Redguard Martial Training buff

Castagere

Redguards were never the tanks in TES games. Orcs were and the one hand and shield buff should go to Orcs. Redguards should get a buff for all bladed weapons. It would fit their lore as sword singers.

Ippokrates

You know, Redguard Crusader was my first char in TES Universe, while playing Morrowind in the early 2000s, so i have sentiment. And it is a shame that such OP race has been reduced to a joke. It started in Skyrim and ESO unfortunately continued this tendency.

Well, to be precise, it wasn't totally trashed but... rather scrapped between other races. Orcs got Weapon Power & speed, Bosmers speed too + stamina regen, Argonians took their Disease & Poison resist. Not much left for RG.

TBH I understand that in passive racial system, their powerful adrenaline rush was extremely hard to implement BUT if berserking orcs got +258 wd, there is nothing to keep us from giving the same bonus to RG.

So I would start with switching S&B with Nords and their 2h - it will suit npc stylistic. And roles, as most Nords go for tanking anyway ;p

Then add some additional speed & maybe running costs discount (some people chosing vamp only for this bonus, especially useful in pvp) and maybe BF (instead of 15% snares reduction) or even roll - similar to imperial discounts.

Bonus to stamina is ok but if they do not want to add WD, they should consider adding more than 2k so their stamina skills could hit much harder.

But MAYBE, just MAYBE, instead of Weapon Skills costs reduction they could get some bonus to LA similar to current CP slot star (or maybe this star as a bonus 5th star), so we would have a race that due to their weapon master surpass others in weaving. Of course, only if player is equally skilled

WrathOfInnos

Castagere wrote: »

Redguards were never the tanks in TES games. Orcs were and the one hand and shield buff should go to Orcs. Redguards should get a buff for all bladed weapons. It would fit their lore as sword singers.

This could be interesting. A racial passive that buffs their damage with swords. Would it apply to daggers as well? Would it be strong enough to make Redguard builds with swords compete with other races using whatever is meta (dagger, axe, mace, bow)? They shouldn’t be more powerful than all the other races obviously, but an opportunity to make a unique build with an underpowered weapon type and do the same damage as the current flavor of the month build is tempting.

Kory

Sluggy wrote: »

Personally, when they did the major racial adjustments back during Murkmire I personally felt many of them didn't go far enough. They should be passives that get us absolutely excited about playing a particual race. At the time only the Nord and maybe the Orc actually looked interesting.

Anyway, the snare reduction has always been stupid-looking to me. Even in PvP that directly translates to ZERO snare reduction. Why not take it to something more extreme - like, saaaaaay, 100% snare reduction? And I also agree that the 8% saved on weapon skills pales in comparison to Imperials. Make it more extreme. Either something like 15% for weapons or maybe 8% on all stamina skills. I dunno. Just throwing numbers out there. I've said it before and I'll say it again. This stuff might looked balanced on their formula-based spreadsheets but ZoS needs to actually take live-gameplay and opportunity costs into account before they start putting down final numbers.

Yeah the snare effectiveness "reduction" is specifically useless, especially in pvp where snares do it's job regardless....and it's obsolete when using snare/negative effect removers or immunity items anyway.

Castagere

If ZOS would sit back and read the lore of each race we wouldn't be here. And yes sword singers were masters of all bladed weapons including daggers which were nothing but short swords to them.

WrathOfInnos

Castagere wrote: »

If ZOS would sit back and read the lore of each race we wouldn't be here. And yeas sword singe were masters of all bladed weapons including daggers which were nothing but short swords to them.

Like how Orcs were the slowest race in both Morrowind and Oblivion, but can outrun even the fastest Bosmer in ESO?

Yeah, I’m sure we could do these all day.

Roylund

How about revamping Martial Training to make it offensive rather than having it give unnecessary sustain since Redguards already have Adrenaline Rush.

To reflect the mastery of weapons that Redguards are supposed to have MT would let Redguards have all weapon type passives active at the same time. So if they equip a 2h greatsword they would still get the mace penetration and axe critical damage bonus. An inferno staff would also grab the 8% AoE dmg boost from lightning staves and block bonuses from frost staves. I haven't run the math on how the additional bonuses compare to other 5pc bonuses/racial passives so I don't know just how OP this is but the bonuses could be halved if they're too strong.

Stx

That would be too good. Your racials would then be 2k stam, 400 stam recovery non scaling, 3k penetration AND 284 weapon/ spell damage.

ke.sardenb14_ESO

With the game hybridization become more of a massive factor I think the RG could use something like an increase to crit chance.

Rakdos

Recently I am considering change my redguard to Imperial. I think redguard passive is more for tanks or tanky playstyle in general.

Tourettesin321

Reguards need a serious overall. It's crazy to me that magic based races are better choices for melee and stamina style game play.

StarOfElyon

I still like the idea for 50% increased effectiveness of weapon traits.

MashmalloMan

Ditch the 8% cost reduction to weapons entirely, buff the stamina restore a little to compensate.

Add something useful, but still niche to build around like +258 Weapon/Spell Damage to Direct Damage attacks.

I feel like this change would still allow them to continue being niche, while not being 100% reliant on weapon attacks or being only a sustain race.

It also fits with the theme of the race about being entirely offensive (for sustain and offense) as you also only get the benefits for attacking, which Direct Damage is meant for rather than all damage which would buff Damage Over Time and trump any need for Dark Elf and Orc.

Castagere

I wish they were like this.
https://youtu.be/AN5suLFBT3M

ke.sardenb14_ESO

I think hybridization has really left RG behind, and it is kinda sad

Hotdog_23

Really hope they look at all the races bonus with hybridization now more of a thing. Tweak here and there would be a good thing. Hope it on the list of things to do but they just didn’t have the time to do it this time around.

Stay safe and enjoy the journey

Faulgor

Ippokrates wrote: »

You know, Redguard Crusader was my first char in TES Universe, while playing Morrowind in the early 2000s, so i have sentiment. And it is a shame that such OP race has been reduced to a joke. It started in Skyrim and ESO unfortunately continued this tendency.

It especially hurts that my Redguard is a Templar, probably the class that uses the least amount of weapon skills ...
Thanks for saving me 8% cost on Endless Hail, I guess?

Ippokrates

Faulgor wrote: »

Ippokrates wrote: »

You know, Redguard Crusader was my first char in TES Universe, while playing Morrowind in the early 2000s, so i have sentiment. And it is a shame that such OP race has been reduced to a joke. It started in Skyrim and ESO unfortunately continued this tendency.

It especially hurts that my Redguard is a Templar, probably the class that uses the least amount of weapon skills ...
Thanks for saving me 8% cost on Endless Hail, I guess?

Well, for solo you can also use brawler for shield & aoe, also stampede & rally so it could be helpful too, but that's about it. For dual wield used stricly for team play dps, Redguard passives are useless.

TBH i have Redguard DK tank on EU & Redguard Stamsorc on NA and i really like them - i have no issues with sustain, but sometimes it gets me wonder, how we ended with Altmers & Bosmers being better and more aggresive warrior races than Redguard? XD

Castagere

I swear it's like the Devs just hated Redguards and made them weak.

Casul

I feel like redguard on stamdk is a decent option just because the direct damage from hardened armors spike damage can proc adrenaline rush. Feels a lot more consistent. Now of course that only matters in pvp since a dps stamdk won't be running an armor buff.

Even then I feel myself rocking back and forth on if there may be a better option (such as orc or khajiit) especially given the power of some proc sets.

Extinct_Solo_Player

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Ditch the 8% cost reduction to weapons entirely, buff the stamina restore a little to compensate.

Add something useful, but still niche to build around like +258 Weapon/Spell Damage to Direct Damage attacks.

I feel like this change would still allow them to continue being niche, while not being 100% reliant on weapon attacks or being only a sustain race.

It also fits with the theme of the race about being entirely offensive (for sustain and offense) as you also only get the benefits for attacking, which Direct Damage is meant for rather than all damage which would buff Damage Over Time and trump any need for Dark Elf and Orc.

Instead of slightly increasing the stamina restore they could slightly decrease the cooldown by 1-2 seconds and it would really make the passive shine. The reduced weapon abilities cost is pretty ok but the snare reduction is the biggest culprit which could be removed for something along the lines of increase damage with martial attacks by x% or just a flat value. But who are we kidding anyways, nothing will be changed until next years chapter and that's being optimistic lol.

StarOfElyon

I can't remember if it's been suggested already but maybe it would be nice if Redgaurds got a 5% damage done bonus.

Kory

Castagere wrote: »

I swear it's like the Devs just hated Redguards and made them weak.

According to some players they were a strong warrior class to play a couple years ago. That's long gone now.

Stx

Kory wrote: »

Castagere wrote: »

I swear it's like the Devs just hated Redguards and made them weak.

According to some players they were a strong warrior class to play a couple years ago. That's long gone now.

They were a popular race choice because sustain used to be harder to get. Now that you can get all the sustain you need basically from food and group buffs, sustain races are pointless for group pve. For soloing difficult pve content or pvp redguard probably wouldn't be terrible but it's still less useful due to the niche of needing to use a lot of weapon skills.

milllaurie

Stx wrote: »

Kory wrote: »

Castagere wrote: »

I swear it's like the Devs just hated Redguards and made them weak.

According to some players they were a strong warrior class to play a couple years ago. That's long gone now.

They were a popular race choice because sustain used to be harder to get. Now that you can get all the sustain you need basically from food and group buffs, sustain races are pointless for group pve. For soloing difficult pve content or pvp redguard probably wouldn't be terrible but it's still less useful due to the niche of needing to use a lot of weapon skills.

The only (yes only we theorycraft a lot here) pvp build that is somewhat viable on a stamsorc is a redguard stamsorc running battlefield acrobat acrobat, daring corsair and bloodspawn/magma. Can run basically zero sustain and go full damage and onslaught left and right. It can have masters/blackrose dw backbar if you feel particularly nasty.
This build was made by my brother @landsbergis.
That's about it for builds that "suit like a glove".

ke.sardenb14_ESO

@BuildMan
RG is a superb sustain race for any class/role that
1) relies on stamina
2) relies on weapon skill
3) relies on damage overtime
All of which is true for StamDK and DK tanks.

ke.sardenb14_ESO

Considering there are no other race options that provide crit chance, I don't see why they can't get a bonus there?

StarOfElyon

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I can't remember if it's been suggested already but maybe it would be nice if Redgaurds got a 5% damage done bonus.

Another idea: how about a boost to weapon passives (not traits)?

ke.sardenb14_ESO

StarOfElyon wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I can't remember if it's been suggested already but maybe it would be nice if Redgaurds got a 5% damage done bonus.

Another idea: how about a boost to weapon passives (not traits)?

I like it, a boost to skill traits would not shoe horn you into using weapon spammables on a class that has strong one.