I never realized how many fake damage dealers there was until I started playing Tank/Healer

TheUndeadAmulet

I don't want to spend over an hour in Vet CoH2 because one DD is spamming force pulse (with no light attack weaving) and the other is only using wall of elements and lightning staff heavies. Please.

The funniest part is once I realized how many fake DD's there were, I started paying attention to my partner DD when I'm playing as a DD. It's sad to say that close to 50% of the time I'm the only player actually contributing damage.

RedFireDisco

There need to be hints on loading screens before dungeons and checklists when selecting a role

DPS's should run ground AOE's, dots, and really all damage needs to be area of effect, save for boss only skills.

The amount of times I've seen some scrub firing single target damage at mobs, or wearing S&B for DPS roles is easily as often as I see a "slap on a resto to heal" type or no-taunt tanks.

Amottica

RedFireDisco wrote: »

There need to be hints on loading screens before dungeons and checklists when selecting a role

DPS's should run ground AOE's, dots, and really all damage needs to be area of effect, save for boss only skills.

The amount of times I've seen some scrub firing single target damage at mobs, or wearing S&B for DPS roles is easily as often as I see a "slap on a resto to heal" type or no-taunt tanks.

Considering taunts are fairly standard for tanking in most MMORPGs like ESO I do not think offering a checklist that mentions that for those who selected the tank role will have any effect. It is pretty much the same reason some have noted that suggestions of requiring having a taunt unlocked or even slotted would change nothing since it will not require the player to use it or even keep it on their bar.

I can only imagine I was fortunate that I found a good guild as easily as I did. It was not hard for me. I run with them most of the time and the experience is superior to anything I have gotten via the GF. However, when I do queue solo I do realize I am asking for randomness in so many ways.

Vevvev

I saw this thread coming a mile away after the similarly named one gained traction lol. My end verdict is there is a large population of people who have no idea how to play ESO, and it shows because I feel like I spend most of my time in guild and zone chats theory crafting builds, helping people out, and talking about game mechanics. Every day I run into someone who learns something new from this stuff we talk about.

Eiregirl

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

I don't want to spend over an hour in Vet CoH2 because one DD is spamming force pulse (with no light attack weaving) and the other is only using wall of elements and lightning staff heavies. Please.

The funniest part is once I realized how many fake DD's there were, I started paying attention to my partner DD when I'm playing as a DD. It's sad to say that close to 50% of the time I'm the only player actually contributing damage.

If you are talking about random dungeons it is nothing new been that way for a long time...fake tanks, healers and dd's.

Oh and if those dd's know what they are doing with that lightning staff and wall of elements in vet COH they would not even need a tank or a healer.

TTHHORR

Today I took a break from pvp to farm some Icereach as a DD with medusa/MS templar:

3 games went like this:
1st - Veteran - I did 70%-75% of damage. Tank + healer did great. Other DD had 30k health.
2nd - Veteran - Ended up with the same tank, thought I could show that it wasn't my fault for the last game being slightly longer, still ended up doing 70% of damage...
3rd - Normal - This time I had between 60% and even up to 80% of the damage done during boss fights.

Humble brag aside, I try to be patient and never complain about this in the ingame chats because I'm not even good myself, but yeah, fake Healers/Tanks aren't the only problem. I do have to point out that this is very much the games fault when it comes to casual players though. If I didn't check out online guides and didn't talk to people, I wouldn't know [snip] about the mechanics, what works, that you're supposed to put everything into one stat and so on. Alot of people that get into ESO try to play like it's Skyrim and that just doesn't work.

essi2

There are no fake DDs, only bad or sub-par DDs.

kargen27

essi2 wrote: »

There are no fake DDs, only bad or sub-par DDs.

yep so long as they are at least trying to do the role they signed up for all is good.

starkerealm

kargen27 wrote: »

essi2 wrote: »

There are no fake DDs, only bad or sub-par DDs.

yep so long as they are at least trying to do the role they signed up for all is good.

I mean, it can be miserable to tank for them, but they are trying, and you can't fault them for that.

Supreme_Atromancer

The fact is, if you're here on the forums, you're likely more invested in the game and have a higher aptitude or experience than the vast majority of players.

If you don't want to spend an hour doing vCOH2, don't. Leave. Join a guild or find some friends to run with. We all know, over and over and OVER again how annoying pugs are, but 7 years of complaining hasn't changed a thing.

redlink1979

This is why you might don't want to pug vet content...
Again, there aren't fake dds: they're not really faking their role, they're just players with bad parses or no parses at all.

SydneyGrey

There is bad or incompetent DPS, but there is no "fake" DPS. It's not like they're just pretending to be DPS to get a shorter queue in Dungeon Finder, which is what we see for healers and tanks (unfortunately).

The problem is that there are only three roles a person can choose from when queuing for a dungeon, and if a newer player (or someone just new to dungeons) knows he's not a healer or a tank, DPS is the only choice left. Yes, it stinks. It would be nice if people would try to be as competent as they can be before they queue for dungeons, but unfortunately sometimes they don't know what they're doing. He probably just wanted the monster helm.

alberichtano

Eiregirl wrote: »

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

I don't want to spend over an hour in Vet CoH2 because one DD is spamming force pulse (with no light attack weaving) and the other is only using wall of elements and lightning staff heavies. Please.

The funniest part is once I realized how many fake DD's there were, I started paying attention to my partner DD when I'm playing as a DD. It's sad to say that close to 50% of the time I'm the only player actually contributing damage.

If you are talking about random dungeons it is nothing new been that way for a long time...fake tanks, healers and dd's.

Oh and if those dd's know what they are doing with that lightning staff and wall of elements in vet COH they would not even need a tank or a healer.

...and that is why we have fake DDs. As my tank is now virtually useless, I started going fake DD instead. Most pugs just rush ahead anyways, only bothering about tanks when they get killed for, you know, rushing ahead. :-P

Casul

It's why I dropped tanking. Rather a 2 hour queue and 15 minute dungeon then a 15 second queue and 2 hour dungeon.

EF321

BuildMan wrote: »

It's why I dropped tanking. Rather a 2 hour queue and 15 minute dungeon then a 15 second queue and 2 hour dungeon.

Yep, at least I can do other stuff while in queue.

spartaxoxo

SydneyGrey wrote: »

There is bad or incompetent DPS, but there is no "fake" DPS. It's not like they're just pretending to be DPS to get a shorter queue in Dungeon Finder, which is what we see for healers and tanks (unfortunately).

The problem is that there are only three roles a person can choose from when queuing for a dungeon, and if a newer player (or someone just new to dungeons) knows he's not a healer or a tank, DPS is the only choice left. Yes, it stinks. It would be nice if people would try to be as competent as they can be before they queue for dungeons, but unfortunately sometimes they don't know what they're doing. He probably just wanted the monster helm.

Fake just means not authentic. It doesn't have to be deceptive. It usually is but not always.

For example these are both examples of fake money.




One of them is meant to trick the person looking at it into thinking it's real, so that movies can have believable scenes featuring cash. It's deceptive. The other is going out of it's way not to look real so it cannot be possibly be perceived as authentic. It's the opposite of deceptive.

Only one is deceptive but they are both fake because they aren't real money.

The same is true of fake dps. They may not be outright lying about their role. But they are queueing up for a role they don't meet the bare minimum requirements to qualify as. They are fakes. And all the attempts to language police people with this pseudo-intellectual grammar policing is to distract from the real issue that these people are ruining the queue environment.

And a lot of them are NOT new players. They are players that fakes because they are negligent (don't care to try to learn but might be reasoned with if pulled aside) or unwilling to learn, because they want to play their way at the expense of the group and everyone else.

preevious

Weird ..

I consider myself a respectable DD. I play by the rule and am able to dish large amount of hurt (and yes, I know my numbers, and what numbers should be attained for any given content).

Every time I play in veteran, using dungeon finder, I end up doing 45% (wich is normal) to 60% (wich mean that, though I am stronger, the other DD still contributes meaningfully).

I never, ever, have sad stories where I do 65 - 105% of the damage..

(EDIT : I do have them in normal, but it's par for the course, there)

I must be lucky.

NupidStoob

Them trying or not trying doesn't matter as they are not fulfilling their role which is the actual problem. Doesn't matter whose fault it is either whether it's them not informing themselves in a teamgame or ZoS not providing enough information. It's also irrelevant how you want to label them.

There is always so much fingerpointing and blaming in these kind of threads, but hardly ever is anyone pointing their finger at the people that are the actual problem. Namely anyone who goes into any form of group content with pugs and has expectations. If you queue for a dungeon it is entirely on you if you end up with a group you are dissatisfied with. We have a guildfinder, numerous guilds and discords and even the forums. It is NOT hard to find groups to play with. If you queue for dungeons you can even team up with the people you considered good enough or add them to friendslist. If you don't want to be social in an MMO you are playing the wrong type of game.

These forum/reddit threads do nothing, but spread negativity and are entirely unproductive. ZoS could add elaborate tutorials, force role selection based on build/skills, punish people for fake queuing and it would change absolutely nothing. We would simply introduce new problems all the while people will still complain cause their expectations aren't being met. Dunning Kruger effect is always at full force in threads like this.

Vylaera

Whenever I queue for a random normal when I need transmute crystals, I'm expecting to carry, and I usually do. I can solo all normal dungeons including most of the DLC ones, as well as most of the non-DLC ones on veteran, so it's not something that bothers me, but I can imagine the frustration tanks and healers have when they load in and see the DPS wearing mismatched set armors they got from the Vvardenfell story.

I had to run a few randoms over the past few days to reconstruct a few things for my new mag warden, and in almost every single one of them, I did around 65 to 70% of the damage according to Combat Metrics. Keeping in mind that the tank and healer account for a few percentage points, the other dps in random queue was only doing about 20 to 25%.

So to make a point of all this, I think the game should, in some way, explain how it's supposed to be played. Because, according to the marketing trailers, all you have to do is heavy attack with a lightning staff.

Or the game should pair you with people that are close to your level and sort by level brackets. CP 300+ in one bracket, 10 - CP 299 in the other. But still allow pre-made groups to be any assortment of levels.

rpa

Well I tried to Dragons with my dps in-need-to-learn-reliable-rotation and ended taking the aggro & chomped. So much that I dusted off another char and made a tank can-taunt-need-to-learn-reliable-defense-and-debuff. And I have great trouble keeping aggro. Sometimes its another wannabe tank, then I stop taunting and stand next em and try that debuff thing, but other times just some poor dps taking aggro and getting chomped.

RoninMB

essi2 wrote: »

There are no fake DDs, only bad or sub-par DDs.

Not true. I've been in numerus dungeons where the dd was actually the "tank" and the tank was the dd. Don't know if they were grouped together and thought it would be funny to do that or what but it happens.

vivisectvib16_ESO

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

I don't want to spend over an hour in Vet CoH2 because one DD is spamming force pulse (with no light attack weaving) and the other is only using wall of elements and lightning staff heavies. Please.

The funniest part is once I realized how many fake DD's there were, I started paying attention to my partner DD when I'm playing as a DD. It's sad to say that close to 50% of the time I'm the only player actually contributing damage.

I wouldn't necessarily call these people "fake" -- it's not like they're a DPS queuing as a healer or a tank, with no intention of even trying to fulfill that role. Most likely, these folks haven't learned how to maximize their damage, which in this game, is no surprise, since there is nothing intuitive about the way this game "teaches" players how to play.

davidtk

TTHHORR wrote: »

1st - Veteran - I did 70%-75% of damage. Tank + healer did great. Other DD had 30k health.

And may I ask you, 30k health on DD means what?

Sorry i just don't understand why it is mentioned here. With food buff and Gaze of Sithis head i have 31k health ...

zvavi

davidtk wrote: »

TTHHORR wrote: »

1st - Veteran - I did 70%-75% of damage. Tank + healer did great. Other DD had 30k health.

And may I ask you, 30k health on DD means what?

Sorry i just don't understand why it is mentioned here. With food buff and Gaze of Sithis head i have 31k health ...

It means he is investing way too much health than needed to survive. Investment that should have went into making sure the build can actually deal an adequate amount of damage.

Edit: grammar xd

davidtk

zvavi wrote: »

It means he is investigating way too much health than needed to survive. Investment that should have went into making sure the build can actually deal an adequate amount of damage.

Thank you for the explanation, I was just curious, because with my stam DD I have an adequate amount of damage and still higher health when use Sithis, otherwise I have 27.5k health. And no problem, thats all

Artemis_X_

Had a look through my recent eso logs. 60% of DDs I'm my pug normals do under 10k dps, 25% do under 6k.

spartaxoxo

davidtk wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

It means he is investigating way too much health than needed to survive. Investment that should have went into making sure the build can actually deal an adequate amount of damage.

Thank you for the explanation, I was just curious, because with my stam DD I have an adequate amount of damage and still higher health when use Sithis, otherwise I have 27.5k health. And no problem, thats all

Define adequate amount of damage...just curious. Like what number?

Edit: because I was looking at gaze not because questioning that

davidtk

spartaxoxo wrote: »

davidtk wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

It means he is investigating way too much health than needed to survive. Investment that should have went into making sure the build can actually deal an adequate amount of damage.

Thank you for the explanation, I was just curious, because with my stam DD I have an adequate amount of damage and still higher health when use Sithis, otherwise I have 27.5k health. And no problem, thats all

Define adequate amount of damage...just curious. Like what number?

Edit: because I was looking at gaze not because questioning that

I understand that DD in vet dung who can do under 20k DPS is real pain problem...

Adequate amount of damage was not defined in this thread. What number should it be counted from?
Anyway I still have room for improvement and the last time it was on dummy about 40k DPS. And still have big problem with light weaving, damn it.

I using Releq/Selene(Sithis)/Hunding <- i can't use Tzogvin yet because drop rate for tzogvin dagger is how to say... super low. And Vateshran still don't gave me Thunderous Volley. But i am used to it, because at some several "good" sets (DD, healer) i missing one damned piece for using it, damn random drop.

BTW i doing vet dungeons with real tank

So can you suggest me better secondary set (Edit: I forgot... Stam Necro WW build)?
And about Gaze... Block Mitigation is problem, but if you can do roll dodge, you are fine...

Hawco10

100% agree OP. There’s nothing worse than suffering through that. As a healer, I encounter this quite a lot. Some of these dungeons takes up to an hour and sometimes longer.best pug run was vet Mazz. The stars lined up for me and we got through that in under 30 mins.
DD’s standing in big red circles then wondering why they are dying is tiresome tbh.
Please go and watch some build videos or something. Learn how things work then come back and be better for it.

neferpitou73

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

The fact is, if you're here on the forums, you're likely more invested in the game and have a higher aptitude or experience than the vast majority of players.

If you don't want to spend an hour doing vCOH2, don't. Leave. Join a guild or find some friends to run with. We all know, over and over and OVER again how annoying pugs are, but 7 years of complaining hasn't changed a thing.

"If you want to queue as a DPS but can't perform your role. Don't. Just form your own group and get someone to carry you instead of wasting other people's time"

It goes both ways

EDIT: On a less sarcastic note. One of the major problems this game has is that you can do almost anything with enough dps. So you can get away with lacking a healer or a tank so long as your dps is high enough to burn everything before you get killed. The other way around (lacking DPS) is much harder to survive. Hence OP's (and my own) consternation. Although I'm always willing to help new folks in dungeons

Jierdanit

essi2 wrote: »

There are no fake DDs, only bad or sub-par DDs.

You expect a tank to be able to tank when they queue for a dungeon.

Youre still going to call him a fake tank when he doesnt taunt bosses, even though it might just be cause they dont know how to.

So I think you should also be able expect someone to be able to do damage when they queue as a DD.

And I would say that in that matter it is fair to call someone a fake DD even though they just dont do damage, because they dont know how to do so properly.

In my opinion anyone with less than 10k dps at least who queues as a DD can be considered a fake DD in the same way you would call someone who doesnt taunt a fake tank.