Why was WW made so broken?

P4RM3S4N

About 2 years ago, werewolf was already considered to be broken in that all you had to do was light attack people and you would end up killing the majority of players 1 on 1. For whatever reason, it was buffed, and not just a little. I have 32k resist in pvp, and I get hit for 7k+ by the spammable, along with 8 billion stacks of dots. I watched a couple vids of people's WW builds to see what's going on with it, these guys were all resist sets with no damage boosting sets, have 50k resists, like 3k recovery, and still have 14k+25% spammables and 20k burst heals. This is ridiculous. I would understand this if WW wore off as quickly as the necro transformation, as it's an ult and ults are supposed to do damage. However, this is basically just another build, people stay WW literally forever.

Lughlongarm

WW popularity this patch is extremely low. From what I have experienced its meha at best.

Fawn4287

They aren’t what they used to be they are just tanks with a bit more damage and utility than the average perm block build. Its usually just the 1 bar potato zergling build that turns someone who is borderline useless in to an annoyance.

P4RM3S4N

I have yet to go in pvp and not see werewolves

Lughlongarm

P4RM3S4N wrote: »

I have yet to go in pvp and not see werewolves

IDK, I rarely see them. My experiences more involve around seeing the necro ulti form and the vamp lord form.

P4RM3S4N

Lughlongarm wrote: »

P4RM3S4N wrote: »

I have yet to go in pvp and not see werewolves

IDK, I rarely see them. My experiences more involve around seeing the necro ulti form and the vamp lord form.

Because those ults don't require you to build around them, they are just ults, the werewolf ult IS a build in itself. You're obviously going to see more of those.

Fawn4287 wrote: »

They aren’t what they used to be they are just tanks with a bit more damage and utility than the average perm block build. Its usually just the 1 bar potato zergling build that turns someone who is borderline useless in to an annoyance.

I highly disagree, they do way more damage than they used to, and they used to not really be able to heal, now they have no problem healing back to full with a single button press.

geonsocal

i got a few toons who either have lots of roots or deal a good bit of poison damage, and or use some fighter's guild skills...i don't mind so much when people transform...

you just have to block, roll dodge and poison them to death...granted, there are really good players whom play as werewolf - chances are good though they'd probably kill most of us if they were fighting naked though...

P4RM3S4N

geonsocal wrote: »

i got a few toons who either have lots of roots or deal a good bit of poison damage, and or use some fighter's guild skills...i don't mind so much when people transform...

you just have to block, roll dodge and poison them to death...granted, there are really good players whom play as werewolf - chances are good though they'd probably kill most of us if they were fighting naked though...

Block what? Roll dodge what? If you're suggesting I block/roll dodge every spammable, that would lead to me dying much faster than kiting/healing and applying pressure, you can't just waste all your stamina and expect them to eventually stop attacking you. I'm sure poison damage is great if you're a DK dot build but not everyone plays that. Their weakness to poison isn't really a good reason for them to have the insane damage that they have.

Chrlynsch

Really werewolf has been nerfed pretty hard over the last year. Lots of indirect nerfs and a few werewolf specific nerfs.

They change to their armor buff makes it so stacking armor isn't as easy, they traded their 10k armor buff for the 6kish granted by major resolve that they got in its place. This means werewolves can no longer gain a lot resistance of by pairing it with a set like Chudan, or gaining the additional buff from say a warden.

Health regen was also completely gutted for pvp, Werewolves have been using sets to help provide them with a source of healing over time. Allesian Order was the major culprit, but zos not only nerfed ww Armor but also health regen in pvp. Killing part of the trollish werewolf playstyle.

Heavy armor has also taken a heavy hit, werewolves in pvp have used heavy armor for a lonnnng time due to the magicka sustain, increased health, and increased healing received, these now come at a pretty high cost, with increased roll cost and slower sprint speeds.

Personally I would prefer to see their heal changed to a HOT and scale it off of Max Stamina & Weapon damage. This would help remove more of the troll werewolf playstyles.

Human builds can build survival and damage though stacking their stam/weapon damage or Magicka/ Spell Damage, Werewolves can not.

The only real benefit that werewolf has gained recently is their ability to use damage proc sets, this comes from their bonus to stamina and Weapon damage.

P4RM3S4N

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Really werewolf has been nerfed pretty hard over the last year. Lots of indirect nerfs and a few werewolf specific nerfs.

They change to their armor buff makes it so stacking armor isn't as easy, they traded their 10k armor buff for the 6kish granted by major resolve that they got in its place. This means werewolves can no longer gain a lot resistance of by pairing it with a set like Chudan, or gaining the additional buff from say a warden.

Health regen was also completely gutted for pvp, Werewolves have been using sets to help provide them with a source of healing over time. Allesian Order was the major culprit, but zos not only nerfed ww Armor but also health regen in pvp. Killing part of the trollish werewolf playstyle.

Heavy armor has also taken a heavy hit, werewolves in pvp have used heavy armor for a lonnnng time due to the magicka sustain, increased health, and increased healing received, these now come at a pretty high cost, with increased roll cost and slower sprint speeds.

Personally I would prefer to see their heal changed to a HOT and scale it off of Max Stamina & Weapon damage. This would help remove more of the troll werewolf playstyles.

Human builds can build survival and damage though stacking their stam/weapon damage or Magicka/ Spell Damage, Werewolves can not.

The only real benefit that werewolf has gained recently is their ability to use damage proc sets, this comes from their bonus to stamina and Weapon damage.

I can agree that the heal becoming a HoT would take them down quite a bit. I'm not really speaking of recent changes either by the way I'm looking at where they were about 2 years ago basically just being OP light attack builds that couldn't really heal themselves but put out enough pressure that it was hard to pressure them back and now being able to kill a capped resist player in 2 or 3 hits while healing from 25% to full with a single button press and still having 50k resist.

Chrlynsch

P4RM3S4N wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Really werewolf has been nerfed pretty hard over the last year. Lots of indirect nerfs and a few werewolf specific nerfs.

They change to their armor buff makes it so stacking armor isn't as easy, they traded their 10k armor buff for the 6kish granted by major resolve that they got in its place. This means werewolves can no longer gain a lot resistance of by pairing it with a set like Chudan, or gaining the additional buff from say a warden.

Health regen was also completely gutted for pvp, Werewolves have been using sets to help provide them with a source of healing over time. Allesian Order was the major culprit, but zos not only nerfed ww Armor but also health regen in pvp. Killing part of the trollish werewolf playstyle.

Heavy armor has also taken a heavy hit, werewolves in pvp have used heavy armor for a lonnnng time due to the magicka sustain, increased health, and increased healing received, these now come at a pretty high cost, with increased roll cost and slower sprint speeds.

Personally I would prefer to see their heal changed to a HOT and scale it off of Max Stamina & Weapon damage. This would help remove more of the troll werewolf playstyles.

Human builds can build survival and damage though stacking their stam/weapon damage or Magicka/ Spell Damage, Werewolves can not.

The only real benefit that werewolf has gained recently is their ability to use damage proc sets, this comes from their bonus to stamina and Weapon damage.

I can agree that the heal becoming a HoT would take them down quite a bit. I'm not really speaking of recent changes either by the way I'm looking at where they were about 2 years ago basically just being OP light attack builds that couldn't really heal themselves but put out enough pressure that it was hard to pressure them back and now being able to kill a capped resist player in 2 or 3 hits while healing from 25% to full with a single button press and still having 50k resist.

I think I mentioned it in my previous comment but they ain't running around with 50k resistances... they have the same resistance capabilities as human players now. And if they do build to 50k resistances they aren't 2 shoting a cap resistant player in 2-3 hits unless the player is running around with 10k health.

P4RM3S4N

Chrlynsch wrote: »

P4RM3S4N wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Really werewolf has been nerfed pretty hard over the last year. Lots of indirect nerfs and a few werewolf specific nerfs.

They change to their armor buff makes it so stacking armor isn't as easy, they traded their 10k armor buff for the 6kish granted by major resolve that they got in its place. This means werewolves can no longer gain a lot resistance of by pairing it with a set like Chudan, or gaining the additional buff from say a warden.

Health regen was also completely gutted for pvp, Werewolves have been using sets to help provide them with a source of healing over time. Allesian Order was the major culprit, but zos not only nerfed ww Armor but also health regen in pvp. Killing part of the trollish werewolf playstyle.

Heavy armor has also taken a heavy hit, werewolves in pvp have used heavy armor for a lonnnng time due to the magicka sustain, increased health, and increased healing received, these now come at a pretty high cost, with increased roll cost and slower sprint speeds.

Personally I would prefer to see their heal changed to a HOT and scale it off of Max Stamina & Weapon damage. This would help remove more of the troll werewolf playstyles.

Human builds can build survival and damage though stacking their stam/weapon damage or Magicka/ Spell Damage, Werewolves can not.

The only real benefit that werewolf has gained recently is their ability to use damage proc sets, this comes from their bonus to stamina and Weapon damage.

I can agree that the heal becoming a HoT would take them down quite a bit. I'm not really speaking of recent changes either by the way I'm looking at where they were about 2 years ago basically just being OP light attack builds that couldn't really heal themselves but put out enough pressure that it was hard to pressure them back and now being able to kill a capped resist player in 2 or 3 hits while healing from 25% to full with a single button press and still having 50k resist.

I think I mentioned it in my previous comment but they ain't running around with 50k resistances... they have the same resistance capabilities as human players now. And if they do build to 50k resistances they aren't 2 shoting a cap resistant player in 2-3 hits unless the player is running around with 10k health.

Ok but I can pull up the video in my history... and yep there it is... 50k resist and 13.3k + 25% spammable, which would be 16,625 aka 8k+ in pvp unbuffed, which doesn't include the dots.

P4RM3S4N

A lot of their buffs are "While slotted" as well, they don't have to spend time casting buffs, they can just attack and heal.

Chrlynsch

P4RM3S4N wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

P4RM3S4N wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Really werewolf has been nerfed pretty hard over the last year. Lots of indirect nerfs and a few werewolf specific nerfs.

They change to their armor buff makes it so stacking armor isn't as easy, they traded their 10k armor buff for the 6kish granted by major resolve that they got in its place. This means werewolves can no longer gain a lot resistance of by pairing it with a set like Chudan, or gaining the additional buff from say a warden.

Health regen was also completely gutted for pvp, Werewolves have been using sets to help provide them with a source of healing over time. Allesian Order was the major culprit, but zos not only nerfed ww Armor but also health regen in pvp. Killing part of the trollish werewolf playstyle.

Heavy armor has also taken a heavy hit, werewolves in pvp have used heavy armor for a lonnnng time due to the magicka sustain, increased health, and increased healing received, these now come at a pretty high cost, with increased roll cost and slower sprint speeds.

Personally I would prefer to see their heal changed to a HOT and scale it off of Max Stamina & Weapon damage. This would help remove more of the troll werewolf playstyles.

Human builds can build survival and damage though stacking their stam/weapon damage or Magicka/ Spell Damage, Werewolves can not.

The only real benefit that werewolf has gained recently is their ability to use damage proc sets, this comes from their bonus to stamina and Weapon damage.

I can agree that the heal becoming a HoT would take them down quite a bit. I'm not really speaking of recent changes either by the way I'm looking at where they were about 2 years ago basically just being OP light attack builds that couldn't really heal themselves but put out enough pressure that it was hard to pressure them back and now being able to kill a capped resist player in 2 or 3 hits while healing from 25% to full with a single button press and still having 50k resist.

I think I mentioned it in my previous comment but they ain't running around with 50k resistances... they have the same resistance capabilities as human players now. And if they do build to 50k resistances they aren't 2 shoting a cap resistant player in 2-3 hits unless the player is running around with 10k health.

Ok but I can pull up the video in my history... and yep there it is... 50k resist and 13.3k + 25% spammable, which would be 16,625 aka 8k+ in pvp unbuffed, which doesn't include the dots.

Link your video, I assume it is from an old patch before their resistance nerfs.

Also you are talking about tooltips, so even in pvp looking at a 16625k tooltip you still need to factor in your enemy's resistances, that would take that hit down from 8k to 4k at cap... that is before any other cp reductions or mitigation buffs.

P4RM3S4N

Chrlynsch wrote: »

P4RM3S4N wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

P4RM3S4N wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Really werewolf has been nerfed pretty hard over the last year. Lots of indirect nerfs and a few werewolf specific nerfs.

They change to their armor buff makes it so stacking armor isn't as easy, they traded their 10k armor buff for the 6kish granted by major resolve that they got in its place. This means werewolves can no longer gain a lot resistance of by pairing it with a set like Chudan, or gaining the additional buff from say a warden.

Health regen was also completely gutted for pvp, Werewolves have been using sets to help provide them with a source of healing over time. Allesian Order was the major culprit, but zos not only nerfed ww Armor but also health regen in pvp. Killing part of the trollish werewolf playstyle.

Heavy armor has also taken a heavy hit, werewolves in pvp have used heavy armor for a lonnnng time due to the magicka sustain, increased health, and increased healing received, these now come at a pretty high cost, with increased roll cost and slower sprint speeds.

Personally I would prefer to see their heal changed to a HOT and scale it off of Max Stamina & Weapon damage. This would help remove more of the troll werewolf playstyles.

Human builds can build survival and damage though stacking their stam/weapon damage or Magicka/ Spell Damage, Werewolves can not.

The only real benefit that werewolf has gained recently is their ability to use damage proc sets, this comes from their bonus to stamina and Weapon damage.

I can agree that the heal becoming a HoT would take them down quite a bit. I'm not really speaking of recent changes either by the way I'm looking at where they were about 2 years ago basically just being OP light attack builds that couldn't really heal themselves but put out enough pressure that it was hard to pressure them back and now being able to kill a capped resist player in 2 or 3 hits while healing from 25% to full with a single button press and still having 50k resist.

I think I mentioned it in my previous comment but they ain't running around with 50k resistances... they have the same resistance capabilities as human players now. And if they do build to 50k resistances they aren't 2 shoting a cap resistant player in 2-3 hits unless the player is running around with 10k health.

Ok but I can pull up the video in my history... and yep there it is... 50k resist and 13.3k + 25% spammable, which would be 16,625 aka 8k+ in pvp unbuffed, which doesn't include the dots.

Link your video, I assume it is from an old patch before their resistance nerfs.

Also you are talking about tooltips, so even in pvp looking at a 16625k tooltip you still need to factor in your enemy's resistances, that would take that hit down from 8k to 4k at cap... that is before any other cp reductions or mitigation buffs.

It's from 17 days ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bryUxK0uQek&t=425s

and yes that's before buffs and before they lower your resists

P4RM3S4N

I feel like people are missing the point as well, this is a build that has 5 skills, they don't need to keep casting things like elude or rally or resist buffs etc, they just smack the crap out of you and don't ever have to stop unless you get them low and they just press 1 button to heal and good to go.

Edit: They also take 10% less damage just for being in ww form.

Chrlynsch

P4RM3S4N wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

P4RM3S4N wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

P4RM3S4N wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Really werewolf has been nerfed pretty hard over the last year. Lots of indirect nerfs and a few werewolf specific nerfs.

They change to their armor buff makes it so stacking armor isn't as easy, they traded their 10k armor buff for the 6kish granted by major resolve that they got in its place. This means werewolves can no longer gain a lot resistance of by pairing it with a set like Chudan, or gaining the additional buff from say a warden.

Health regen was also completely gutted for pvp, Werewolves have been using sets to help provide them with a source of healing over time. Allesian Order was the major culprit, but zos not only nerfed ww Armor but also health regen in pvp. Killing part of the trollish werewolf playstyle.

Heavy armor has also taken a heavy hit, werewolves in pvp have used heavy armor for a lonnnng time due to the magicka sustain, increased health, and increased healing received, these now come at a pretty high cost, with increased roll cost and slower sprint speeds.

Personally I would prefer to see their heal changed to a HOT and scale it off of Max Stamina & Weapon damage. This would help remove more of the troll werewolf playstyles.

Human builds can build survival and damage though stacking their stam/weapon damage or Magicka/ Spell Damage, Werewolves can not.

The only real benefit that werewolf has gained recently is their ability to use damage proc sets, this comes from their bonus to stamina and Weapon damage.

I can agree that the heal becoming a HoT would take them down quite a bit. I'm not really speaking of recent changes either by the way I'm looking at where they were about 2 years ago basically just being OP light attack builds that couldn't really heal themselves but put out enough pressure that it was hard to pressure them back and now being able to kill a capped resist player in 2 or 3 hits while healing from 25% to full with a single button press and still having 50k resist.

I think I mentioned it in my previous comment but they ain't running around with 50k resistances... they have the same resistance capabilities as human players now. And if they do build to 50k resistances they aren't 2 shoting a cap resistant player in 2-3 hits unless the player is running around with 10k health.

Ok but I can pull up the video in my history... and yep there it is... 50k resist and 13.3k + 25% spammable, which would be 16,625 aka 8k+ in pvp unbuffed, which doesn't include the dots.

Link your video, I assume it is from an old patch before their resistance nerfs.

Also you are talking about tooltips, so even in pvp looking at a 16625k tooltip you still need to factor in your enemy's resistances, that would take that hit down from 8k to 4k at cap... that is before any other cp reductions or mitigation buffs.

It's from 17 days ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bryUxK0uQek&t=425s

and yes that's before buffs and before they lower your resists

Procced Pariah, lady mundus, sword&board resistance cp, Gaze of sithis. Non of those things are werewolf specific. Any player could put those on and achieve those resistances.

P4RM3S4N wrote: »

I feel like people are missing the point as well, this is a build that has 5 skills, they don't need to keep casting things like elude or rally or resist buffs etc, they just smack the crap out of you and don't ever have to stop unless you get them low and they just press 1 button to heal and good to go.

Edit: They also take 10% less damage just for being in ww form.

Yup the 5 skills can be seen as a perk or as curse, they dont have to keep their buffs up like major savagery or major brutality. Their isn't a buff in the game that human players have to "keep up" that also doesn't provide other Benefits to the player.

Werewolf kit is pretty strong and my seem overtunned but remember that their abilities come at a higher cost, they take additional damage from both fighter's guild abilities and poison attacks, they can't Stealth, they can't mount, they can't remove snares, they can't use any abilities outside of werewolf line, they loose the majority of their class passives, and weapon passives.

If the player picks pack leader (10% bonus damage mitigation) they no longer get access to their bleed perk.

P4RM3S4N

Chrlynsch wrote: »

"Procced Pariah, lady mundus, sword&board resistance cp, Gaze of sithis. Non of those things are werewolf specific. Any player could put those on and achieve those resistances. "

This argument assumes I only care about the resistances, which isn't the case, insane damage and healing while specd completely into resists is the problem.

"Yup the 5 skills can be seen as a perk or as curse, they dont have to keep their buffs up like major savagery or major brutality. Their isn't a buff in the game that human players have to "keep up" that also doesn't provide other Benefits to the player. "

That doesn't mean that not having to cast your buffs isn't a massive advantage. Your argument there is essentially, if my one buff that requires me to cast it gives me 300 weapon damage and 6k resist, because it does 2 things it's somehow better than 2 seperate buffs that give someone 300 weapon damage and 6k resist while not having to cast them and freeing up time to get off 2 extra attacks and never having to worry about them dropping off at a crucial moment.

"Werewolf kit is pretty strong and my seem overtunned but remember that their abilities come at a higher cost, they take additional damage from both fighter's guild abilities and poison attacks, they can't Stealth, they can't mount, they can't remove snares, they can't use any abilities outside of werewolf line, they loose the majority of their class passives, and weapon passives. "

Mounting is irrelevant. Stealth is irrelevant, 99.9999 of fights I have with stamplars and dks and literally every other class aside from nb involves zero stealth. Not every class uses fighter's guild abilities or poison attacks, in fact most don't, so that hardly seems a justification or balance. If anything, nerf the form and remove the weaknesses or tune them down to an irrelevant point. I get the lore aspect, but keeping to the lore does not always equal balanced combat. They don't need any abilities outside of the ww line. In a 1v1 the transformation is so strong that not being able to remove snares hardly matters, they have a gap closer, and they don't need to avoid damage when they have 50k resists and an instant heal to full health.

"If the player picks pack leader (10% bonus damage mitigation) they no longer get access to their bleed perk."

Doesn't mean it isn't strong to get 10% reduced damage for doing nothing.

Fawn4287

I don’t know who the WW roleplayer at ZOS is but they need to be taken off the balancing team, the easiest and most simple fix is to make werewolf last 20 seconds like EVERY OTHER TRANSFORMATION ULT IN THE GAME

Skoomah

P4RM3S4N wrote: »

About 2 years ago, werewolf was already considered to be broken in that all you had to do was light attack people and you would end up killing the majority of players 1 on 1. For whatever reason, it was buffed, and not just a little. I have 32k resist in pvp, and I get hit for 7k+ by the spammable, along with 8 billion stacks of dots. I watched a couple vids of people's WW builds to see what's going on with it, these guys were all resist sets with no damage boosting sets, have 50k resists, like 3k recovery, and still have 14k+25% spammables and 20k burst heals. This is ridiculous. I would understand this if WW wore off as quickly as the necro transformation, as it's an ult and ults are supposed to do damage. However, this is basically just another build, people stay WW literally forever.

Have you tried playing as a werewolf?

katorga

I don't think I've even seen a single WW in Cyrodiil all midyear mayhem.

I know for sure I have not fought one.

Maybe its a BG/IC thing.

ThePianist

I’ve been running around Cyro and IC as a werewolf berserker and destroying people.

Is it as good as it used to be? No. The damage and tankiness is not what it used to be. Back then, I didn’t run double dot poisons but now it’s a must if you want to kill someone.

Any class can be broken in the hands of a skilled player. There are some WW players that do nothing than just annoy you, and then there are some that will catch you by surprise and take your hairline as a trophy.

DrSlaughtr

WW even more so than vampire has always been an RP "class" (it's not a class but you get my point). It's designed to be what a WW should be capable of (because they're werewolves) rather than balance.

So tankiness.
Check.
Super strength and claws = high LA damage. Check.
High damage resilience.
Check.
A pack of dumb wolf pets to harass everyone.
Check.

Having said all that, I remember the WW meta. It was a very obnoxious few patches. They were adjusted and now you only see WWs being played by people who don't mind working for their kills, whereas before any idiot could throw on tank gear and go on a murder spree.

I think they are in a good place. It's when you start seeing 25% to 50% werewolves everywhere that you know things are imbalanced.

Iriidius

Werewolfes doesnt have more resistance than normal players anymore. They only get major resolve now like every other player in the game. After this buff they are so overpowered that after 3 years i stopped using it. Would probably even prefer werewolf from before greymoor.
Werewolf transformation shouldnt be limited to 20 because it doesnt make you stronger than in human form. I cant remember having ever seen a necromancer dying in goliath form. It is also only packleader morph that can stay in werewolf form forever without much effort while as a werewolf berserker it is a constant struggle to keep werewolf up. you cant get from one ressoursse to the other . If werewolf uptime is too high maybe you should just revert the change in update 26 that direwolfes make werewolf time run out 2*20% slower.
Werewolf damage also wasnt increased since nerf in update 23 and 24, but damage at all has increased drastically. 7 k damage spamables are also possible without werewolf atm and only because werewolfes in video have high resistances it doesnt mean the werewolf who killed you had high ressoursses. maybe he wore damage sets.
I think the main reason why werewolf was strong was the alessian crimson chudan setup that was nerfed now.
People are complaining that there are too many werewolfes but even before nerf i have rarely seen one on blackreach pc eu. If you would count them as an own spec, they would probably be the least used one. I dont know where you have 25 to 50% werewolfs, but for me it looks more like 0-2% werewolfs.
Probably they were more popular in IC because solo players farming Tel Var by killing NPCs
dont like beeing group ganked.
As a werewolf you also use weapon passives for both bars(2h front bar, shield backbar, backbar weapon trait and glyph. You cant backbar sets and use ultis because you already are a ulti.
Also Lycantrophe seems to be an experienced player and not only carried by werewolf. he probably plays werewolf because he likes it. How good a bad player with werewolf is you can also see in the video where lycantrophe kills an enemy werewolf easily. He also kills the enemy players not very fast.

P4RM3S4N

Iriidius wrote: »

Werewolfes doesnt have more resistance than normal players anymore. They only get major resolve now like every other player in the game. After this buff they are so overpowered that after 3 years i stopped using it. Would probably even prefer werewolf from before greymoor.
Werewolf transformation shouldnt be limited to 20 because it doesnt make you stronger than in human form. I cant remember having ever seen a necromancer dying in goliath form. It is also only packleader morph that can stay in werewolf form forever without much effort while as a werewolf berserker it is a constant struggle to keep werewolf up. you cant get from one ressoursse to the other . If werewolf uptime is too high maybe you should just revert the change in update 26 that direwolfes make werewolf time run out 2*20% slower.
Werewolf damage also wasnt increased since nerf in update 23 and 24, but damage at all has increased drastically. 7 k damage spamables are also possible without werewolf atm and only because werewolfes in video have high resistances it doesnt mean the werewolf who killed you had high ressoursses. maybe he wore damage sets.
I think the main reason why werewolf was strong was the alessian crimson chudan setup that was nerfed now.
People are complaining that there are too many werewolfes but even before nerf i have rarely seen one on blackreach pc eu. If you would count them as an own spec, they would probably be the least used one. I dont know where you have 25 to 50% werewolfs, but for me it looks more like 0-2% werewolfs.
Probably they were more popular in IC because solo players farming Tel Var by killing NPCs
dont like beeing group ganked.
As a werewolf you also use weapon passives for both bars(2h front bar, shield backbar, backbar weapon trait and glyph. You cant backbar sets and use ultis because you already are a ulti.
Also Lycantrophe seems to be an experienced player and not only carried by werewolf. he probably plays werewolf because he likes it. How good a bad player with werewolf is you can also see in the video where lycantrophe kills an enemy werewolf easily. He also kills the enemy players not very fast.

You are out of your mind if you think werewolf doesn't make you stronger than your human form, you just compared ww to a TRANSFORMATION that lasts like 17 seconds and acted like that's human. Just because ww have been somehow nerfed doesn't mean they can't still be broken and they definitely are. People keep acting like I'm JUST complaining about resist or JUST complaining about damage. I'm saying that 1. USING ALL RESIST SETS AND NO DAMAGE BOOSTING SETS 2. They still have have high damage and 3. They don't have to cast buffs so literally all they do is attack and press 1 button to return to full health

P4RM3S4N

I run around pvp just slamming pretty much everyone but the second I come across a ww I feel like I might as well not even try. It's actually broken and I honestly think the people saying it isn't either spend their time in zergs and never actually solo, or they play ww.

P4RM3S4N

Rip

Chrlynsch

There is a reason that you don't see scores of werewolves in pvp anymore, there was a time when they were very strong, but that time is long gone.

ZOS rarely adjusts things unless they see that thing being used by the masses. If you still think that they are over powered there is nothing stopping you from getting a bite, and spreading it to the masses.

Can a group of 4 werewolves beat a group of 4 unorganized players, probably. There is a reason that "serious" pvpers don't use werewolf, it lacks versatility, cross healing, snare removal, synergies/ult burst. An army of Werewolves is an army of individuals, and ESO is a game where cooperation and diversity will win wars.

P4RM3S4N

Chrlynsch wrote: »

There is a reason that you don't see scores of werewolves in pvp anymore, there was a time when they were very strong, but that time is long gone.

ZOS rarely adjusts things unless they see that thing being used by the masses. If you still think that they are over powered there is nothing stopping you from getting a bite, and spreading it to the masses.

Can a group of 4 werewolves beat a group of 4 unorganized players, probably. There is a reason that "serious" pvpers don't use werewolf, it lacks versatility, cross healing, snare removal, synergies/ult burst. An army of Werewolves is an army of individuals, and ESO is a game where cooperation and diversity will win wars.

[snip] How bout if it's broken it gets balanced? It's broken. A build that uses 1 bar and doesn't have to keep up buffs and is rewarded for the no effort it takes to use by being given way above average abilities is what would generally be considered broken. I'm not talking about group play and these group arguments people keep making are exactly why pvp on this game is in the god awful condition it's in right now. Zos balances for 50 man groups instead of 1v1 like the game should be balanced. The fact that people actually have fun sitting in the middle of a 50 man group getting off 1 light attack on a guy before he dies will never stop confusing me. The goal should be to teach people how to fight 1 on 1 and learn all the details in intricacies of actual combat, teaching people how to react to each new situation and overcome but instead no effort is made and we just make random awful changes. The ww build I linked has a 16,625 spammable WHILE WEARING NOTHING BUT RESIST SETS the most damage built character I currently have which is a stamblade built for full wpn dmg with new moon acolyte sitting well over 7k wpn dmg has a surprise attack tooltip at 14.5k (And that's using malacath) which is significantly lower than the ww that put literally nothing into damage. [snip] not to mention they also do not have to keep up buffs and his burst heal tooltips at 20k. Idk how u can look at that and say "yep seems balanced"

[edited for baiting]

ToxicOutrage

Werewolves are weak, they are only effective against noobs and bad players

1 Extremely susceptible to immobilize/stun.

2 their spammable is very easy to dodge as it is a ranged projectile not a melee attack, which makes it fully blocked by shield-reflecting abilities.

3 They have harder time chasing people than one might think because they can cast gap closer only once per 2 sec not once per 1 sec like other classes

4 No purge

5 insane 25% poison damage penalty

6 + all the direct and indirect nerfs last patch

Chrlynsch

Yes that heal tooltip shows 20k, in pvp that is equal to a 9k burst heal with heavy passives, but really that's it for werewolf healing. That burst heal also cost just about 6k magicka in order to cast. In heavy armor and with base magicka recovery a werewolf can cast that heal roughly 3 times consecutively before waiting on magicka regen, you are looking at 1 heal every 12 seconds at that rate without crit heals you are at the equivalent of a little over 1.2k healing tick.