Very disappointed in no proc / no CP decision

Starshadw

I have to confess, I'm very disappointed at the decision to lump no proc in with the no CP campaign. At the very least, I'd like to request you also give us a no proc campaign with CP. I'm not even sure why someone would think the best way to implement no proc would be to simply add it in to the no CP campaign.

Alucardo

It's a good decision imho. It means newer or returning players with very low CP can have a good time pvping without worrying about overpowered proc sets. It makes sense to me.

Tommy_The_Gun

As far as I can tell they stated on live stream that they will add some sets to the list available to use in no-proc campaign. So I would imagine we will have some form of build diversity. My guess is that they will just not allow for dmg dealing & healing sets and other sets that have condition check will work.

JamieAubrey

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

As far as I can tell they stated on live stream that they will add some sets to the list available to use in no-proc campaign. So I would imagine we will have some form of build diversity. My guess is that they will just not allow for dmg dealing & healing sets and other sets that have condition check will work.

I'll just go back to my No Proc set I used before, as long as I can use Wild Hunt Ring, Prisoner's and Coward's gear to Run Scrolls back I'm happy

vesselwiththepestle

Source???

Edit: Found it. Recent Twitch about Waking Flame, roughly 1 hour 6 minutes.

No cp, no proc, no Volendrung. Many more sets will be considered "no proc" than during the test. Well, I guess we'll see on Monday what that means exactly?

Ackwalan

Is ZOS going to be straight about what is a proc and what isn't? Or are going to guess based on how a comma is placed in the item description.

colossalvoids

Ackwalan wrote: »

Is ZOS going to be straight about what is a proc and what isn't? Or are going to guess based on how a comma is placed in the item description.

Current no proc is based on how calculations was set so it depends if they're completely recoding old ones or just be removing "harmful proc sets" as no proc wasn't that much a performance gain to begin with.

Sluggy

Shoot. I'm disappointed that CP still exists in PvP at all. I guess that's the nature of compromise. Nobody is happy.

MrMazurski

Ackwalan wrote: »

Is ZOS going to be straight about what is a proc and what isn't? Or are going to guess based on how a comma is placed in the item description.

Well. What do you need this for? You will have to guess for every set that does not give a flat 5th place.

Alucardo wrote: »

It's a good decision imho. It means newer or returning players with very low CP can have a good time pvping without worrying about overpowered proc sets. It makes sense to me.

I agree. I don't like sets that give extra damage from heaven myself. It's like pet classes to me. Anything else to do if everything else does something for you. Just seat and watch for your free dmg

Thraben

Alucardo wrote: »

It's a good decision imho. It means newer or returning players with very low CP can have a good time pvping without worrying about overpowered proc sets. It makes sense to me.

To give an example:

A new player joined our guild, and asked what he would need to be useful in group combat. I told him this and that ... and a week later had had spent more than a million gold for that! And we don't even speak of the time investment mythic items and the newest dlc stuff require.
We vets take so much for granted which really isn't.


We shouldn't build barriers for new players. A NoProc NoCP cyrodiil campaign with a healthy playerbase helps a lot in this regard.

blktauna

I live in NoCP and I prefer my procs thx. The last thing I want is to be forced into the sweaty lagfest that is CP. NoCP right now is bad enough ( and please don't try to blame procs... we all know it isn't them) but I can still have a chance and still get some good fights. It was horrendous during that no proc debacle with the same people running the same broken [snip] and it was zero fun for a good chunk of us.

Do a CP and a no CP set with proc and no proc for each. Not brain surgery.
[edited for profanity bypass]

neferpitou73

“Play with the way you want! Unless you play no-CP, then screw you!”

Kinmont

There's a lot of discussion going on among long-term no-CP guilds and players on my faction at any rate. If there is a largescale migration out and into CP, then I am not sure if that campaign will cope - the queues will become longer, the strain with all the ball groups migrating etc will increase.
As others have said, if you want a no proc no CP campaign, make one, but don't take away from the established RW playerbase. This potentially does irrepairable damage to the community within the campaign, it refutes the statements in recent promotions of the game, and it reduces trust. PvP guilds have a much harder time with their membership base when these changes come on (people quitting, or wasting gold and gametime to get items which suddenly become redundant on what is perceived as a whim or without evidence that performance will improve) - something that pve guilds don't have to deal with. Have no proc, no hammer, no CP but make it another campaign. And give us faction lock back in no CP so those that care about encouraging players into pvp and about their faction's status don't have to deal with those who bounce around factions and then spend their time trolling in zonechat or with the scrolls.

robo26

As other's have said the change to no proc on the no cp server does go against the marketing phrase "Play how you want"!

No-Cp, No-proc, no hammer = new server surely?

Kinmont wrote: »

And give us faction lock back in no CP so those that care about encouraging players into pvp and about their faction's status don't have to deal with those who bounce around factions and then spend their time trolling in zone chat or with the scrolls.

Yes please, a faction lock would do the server a lot of good and help encourage faction support and everyone fighting for the same goal rather than chasing the faction with the highest points.

If RavenWatch (or whatever ZOS will call it in the future) does go no-proc, no-hammer I can see an exodus to Greyhost. This will result in long queues on Greyhost and a big increase in the lag. Whilst Ravenwatch would only have the diehard no-cp fans left.

Carolineu

If the changes are made to Ravenwatch I will probably move to another campaign. I wished we had faction locking and would think about staying if they added that. I realise they want to fix the awful lag and queueing issues and the 'treakle' everytime one particular ball group is around.
To take away my gold sets, and change so much, to in fact, try to force a type of play on me feels like this isn't the ESO I signed up for 5 years ago. I already had to move campaign once because of issues in another campaign. I really don't want to be pushed around like this.
Faction locking would solve quite a few of the issues already there - what is the rationale for not putting a faction lock on?

neferpitou73

As far as I know one DC ball group is moving and mine is strongly considering it. If our guild moves DC will be dead on Ravenwatch

“No-CP! No-procs! No players!”

MrMazurski

neferpitou73 wrote: »

As far as I know one DC ball group is moving and mine is strongly considering it. If our guild moves DC will be dead on Ravenwatch

“No-CP! No-procs! No players!”

Sorry, but this is sowing more questionable news. DC doesn't stand by one guild (or a few flashy players on the forum) as well as EP and AD. (weird what?) There is also a lot of information where a large part of the playerbase supports no proc.

so your "propaganda" slogan has no factual reference whatsoever. Plus, forget that your big fancy exodus will attract other players who don't like pvp with procs sets. Yes, they exist

RaikaNA

neferpitou73 wrote: »

As far as I know one DC ball group is moving and mine is strongly considering it. If our guild moves DC will be dead on Ravenwatch

“No-CP! No-procs! No players!”

I'm not a big fan of no proc in the no-cp campaign, but damn. I hate ball groups with a passion. Last night in Ravenwatch (PC/NA server) DC was faction stacking... had 2 ball groups up...must have been 40 DC trying to take a single keep.. I couldn't keep up with how many negates were being thrown down, and how many times I got stunned before getting instantly killed without having the chance of activating a single skill. I'm glad that one DC ball group is moving.. don't let the door hit you on your way out. I rather sacrifice my proc sets rather than putting up with ultimate stacking ball groups.

blktauna

Yes please on the Faction Lock in No CP. That's an aside but Gods yes we need faction lock because the faction hopping trolls make it not fun.

olsborg

Alucardo wrote: »

It's a good decision imho. It means newer or returning players with very low CP can have a good time pvping without worrying about overpowered proc sets. It makes sense to me.

While it also makes sense to me, for that very reason, I would also like a noprocc cp campaign, that might get me playing again.

Fidget1302

robo26 wrote: »

As other's have said the change to no proc on the no cp server does go against the marketing phrase "Play how you want"!

No-Cp, No-proc, no hammer = new server surely?

Kinmont wrote: »

And give us faction lock back in no CP so those that care about encouraging players into pvp and about their faction's status don't have to deal with those who bounce around factions and then spend their time trolling in zone chat or with the scrolls.

Yes please, a faction lock would do the server a lot of good and help encourage faction support and everyone fighting for the same goal rather than chasing the faction with the highest points.

If RavenWatch (or whatever ZOS will call it in the future) does go no-proc, no-hammer I can see an exodus to Greyhost. This will result in long queues on Greyhost and a big increase in the lag. Whilst Ravenwatch would only have the diehard no-cp fans left.

None of the ball groups, guilds, or hardcore No CP PvP players will migrate to Gray Host. They will migrate to Blackreach. That campaign will finally be competitive again. Blackreach is dead most of the time these days, so the influx from the no cp campaign will be a boost.

TragedyOA

so what sets can we use in ravenwatch after the update?

Long_Distance

There's a list in the patch notes.

blktauna

Why are they destroying our campaign to pump up Blackreach?

gameswithaspoon

Ravenwatch was locking and running ques during noproc last winter. And we didn't lock last night-on the busiest night of the week. Granted some population has bled off to New World, but the proc set meta does have some bearing to the reduced populations in Cyrodiil, especially in newer players who come in to nonCP and the first thing they run into is a ballgroup. After all, people played Azura's Star without these fancy DLC sets. And spending an evening in that campaign was definitely more fun than anything so far this summer.

the1andonlyskwex

Thraben wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

It's a good decision imho. It means newer or returning players with very low CP can have a good time pvping without worrying about overpowered proc sets. It makes sense to me.

To give an example:

A new player joined our guild, and asked what he would need to be useful in group combat. I told him this and that ... and a week later had had spent more than a million gold for that! And we don't even speak of the time investment mythic items and the newest dlc stuff require.
We vets take so much for granted which really isn't.


We shouldn't build barriers for new players. A NoProc NoCP cyrodiil campaign with a healthy playerbase helps a lot in this regard.

On the other hand, isn't the disabling of 90% of the sets in the game a barrier in itself?

It's one thing to go into PvP with unoptimized gear, and a whole other (worse) thing to go into PvP only to discover that the gear you have doesn't even work.

Once this change comes out, there won't be any PvP campaign that's appropriate for low 50s who don't use outside sources (like other players or online guides) to know what sets are actually usable. (Heck, you could even still screw it up with outside sources, if those sources are outdated or designed for the other campaigns.)

FolksySpade

If this is coming in the near future you can count me in. I stopped playing mostly because of the return of procs to cyrodiil, otherwise I love noCP and the idea of having no win more hammer bs impacting the map flow

ResidentContrarian

Is anyone going to even play the campaign, when no-proc is not even balanced.

The classes aren't balanced
Siege isn't balanced
Even the set list isn't balanced...

Doesn't make any sense to me, but hey...If the balance tilts toward you, it will be a great experience and power fantasy at least...

blktauna

I don't like playing in CP and I'm not fond of no proc so I might have to stop pvp and that makes me sad. I still don't understand why they want to nuke our current campaign when its easy enough for them to just spin up a separate instance that doesn't displace us and satisfies the vocal minority that wants no proc. Then when they get bored and leave they can do whatever with the instance all the while not disrupting us in Ravenwatch.

Hardhit

Introducing No-Proc into a campaign is a bad solution to the wrong problem. The dev focus should be on reducing lag and ensuring smooth game-play regardless of campaign.

The server/programming can't handle Gray Host at current population for current builds and add-ons when ball groups play and current population limits create unbearable queue times during prime-time play time.

A starting point is to re-balance server populations. ESO desperately needs more faction locked campaigns. Three faction locked campaigns would be ideal but a starting point would be to make at least one other campaign besides Gray Host Faction Locked.

An interesting test experiment would be to disable all add-ons in Gray Host as many speculate that add-ons are resulting in the majority of lag issues. (Even better would be to isolate the most offensive add-ons and disable the problem at the source - ie. create a global cool-down for add-on server pings in PVP zones).

Clearly, there is abundant interest in preserving a No-CP campaign but the players of No-CP should not be forced into a No-Proc environment. If devs are insistent on introducing No-Proc for the benefit of new players, create a separate campaign - the new equivalent of a <50 campaign. My advice - Faction Lock Blackreach, Keep Ravenwatch No-CP, and test full removal of add-ons in Gray Host with double AP bonus for a set time period. No-Proc isn't the answer to the right question.

If the devs are heart-set on Ravenwatch No-Proc, No-CP, do everyone a favor and at least faction lock it. That might at least limit the initial exodus.

Hardhit
Heroes of the Pact (HOTP) Guild General

And yes, before anyone asks, HOTP continues to recruit high-quality members who love high-level PVP and PVE game-play.

red_emu

It is a shame that ESO went from "play how you want" to "play how the vocal minority wants you to"