I never realized how many fake damage dealers there was until I started playing Tank/Healer

spartaxoxo

Vigarr wrote: »

Weak dps doesn't mean fake like the fake tanks who don't taunt...I can pick up the slack for weak players in my party but I refuse to pick up the aggro for a fake

They are still fake dps if you'd need to do their job to get the dungeon done because they can't meet the bare minimum requirements of dps'ing.

Kusto

Vigarr wrote: »

Weak dps doesn't mean fake like the fake tanks who don't taunt...I can pick up the slack for weak players in my party but I refuse to pick up the aggro for a fake

This here is why real tanks avoid pugs. This attitude that I as a dps can be bad or fake but support roles must be real and serve me no matter what.

In my experience with pugs, 9 out of 10 failed vet runs are because of bad dps and not because of fake or bad tanks/healers.

Iccotak

RedFireDisco wrote: »

There need to be hints on loading screens before dungeons and checklists when selecting a role

DPS's should run ground AOE's, dots, and really all damage needs to be area of effect, save for boss only skills.

The amount of times I've seen some scrub firing single target damage at mobs, or wearing S&B for DPS roles is easily as often as I see a "slap on a resto to heal" type or no-taunt tanks.

Or - hear me out - general combat in ESO should actually on some level prepare players for that content so then it isn’t such a 180 when they get into group content.

waterfairy

Kusto wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

Weak dps doesn't mean fake like the fake tanks who don't taunt...I can pick up the slack for weak players in my party but I refuse to pick up the aggro for a fake

This here is why real tanks avoid pugs. This attitude that I as a dps can be bad or fake but support roles must be real and serve me no matter what.

In my experience with pugs, 9 out of 10 failed vet runs are because of bad dps and not because of fake or bad tanks/healers.

I agree low dps have no business in vet dungeons and therefore should be kicked as well if too much of a strain on the other dps but there's a huge difference between being bad at your role then being the wrong role just to cheat the que. Fake tanks not only make boss fights more annoying/difficult, they're also a middle finger to the 2 real dps who waited out the long que

spartaxoxo

Vigarr wrote: »

Kusto wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

Weak dps doesn't mean fake like the fake tanks who don't taunt...I can pick up the slack for weak players in my party but I refuse to pick up the aggro for a fake

This here is why real tanks avoid pugs. This attitude that I as a dps can be bad or fake but support roles must be real and serve me no matter what.

In my experience with pugs, 9 out of 10 failed vet runs are because of bad dps and not because of fake or bad tanks/healers.

I agree low dps have no business in vet dungeons and therefore should be kicked as well if too much of a strain on the other dps but there's a huge difference between being bad at your role then being the wrong role just to cheat the que. Fake tanks not only make boss fights more annoying/difficult, they're also a middle finger to the 2 real dps who waited out the long que

Fake dps are also a middle finger to the tank and other dps who they expect to carry them so they can play however they want. A lot of them are not new players, they are entitled players who think that shouldn't have to care about their groupmates when signing up for group activities because they can do whatever they want. That's the vast majority of them.

waterfairy

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

Kusto wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

Weak dps doesn't mean fake like the fake tanks who don't taunt...I can pick up the slack for weak players in my party but I refuse to pick up the aggro for a fake

This here is why real tanks avoid pugs. This attitude that I as a dps can be bad or fake but support roles must be real and serve me no matter what.

In my experience with pugs, 9 out of 10 failed vet runs are because of bad dps and not because of fake or bad tanks/healers.

I agree low dps have no business in vet dungeons and therefore should be kicked as well if too much of a strain on the other dps but there's a huge difference between being bad at your role then being the wrong role just to cheat the que. Fake tanks not only make boss fights more annoying/difficult, they're also a middle finger to the 2 real dps who waited out the long que

Fake dps are also a middle finger to the tank and other dps who they expect to carry them so they can play however they want. A lot of them are not new players, they are entitled players who think that shouldn't have to care about their groupmates when signing up for group activities because they can do whatever they want. That's the vast majority of them.

I don't see that often in vet pugs but obviously they should be kicked too...especially if they're not trying

Wuuffyy

redlink1979 wrote: »

This is why you might don't want to pug vet content...
Again, there aren't fake dds: they're not really faking their role, they're just players with bad parses or no parses at all.

There is fake dps, healers, and tanks, lol.

If you don’t even lay down damage and spam on ST move. You are not a damage dealer.

spartaxoxo

Vigarr wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

Kusto wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

Weak dps doesn't mean fake like the fake tanks who don't taunt...I can pick up the slack for weak players in my party but I refuse to pick up the aggro for a fake

This here is why real tanks avoid pugs. This attitude that I as a dps can be bad or fake but support roles must be real and serve me no matter what.

In my experience with pugs, 9 out of 10 failed vet runs are because of bad dps and not because of fake or bad tanks/healers.

I agree low dps have no business in vet dungeons and therefore should be kicked as well if too much of a strain on the other dps but there's a huge difference between being bad at your role then being the wrong role just to cheat the que. Fake tanks not only make boss fights more annoying/difficult, they're also a middle finger to the 2 real dps who waited out the long que

Fake dps are also a middle finger to the tank and other dps who they expect to carry them so they can play however they want. A lot of them are not new players, they are entitled players who think that shouldn't have to care about their groupmates when signing up for group activities because they can do whatever they want. That's the vast majority of them.

I don't see that often in vet pugs but obviously they should be kicked too...especially if they're not trying

I meant not trying to learn the game mechanics, rather than a lack of effort in dungeons. They always say why they haven't tried to learn "I do what I wamt."

starkerealm

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Fake dps are also a middle finger to the tank and other dps who they expect to carry them so they can play however they want. A lot of them are not new players, they are entitled players who think that shouldn't have to care about their groupmates when signing up for group activities because they can do whatever they want. That's the vast majority of them.

Not sure I'd go exactly that far. A lot of the really terrible DPS I see, appear to be players who power leveled to where they are (maybe via the Dolmen train, maybe Skyreach, maybe BRP), but never learned to actually play the game, and think, "now that I've reached CP 1XXX, I'm good enough," without ever learning how to play in the first place.

I mean, it's hard to know for sure, but I do see a lot of people taking that approach in grinding out levels and CP.

Lumsdenml

Are you DPS shaming?

waterfairy

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

Kusto wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

Weak dps doesn't mean fake like the fake tanks who don't taunt...I can pick up the slack for weak players in my party but I refuse to pick up the aggro for a fake

This here is why real tanks avoid pugs. This attitude that I as a dps can be bad or fake but support roles must be real and serve me no matter what.

In my experience with pugs, 9 out of 10 failed vet runs are because of bad dps and not because of fake or bad tanks/healers.

I agree low dps have no business in vet dungeons and therefore should be kicked as well if too much of a strain on the other dps but there's a huge difference between being bad at your role then being the wrong role just to cheat the que. Fake tanks not only make boss fights more annoying/difficult, they're also a middle finger to the 2 real dps who waited out the long que

Fake dps are also a middle finger to the tank and other dps who they expect to carry them so they can play however they want. A lot of them are not new players, they are entitled players who think that shouldn't have to care about their groupmates when signing up for group activities because they can do whatever they want. That's the vast majority of them.

I don't see that often in vet pugs but obviously they should be kicked too...especially if they're not trying

I meant not trying to learn the game mechanics, rather than a lack of effort in dungeons. They always say why they haven't tried to learn "I do what I wamt."

that could be any idiot in any role though..like the tanks who don't know the mechs and get pissy when you try to teach them or the dps who refuse to burn the add that does the thing

starkerealm

Vigarr wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

Kusto wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

Weak dps doesn't mean fake like the fake tanks who don't taunt...I can pick up the slack for weak players in my party but I refuse to pick up the aggro for a fake

This here is why real tanks avoid pugs. This attitude that I as a dps can be bad or fake but support roles must be real and serve me no matter what.

In my experience with pugs, 9 out of 10 failed vet runs are because of bad dps and not because of fake or bad tanks/healers.

I agree low dps have no business in vet dungeons and therefore should be kicked as well if too much of a strain on the other dps but there's a huge difference between being bad at your role then being the wrong role just to cheat the que. Fake tanks not only make boss fights more annoying/difficult, they're also a middle finger to the 2 real dps who waited out the long que

Fake dps are also a middle finger to the tank and other dps who they expect to carry them so they can play however they want. A lot of them are not new players, they are entitled players who think that shouldn't have to care about their groupmates when signing up for group activities because they can do whatever they want. That's the vast majority of them.

I don't see that often in vet pugs but obviously they should be kicked too...especially if they're not trying

I meant not trying to learn the game mechanics, rather than a lack of effort in dungeons. They always say why they haven't tried to learn "I do what I wamt."

that could be any idiot in any role though..like the tanks who don't know the mechs and get pissy when you try to teach them or the dps who refuse to burn the add that does the thing

Watched a PUG tank on @xynode's stream yesterday. The random tank was using chains as a taunt in vBRF.

Though, seriously, the randoms got to Galchobhar without anyone dropping out. (The healer eventually bailed there.) And once Xy managed to talk the tank through using an actual taunt, they cleared.

I mean, we've all been there with players that don't know what they're doing. But, serious credit to the players who put their foot in it, and then are actually willing to listen and learn. All the respect for someone who makes a mistake, but is willing to learn.

spartaxoxo

starkerealm wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Fake dps are also a middle finger to the tank and other dps who they expect to carry them so they can play however they want. A lot of them are not new players, they are entitled players who think that shouldn't have to care about their groupmates when signing up for group activities because they can do whatever they want. That's the vast majority of them.

Not sure I'd go exactly that far. A lot of the really terrible DPS I see, appear to be players who power leveled to where they are (maybe via the Dolmen train, maybe Skyreach, maybe BRP), but never learned to actually play the game, and think, "now that I've reached CP 1XXX, I'm good enough," without ever learning how to play in the first place.

I mean, it's hard to know for sure, but I do see a lot of people taking that approach in grinding out levels and CP.

I would. I have seen enough "nobody has the right to tell us how to play," posts from these dps, name-calling of better dps, and absolute refusal to accept help no matter how nicely it's offered by others while in game to know that a lot of them have built their characters exactly how they want to have built them and don't actually care about their dps output. And they consider you an elitist for wanting them to have very minimal numbers. Or for even wanting them to know how much damage they are doing.

I don't see nearly as much coddling of the tanks amd supports to do whatever they feel like doing, and see way more of the real supports/tanks (rather than queue hoppers) actually want to learn their characters and seek advice on mechanics. Probably because the game punishes them harder for not knowing and players put up with them not doing things in a way that works for groups a lot less. You're way more likely to see a tank that loses aggro a lot kicked, even if they are taunting, over a 5k dps.

Kusto

starkerealm wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

Kusto wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

Weak dps doesn't mean fake like the fake tanks who don't taunt...I can pick up the slack for weak players in my party but I refuse to pick up the aggro for a fake

This here is why real tanks avoid pugs. This attitude that I as a dps can be bad or fake but support roles must be real and serve me no matter what.

In my experience with pugs, 9 out of 10 failed vet runs are because of bad dps and not because of fake or bad tanks/healers.

I agree low dps have no business in vet dungeons and therefore should be kicked as well if too much of a strain on the other dps but there's a huge difference between being bad at your role then being the wrong role just to cheat the que. Fake tanks not only make boss fights more annoying/difficult, they're also a middle finger to the 2 real dps who waited out the long que

Fake dps are also a middle finger to the tank and other dps who they expect to carry them so they can play however they want. A lot of them are not new players, they are entitled players who think that shouldn't have to care about their groupmates when signing up for group activities because they can do whatever they want. That's the vast majority of them.

I don't see that often in vet pugs but obviously they should be kicked too...especially if they're not trying

I meant not trying to learn the game mechanics, rather than a lack of effort in dungeons. They always say why they haven't tried to learn "I do what I wamt."

that could be any idiot in any role though..like the tanks who don't know the mechs and get pissy when you try to teach them or the dps who refuse to burn the add that does the thing

Watched a PUG tank on @xynode's stream yesterday. The random tank was using chains as a taunt in vBRF.

Though, seriously, the randoms got to Galchobhar without anyone dropping out. (The healer eventually bailed there.) And once Xy managed to talk the tank through using an actual taunt, they cleared.

I mean, we've all been there with players that don't know what they're doing. But, serious credit to the players who put their foot in it, and then are actually willing to listen and learn. All the respect for someone who makes a mistake, but is willing to learn.

I didn't watch the stream but fyi chains are used to soft taunt. Its helpful in some situations, usually in trials where there's another tank and you dont wanna accidentally taunt something that he's holding.

starkerealm

Kusto wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

Kusto wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

Weak dps doesn't mean fake like the fake tanks who don't taunt...I can pick up the slack for weak players in my party but I refuse to pick up the aggro for a fake

This here is why real tanks avoid pugs. This attitude that I as a dps can be bad or fake but support roles must be real and serve me no matter what.

In my experience with pugs, 9 out of 10 failed vet runs are because of bad dps and not because of fake or bad tanks/healers.

I agree low dps have no business in vet dungeons and therefore should be kicked as well if too much of a strain on the other dps but there's a huge difference between being bad at your role then being the wrong role just to cheat the que. Fake tanks not only make boss fights more annoying/difficult, they're also a middle finger to the 2 real dps who waited out the long que

Fake dps are also a middle finger to the tank and other dps who they expect to carry them so they can play however they want. A lot of them are not new players, they are entitled players who think that shouldn't have to care about their groupmates when signing up for group activities because they can do whatever they want. That's the vast majority of them.

I don't see that often in vet pugs but obviously they should be kicked too...especially if they're not trying

I meant not trying to learn the game mechanics, rather than a lack of effort in dungeons. They always say why they haven't tried to learn "I do what I wamt."

that could be any idiot in any role though..like the tanks who don't know the mechs and get pissy when you try to teach them or the dps who refuse to burn the add that does the thing

Watched a PUG tank on @xynode's stream yesterday. The random tank was using chains as a taunt in vBRF.

Though, seriously, the randoms got to Galchobhar without anyone dropping out. (The healer eventually bailed there.) And once Xy managed to talk the tank through using an actual taunt, they cleared.

I mean, we've all been there with players that don't know what they're doing. But, serious credit to the players who put their foot in it, and then are actually willing to listen and learn. All the respect for someone who makes a mistake, but is willing to learn.

I didn't watch the stream but fyi chains are used to soft taunt. Its helpful in some situations, usually in trials where there's another tank and you dont wanna accidentally taunt something that he's holding.

Not exactly. Chains are used to draw aggro on The Twins in Maw of Lorkhaj (and in a few other cases, though mostly it's The Twins), when the tanks will intentionally juggle the targets before taunting. The problem is, while this is sometimes called a, "soft taunt," the fact is the target is untaunted, and will only keep focus on the tank for a few seconds, after that it'll wander off and start splattering the DPS.

Now, strictly speaking, I've even been guilty of this terminology in the past. If you understand that you're just drawing aggro, any ranged ability that doesn't have a taunt can be used to pull the Twins, before you need to swap them. However, there's now an entire crop of people who hear, "soft taunt," and think the boss is taunted. Which, isn't really the case.

There was only one soft taunt in ESO and, unfortunately, it was undocumented at the time. The Clanfear used to have a soft taunt, would actually taunt enemies and even bosses, but the taunt could be overriden by any player taunt. However, this was removed years ago. Ironically, a major issue with the Clanfear was in Hel Ra Citadel, where it would taunt the Warrior and would seriously disrupt the fight.

If you see someone "taunting" with chains, the things they're hitting are not taunted. If you're tanking and using chains to grab things, immediately follow it with a pierce armor after it gets to you, or if you don't care about maintaining a taunt (which is likely, given it's probably a trash add), use claw to hold it in place after it arrives.

starkerealm

spartaxoxo wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Fake dps are also a middle finger to the tank and other dps who they expect to carry them so they can play however they want. A lot of them are not new players, they are entitled players who think that shouldn't have to care about their groupmates when signing up for group activities because they can do whatever they want. That's the vast majority of them.

Not sure I'd go exactly that far. A lot of the really terrible DPS I see, appear to be players who power leveled to where they are (maybe via the Dolmen train, maybe Skyreach, maybe BRP), but never learned to actually play the game, and think, "now that I've reached CP 1XXX, I'm good enough," without ever learning how to play in the first place.

I mean, it's hard to know for sure, but I do see a lot of people taking that approach in grinding out levels and CP.

I would. I have seen enough "nobody has the right to tell us how to play," posts from these dps, name-calling of better dps, and absolute refusal to accept help no matter how nicely it's offered by others while in game to know that a lot of them have built their characters exactly how they want to have built them and don't actually care about their dps output. And they consider you an elitist for wanting them to have very minimal numbers. Or for even wanting them to know how much damage they are doing.

Those also exist. I've seen them in game as well. But, what I've seen in game is that they're vastly outnumbered by the ones who simply think a mountain of CP and, "BiS" gear will carry them.

Even on these boards, you'll frequently see people who seem to think that they need capped CP (or, now, an arbitrary amount of CP) to be effective. Yeah, you'll perform better, but we've all seen those 2.5k DPS with high triple digit CPs.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I don't see nearly as much coddling of the tanks amd supports to do whatever they feel like doing, and see way more of the real supports/tanks (rather than queue hoppers) actually want to learn their characters and seek advice on mechanics. Probably because the game punishes them harder for not knowing and players put up with them not doing things in a way that works for groups a lot less. You're way more likely to see a tank that loses aggro a lot kicked, even if they are taunting, over a 5k dps.

Probably because the DPS are more likely to blame the tank when they die, even when it's not the tank's fault. I've seen DPS get irritable over dying to mechanics that they need to avoid, and the tank cannot manipulate.

Granted, I haven't seen that especially often, but I'm rarely in a situation where I'm seeing inexperienced tanks. Even then, I have had a few DPS who've stood in stupid and blamed anyone but themselves. (Also encountered a few tanks that would blame the healer or DPS for their own failures.)

svendf

Kusto wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

Kusto wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

Weak dps doesn't mean fake like the fake tanks who don't taunt...I can pick up the slack for weak players in my party but I refuse to pick up the aggro for a fake

This here is why real tanks avoid pugs. This attitude that I as a dps can be bad or fake but support roles must be real and serve me no matter what.

In my experience with pugs, 9 out of 10 failed vet runs are because of bad dps and not because of fake or bad tanks/healers.

I agree low dps have no business in vet dungeons and therefore should be kicked as well if too much of a strain on the other dps but there's a huge difference between being bad at your role then being the wrong role just to cheat the que. Fake tanks not only make boss fights more annoying/difficult, they're also a middle finger to the 2 real dps who waited out the long que

Fake dps are also a middle finger to the tank and other dps who they expect to carry them so they can play however they want. A lot of them are not new players, they are entitled players who think that shouldn't have to care about their groupmates when signing up for group activities because they can do whatever they want. That's the vast majority of them.

I don't see that often in vet pugs but obviously they should be kicked too...especially if they're not trying

I meant not trying to learn the game mechanics, rather than a lack of effort in dungeons. They always say why they haven't tried to learn "I do what I wamt."

that could be any idiot in any role though..like the tanks who don't know the mechs and get pissy when you try to teach them or the dps who refuse to burn the add that does the thing

Watched a PUG tank on @xynode's stream yesterday. The random tank was using chains as a taunt in vBRF.

Though, seriously, the randoms got to Galchobhar without anyone dropping out. (The healer eventually bailed there.) And once Xy managed to talk the tank through using an actual taunt, they cleared.

I mean, we've all been there with players that don't know what they're doing. But, serious credit to the players who put their foot in it, and then are actually willing to listen and learn. All the respect for someone who makes a mistake, but is willing to learn.

I didn't watch the stream but fyi chains are used to soft taunt. Its helpful in some situations, usually in trials where there's another tank and you dont wanna accidentally taunt something that he's holding.

Do you play as a tank (a real tank) ? Could you please high light, when you use softtaund and, whenyou use puncture, innerfire ?
I saw that stream. You can go to his website or YT and have a look at it.

I donn´t know what you try to communicate, when put into practis