Stamdk spammable

BohnT2

Please return the discussion to be about stamdk receiving an instant, meele spammable.
Right now the class is pushed into a niche that's already taken by Necro and Warden and there is no chance of DK ever competing with those.

None of the available skills allow stamdk to replace Dizzy or to utilize S&B frontbar properly.

Extinct_Solo_Player

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

I don't even run a spammable on my Stam DK. I'd prefer running a third dot, but Soul Trap got nerfed into oblivion. I think Cleave might be it next patch. You can apply Noxious, Venomous and then apply the Cleave bleed three times. It's just an idea, but I will give it a try. (Talking PVP of course. In PVE I run Lethal Arrow.)

I have a lot of playtime using both Brawler and Carve on DK. It will be nice to be able to spam Carve without overwriting the DoT, but outside of pure ballgroup style tactics - where Whirlwind tends to take the lead anyhow - before long I always end up in a situation where I need a single target spammable besides Executioner. We do have a third class DoT and everyone has it slotted already - that which will no longer de-cloak - one can easily build to deal appreciable damage with it on Stam in 2021.

TheEndBringer wrote: »

You get the small little damage buff from sword and shield to boost your healing.

So the difference in tooltip between 1h and 2h weapons is for better healing on 2h?

Do you know what the main heal for a DK tank is? It doesn't scale off WD.

Go and read my comments in that thread about deleting NB where I say "every class should have unfair things about them".

For DK, that's being able to deal damage even when taking the apparent form of a "tank".

How often do I hear: "StamDK is weak class in PvP. And by PvP I mean 7 medium and a bow, kite until Ult spamming RaT, since this is the only appropriate way to play"

DKs are meant to be able to deal damage in PvP with a Sword and Board in Heavy Armor, mostly just sitting in melee range, not running around constantly. That's how the class was designed. If this is far outside the meta, that's why we're thought of so poorly in PvP. Accept that this capacity to deal damage in the form of a tank is our unfair edge and don't advocate for further homogenization.

Healing scales of weapon and spell damage. There are like a dozen healing sets that give damage to buff healing. Example light speaker.

Dragon Blood is a percentage heal which is why it doesn't scale to damage. Has nothing to do with what weapon you're wearing.

S&B is a defensive set. This is pretty obvious. Look at the passives. Look at the arena sets. Look at the ultimate. Look at the skills. I'm not telling you not to beg ZOS to make it more combat friendly. I'm simply stating that isn't currently the case.

As tanky as DKs are I'm not really sure why you need a shield on your damage bar but to each their own.

For the most part of the game S&B hasn't been pigeonholed into being a defensive only weapon, it was along with 2h an actually viable skill line, then someone decided to gut it.

Also calling DK tanky is a joke in and of itself, the days of DK being tanky are long gone, everything that make it once tanky has either been nerfed, removed from the game or isn't on par with the current game.

DKs are up there with warden and necro for survivability. But like everything is give and take. If you wear 3 damage sets on any of those classes you'll die.

Dude, no way you think that. It just confirms to everyone who actually have experience with multiple classes that you really don't have a clue. I think you are stuck in the mindset of when dk was actually decent which hasn't been the case for a couple of years.

Okay after warden and necro what class is the next tanky? With all passives unlocked with Major Resolve they are very tough. Wings. Dragon blood. Armor. Free resource return via passive.

I'm not saying they are as tanky as wardens and necros but they are definitely #3.

1. that is easily countered by penetration which is widely available to most classes so i wouldn't even class that as a game changer to making them "tough"
2. No stam dk can sustain wings, armor buff,fragmented shield and dragon blood and if you even tried dragonblood on stam dk you would know how bad it is, healing for 4-5k at low hp while also costing 4k+ magicka its a terrible skill imo. wings i won't even talk about because its useless for a Stam dk lol.
3. You do realise the resource return is tied to ulti cost so you are forced to spend your ultimate just to sustain while other classes have flat regen passives and skills returning resources over time while dk does not. That's not a good argument for saying they are tanky at all lol.

You missed the entire point. By default they are number 3 in tankiness and survivability. You can either use this to your advantage or go full damage. That's a choice.

I'm not really sure what the argument is here. There's a reason why DK is the ultimate tank trainer for new players.

Dragon blood is great but if you're sitting at 80% health you won't get the same pop as if you're at 20% because it's not a flat value. It's percentage based. When used in conjunction with vigor you can use dragon as your oh *** heal.

If you need a S&B attack bar to survive on a DK then you're doing something wrong. No offense intended but it's true. I have two DKs myself and I spend a lot of time trying to kill them on my NB. A 2h stamdk is a tough foe to bring down. Even in all medium.

just gonna assume you are trolling from here onwards.

DrSlaughtr

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

I don't even run a spammable on my Stam DK. I'd prefer running a third dot, but Soul Trap got nerfed into oblivion. I think Cleave might be it next patch. You can apply Noxious, Venomous and then apply the Cleave bleed three times. It's just an idea, but I will give it a try. (Talking PVP of course. In PVE I run Lethal Arrow.)

I have a lot of playtime using both Brawler and Carve on DK. It will be nice to be able to spam Carve without overwriting the DoT, but outside of pure ballgroup style tactics - where Whirlwind tends to take the lead anyhow - before long I always end up in a situation where I need a single target spammable besides Executioner. We do have a third class DoT and everyone has it slotted already - that which will no longer de-cloak - one can easily build to deal appreciable damage with it on Stam in 2021.

TheEndBringer wrote: »

You get the small little damage buff from sword and shield to boost your healing.

So the difference in tooltip between 1h and 2h weapons is for better healing on 2h?

Do you know what the main heal for a DK tank is? It doesn't scale off WD.

Go and read my comments in that thread about deleting NB where I say "every class should have unfair things about them".

For DK, that's being able to deal damage even when taking the apparent form of a "tank".

How often do I hear: "StamDK is weak class in PvP. And by PvP I mean 7 medium and a bow, kite until Ult spamming RaT, since this is the only appropriate way to play"

DKs are meant to be able to deal damage in PvP with a Sword and Board in Heavy Armor, mostly just sitting in melee range, not running around constantly. That's how the class was designed. If this is far outside the meta, that's why we're thought of so poorly in PvP. Accept that this capacity to deal damage in the form of a tank is our unfair edge and don't advocate for further homogenization.

Healing scales of weapon and spell damage. There are like a dozen healing sets that give damage to buff healing. Example light speaker.

Dragon Blood is a percentage heal which is why it doesn't scale to damage. Has nothing to do with what weapon you're wearing.

S&B is a defensive set. This is pretty obvious. Look at the passives. Look at the arena sets. Look at the ultimate. Look at the skills. I'm not telling you not to beg ZOS to make it more combat friendly. I'm simply stating that isn't currently the case.

As tanky as DKs are I'm not really sure why you need a shield on your damage bar but to each their own.

For the most part of the game S&B hasn't been pigeonholed into being a defensive only weapon, it was along with 2h an actually viable skill line, then someone decided to gut it.

Also calling DK tanky is a joke in and of itself, the days of DK being tanky are long gone, everything that make it once tanky has either been nerfed, removed from the game or isn't on par with the current game.

DKs are up there with warden and necro for survivability. But like everything is give and take. If you wear 3 damage sets on any of those classes you'll die.

Dude, no way you think that. It just confirms to everyone who actually have experience with multiple classes that you really don't have a clue. I think you are stuck in the mindset of when dk was actually decent which hasn't been the case for a couple of years.

Okay after warden and necro what class is the next tanky? With all passives unlocked with Major Resolve they are very tough. Wings. Dragon blood. Armor. Free resource return via passive.

I'm not saying they are as tanky as wardens and necros but they are definitely #3.

1. that is easily countered by penetration which is widely available to most classes so i wouldn't even class that as a game changer to making them "tough"
2. No stam dk can sustain wings, armor buff,fragmented shield and dragon blood and if you even tried dragonblood on stam dk you would know how bad it is, healing for 4-5k at low hp while also costing 4k+ magicka its a terrible skill imo. wings i won't even talk about because its useless for a Stam dk lol.
3. You do realise the resource return is tied to ulti cost so you are forced to spend your ultimate just to sustain while other classes have flat regen passives and skills returning resources over time while dk does not. That's not a good argument for saying they are tanky at all lol.

You missed the entire point. By default they are number 3 in tankiness and survivability. You can either use this to your advantage or go full damage. That's a choice.

I'm not really sure what the argument is here. There's a reason why DK is the ultimate tank trainer for new players.

Dragon blood is great but if you're sitting at 80% health you won't get the same pop as if you're at 20% because it's not a flat value. It's percentage based. When used in conjunction with vigor you can use dragon as your oh *** heal.

If you need a S&B attack bar to survive on a DK then you're doing something wrong. No offense intended but it's true. I have two DKs myself and I spend a lot of time trying to kill them on my NB. A 2h stamdk is a tough foe to bring down. Even in all medium.

just gonna assume you are trolling from here onwards.

I'm not. What did I say that's incorrect? I'm all for a class spammable for stamdk. The only issue I have here is buffing S&B to be more offensively minded when would come at a cost to it's intended use as a defensive set. It would greatly affect pve.

BohnT2

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

I don't even run a spammable on my Stam DK. I'd prefer running a third dot, but Soul Trap got nerfed into oblivion. I think Cleave might be it next patch. You can apply Noxious, Venomous and then apply the Cleave bleed three times. It's just an idea, but I will give it a try. (Talking PVP of course. In PVE I run Lethal Arrow.)

I have a lot of playtime using both Brawler and Carve on DK. It will be nice to be able to spam Carve without overwriting the DoT, but outside of pure ballgroup style tactics - where Whirlwind tends to take the lead anyhow - before long I always end up in a situation where I need a single target spammable besides Executioner. We do have a third class DoT and everyone has it slotted already - that which will no longer de-cloak - one can easily build to deal appreciable damage with it on Stam in 2021.

TheEndBringer wrote: »

You get the small little damage buff from sword and shield to boost your healing.

So the difference in tooltip between 1h and 2h weapons is for better healing on 2h?

Do you know what the main heal for a DK tank is? It doesn't scale off WD.

Go and read my comments in that thread about deleting NB where I say "every class should have unfair things about them".

For DK, that's being able to deal damage even when taking the apparent form of a "tank".

How often do I hear: "StamDK is weak class in PvP. And by PvP I mean 7 medium and a bow, kite until Ult spamming RaT, since this is the only appropriate way to play"

DKs are meant to be able to deal damage in PvP with a Sword and Board in Heavy Armor, mostly just sitting in melee range, not running around constantly. That's how the class was designed. If this is far outside the meta, that's why we're thought of so poorly in PvP. Accept that this capacity to deal damage in the form of a tank is our unfair edge and don't advocate for further homogenization.

Healing scales of weapon and spell damage. There are like a dozen healing sets that give damage to buff healing. Example light speaker.

Dragon Blood is a percentage heal which is why it doesn't scale to damage. Has nothing to do with what weapon you're wearing.

S&B is a defensive set. This is pretty obvious. Look at the passives. Look at the arena sets. Look at the ultimate. Look at the skills. I'm not telling you not to beg ZOS to make it more combat friendly. I'm simply stating that isn't currently the case.

As tanky as DKs are I'm not really sure why you need a shield on your damage bar but to each their own.

For the most part of the game S&B hasn't been pigeonholed into being a defensive only weapon, it was along with 2h an actually viable skill line, then someone decided to gut it.

Also calling DK tanky is a joke in and of itself, the days of DK being tanky are long gone, everything that make it once tanky has either been nerfed, removed from the game or isn't on par with the current game.

DKs are up there with warden and necro for survivability. But like everything is give and take. If you wear 3 damage sets on any of those classes you'll die.

Dude, no way you think that. It just confirms to everyone who actually have experience with multiple classes that you really don't have a clue. I think you are stuck in the mindset of when dk was actually decent which hasn't been the case for a couple of years.

Okay after warden and necro what class is the next tanky? With all passives unlocked with Major Resolve they are very tough. Wings. Dragon blood. Armor. Free resource return via passive.

I'm not saying they are as tanky as wardens and necros but they are definitely #3.

1. that is easily countered by penetration which is widely available to most classes so i wouldn't even class that as a game changer to making them "tough"
2. No stam dk can sustain wings, armor buff,fragmented shield and dragon blood and if you even tried dragonblood on stam dk you would know how bad it is, healing for 4-5k at low hp while also costing 4k+ magicka its a terrible skill imo. wings i won't even talk about because its useless for a Stam dk lol.
3. You do realise the resource return is tied to ulti cost so you are forced to spend your ultimate just to sustain while other classes have flat regen passives and skills returning resources over time while dk does not. That's not a good argument for saying they are tanky at all lol.

You missed the entire point. By default they are number 3 in tankiness and survivability. You can either use this to your advantage or go full damage. That's a choice.

I'm not really sure what the argument is here. There's a reason why DK is the ultimate tank trainer for new players.

Dragon blood is great but if you're sitting at 80% health you won't get the same pop as if you're at 20% because it's not a flat value. It's percentage based. When used in conjunction with vigor you can use dragon as your oh *** heal.

If you need a S&B attack bar to survive on a DK then you're doing something wrong. No offense intended but it's true. I have two DKs myself and I spend a lot of time trying to kill them on my NB. A 2h stamdk is a tough foe to bring down. Even in all medium.

just gonna assume you are trolling from here onwards.

I'm not. What did I say that's incorrect? I'm all for a class spammable for stamdk. The only issue I have here is buffing S&B to be more offensively minded when would come at a cost to it's intended use as a defensive set. It would greatly affect pve.

Giving stamdk an instant meele class spammable doesn't change anything about S&B in PvE and no one in this post has ever proposed to change anything about S&B.

It's impossible for me to put into words how wrong your other post is without breaking the ToS.

Donatoo

How did this man go from, "I can't speak for Pve" to "It would greatly affect Pve".

DrSlaughtr

Donatoo wrote: »

How did this man go from, "I can't speak for Pve" to "It would greatly affect Pve".

When I said that I was referring to stamdk DDs in PVE. I've never ran a DK DPS in PVE. On that side I've only tanked. In PVP however I have both a mag and stam DK.

Turning S&B into an offensive skill line would greatly affect PVE tanks who rely on its passives and skills to do their job.

As I said earlier, if DK were given a stam spammable, it would obviously perform better with a 2h than a S&B. Then it came "well buff S&B" discussion.

I'm gonna bow out because people are getting nasty for no reason.

BohnT2

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Donatoo wrote: »

How did this man go from, "I can't speak for Pve" to "It would greatly affect Pve".

When I said that I was referring to stamdk DDs in PVE. I've never ran a DK DPS in PVE. On that side I've only tanked. In PVP however I have both a mag and stam DK.

Turning S&B into an offensive skill line would greatly affect PVE tanks who rely on its passives and skills to do their job.

As I said earlier, if DK were given a stam spammable, it would obviously perform better with a 2h than a S&B. Then it came "well buff S&B" discussion.

I'm gonna bow out because people are getting nasty for no reason.

There's no one getting nasty.
There's just people not people letting you write wrong stuff without correcting you.
No one has been talking about turning the S&B skill line into an offensive one.

A spammable on 2h for Dk will always be Dizzying because Dizzy allows you to stack burst due to Dizzy dealing it's damage at the end of a GCD.

The only way a spammable on 2h in PvP can compete is by offering even more damage (jabs) ,if dizzy directly counteracts the playstyle of a class (NB needing the frontloaded damage of suprise attack).

An instant spammable for stamdk would be used on the S&B bar because it allows you to utilize the defensive capabilities of S&B while being able to deal damage and it would instantly give stamdk a niche that only it can fill as other classes lack the spammable to utilize S&B under those circumstances.

Psiion

Greetings,

As this thread seems to have derailed off topic and has since become non-constructive, we have decided to close it down. Disagreements are natural and discussions are bound to evolve as they continue, however both Flaming and Baiting are against the Forum's Community Rules:

Flaming: It’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.

Trolling or Baiting: The act of trolling is defined as something that is created for the intent to provoke conflict, shock others, or to elicit a strong negative or emotional reaction. It’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread, and find another discussion to participate in instead. It is also not constructive or helpful to publicly call out others and accuse them of trolling, or call them a troll—please refrain from doing so. If you genuinely believe someone is trolling, please report the post or thread to the ESO Team, and leave it at that.