Is anyone overlooking the fact they just gutted medium armor

BattleAxe

From the changes read in patch notes they are removing crit chance from medium armor and replacing it with Crit damage and crit healing which is essentially useless if you have no crit chance to be able to land a critical hit or get a critical heal.

Icy_Waffles

Yeah I couldn’t believe this. Pve end game stam is going to become more and more rare.

jaws343

I saw the changes and thought that 3/3/1 is finally looking fairly decent for Mag and Stam specs in PVP. Lowers the damage taken from stam by wearing more med, but still gaining spell damage and crit damage. And I saw in another thread that it ends up only being like a 1% damage loss for PVE.

prof_doom

Not being ignored. It's definitely been brought up.
It seems to be a nerf, unless you already had a really high crit build.

It's definitely gonna reduce the viability of any non-crit stamina sets, which already weren't very high to begin with.

BattleAxe

jaws343 wrote: »

I saw the changes and thought that 3/3/1 is finally looking fairly decent for Mag and Stam specs in PVP. Lowers the damage taken from stam by wearing more med, but still gaining spell damage and crit damage. And I saw in another thread that it ends up only being like a 1% damage loss for PVE.

Well it amounts to much more than 1% as the besides AY all other pve stam sets are medium.
Deadly medium
Rele medium
Kinras medium
Alkosh medium
Lokke again medium

In other words stam dds are going to be hit extremely hard if this goes live as is

RogueShark

Taking crit chance without even giving us penetration. I already sit at sub 50% crit when I have to run lover in content.
This is ridiculous. Mag already has so many more legs up in PvE.

OlumoGarbag

How on earth is 14% more crit damage dealt and crit healing done a nerf? Just build for more crit. The passive was already pretty weak.
Pve really has too many sources of crit multipliers. Its kind of stupid that pve is crit or go home.

redspecter23

I'm thinking the intention is to push light armor for crit chance and penetration for stam or mag builds, while medium will push raw damage stat and critical damage. This would lead players to gravitate toward one or the other, depending on what they are building for and you shouldn't be tied to an armor weight based on your damage spec (mag or stam). You could mix them if you want some of each. I'm not suggesting that idea is good, bad or anything. It just appears that's what they are going for. In theory, that works fine for crafted gear, but drop gear only comes in one weight so you will have limited options in reality.

In short, if you want crit chance, it appears that you'll be gravitating toward light armor to achieve that goal, assuming the prodigy passive got the same hybrid treatment as everything else.

Nybling

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

How on earth is 14% more crit damage dealt and crit healing done a nerf? Just build for more crit. The passive was already pretty weak.
Pve really has too many sources of crit multipliers. Its kind of stupid that pve is crit or go home.

I think you are missing the point.

Light Armor now gets a ton of penetration and a ton of crit. Medium Armor gets... some crit damage. Yeah, +crit damage is nice, but Medium already has to build around getting physical penetration for PvE content so losing out on the 6-7% or so crit from the passive blows.

BattleAxe

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

How on earth is 14% more crit damage dealt and crit healing done a nerf? Just build for more crit. The passive was already pretty weak.
Pve really has too many sources of crit multipliers. Its kind of stupid that pve is crit or go home.

Yes you can build for more crit but at what trade off plus bonus crit dmg and healing is moot if you can’t land a crit hit or get a crit heal.

BattleAxe

One thing that bothers me big time with this is light armor gets penetration spell damage and crit chance medium had weapon damage and crit chance so why are we removing crit chance instead of perhaps just adding the crit dmg and crit healing onto the passive. That makes more sense so essentially stam builds for penetration while mag builds for crit chance. The idea at least that we were led to believe is choices however by gutting medium armor you are Essentially taking player choice away and it’s pretty much go light and or mag specs or bust. This is final nail for pve stam classes and this goes to further cement a heavy stam tank meta in pvp. @ZOS_GinaBruno i sincerely hope you forward the feedback on these changes directly to the team hastily so they can reconsider certain changes that are being seen as unfavorable.

skinnycheeks

sry to burst your bubble but in many cases it is a buff to medium armor. 14% crit dmg > 7% crit chance for a lot of setups. medium armor and stam is going to be absolutely fine

neferpitou73

So we're going to be seeing some Medium Mech Acuity bombers in PvP now, with increased VD proc damage. Yay...?

DuckFayth

BattleAxe wrote: »

One thing that bothers me big time with this is light armor gets penetration spell damage and crit chance medium had weapon damage and crit chance so why are we removing crit chance instead of perhaps just adding the crit dmg and crit healing onto the passive. That makes more sense so essentially stam builds for penetration while mag builds for crit chance. The idea at least that we were led to believe is choices however by gutting medium armor you are Essentially taking player choice away and it’s pretty much go light and or mag specs or bust. This is final nail for pve stam classes and this goes to further cement a heavy stam tank meta in pvp. @ZOS_GinaBruno i sincerely hope you forward the feedback on these changes directly to the team hastily so they can reconsider certain changes that are being seen as unfavorable.

Light armor does not give spell damage. They added that to medium armor.

Shantu

IMO, this is just more tinkering with stats for the sake of...well...tinkering with stats. While reducing your crit chance, it increases the damage when it does hit. I'm seeing little to no difference in overall parsing dps. Not sure why they wanna do this stuff. Maybe the pay is good.

katorga

The light changes allow stam dps to close the penetration gap.

The medium changes allow mag to close the weapon/spell damage gap.

Not sure about pvp, but it seems like a stamina warden or necro will be able to stack enough spell damage and healing crit to use their magicka heals very effectively, with the Battle spirit and other % mitigation changes covering the loss of armor mitigation from wearing medium.

techprince

Crit dmg/healing is useless if you can't even crit that often.

ArchMikem

BattleAxe wrote: »

From the changes read in patch notes they are removing crit chance from medium armor and replacing it with Crit damage and crit healing which is essentially useless if you have no crit chance to be able to land a critical hit or get a critical heal.

They're taking away even MORE crit chance sources??

Hasn't my Khajiit suffered enough?

Everest_Lionheart

Bahsei + AY on all Stam builds. Who needs medium armor anymore.

BattleAxe

skinnycheeks wrote: »

sry to burst your bubble but in many cases it is a buff to medium armor. 14% crit dmg > 7% crit chance for a lot of setups. medium armor and stam is going to be absolutely fine

Many cases? Maybe the top 1% of players that isn’t many. The main issue is you can stack all the crit damage you want but if you hardly ever or don’t crit at all that crit damage is useless. Further more this just serves to further make stam dps less desirable in 12 man content.

Magicka has access to penetration and now crit chance as well as being able to fight bosses at range.
Stam has raw damage but without penetration to back that up adding to the fact certain trial mechanics become much more difficult due to range majority of stam dps need to be in to deal damage.

There is already multiple sources of bonus crit damage already in game and after last several patches crit chance has been dropped quite a bit.

ANewHand

Nybling wrote: »

I think you are missing the point.

Light Armor now gets a ton of penetration and a ton of crit. Medium Armor gets... some crit damage. Yeah, +crit damage is nice, but Medium already has to build around getting physical penetration for PvE content so losing out on the 6-7% or so crit from the passive blows.

As others have said, you're forgetting medium armor providing up to 14% bonus weapon damage.

If you're sitting at 50% crit chance and 170% crit damage (Minor Force + Minor Brittle), your overall non-proc dps should increase by ~5.2% with the new Medium armor perk. The old perk, in comparison, would only increase your dps by ~3.6% in a similar setting.

The Math:

-Old: (0.57*170 + 0.43*100)/(0.5*170 + 0.5*100) = 1.036

-New: (0.5*184 + 0.5*100)/(0.5*170 + 0.5*100) = 1.052

Of course, because they multiply each other, the optimal dps is reached when you have "even" amounts of Crit Chance and Crit Damage. In other words, getting a lot of one and little of the other won't give you optimal dps.

tsaescishoeshiner

The Crit Damage on Medium Armor makes it look tasty for my Mechanical Acuity mag characters in PvP, but I don't know what impact it'll have on PvE, where many BiS sets drop in 1 weight and don't give hybrid bonuses

Grandchamp1989

This will make it kinda odd in PVE

I wonder if the new meta will be 5 medium armor 2 light pieces from monster
But then again.. Kilt is Medium... And all the Dmg sets PvE stam use are pure Medium..

I'm not sure how we'll balance this out in PvE unless everyone start to go with crafted sets to mix the weights of the sets...

Since mag usually spec for max crit chance anyway (mother's) it would make sense to give them the crit dmg and medium armor the crit chance.

Also at this point they should get away with "Spell dmg physical dmg" and just call it "Damage" because they're merging the two every chance they get anyway.

Same for critical and resistances.

Just look at race traits, passives, and now armor sets...

Lughlongarm

Didn't guides always mentioned that shadow and thief mundus are super extremely close?
I imagined that magicka will go for shadow and medium for theif, and it will be about the same. is this not the case?

Bl4ckR3alm93

Not only did they just Gut medium armor but Dragonknights now will not be used at all for endgame and im a Dragonknight main. I do not pvp as I dont like to but I love all the PVE content. I dont want my solution to be ( jUsT PlaaY mAg sOrCerOr oR oThEr cLaSsEs ) because I love the Dragonknight class. I was a MagDK main for the longest but recently changed to StamDK because MagDK lacks DPS badly in PVE. Now StamDK are gonna be at a bad spot.

They need to separately balance PVE and PVP

Jaimeh

Icy_Waffles wrote: »

Yeah I couldn’t believe this. Pve end game stam is going to become more and more rare.

I wonder if this is their way of stealthily separating mag for pve and stam fof pvp, which is completely against their 'play as you like mentality', but they have been gutting stam PVE specs for 3 updates now. I haven't seriously played my stam DD since Markarth, and no score/achievement-pushing group in end-game is using any stam DDs in their composition. Where is the diversity in that? Even after the pen nerf, I kept hoping things would change, but seems for whatever reason they are systematically obliterating stamina specs in PvE. I would really appreciate an official response why this has been happening @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam?

Wraithlyn

Personally, I don't think this addresses the issue at hand between the two setups of magicka and stamina. Magicka toons will be more preferred with their safety in groups, as well as their ability to have support sets to buff their damage rather than reduce armour (which stam groups need). Magicka groups were able to get away without getting alkosh procs, and also had access to sets like Encratis.
Sure, you can run stamina builds for trials, but why would you? Magicka builds can get more damage out with
These changes will not change this aspect. Magicka will still be preferred for trials as it is easier to build around them.
If anything, this patch seems to be a bigger buff to magicka than stamina, as they now also get more spell damage passively from the changed fighter's guild passives, as well as flawless granting spell damage on hit, too. I feel the disparity here is very questionable.

I feel this change needs to be reconsidered and revert dexterity back to critical chance. I'd also suggest they add in armour penetration to bring it up to parity with light armour, even if it comes at the cost of the weapon damage passive, because to me, it feels like stamina got the short end of the stick.
They either make it so that magicka needs to get armour reduction sets or they add armour penetration for stamina. Unless this changes, the disparity between magicka and stamina dps will forever be skewed.

electriczzz

If the patch drops live as it is , every stamina DD who isn't playing in a perfectly optimized group and doesn't have AY/ leviathan or anything else providing extra crit chance, is going to regret playing stamina, this is absurd and unfair. Magicka can go 5 pieces light and 2 med for extra crit damage + spell damage AND they get fighters guild skills scaling with the next patch. Medium armor just gets sacked and tossed in a garbage bin after this patch because let's be honest here, why bother?
"Just reroll to magicka DD" They have penetration, range, crit chance, can do hybrid builds, can equip the harpooners kilt (which is medium) for extra crit + crit damage and some extra spell damage on top from med armor passives. They can also go dual wield if they enjoy it for extra crit since now that scaled rather good as well and use barbed trap for minor force +3% spell damage buff from Slayer. Where is my mages guild passive for extra stamina as a stam DD? Absolute joke of an update.

RandomKodiak

Check the other thread https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/580783/crit-normalization#latest if you want to see actual 21 mil parses from both live and pts, two of my stamsorc builds. Stam is going to be fine if not slightly better way to early to panic imo.

Styxius

I tested my stamcro which on paper should've seen a dps increase instead I stayed dead even despite the buffs. This makes sense. I didn't notice if this was changed as I may have missed it in the patch notes. I hope they revert this as it is an important feature stamina has had.

electriczzz

RandomKodiak wrote: »

Check the other thread https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/580783/crit-normalization#latest if you want to see actual 21 mil parses from both live and pts, two of my stamsorc builds. Stam is going to be fine if not slightly better way to early to panic imo.

Those are on a trial dummy right? That provides you all the buffs? Exactly. Not everyone plays in perfectly optimized groups, as a stamina damage dealer you're already on the lower end of the picks when it comes to vet content because tanks will have to provide alkosh and / or tremorscale. No I am 100% of the opinion now is the best time to voice our concerns and panic about it. I dont care about some trial dummy parses which provides you the perfect buffs, those don't always apply in actual gameplay. Do some vet dungeons / trials without a perfectly optimized team setup and let me know about those parses from stam DDs.