Zenimax please Buff/Rework Redguard

Pevey

I’m all for make red guard one of the top tier stam races again. They absolutely should be.

Faulgor

The suggestion for +50% weapon trait bonus is the best one imo. It fits thematically for the weapon masters of Tamriel, is very versatile, unique, and half a 5pc set bonus has precedent for other racial bonuses (e.g. Nord vs Werewolf Hide).

Alucardo

Faulgor wrote: »

The suggestion for +50% weapon trait bonus is the best one imo. It fits thematically for the weapon masters of Tamriel, is very versatile, unique, and half a 5pc set bonus has precedent for other racial bonuses (e.g. Nord vs Werewolf Hide).

it is a nice suggestion, and definitely makes sense for Redguard, but it does sound a bit strong? 150% with Heartland Conqueror is huge.

Jackey

I also think Redguards should receive something extra.
Either defensively or offensively.
There's just something that's missing when I play my Redguard DK, which is a shame because I think he looks super cool.

The martial training passive is pretty bad. That's the one that needs some adjustment.

YandereGirlfriend

Alucardo wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

The suggestion for +50% weapon trait bonus is the best one imo. It fits thematically for the weapon masters of Tamriel, is very versatile, unique, and half a 5pc set bonus has precedent for other racial bonuses (e.g. Nord vs Werewolf Hide).

it is a nice suggestion, and definitely makes sense for Redguard, but it does sound a bit strong? 150% with Heartland Conqueror is huge.

It's completely fine.

Rukia541

francesinhalover wrote: »

Rukia541 wrote: »

So what is the best Stam race now? I have been redguard since day one because they look the best imo. I don't think my dps suffers from being one but I'm sure it could be better with more wep dmg. I was thinking possibly orc. I still have those 3 free race changes zos gave out a while back.

ofcourse it suffers , it's 250 dmg you are missing, that's like 6-8% extra dmg your rotations will do.

What content demands I do 6% extra dmg though I think dps is insanely high as it is. I'm not saying redgard passives don't suck but I really don't feel gimped.

I say give em the wep dmg and call it a day

Alucardo

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

The suggestion for +50% weapon trait bonus is the best one imo. It fits thematically for the weapon masters of Tamriel, is very versatile, unique, and half a 5pc set bonus has precedent for other racial bonuses (e.g. Nord vs Werewolf Hide).

it is a nice suggestion, and definitely makes sense for Redguard, but it does sound a bit strong? 150% with Heartland Conqueror is huge.

It's completely fine.

Wouldn't that make the sharpened trait value 9828?

M4RSHM4LL0W_CL0UD

Alucardo wrote: »

Wouldn't that make the sharpened trait value 9828?

It would depend on how the bonuses would be calculated. If they were added so that Heartland+theoretical RG bonus=150% trait potency, Shapened would give 8190 penetration, because 3276×2.5=8190. Heartland by itself provides 6552, so in this scenario the Redguard bonus would be providing 1638, which doesn't seem overtuned.

However, if it were calculated so that one bonus were calculated on top of another, then things would get dicey. So if 3276 from sharpened were increased by 50% to provide 4914 penetration, and THEN Heartland doubled that to 9828, that would be too much.

It would all depend on how the bonuses are coded to be calculated.

StarOfElyon

francesinhalover wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Freeflyer212 wrote: »

So Dark Elf huh? welp that sucks

Yeah, Dark Elf has 1910 stam + 258 weapon damage, whereas Orc has 1000 stam + 258 weapon damage. So technically you'd get more DPS (though minimal) from Dunmer. The difference is VERY insignificant.

It's funny i have been thinking about it ,you very probably do MORE dmg with stam high elf than redguard at this point. Even if high elfs recovery isn't has good.

I love her. 😍 Hybrid queen!!!

Freeflyer212

Rukia541 wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Rukia541 wrote: »

So what is the best Stam race now? I have been redguard since day one because they look the best imo. I don't think my dps suffers from being one but I'm sure it could be better with more wep dmg. I was thinking possibly orc. I still have those 3 free race changes zos gave out a while back.

ofcourse it suffers , it's 250 dmg you are missing, that's like 6-8% extra dmg your rotations will do.

What content demands I do 6% extra dmg though I think dps is insanely high as it is. I'm not saying redgard passives don't suck but I really don't feel gimped.

I say give em the wep dmg and call it a day

The content be elitist players who kick out people because they don't squeeze out that tiny bit of extra dmg due to be a certain race.

francesinhalover

Freeflyer212 wrote: »

Rukia541 wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Rukia541 wrote: »

So what is the best Stam race now? I have been redguard since day one because they look the best imo. I don't think my dps suffers from being one but I'm sure it could be better with more wep dmg. I was thinking possibly orc. I still have those 3 free race changes zos gave out a while back.

ofcourse it suffers , it's 250 dmg you are missing, that's like 6-8% extra dmg your rotations will do.

What content demands I do 6% extra dmg though I think dps is insanely high as it is. I'm not saying redgard passives don't suck but I really don't feel gimped.

I say give em the wep dmg and call it a day

The content be elitist players who kick out people because they don't squeeze out that tiny bit of extra dmg due to be a certain race.

I mostly play solo, those 6-8% extra damage would be heaven. I can easily remember so many times the extra dmg would had helped even on vet dlc dungs

Freeflyer212

francesinhalover wrote: »

Freeflyer212 wrote: »

Rukia541 wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Rukia541 wrote: »

So what is the best Stam race now? I have been redguard since day one because they look the best imo. I don't think my dps suffers from being one but I'm sure it could be better with more wep dmg. I was thinking possibly orc. I still have those 3 free race changes zos gave out a while back.

ofcourse it suffers , it's 250 dmg you are missing, that's like 6-8% extra dmg your rotations will do.

What content demands I do 6% extra dmg though I think dps is insanely high as it is. I'm not saying redgard passives don't suck but I really don't feel gimped.

I say give em the wep dmg and call it a day

The content be elitist players who kick out people because they don't squeeze out that tiny bit of extra dmg due to be a certain race.

I mostly play solo, those 6-8% extra damage would be heaven.

If you play solo then it shouldn't really matter? The game is too easy. It's like ESO is set on the lowest difficulty setting. You can pretty much breeze through all the solo content. Im a Redguard and im actually bored how easy solo content is.

StarOfElyon

Freeflyer212 wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Freeflyer212 wrote: »

Rukia541 wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Rukia541 wrote: »

So what is the best Stam race now? I have been redguard since day one because they look the best imo. I don't think my dps suffers from being one but I'm sure it could be better with more wep dmg. I was thinking possibly orc. I still have those 3 free race changes zos gave out a while back.

ofcourse it suffers , it's 250 dmg you are missing, that's like 6-8% extra dmg your rotations will do.

What content demands I do 6% extra dmg though I think dps is insanely high as it is. I'm not saying redgard passives don't suck but I really don't feel gimped.

I say give em the wep dmg and call it a day

The content be elitist players who kick out people because they don't squeeze out that tiny bit of extra dmg due to be a certain race.

I mostly play solo, those 6-8% extra damage would be heaven.

If you play solo then it shouldn't really matter? The game is too easy. It's like ESO is set on the lowest difficulty setting. You can pretty much breeze through all the solo content. Im a Redguard and im actually bored how easy solo content is.

I go into trials on my Redgaurd mag/stam hybrid. As long as people aren't being dilznicks it's all good.

starkerealm

M4RSHM4LL0W_CL0UD wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Wouldn't that make the sharpened trait value 9828?

It would depend on how the bonuses would be calculated. If they were added so that Heartland+theoretical RG bonus=150% trait potency, Shapened would give 8190 penetration, because 3276×2.5=8190. Heartland by itself provides 6552, so in this scenario the Redguard bonus would be providing 1638, which doesn't seem overtuned.

However, if it were calculated so that one bonus were calculated on top of another, then things would get dicey. So if 3276 from sharpened were increased by 50% to provide 4914 penetration, and THEN Heartland doubled that to 9828, that would be too much.

It would all depend on how the bonuses are coded to be calculated.

If they were added multiplicatively, it would also make Heartland the set to run with a Redguard. Though, if it can add the % first, then multiply, could work.

Rukia541

Freeflyer212 wrote: »

Rukia541 wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Rukia541 wrote: »

So what is the best Stam race now? I have been redguard since day one because they look the best imo. I don't think my dps suffers from being one but I'm sure it could be better with more wep dmg. I was thinking possibly orc. I still have those 3 free race changes zos gave out a while back.

ofcourse it suffers , it's 250 dmg you are missing, that's like 6-8% extra dmg your rotations will do.

What content demands I do 6% extra dmg though I think dps is insanely high as it is. I'm not saying redgard passives don't suck but I really don't feel gimped.

I say give em the wep dmg and call it a day

The content be elitist players who kick out people because they don't squeeze out that tiny bit of extra dmg due to be a certain race.

Real elite players don't pug usually so its a non issue just find a group that doesn't have wannabes in it, most pugs are not a toxic elitist hellscape some imagine it to be. The extra dmg is completely unnecessary according to what the content actually demands we are far above the bar in dps.

Most people who ride the meta train aren't good and never will be they just like to chase the tail of the real chads that perform at the top. Farming new gear or changing race constantly every "meta" swap like really , what for? I've used the same sets and builds for years

Parsing on a stationary target dummy doesn't mean anything yet thats all I see when people on forums are talking about dps instead of showing an actual fight during mechanics.. I don't lack in any area with dmg pve or pvp. Now if I reach a point where I actually can't do content cuz my dps is awful then okay there's a problem.

If someones parsing a little higher than me because of a racial then I'll just have to somehow find a way to live with it ;(

starkerealm

Rukia541 wrote: »

Real elite players don't pug usually so its a non issue just find a group that doesn't have wannabes in it, most pugs are not a toxic elitist hellscape some imagine it to be.

This is mostly true. I know a few that will just, straight up, PUG in. But, man, when the PUGs hit the fan, the runs degenerate into pure memes.

Castagere

My issue is the passives should make sense for the race and its lore. Redguards were never tanks. Yet they have this sword and board buff that belongs to Orcs. Orcs have been the tank race in every Tes game. Redguards were the Jedi/Samurai race of Tamriel. In other words damage dealers, not tanks. Look up sword singers in the lore. And what makes me more upset is the sword singer gear set in the game. A buff to two-hand abilities when it should have been a buff to bladed weapons It's like a slap in the face.

axi

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

They are currently one of the strongest Tank races.

The cheaper taunt/Wall of elements, the passive stamina gain for dropping WoE..

Please dont touch that.
Love my redguard Tank.

If anyone needs a proper buff it is Nords and Argonians who never really recovered from their nerfs.
Those are a bucket of “meh”

That is a very small sustain buff you're talking about, WoE is cast every 14s and S&B weapon skills are cast every 12s.
You save 8% of 3780 magicka which comes down to 302 over 14s so the equivalent of 43 mag regen.
For stam its 8% 4230 stam which comes down to 346 over 12s so the equivalent of 58 stam regen.
This is calculated without passives that reduce ability costs so in reality the values are even lower.

Breton is far better at sustain (and spell resistance) because it reduces the cost of all magicka based skills and you get mag regen on top of that.

Im not saying that the weapon ability cost should be removed but its just a low value compared to the Breton or Imperial passives.

For me its still a mystery why Redguard, the weapon master race, is the worst race for weapon damage.
They should at least some weapon damage or critical chance to the racial passives.

I cannot agree with this, Tanks in hard content live and did by their Stam.

When you Block your stam sustain becomes 0 which is why Tank spec into Mag sustain.

Redguard racial passives effectively give you 1000+ stam WHILE blocking every 5 seconds which is huuuge.
It literally let you convert Magicka (WoE) into stam while Blocking!! The only other skill that allows this is dragonknights igneus shield with the Helping hand passive!

You no longer have to be a DK to convert your mag into stam while blocking if you are a redguard, I can not tell you how huge that is, and 1000+ stam every 5 seconds is darn near perma Block with 7 sturdy. Not trivial at all.

On top of that your main taunt ans WoE is Also cheaper. Redguard are so good Tanks its disgusting.

Not every race needs to be “DPS” race I love my monster of a Redguard tank.

Or You can just become Imperial and have 6% cheaper everything including blocking.

Freeflyer212

Rukia541 wrote: »

Freeflyer212 wrote: »

Rukia541 wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Rukia541 wrote: »

So what is the best Stam race now? I have been redguard since day one because they look the best imo. I don't think my dps suffers from being one but I'm sure it could be better with more wep dmg. I was thinking possibly orc. I still have those 3 free race changes zos gave out a while back.

ofcourse it suffers , it's 250 dmg you are missing, that's like 6-8% extra dmg your rotations will do.

What content demands I do 6% extra dmg though I think dps is insanely high as it is. I'm not saying redgard passives don't suck but I really don't feel gimped.

I say give em the wep dmg and call it a day

The content be elitist players who kick out people because they don't squeeze out that tiny bit of extra dmg due to be a certain race.

Real elite players don't pug usually so its a non issue just find a group that doesn't have wannabes in it, most pugs are not a toxic elitist hellscape some imagine it to be. The extra dmg is completely unnecessary according to what the content actually demands we are far above the bar in dps.

Most people who ride the meta train aren't good and never will be they just like to chase the tail of the real chads that perform at the top. Farming new gear or changing race constantly every "meta" swap like really , what for? I've used the same sets and builds for years

Parsing on a stationary target dummy doesn't mean anything yet thats all I see when people on forums are talking about dps instead of showing an actual fight during mechanics.. I don't lack in any area with dmg pve or pvp. Now if I reach a point where I actually can't do content cuz my dps is awful then okay there's a problem.

If someones parsing a little higher than me because of a racial then I'll just have to somehow find a way to live with it ;(

Good advice but I don't do vet trials simply because some people take the fun out of it. One of the worst ones I was in devolved into listening to two people arguing with each other over discord. Talk about uncomfortable...

Now that's not to say you won't be lucky and not have a guild or pug group who don't take vet trials seriously. But sometimes you always run into those few who feel like they should spending their time doing something calming rather than playing a game that stresses them out.

All in all normal trials have some of the most chillest people.

Faulgor

M4RSHM4LL0W_CL0UD wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Wouldn't that make the sharpened trait value 9828?

It would depend on how the bonuses would be calculated. If they were added so that Heartland+theoretical RG bonus=150% trait potency, Shapened would give 8190 penetration, because 3276×2.5=8190. Heartland by itself provides 6552, so in this scenario the Redguard bonus would be providing 1638, which doesn't seem overtuned.

However, if it were calculated so that one bonus were calculated on top of another, then things would get dicey. So if 3276 from sharpened were increased by 50% to provide 4914 penetration, and THEN Heartland doubled that to 9828, that would be too much.

It would all depend on how the bonuses are coded to be calculated.

I think the bonus of heartland and torug's pact are additive, so I don't see why sharpened wouldn't be.

In any case, 50% is less for Nirnhoned than the damage races get for weapon/spell damage, less for Powered than Argonians get for healing done, and less for Defending than Nords get in armor. It only exceeds Bosmer's penetration bonus when using Sharpened.

StarOfElyon

Faulgor wrote: »

M4RSHM4LL0W_CL0UD wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Wouldn't that make the sharpened trait value 9828?

It would depend on how the bonuses would be calculated. If they were added so that Heartland+theoretical RG bonus=150% trait potency, Shapened would give 8190 penetration, because 3276×2.5=8190. Heartland by itself provides 6552, so in this scenario the Redguard bonus would be providing 1638, which doesn't seem overtuned.

However, if it were calculated so that one bonus were calculated on top of another, then things would get dicey. So if 3276 from sharpened were increased by 50% to provide 4914 penetration, and THEN Heartland doubled that to 9828, that would be too much.

It would all depend on how the bonuses are coded to be calculated.

I think the bonus of heartland and torug's pact are additive, so I don't see why sharpened wouldn't be.

In any case, 50% is less for Nirnhoned than the damage races get for weapon/spell damage, less for Powered than Argonians get for healing done, and less for Defending than Nords get in armor. It only exceeds Bosmer's penetration bonus when using Sharpened.

If we wanted to give Redguards a full bonus we would go with 90 to 91% increase on effectiveness of traits. That would add around 2,974 pen on top of the pen you get from sharpened. But Redguards shouldn't get that much of a damage bonus AND still get sustain bonuses. A 45% increase to weapon traits for Redguards is probably more balanced.

agegarton

It has to be said, in an effort to balance everything to within an inch of its life, ZoS has created a great deal of imbalance.

It’s a shame that racial passives / skills are not more attuned to racial lore (as they used to be). Redguards should be melee weapon masters, certainly up there with Nord and Orc if not better.

Brenticus12

Jolsyf wrote: »

*cries in imperial*

Imperials are so good rn for both PVP and PVE lol, they're the last race that needs a buff especially since they're behind a pay wall.

StarOfElyon

agegarton wrote: »

It has to be said, in an effort to balance everything to within an inch of its life, ZoS has created a great deal of imbalance.

It’s a shame that racial passives / skills are not more attuned to racial lore (as they used to be). Redguards should be melee weapon masters, certainly up there with Nord and Orc if not better.

Nord don't get damage bonuses at all. Don't get tunnel vision around weapon damage. I'd be happy with Redguard getting better sustain passives.

francesinhalover

Freeflyer212 wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Freeflyer212 wrote: »

Rukia541 wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Rukia541 wrote: »

So what is the best Stam race now? I have been redguard since day one because they look the best imo. I don't think my dps suffers from being one but I'm sure it could be better with more wep dmg. I was thinking possibly orc. I still have those 3 free race changes zos gave out a while back.

ofcourse it suffers , it's 250 dmg you are missing, that's like 6-8% extra dmg your rotations will do.

What content demands I do 6% extra dmg though I think dps is insanely high as it is. I'm not saying redgard passives don't suck but I really don't feel gimped.

I say give em the wep dmg and call it a day

The content be elitist players who kick out people because they don't squeeze out that tiny bit of extra dmg due to be a certain race.

I mostly play solo, those 6-8% extra damage would be heaven.

If you play solo then it shouldn't really matter? The game is too easy. It's like ESO is set on the lowest difficulty setting. You can pretty much breeze through all the solo content. Im a Redguard and im actually bored how easy solo content is.

Yeah i disagree with that. but i doubt we can agree on something , so let's agree to disagree and move on.

francesinhalover

Freeflyer212 wrote: »

Rukia541 wrote: »

Freeflyer212 wrote: »

Rukia541 wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Rukia541 wrote: »

So what is the best Stam race now? I have been redguard since day one because they look the best imo. I don't think my dps suffers from being one but I'm sure it could be better with more wep dmg. I was thinking possibly orc. I still have those 3 free race changes zos gave out a while back.

ofcourse it suffers , it's 250 dmg you are missing, that's like 6-8% extra dmg your rotations will do.

What content demands I do 6% extra dmg though I think dps is insanely high as it is. I'm not saying redgard passives don't suck but I really don't feel gimped.

I say give em the wep dmg and call it a day

The content be elitist players who kick out people because they don't squeeze out that tiny bit of extra dmg due to be a certain race.

Real elite players don't pug usually so its a non issue just find a group that doesn't have wannabes in it, most pugs are not a toxic elitist hellscape some imagine it to be. The extra dmg is completely unnecessary according to what the content actually demands we are far above the bar in dps.

Most people who ride the meta train aren't good and never will be they just like to chase the tail of the real chads that perform at the top. Farming new gear or changing race constantly every "meta" swap like really , what for? I've used the same sets and builds for years

Parsing on a stationary target dummy doesn't mean anything yet thats all I see when people on forums are talking about dps instead of showing an actual fight during mechanics.. I don't lack in any area with dmg pve or pvp. Now if I reach a point where I actually can't do content cuz my dps is awful then okay there's a problem.

If someones parsing a little higher than me because of a racial then I'll just have to somehow find a way to live with it ;(

Good advice but I don't do vet trials simply because some people take the fun out of it. One of the worst ones I was in devolved into listening to two people arguing with each other over discord. Talk about uncomfortable...

Now that's not to say you won't be lucky and not have a guild or pug group who don't take vet trials seriously. But sometimes you always run into those few who feel like they should spending their time doing something calming rather than playing a game that stresses them out.

All in all normal trials have some of the most chillest people.

same man, i want to play the game not hear people talk over mic... ugh.
That's why i preffer normal diff content, but those collectibles bruh and nice sets..

francesinhalover

StarOfElyon wrote: »

agegarton wrote: »

It has to be said, in an effort to balance everything to within an inch of its life, ZoS has created a great deal of imbalance.

It’s a shame that racial passives / skills are not more attuned to racial lore (as they used to be). Redguards should be melee weapon masters, certainly up there with Nord and Orc if not better.

Nord don't get damage bonuses at all. Don't get tunnel vision around weapon damage. I'd be happy with Redguard getting better sustain passives.

Because nords, imperials and orcs are usualy the elder scrolls tanks.

But ya know orc dps we go

francesinhalover

Castagere wrote: »

martial training is about weapons or hand to hand. Zos needs to look up what it means because nowhere does it mention snares.

Redguards don't skip leg day so they have snare resistance