Shadow Cloak vs Mist Form vs Streak

Fried_Fowl

Vevvev wrote: »

Fried_Fowl wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

It is pretty strong against ball groups since you get max healing out of it, but that's my only use for it though and as a result I have gone Elusive Mist since it's better in most situations.

The only part where its good against ball groups is to avoid the damage passing through but if they focus you by sitting on top of you for a few seconds then you will not live very long at all.

Only times I've died fighting a ball group with blood mist active was when they dropped a negate on me. Learn to stick with the blob and it'll keep you alive even while focus fired. Also add in randomized movements and in the chaos they'll miss you further increasing survivability.

If that works for you then great but what works for me when fighting ball groups is to either walk away from their pathing with Mist Form or go right through them and to further expand on a situation where you go right through them is when they are inside a outpost your alliance owns with the door repaired and they are coming up or down the stairs or any narrow pathway you are in you just hit mist and go against the grain to pass them as fast as possible because staying with the blob meaning the ball group or your allies is a bad idea (whichever you meant by saying to stick with the blob) in my opinion because if you are with your allies you can die from Vicious Death damage with Mist Form up or not if they Negate the group among all the other AoE damage and if you meant the blob by sticking close to the ball group well that's just asking to die and with my strategy you only die if they decide to focus you out of everyone there and your in a small space or if Mist Form fails to fire off due to Cyrodiil lag and with that you never die as long as you know how ball groups move around like back and forth or circles and drop downs from above etc.

DrSlaughtr

Fried_Fowl wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Fried_Fowl wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Fried_Fowl wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

So you found a video showing a NB brawler killing obviously lesser skilled players. What does that have to do mist?

I agree that they are lesser skilled players...

And that's where this conversation ends.

No the conversation did not end because...

No, that was the end of your argument. Player skill was the determinate factor there.

There was no skill all the Nightblade did was spam Shadow Image throughout the fight and used Shadow Cloak to recover Stamina and Health to reset the fight and the Youtuber even said he was resetting the fight many times despite the players spamming AoE and Detection on him the entire time [snip] and it proves the bias in this thread by pointing out in the video I posted that the players in the video were indeed using and spamming detection and AoE the entire time and even though I said earlier that I agreed about the pursuing players skill level with TheEndBringer it was just to see if someone would speak without bias and correct me about the players not using detection or AoE which did not happen and proved my little test about bias in this thread.

[edited for baiting]

The video in question doesn't show a gank. The dude has 28k health and at least one defensive set. He's built around the spectral bow, which is why he's mostly doing light and heavy attacks. His vigor is super buffed so one hit is enough to counter the crappy damage the attackers are doing, and that's the whole point. He uses stealth when the attackers start to overwhelm him.

I see a group of unexperienced players running into a NB brawler that they weren't prepared for. I have no reason to think they're spamming detect because he's only going stealth every once in awhile. He isn't constantly hitting it to get away so he can refill his resources. THAT'S resetting a fight. He was using stealth when his stamina was getting low, preventing him from roll dodging. WHICH, by the way, is EXACTLY what mist form is best at. You see an enemy about to drop a burst combo on you? Mist form. Let them eat away at their resources.

So, as I said earlier, if you think mist form should have added effects, make the case, but the "these skills do this so my skill should too" argument has never worked.

starkerealm

TheEndBringer wrote: »

So, as I said earlier, if you think mist form should have added effects, make the case, but the "these skills do this so my skill should too" argument has never worked.

Here's one, although slightly obliquely, Vampire should have a synergistic slotting perk. Possibly a scaling version of Supernatural Recovery, but tied to slotted Vampire skills this time. This isn't so much a failing for Mist Form, and more that the buff is really underwhelming. The entire cost discount system pushes you towards a full (or close to full) vampire bar, but there's no reward for actually doing so. Would people slot Mesmerize for +2% Stam and Mag recovery? Probably not, but it would be a nice perk for those times when we did pull it out.

starkerealm

Fried_Fowl wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Fried_Fowl wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Fried_Fowl wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

So you found a video showing a NB brawler killing obviously lesser skilled players. What does that have to do mist?

I agree that they are lesser skilled players...

And that's where this conversation ends.

No the conversation did not end because...

No, that was the end of your argument. Player skill was the determinate factor there.

There was no skill all the Nightblade did was...

Demonstrate quite a bit of skill.

Yeah, I haven't watched that video in ages, and Kristofer isn't a PvPer I actually enjoy watching.

Here's the thing, you cannot build for 1vX. Doesn't matter your class or your gear, you cannot build to be a 1vXer. That is entirely a skill threshold. Someone with a build like that is taking a major risk that they won't encounter any players who are even remotely skilled, because it will end them.

Fried_Fowl wrote: »

...and proved my little test about bias in this thread.

You haven't proved anything here. All you've done is repeatedly, and vocally, called for the destruction of a class you don't understand. You could watch Kristofer's video, roll a nightblade, take it into Cyrodiil, learn how it plays, understand how the tools you're talking about really work, and then get back to obliterating inexperienced Nightblades when you encounter them. But, you don't want to do that.

While, everyone who has done that is telling you, "nah, it's fine, you can manage this."

Fried_Fowl

TheEndBringer wrote: »

The video in question doesn't show a gank. The dude has 28k health and at least one defensive set. He's built around the spectral bow, which is why he's mostly doing light and heavy attacks. His vigor is super buffed so one hit is enough to counter the crappy damage the attackers are doing, and that's the whole point. He uses stealth when the attackers start to overwhelm him.

Yep he uses stealth when attackers start to overwhelm him, that sounds like he reset the fight till it was in his favor to me and even the youtuber says so a few times that the Nightblade reset the fight, so thanks for proving my point! and the rest just sounds like excuses to try and defend skills that need an adjustment like Shadow Cloak, Shadow Image and Bolt Escape!

TheEndBringer wrote: »

I see a group of unexperienced players running into a NB brawler that they weren't prepared for. I have no reason to think they're spamming detect because he's only going stealth every once in awhile. He isn't constantly hitting it to get away so he can refill his resources. THAT'S resetting a fight. He was using stealth when his stamina was getting low, preventing him from roll dodging. WHICH, by the way, is EXACTLY what mist form is best at. You see an enemy about to drop a burst combo on you? Mist form. Let them eat away at their resources.

Well first off they were prepared because in the video they were using AoE and Stealth Detection a lot and the youtuber even says so during the fight with his own words saying "the enemy players throwing AoE everywhere" starting at 17:13 into the video and then says "but still popped out by the stealth detect" a few seconds after that so please fact check before posting false information.
Here is video timestamp showing him saying the players were using a lot of AoE and stealth detect proving they were prepared: (don't forget he also says the Nightblade was resetting the fight a few times as well)

https://youtu.be/yzOxZIFkMwk?t=1033

TheEndBringer wrote: »

So, as I said earlier, if you think mist form should have added effects, make the case, but the "these skills do this so my skill should too" argument has never worked.

I'm pointing out that Shadow Cloak, Shadow Image and Bolt Escape are overpowered and need adjustment.

DrSlaughtr

Fried_Fowl wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

The video in question doesn't show a gank. The dude has 28k health and at least one defensive set. He's built around the spectral bow, which is why he's mostly doing light and heavy attacks. His vigor is super buffed so one hit is enough to counter the crappy damage the attackers are doing, and that's the whole point. He uses stealth when the attackers start to overwhelm him.

Yep he uses stealth when attackers start to overwhelm him, that sounds like he reset the fight till it was in his favor to me and even the youtuber says so a few times that the Nightblade reset the fight, so thanks for proving my point! and the rest just sounds like excuses to try and defend skills that need an adjustment like Shadow Cloak, Shadow Image and Bolt Escape!

TheEndBringer wrote: »

I see a group of unexperienced players running into a NB brawler that they weren't prepared for. I have no reason to think they're spamming detect because he's only going stealth every once in awhile. He isn't constantly hitting it to get away so he can refill his resources. THAT'S resetting a fight. He was using stealth when his stamina was getting low, preventing him from roll dodging. WHICH, by the way, is EXACTLY what mist form is best at. You see an enemy about to drop a burst combo on you? Mist form. Let them eat away at their resources.

Well first off they were prepared because in the video they were using AoE and Stealth Detection a lot and the youtuber even says so during the fight with his own words saying "the enemy players throwing AoE everywhere" starting at 17:13 into the video and then says "but still popped out by the stealth detect" a few seconds after that so please fact check before posting false information.
Here is video timestamp showing him saying the players were using a lot of AoE and stealth detect proving they were prepared: (don't forget he also says the Nightblade was resetting the fight a few times as well)

https://youtu.be/yzOxZIFkMwk?t=1033

TheEndBringer wrote: »

So, as I said earlier, if you think mist form should have added effects, make the case, but the "these skills do this so my skill should too" argument has never worked.

I'm pointing out that Shadow Cloak, Shadow Image and Bolt Escape are overpowered and need adjustment.

As I said, make an actual case for mist, not complain about others.

You do realize the person narrating the video isn't the actual player, right? I watched the video. I can see exactly what the NB is doing. I can see exactly what the enemies are doing.

They're throwing bad AOEs which he just avoids. You know why? Because he's running evasion. They aren't doing anything. All they're doing is wasting resources throwing out AOEs. More skilled players would see they're having no effect and abandon that. What they should have done is focused him with direct damage.

This player is built to kite in IC. He has a huge health pool for a NB, is either running wild hunt or swift because he's very fast. He clearly knows the environment really well. The opponents are not fighting him optimally.

If not for all those things he'd be dead.

Come up with a new mist form effect and post it. Because honestly all I see from you is sour grapes because you can't infinitely mist. It's currently the single best damage mitigation skill in the game if you use it right.

Fried_Fowl

TheEndBringer wrote: »

As I said, make an actual case for mist, not complain about others.

The case is how the escape skills in the game compare to each other and Shadow Cloak, Shadow Image and Bolt Escape are overpowered.

TheEndBringer wrote: »

You do realize the person narrating the video isn't the actual player, right? I watched the video. I can see exactly what the NB is doing. I can see exactly what the enemies are doing.

The actual player gave his footage to the narrator because he is really good at narrating fights and calling out what is happening most of the time.

TheEndBringer wrote: »

They're throwing bad AOEs which he just avoids. You know why? Because he's running evasion. They aren't doing anything. All they're doing is wasting resources throwing out AOEs. More skilled players would see they're having no effect and abandon that. What they should have done is focused him with direct damage.

That proves my point about any AoE really like I said earlier that Nightblades can just out run and evade Magelight or things Like Razor Caltrops like someone suggested earlier by referring to them as legos and not even the increased meters buff to detection skills in the PTS right now is enough to counter Nightblades and the skills Shadow Cloak and Shadow Image are just too overpowered and need to be adjusted like Mist Form was to be fair and they were doing direct damage as well so look again.

TheEndBringer wrote: »

This player is built to kite in IC. He has a huge health pool for a NB, is either running wild hunt or swift because he's very fast. He clearly knows the environment really well. The opponents are not fighting him optimally.

29,2k HP is not a huge health pool as 30kish HP is a standard health pool for most PvP builds if you use Tri-Stat enchants on your armor with 3k-5kish health from food and why should his opponents have to try for so long trying to kill him because he has overpowered skills like Shadow Cloak and Shadow Image that allow him to kite large groups forever without any counter play? because as long as he don't get greedy and overextend he's never gonna die.

TheEndBringer wrote: »

If not for all those things he'd be dead.

If not for overpowered skills like Shadow Cloak and Shadow Image he would be dead.

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Come up with a new mist form effect and post it. Because honestly all I see from you is sour grapes because you can't infinitely mist. It's currently the single best damage mitigation skill in the game if you use it right.

I play every class including Nightblade and have no sour grapes, but for playing the class you can even feel like what you are doing is overpowered when doing the Shadow Cloak and Shadow Image combo and that's how I know it needs to be adjusted like Mist Form was or something to that effect so that the playing field is fair.

DrSlaughtr

Everything you just said shows you do not understand nightblades. I'm exiting this conversation.

Sephyr

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Everything you just said shows you do not understand nightblades. I'm exiting this conversation.

That's the unfortunate part that I've been finding in the forum lately. When people are countered with hard facts, they refuse to look at the documentation to realize errors and instead rely on anecdotal evidence that isn't necessarily based on true experience, rather instead it's on their biases against something because they will it so. Good conversations about stealth mechanics are a rarity these days.

starkerealm

Fried_Fowl wrote: »

I play every class including Nightblade...

No, you don't. Because if you honestly thought Cloak and Image were as powerful as you claim, you'd be maining a Nightblade. If Bolt was really as powerful as you claimed, you'd be maining a sorc.

You did try them, and they didn't work for you. So, now you're demanding nerfs because if you can't make them work, no one should.

Psiion

Greetings all,

Seeing as this thread has run its course and has derailed into non-constructive Baiting, we have gone ahead and closed it down. While we understand everyone has opinions they would like to express, we ask that all posts stay respectful and within the ESO Forum's Community Rules.