Racing to complete anything

SeaGtGruff

Do the dolmens in Cyrodiil count for that achievement? I've almost never had anyone else run up and join in when I was doing a dolmen in Cyrodiil.

JoDiMageio

Jeebus...
I never would have labeled activating a pinion as a morally reprehensible act.
Peeps need to chill.

whitecrow

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Do the dolmens in Cyrodiil count for that achievement? I've almost never had anyone else run up and join in when I was doing a dolmen in Cyrodiil.

I'm sure any of them count. Cyrodiil is just much less populated.

colossalvoids

Just /s "let me do the pinions please" when someone arrives, problem solved. How on Nirn someone should predict anyone needs them without any communication given.

WiseSky

I agree its not Ideal, But maybe People are not Racing, Maybe they are Really Angry at the Mobs cause they are trying to help a poor NPC whos really needs their help

On PC I have an Addon that makes Everyone Invisible to me and I RP

Immersion Addons

SeaGtGruff

colossalvoids wrote: »

Just /s "let me do the pinions please" when someone arrives, problem solved. How on Nirn someone should predict anyone needs them without any communication given.

How on Nirn someone can even see another player coming? Whenever I've been soloing a dolmen, and got through the last wave only to have another player run up and tap the pinions, the player seemed to appear out of nowhere and was already in the process of tapping the pinions before I even noticed them. It didn't bother me, because I wasn't aware of any achievement related to it-- and now that I do know, I still don't care very much about that achievement, or any other achievement, so I still won't be letting it bother me.

But when have you ever had another player casually and slowly saunter up to a dolmen that was in progress and give you time to break away from what you were doing and type "please let me tap the pinions myself"? For that matter, would the other player even stop to see your message, read your message, and comprehend that your message was directed at them? And if they did, would they be courteous enough to oblige, or would they just go and tap the pinions anyway, then get toxic with you about how they have just as much right to be there as you do, go play Skyrim if you don't want to play with other people, I'm going to report you to ZOS for committing a TOS violation, etc.?

That last bit might sound pretty far-fetched, but unfortunately it isn't. Sometimes it seems like the safest way to interact with certain players is to actively avoid interacting with them at all.

Kiralyn2000

As an aside, I'd never even known those things were called "pinions" til this thread.

(and that'll be embarrassing, if the tooltip when you activate them says that. Of course, you're always activating them while dashing around in combat, so why even look at the tooltip beyond noting that it's there/you're on target. /shrug)

SilverBride

This reminds me of something that happened a couple of days ago in Elsweyr. A player actually asked in zone if we would all wait for him to arrive before we attack the dragon. I replied no we can't do that and was called selfish and many other names I can't put here by another player. But it is not reasonable to expect a large group of players, many of whom may not even see the request, in the middle of an event, to wait on one player.

colossalvoids

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Just /s "let me do the pinions please" when someone arrives, problem solved. How on Nirn someone should predict anyone needs them without any communication given.

How on Nirn someone can even see another player coming? Whenever I've been soloing a dolmen, and got through the last wave only to have another player run up and tap the pinions, the player seemed to appear out of nowhere and was already in the process of tapping the pinions before I even noticed them. It didn't bother me, because I wasn't aware of any achievement related to it-- and now that I do know, I still don't care very much about that achievement, or any other achievement, so I still won't be letting it bother me.

But when have you ever had another player casually and slowly saunter up to a dolmen that was in progress and give you time to break away from what you were doing and type "please let me tap the pinions myself"? For that matter, would the other player even stop to see your message, read your message, and comprehend that your message was directed at them? And if they did, would they be courteous enough to oblige, or would they just go and tap the pinions anyway, then get toxic with you about how they have just as much right to be there as you do, go play Skyrim if you don't want to play with other people, I'm going to report you to ZOS for committing a TOS violation, etc.?

That last bit might sound pretty far-fetched, but unfortunately it isn't. Sometimes it seems like the safest way to interact with certain players is to actively avoid interacting with them at all.

And because all of that the only thing you could do is to try to communicate, you not losing anything and it's the maximum you personally can do about it. Throughout the years I saw such requests not once and quite frankly I've never seen anyone ignoring such messaging. Other player can do whatever they want obviously as it is a public event still, but if the other side is keeping silent chances high your goals are staying unknown so it's hard to blame anyone for "ruining" anything.

MagmaFerret

SilverBride wrote: »

This reminds me of something that happened a couple of days ago in Elsweyr. A player actually asked in zone if we would all wait for him to arrive before we attack the dragon. I replied no we can't do that and was called selfish and many other names I can't put here by another player. But it is not reasonable to expect a large group of players, many of whom may not even see the request, in the middle of an event, to wait on one player.

Fair. I made the chat suggestion to try and placate the person who's calling other players "evil" and "immoral" for playing alongside them in an MMO.

DarcyMardin

There’s an achievement for popping pinions?? Asks she who has been playing since beta and has done thousands of dolmens.

Guess I should study those achievement lists more often. I also did not know that closing a pinion could give you dolmen credit if you hadn’t gotten a hit in…huh.

SeaGtGruff

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

As an aside, I'd never even known those things were called "pinions" til this thread.

(and that'll be embarrassing, if the tooltip when you activate them says that. Of course, you're always activating them while dashing around in combat, so why even look at the tooltip beyond noting that it's there/you're on target. /shrug)

Don't be embarrassed. One time I asked in zone chat whether anyone wanted to do a dolmen run-- because I was thinking of doing dolmens, which I can solo with no trouble, but I know that some new players might not be able to solo them yet and might want to clear all of them for map completion purposes. Someone asked "What's a dolmen?" I replied "It's where those things fall out of the sky and Daedra come out." And they said "Oh, if you'd called them anchors I would have known what you meant!" It turned out that this was a vet player, BTW. Like, they're literally called dolmens on the map and in the game.

SilverBride wrote: »

This reminds me of something that happened a couple of days ago in Elsweyr. A player actually asked in zone if we would all wait for him to arrive before we attack the dragon. I replied no we can't do that and was called selfish and many other names I can't put here by another player. But it is not reasonable to expect a large group of players, many of whom may not even see the request, in the middle of an event, to wait on one player.

It's not an unreasonable request, but it's also not an unreasonable reply. What I like to do is run up to a dragon that isn't being attacked yet (because I'm the only player there), attack it and try to stay alive while continuing to badger it, so the map icon will show that the dragon is engaged in combat, then hope someone else shows up to help.

colossalvoids wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Just /s "let me do the pinions please" when someone arrives, problem solved. How on Nirn someone should predict anyone needs them without any communication given.

How on Nirn someone can even see another player coming? Whenever I've been soloing a dolmen, and got through the last wave only to have another player run up and tap the pinions, the player seemed to appear out of nowhere and was already in the process of tapping the pinions before I even noticed them. It didn't bother me, because I wasn't aware of any achievement related to it-- and now that I do know, I still don't care very much about that achievement, or any other achievement, so I still won't be letting it bother me.

But when have you ever had another player casually and slowly saunter up to a dolmen that was in progress and give you time to break away from what you were doing and type "please let me tap the pinions myself"? For that matter, would the other player even stop to see your message, read your message, and comprehend that your message was directed at them? And if they did, would they be courteous enough to oblige, or would they just go and tap the pinions anyway, then get toxic with you about how they have just as much right to be there as you do, go play Skyrim if you don't want to play with other people, I'm going to report you to ZOS for committing a TOS violation, etc.?

That last bit might sound pretty far-fetched, but unfortunately it isn't. Sometimes it seems like the safest way to interact with certain players is to actively avoid interacting with them at all.

And because all of that the only thing you could do is to try to communicate, you not losing anything and it's the maximum you personally can do about it. Throughout the years I saw such requests not once and quite frankly I've never seen anyone ignoring such messaging. Other player can do whatever they want obviously as it is a public event still, but if the other side is keeping silent chances high your goals are staying unknown so it's hard to blame anyone for "ruining" anything.

I get you, and I'm not saying that your comment was a bad idea-- in general. I'm just saying that in the case of dolmens-- or a WB, for that matter-- it isn't always possible to stop what you're doing and type a message in chat. The part about whether or not the other person will notice your message and comply is a separate matter, although both matters come into play here.

And like I said, it doesn't bother me if someone else comes up and starts attacking a boss, or tapping pinions on a dolmen, or whatever, while I'm soloing some content. I play solo because I like to do whatever content I want, when I want, not because I'm loathe to play alongside other people, or am chasing some achievement that requires doing something myself.

But I can also understand the players who might be irked by those kinds of behavior. I once had someone in IC tell me not to "leach" when I ran up to help them and their buddy kill a patrolling boss, which kind of floored me at the time because I didn't know that the TV stones and XP would be split between the number of players involved-- but even though I felt offended by his whisper, I just broke off and resumed farming TV from everything else in the district, as I'd been doing for 2 hours before the other two players showed up to kill the patrolling boss. I'd even helped other players kill the boss during the prior hours, but each time it was killed it never seemed to spawn again while I kept farming TV in that district until some new player came along. Anyway, I respected their request, even though I felt offended by it at the time-- but now that I know better, I no longer feel offended by requests like that.

What I do get irritated by is when someone comments about what they consider to be rude behavior by other players, and they start getting replies like "Gee, maybe an MMO isn't for you," or "Go play Skyrim." I think that's akin to listening to someone gripe about being cut off in traffic by a dangerous scofflaw driver and then having others reply "Gee, maybe you shouldn't be on the road if other drivers annoy you," or griping about standing in line and having someone show up and push their way past everyone so they can be first in line, then be told "Gee, maybe you shouldn't be out in public" because you found the other person's behavior to be annoying.

corrosivechains

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

egood1225 wrote: »

This is no longer an Elder Scrolls game, but instead a waste of my time. ... The interference and behavior of other players has made this game unplayable.

Unfortunately, the whole "racing around, killing stuff as fast as possible" is pretty standard MMO behavior. And since this is an Elder Scrolls MMO...

(and yeah - other people "interfering" with what you're trying to do is also par for the course in most open-world multiplayer games.)


While it has lots of solo-able content, this is not a single-player game. You can't expect the same things you would of an SP game. That's just the way it is.

REALLY REALLY wish something to this effect was required reading for anyone who purchases an online game. Also really wish that Online Game Developers would quit trying to tell single-player gamers that they can "play solo just fine". Let online multiplayer games be online multiplayer games, since over 90% of all videogames made are already single player.

starkerealm

MagmaFerret wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

MagmaFerret wrote: »

While I understand your frustrations, and I know this isn't a full fix, but perhaps putting a shout in Zone chat like "Trying to solo [blank] dolmen, please don't join" could help? It doesn't stop people from joining, but it might reduce the instances of people "stealing" pinions?

Or, just focus on a less popular zone for Dolmen farming, and get your Chainbreaker achievement there. Greenshade comes to mind.

This might be wandering into off-topic territory, but does the Chainbreaker achievement even require you to solo the dolmens, or is it just 100 cumulative pinions? Because if it's just cumulative, then the whole dolmen side of this thread's conversation is pretty much null. Most dolmens I've joined in on, people are too busy focusing on the enemies and ignoring the pinions.

It's cumulative. There is no mechanical incentive for soloing any Incursion (including Dolmens) or World Boss. People solo that content because they don't want to wait for other players to show up. (Same for Public Dungeon Group events.)

In fact, AFIAK, the only content in the game that directly incentivizes solo play are the Maelstrom and Vatashran Arenas... and that's only because you can't bring other players in with you.

starkerealm

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Do the dolmens in Cyrodiil count for that achievement? I've almost never had anyone else run up and join in when I was doing a dolmen in Cyrodiil.

Cyrodiil does count for Chainbreaker. But, there's another achievement with an associated title... I think it's "Savior of Nirn," which requires completing each Dolmen at least once, and that does include the ten Cyrodiil dolmens.

nightstrike

starkerealm wrote: »

People solo that content because they don't want to wait for other players to show up. (Same for Public Dungeon Group events.)

I solo content because it gives me a stronger sense of accomplishment than just standing somewhere while everything instantly dies.

I wouldn't solo things if there wasn't such a wide power gap at play. It's not fun to play basketball with Michael Jordan.

starkerealm

nightstrike wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

People solo that content because they don't want to wait for other players to show up. (Same for Public Dungeon Group events.)

I solo content because it gives me a stronger sense of accomplishment than just standing somewhere while everything instantly dies.

I wouldn't solo things if there wasn't such a wide power gap at play. It's not fun to play basketball with Michael Jordan.

I, legitimately, almost wrote, "they solo that content because they want to flex or don't want to wait..." but, took it out because it felt a bit mean spirited. Though, in fairness, soloing incursions and world bosses does fit into a difficulty continuity between normal and vet content.

ADarklore

DP99 wrote: »

I personally think it’s great when people kill enemies for me in delves and dungeons! Less work for me.

True... but what I learned on my Stamblade... is that while I can avoid fighting... in doing so, I'm also losing XP from kills which in turn impacts my CP gain. So avoiding tedious combat sounds like a good idea, if you care about CP, then it really isn't. If a person uses XP scrolls and then avoids combat, that is also a lose/lose situation.

I stopped playing my Stamblade because it was all too easy to avoid combat and rush through everything... having the ability to cloak was far too tempting to avoid... especially since it was the sole reason I went with a Stamblade in the first place. I thought it sounded like a great idea on paper, I can get through things faster to finish quests... but then realized how much XP I was losing by doing so. I then opted to create a Magden and have been enjoying that so far.

Kiralyn2000

corrosivechains wrote: »

Also really wish that Online Game Developers would quit trying to tell single-player gamers that they can "play solo just fine".

But you can. As long, of course, as you understand there will be other people running around doing things as well.

(plus, well, the publishers would like to sell as many copies as possible. And dedicated We Want To MP All The Time MMO players aren't enough to play all the MMOs out there)

Let online multiplayer games be online multiplayer games, since over 90% of all videogames made are already single player.

Eh, there's been a bit of a resurgence of SP games with the rise of indie games, and the CRPG renaissance, but MP has been a huge thing for quite awhile now. Ever since devs & publishers realized that "other players are 'content' we don't have to provide" (plus you can sell more DLC/microtransactions). Heck, EA had their "every game must have MP" period.

There were years that I felt like SP games were few & far between.

SeaGtGruff

I think the multiplayer environment in ESO is great-- most of the time.

Even if I do choose to play the content by myself most of the time, there are invariably times when I need to cooperate with other players to achieve a common goal-- such as killing dragons.

Note that "cooperate" doesn't necessarily mean the same thing as "coordinate." Cooperation can occur between many players playing solo together, whereas coordination would seem to imply the formation of a group where each player has an assigned role within the team and (hopefully) works with the other members of the team in an organized fashion.

There are also times when the multiplayer environment seems to be more of a detriment, which I think was the OP's reason for starting this thread. For example, this morning I was doing part of the zone questline in Deshaan and another player killed the quest boss in the Mournhold sewers before I could participate. I got credit for the kill due to my proximity to the fight, and the only way I would have been able to "fix" the situation would have been to abandon that particular quest and start over. And there was at least one other player who was in the same boat that I was.

Ken_Koerperich

As other stated, it's NOT that I'm anti social, or a DB.

It's the fact that "I" had killed all the waves, and was 'attempting/currently' working on that achievement, and some waffle runs in and starts snapping all the pinions at warp speed, and had done LITERALLY ZERO damage, then proceeds to ONE SHOT the boss and leave....

I'm on console btw, and attempting to "type" into zone chat, since it's "click" scroll down, click, left pad choose /zone, then type in, click, click to shout out.....a big f'n hassle....

I just don't get it, let alone, as "ALOT" of you are saying, go where it's quiet. I did, how do you think I killed all but the boss SOLO??? I want them pinions that go w/ that, not some speed freak running in taking them because he/she/it moves faster than I can.

Just saying...

Oh, and while on the subject of crap behaviors....why oh why do people pop open crates/boxes/rune holders/plants and leave one freaking POS in them???

[snip]

[Edited for Discussion of Moderation Actions]

whitecrow

Does the achievement count count individual pinions, or just the dolmen? (Edit: I see that it is the pinions.)Either way, if you're going to play for any length of time -- complete each dolmen in each zone, complete FG dailies - you're going to get it.

16BitForestCat

whitecrow wrote: »

I have heard that leaving the pinions active till the waves are done increases the chances of a named boss (which also contributes to an achievement) but I don't know if that is really true.

It's not! ZOS employees actually addressed it in a previous episode of ESO Live. That was due to this rumor causing too many problems with players harassing one another at dolmens, thinking that they were being deprived of named bosses by early pinion release. Gina (or Jessica? I forget who now) outright stated that it was just a player rumor, and your chances of getting a named boss have nothing to do with the pinions.

UESP updated their Chainbreaker page with that information as well:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Chainbreaker

Contrary to popular belief, activating the pinions during or after the main battle has no effect on whether or not the Dolmen spawns a General for the General Executioner achievement. However, since each of them can only be activated by one player, it's a matter of courtesy if you arrive late in the battle to defer to those who were there before you (unless you're really in trouble), especially if you have already completed this achievement, as there is no additional benefit to activating more than 100 pinions.

I still don't release any pinions until everything is dead, but that's so everyone can get as much XP as possible, and so anyone who actually still needs the Chainbreaker achievement can step in and grab them first.

SickleCider

SilverBride wrote: »

This reminds me of something that happened a couple of days ago in Elsweyr. A player actually asked in zone if we would all wait for him to arrive before we attack the dragon. I replied no we can't do that and was called selfish and many other names I can't put here by another player. But it is not reasonable to expect a large group of players, many of whom may not even see the request, in the middle of an event, to wait on one player.

A similar thing happened last night on PS NA. Southern Elsweyr, two hours to go to complete the endeavor, there was a particular individual that was yelling at people zone. They were calling everyone "extras," saying they wish they could boot everyone, told everyone they were stuck up for not waiting for them, kept saying they were going to get their guild to come and. . . idk do something. They STARTED aggressive. It was uh, interesting. I generally have sympathy for people that are struggling, but sometimes they don't realize that their attitude doesn't inspire anyone to give them considerations.

To the OP: I tend to yeet things from orbit, so if I'm in a delve, public dungeon or quest area, I compulsively take a look around before I engage the boss. Some of us are mindful. But, it is an MMO, and an MMO gonna MMO.

whitecrow

16BitForestCat wrote: »

whitecrow wrote: »

I have heard that leaving the pinions active till the waves are done increases the chances of a named boss (which also contributes to an achievement) but I don't know if that is really true.

It's not! ZOS employees actually addressed it in a previous episode of ESO Live. That was due to this rumor causing too many problems with players harassing one another at dolmens, thinking that they were being deprived of named bosses by early pinion release. Gina (or Jessica? I forget who now) outright stated that it was just a player rumor, and your chances of getting a named boss have nothing to do with the pinions.

UESP updated their Chainbreaker page with that information as well:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Chainbreaker

Contrary to popular belief, activating the pinions during or after the main battle has no effect on whether or not the Dolmen spawns a General for the General Executioner achievement. However, since each of them can only be activated by one player, it's a matter of courtesy if you arrive late in the battle to defer to those who were there before you (unless you're really in trouble), especially if you have already completed this achievement, as there is no additional benefit to activating more than 100 pinions.

I still don't release any pinions until everything is dead, but that's so everyone can get as much XP as possible, and so anyone who actually still needs the Chainbreaker achievement can step in and grab them first.

Ah, good to know and thanks for the confirmation! I'll usually save the pinions unless I need a quick resource replenishment.

DP99

ADarklore wrote: »

DP99 wrote: »

I personally think it’s great when people kill enemies for me in delves and dungeons! Less work for me.

True... but what I learned on my Stamblade... is that while I can avoid fighting... in doing so, I'm also losing XP from kills which in turn impacts my CP gain. So avoiding tedious combat sounds like a good idea, if you care about CP, then it really isn't. If a person uses XP scrolls and then avoids combat, that is also a lose/lose situation.

I stopped playing my Stamblade because it was all too easy to avoid combat and rush through everything... having the ability to cloak was far too tempting to avoid... especially since it was the sole reason I went with a Stamblade in the first place. I thought it sounded like a great idea on paper, I can get through things faster to finish quests... but then realized how much XP I was losing by doing so. I then opted to create a Magden and have been enjoying that so far.

ADarklore wrote: »

DP99 wrote: »

I personally think it’s great when people kill enemies for me in delves and dungeons! Less work for me.

True... but what I learned on my Stamblade... is that while I can avoid fighting... in doing so, I'm also losing XP from kills which in turn impacts my CP gain. So avoiding tedious combat sounds like a good idea, if you care about CP, then it really isn't. If a person uses XP scrolls and then avoids combat, that is also a lose/lose situation.

I stopped playing my Stamblade because it was all too easy to avoid combat and rush through everything... having the ability to cloak was far too tempting to avoid... especially since it was the sole reason I went with a Stamblade in the first place. I thought it sounded like a great idea on paper, I can get through things faster to finish quests... but then realized how much XP I was losing by doing so. I then opted to create a Magden and have been enjoying that so far.

Yes, no kills mean no XP. My character is a Stamblade, and I don’t even use shadow cloak, though, I just sneak when I can, the best that I can and if I have to fight I will.