NB. They're either dead or running away to find a dumber target.
Or if it's a bomber don't get tunnel vision. They all use the same proc strategy. If you pay attention you'll see the proc more often than not. Wait for them to blow their ultimate then kill them.
Meanwhile they are buffing mage light and expert hunter to be WAY BETTER at detection. So that's exactly how you wouldn't run flare. But now people will run a crappier skill to get a buff, rather than run either light or hunter despite working better AND buffing damage.
UnassumingNoob wrote: »I don’t see any issue with it. I can’t find a character that could actually run it. The opportunity cost is bar space - which is at a premium.
TheEndBringer wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »This is exactly the problem. People will run it for the buff, not the actual skill.
So, like mage light and expert hunter...
They offer the same buff you get from potions. There's a huge difference.WrathOfInnos wrote: »In seriousness, nobody would use Flare if it gave Minor Protection.
Then make the skill work better. Don't give away major protection as a passive. Even only giving the buff while flare is active is a better compromise.Leave Flare the way it is now. Major protection is only 10% mitigation at base. It is much less mitigation for tankier players due to the multiplicative effect. The change would help the players that are dying with no counter to NB stupid burst damage. Stealth detection skills should be powerful to begin with. You are slotting one skill to combat only one class.
If you make Flare useless again then consider imposing major penalties to cloak. The game has become hide and seek online!
Yes it helps tanky players less which isn't the problem. The problem is that it will drastically help DDs be tankier with no cost.
Cloak has already been nerfed in the past. All you gotta do is break free and roll dodge a telegraphed skill. By rolling backward through the NB. They're either dead or running away to find a dumber target.
Or if it's a bomber don't get tunnel vision. They all use the same proc strategy. If you pay attention you'll see the proc more often than not. Wait for them to blow their ultimate then kill them.
Meanwhile they are buffing mage light and expert hunter to be WAY BETTER at detection. So that's exactly how you wouldn't run flare. But now people will run a crappier skill to get a buff, rather than run either light or hunter despite working better AND buffing damage.
Well that's the idea isn't it? DD players would be a little tankier and not be one shot by a NB out of stealth. Even NB can use the skill if they think is so great to have one slot just for this, which I doubt it! Come to think of it NB can slot flare too and waste one slot. ZOS brilliant!!!
TheEndBringer wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »This is exactly the problem. People will run it for the buff, not the actual skill.
So, like mage light and expert hunter...
They offer the same buff you get from potions. There's a huge difference.
Please provide recipe for potions that give 5% increased max magicka or minor berserk. Or provide guild passives.
UnassumingNoob wrote: »I don’t see any issue with it. I can’t find a character that could actually run it. The opportunity cost is bar space - which is at a premium.
itscompton wrote: »UnassumingNoob wrote: »I don’t see any issue with it. I can’t find a character that could actually run it. The opportunity cost is bar space - which is at a premium.
Maybe for your builds and playstyle, but there will be tons of tanky high recovery Necro trolls that have plenty of room to slot it with DB, Boneyard, and Blastbones being all that's needed for offense. They can have spirit guardian, flare, and the Psijic ult on the back bar for huge mitigation as they kite and once they've let people run all their resources out futilely chasing they flip bars and drop their 3 move AOE burst combo for the kills. If anyone chasing is still alive they just flip to the defensive bar and start kiting again.
This is already a thing on the live servers but it's going to be much easier to do successfully in the next patch with the extra mitigation from flare and battle spirit allowing Necros to shift builds towards even more sustain or upping their own damage.
propertyOfUndefined wrote: »I personally think it's fine. Give players more options for build diversity.
A skill slot is a big deal.
WrathOfInnos wrote: »itscompton wrote: »UnassumingNoob wrote: »I don’t see any issue with it. I can’t find a character that could actually run it. The opportunity cost is bar space - which is at a premium.
Maybe for your builds and playstyle, but there will be tons of tanky high recovery Necro trolls that have plenty of room to slot it with DB, Boneyard, and Blastbones being all that's needed for offense. They can have spirit guardian, flare, and the Psijic ult on the back bar for huge mitigation as they kite and once they've let people run all their resources out futilely chasing they flip bars and drop their 3 move AOE burst combo for the kills. If anyone chasing is still alive they just flip to the defensive bar and start kiting again.
This is already a thing on the live servers but it's going to be much easier to do successfully in the next patch with the extra mitigation from flare and battle spirit allowing Necros to shift builds towards even more sustain or upping their own damage.
Thank you for mentioning Spirit Guardian. That is a skill that gives 10% mitigation to the user, in addition to its primary function of healing. Sure you have to cast it every 16s, but it applies to both bars while being slotted only on one. SG is the perfect example of why Major Protection on Flare is fine.
Leave Flare the way it is now. Major protection is only 10% mitigation at base. It is much less mitigation for tankier players due to the multiplicative effect. The change would help the players that are dying with no counter to NB stupid burst damage. Stealth detection skills should be powerful to begin with. You are slotting one skill to combat only one class.
If you make Flare useless again then consider imposing major penalties to cloak. The game has become hide and seek online!
spacefracking wrote: »Leave Flare the way it is now. Major protection is only 10% mitigation at base. It is much less mitigation for tankier players due to the multiplicative effect. The change would help the players that are dying with no counter to NB stupid burst damage. Stealth detection skills should be powerful to begin with. You are slotting one skill to combat only one class.
If you make Flare useless again then consider imposing major penalties to cloak. The game has become hide and seek online!
^^^^^ this guy knows the math, and is correct. Finishing returns on each mitigation buff and debuff. Only resist and pen are additive. Speaking of which, eternal major breach from weakness to elements is an apocalyptic change for cyrodiil
TheEndBringer wrote: »spacefracking wrote: »Leave Flare the way it is now. Major protection is only 10% mitigation at base. It is much less mitigation for tankier players due to the multiplicative effect. The change would help the players that are dying with no counter to NB stupid burst damage. Stealth detection skills should be powerful to begin with. You are slotting one skill to combat only one class.
If you make Flare useless again then consider imposing major penalties to cloak. The game has become hide and seek online!
^^^^^ this guy knows the math, and is correct. Finishing returns on each mitigation buff and debuff. Only resist and pen are additive. Speaking of which, eternal major breach from weakness to elements is an apocalyptic change for cyrodiil
As multiple have said, no one cares about a 45k tank having free major protection. The issue is the 30k DD (especially Necro) getting another route to being a tank that can drop 20k executes.
WrathOfInnos wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »spacefracking wrote: »Leave Flare the way it is now. Major protection is only 10% mitigation at base. It is much less mitigation for tankier players due to the multiplicative effect. The change would help the players that are dying with no counter to NB stupid burst damage. Stealth detection skills should be powerful to begin with. You are slotting one skill to combat only one class.
If you make Flare useless again then consider imposing major penalties to cloak. The game has become hide and seek online!
^^^^^ this guy knows the math, and is correct. Finishing returns on each mitigation buff and debuff. Only resist and pen are additive. Speaking of which, eternal major breach from weakness to elements is an apocalyptic change for cyrodiil
As multiple have said, no one cares about a 45k tank having free major protection. The issue is the 30k DD (especially Necro) getting another route to being a tank that can drop 20k executes.
If you slot Flare that execute will only hit for 18k
WrathOfInnos wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »This is exactly the problem. People will run it for the buff, not the actual skill.
So, like mage light and expert hunter...
Change mage light and expert hunter to minor prophecy and minor savagery
In seriousness, nobody would use Flare if it gave Minor Protection. That is too easy to obtain other ways, better ways. It would be entirely useless on Templar and Warden, and I doubt many would choose to slot it over Temporal Guard (easier to fit since you only need one active ult and it also gives the shield while blocking).
WrathOfInnos wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »This is exactly the problem. People will run it for the buff, not the actual skill.
So, like mage light and expert hunter...
Change mage light and expert hunter to minor prophecy and minor savagery
In seriousness, nobody would use Flare if it gave Minor Protection. That is too easy to obtain other ways, better ways. It would be entirely useless on Templar and Warden, and I doubt many would choose to slot it over Temporal Guard (easier to fit since you only need one active ult and it also gives the shield while blocking).
There is a huge difference between major prophecy / savagery and major protection in terms of how easy it is to get though.
You can get get major prophecy on 4 and major savagery on 5 different skills, you have a set that passively grants the buff for both and you can easily get either by using a potion.
major protection on the other hand you can get on 3 ultimates, 2 of which are barely used at all and on 1 skill that requires you to have corpses around and still only gives you 1 second of major protection per corpse.
So while it is absolutely normal to see someone having a 100% uptime on major prophecy or savagery even without running mage light or camo hunter, major protection is rare to see at all and if you have it its nearly always only for a short time.
And to all the people who say that flare wont be run because you cant afford to waste the bar space for it, people are running mage light or camo hunter on their builds right now, even though it is really easy to get it in other ways, why do you think they would not just put flare on their backbar for 10% less incoming dmg?