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Please nerf Crystal Weapon ganking
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maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »
I don't have problems with NB ganks as long as I am alert and on guard, but multiple GCDs worth of buffed stealth Overload hitting simultaneously from range before the target's client responds is something else entirely. Crushing Crystal Overload Overload deals 30-40k invisible and uncounterable to a tanky target. The desync is so bad that hits don't even show up on the death recap or in your CMX combat log.It is just one of the many things this patch that can insta-kill you without counterplay.
Overload desync is a game bug, nothing you can do about that. You don't nerf classes because of a bug, you fix the bug. I don't need crystal weapon to gank people with overload, OL works just fine on my mag sorc to gank.
I'm not sure what the big deal is about nerfing CW. Other classes/builds can do the same thing, just differently.
In nerfing sets such as Clever Alchemist and Undaunted Infiltrator to only work in combat, the Devs have tried to rein in ganking. The OP has a point. Another poster also submitted a bug report on Imbue and Crystal doing much more damage than intended from stealth. I remember that report, but it was never answered.
I'm okay with ganking to a degree. But I think everyone should have a chance to fight back if aware. This Crystal / Imbue / Overload ganking is over the top. It doesn't even list overload in the death recap, combat metrics, or ftc combat log. You are trying to figure out what happened. The damage reported only shows 18k dmg and yet you had 30k+ health and 25k+ resistances.
The Devs should look into this. I have already submitted a report. And will begin videotaping it to show them exactly what is happening.2 -
DontWorryAboutit✭✭✭
Not really. As I've said, Clever Alchemist cannot be activated outside of combat, because it was felt that nightblades using the set became too powerful gankers. This was a change to that set from it's original design. Secondly the construction of some burst skills, Grim Focus and stamsorc's own Bound Armaments, is such that you have to build them in combat, before you can use them. Thirdly every proc set in the game was adjusted to either be a DOT or have a one second proc delay. This was done precisely to facilitate ganking counterplay, e.g. by disallowing a burst proc to happen straight out of cloak. The same goes for the 400ms delay on ultimates, although I do not agree with that one. Having said all that, I'd be happy to try just the uncrouch thing first.Casting only in combat would be the only skill with that mechanic right?
Not really. As I've said, Clever Alchemist cannot be activated outside of combat, because it was felt that nightblades using the set became too powerful gankers. This was a change to that set from it's original design. Secondly the construction of some burst skills, Grim Focus and stamsorc's own Bound Armaments, is such that you have to build them in combat, before you can use them. Thirdly every proc set in the game was adjusted to either be a DOT or have a one second proc delay. This was done precisely to facilitate ganking counterplay, e.g. by disallowing a burst proc to happen straight out of cloak. The same goes for the 400ms delay on ultimates, although I do not agree with that one. Having said all that, I'd be happy to try just the uncrouch thing first.Casting only in combat would be the only skill with that mechanic right?
CA was changed due to a pc add on that allowed set swappinng and the user to get 3 5 piece set bonuses.4 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Well, they actually nerfed a lot of NB skills by adding cast times & travel times as they could not fix de-syncs.... so um.. yeah, that happened....Overload desync is a game bug, nothing you can do about that. You don't nerf classes because of a bug, you fix the bug. I don't need crystal weapon to gank people with overload, OL works just fine on my mag sorc to gank.
I'm not sure what the big deal is about nerfing CW. Other classes/builds can do the same thing, just differently.
Edit:
Also it is quite interesting that the thing that I have said in some other post have happened. I mean in other thread I have said that if ZOS nerfs Snipe yet more, people will just switch to different build - overload ganking. And this is exactly what happened.
Snipe was nerfed even more, so much so, that it is impossible to range - gank with it. Also, most of the time, if it worked in the past - it was due to a de-sync. So basically, people switched from NB snipe ganking to Sorc overload ganking. And the basic mechanic is the same. Ranged hard hitting ability that is prone to health bar de-syncs.
It is amazing that in ESO, right now a Sorcerer, a dude that wields magick & power of lightning is a better assassin and is better at ambushing single target than, well.. an assassin (NB)...Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on June 28, 2021 10:56PM2 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭This is IMO worse than any nightblade ever was. No one likes being insta-killed without counterplay. It's worse than Snipe builds. It's worse than melee stamblades. At least the latter put themselves out there. Their burst is also not quite instant. Crystal Weapon is from range and, on a ganking build, results in instant death for many targets, even tanky ones. If you think that's fine and should be in the game, fair enough. If you think this is a function of the high damage in the current patch and something should be done about the meta as a whole, fair enough. If you think, like me, that something should be done just about this playstyle - like has been done to rein in nightblade playstyles in the past - then I have the following suggestions:
(A) Make it so that Crystal Weapon cannot be cast out of combat (in PvP). Similar to how you cannot activate Clever Alchemist nor can you carry a Grim Focus stack while out of combat.
(B) At the very least make it so Crystal Weapon uncrouches you and, thus, the sorc may be seen as he / she is preparing the attack.
Better yet, don't let it stack with imbue weapon. Sorc ganking is only possible not because overlaod or stealth cast of crystal weapon, but because how you can combine crystal weapon and imbue weapon and overlaod and glyphs in 1 attack.
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universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭
Unwanted by who? As a nightblade main this makes me laugh. Adding clunkiness is the point. All I'm saying is: Welcome to the club, the club where Clever Alchemist before combat was outlawed, where a magblade can only get Major Sorcery before combat from a potion (magblade-specific gripe, I know) and where you have to light attack 5 times in combat to get your burst skill ready.WrathOfInnos wrote: »I think the in-combat requirement would lead to unwanted clunkiness, as would adding a cast time.
Stamsorc burst skill is bound armament, it require 4 light attacks and cannot gain more stacks from hea attacks unlike merciless. Also, bound armament last 10sec full stacks, merciless last full skill duration with better passives.
Not really. As I've said, Clever Alchemist cannot be activated outside of combat, because it was felt that nightblades using the set became too powerful gankers. This was a change to that set from it's original design. Secondly the construction of some burst skills, Grim Focus and stamsorc's own Bound Armaments, is such that you have to build them in combat, before you can use them. Thirdly every proc set in the game was adjusted to either be a DOT or have a one second proc delay. This was done precisely to facilitate ganking counterplay, e.g. by disallowing a burst proc to happen straight out of cloak. The same goes for the 400ms delay on ultimates, although I do not agree with that one. Having said all that, I'd be happy to try just the uncrouch thing first.Casting only in combat would be the only skill with that mechanic right?
It is fair game if they mak this feature for nightblades too. Any skill beside heals you use while crouch gets you out of stealth.2 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭Pepegrillos wrote: »When I read the topic name, I came in expecting complains about these kinds of builds:
Example 1: https://www.twitch.tv/fengrush/clip/BusyFlaccidHumanTheRinger-vhDSBIo6ZO6ENtJH?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time
Example 2: https://www.twitch.tv/fengrush/clip/HonorableLittlePoultryTBCheesePull-dSqwkTXBE3tox5_P?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time
As funny as it is, you can clearly see he does not have crushing weapon or overlaod. He only buffed crystal weapon and heavy attacked. Multiple numbers showed up and I assume there are as followed, heavy daul wields, daul glyphs, ashen grip, and possibly another 2 proc sets like vet 2H and maybe venom( venom works eith LA/HA)1 -
Xargas13✭✭✭I rarely get insta dead, most often occurrence is when I am against two or three sorcs, but sorcs are insane and 3 of them... Well, 3 people should be able to kill one player. I have a problem when I get insta kill in 1v1 though, because there is no counter play and usually you cant do the same. Its not Counter Strike, and there shouldn't be any "head shots"3 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭I rarely get insta dead
Well, you're playing Heavy Armor MagCro right? I think this is probably the single best sort of build to survive extreme burst - granted you may have less opportunities to set up your own complicated delayed burst combos when combat is this quick.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
Draevik✭✭✭Honestly just make it a good spammable that has a 7m range, increase the damage a bit instead of something that activates on light attack.0
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Xargas13✭✭✭Urzigurumash wrote: »
I'm changing builds faster then underwear
But you are right, I was playing heavy armor, but recently decided to go with some pieces of light armor plus heavy, for some magicka based bonuses. I used Nirnrooted trait for some sweet resistances, and its working fine for now, you never know though, might have been lucky 
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Xeniph✭✭✭✭✭There are two obvious and easy solutions here:
1) Lower Crystal weapons buff time to match Elemental/Crushing's timer, so they can't be stacked.
2) Or/And Declassify "Overload" as a light/heavy attack as it's an ultimate ability. It' can keep it's functionality, just prevent stacking with Crystal/Crushing.
This way, Sorcs can still gank and pve functionality is preserved.
Though I am a HUGE fan of the ganking playstyle and believe it's necessary for a healthy open world pvp environment, ESO has steadily nerfed the playstyle over the years and if this is as bad as you folks say, it should be looked at.Here since Beta.
Characters: All of them, both Stamina and Magicka.1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There are two obvious and easy solutions here:
1) Lower Crystal weapons buff time to match Elemental/Crushing's timer, so they can't be stacked.
2) Or/And Declassify "Overload" as a light/heavy attack as it's an ultimate ability. It' can keep it's functionality, just prevent stacking with Crystal/Crushing.
This way, Sorcs can still gank and pve functionality is preserved.
Though I am a HUGE fan of the ganking playstyle and believe it's necessary for a healthy open world pvp environment, ESO has steadily nerfed the playstyle over the years and if this is as bad as you folks say, it should be looked at.
Its not that bad.
There's a reason for pariah etc S3 SnB etc 30k+ health. Dont wanna be pwmed by a one shot; dont be squishy.
Now desync bug is a PIA and still happens with more than OL0 -
Xeniph✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »There are two obvious and easy solutions here:
1) Lower Crystal weapons buff time to match Elemental/Crushing's timer, so they can't be stacked.
2) Or/And Declassify "Overload" as a light/heavy attack as it's an ultimate ability. It' can keep it's functionality, just prevent stacking with Crystal/Crushing.
This way, Sorcs can still gank and pve functionality is preserved.
Though I am a HUGE fan of the ganking playstyle and believe it's necessary for a healthy open world pvp environment, ESO has steadily nerfed the playstyle over the years and if this is as bad as you folks say, it should be looked at.
Its not that bad.
There's a reason for pariah etc S3 SnB etc 30k+ health. Dont wanna be pwmed by a one shot; dont be squishy.
Now desync bug is a PIA and still happens with more than OL
I'm a ganker so I don't have to deal with this. They don't catch me lol.Here since Beta.
Characters: All of them, both Stamina and Magicka.0 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pepegrillos wrote: »When I read the topic name, I came in expecting complains about these kinds of builds:
Example 1: https://www.twitch.tv/fengrush/clip/BusyFlaccidHumanTheRinger-vhDSBIo6ZO6ENtJH?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time
Example 2: https://www.twitch.tv/fengrush/clip/HonorableLittlePoultryTBCheesePull-dSqwkTXBE3tox5_P?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time
The people getting hit have like 22k health and obviously have no idea what they're doing. I run a similar build to Fengrush, and against good players, you're not going to have a good time. Against people like the ones in the clips, they obviously get removed from existence.1 -
ThePianist✭✭✭Welcome to the ever revolving meta where balance is impossible. It is simply a transfer of old cheese to new cheese. I have not been ganked by crystalnoob weapon users yet, but I have been seeing NB’s use Balista bow ult before stun-ganking. They mostly target people who are using siege.
I’m currently running a broken WW build this patch. I don’t know if I should share it to everybody. I don’t want Ironblood set to get nerfed the day I post the build but I call it the Hairline Hunter.
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gariondavey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Fred, a bow stamsorc ganked you with crushing, crystal weapon and overload?PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden0 -
Pepegrillos✭✭✭✭✭Pepegrillos wrote: »When I read the topic name, I came in expecting complains about these kinds of builds:
Example 1: https://www.twitch.tv/fengrush/clip/BusyFlaccidHumanTheRinger-vhDSBIo6ZO6ENtJH?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time
Example 2: https://www.twitch.tv/fengrush/clip/HonorableLittlePoultryTBCheesePull-dSqwkTXBE3tox5_P?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time
The people getting hit have like 22k health and obviously have no idea what they're doing. I run a similar build to Fengrush, and against good players, you're not going to have a good time. Against people like the ones in the clips, they obviously get removed from existence.
I don't think that changes much. There are good players using that build in high mmr bgs against good players, both in NA and EU. There is not much a good player can do when the entire combo is released after an unblockable streak and a medium weave that goes off before you can break free.3 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Pepegrillos wrote: »When I read the topic name, I came in expecting complains about these kinds of builds:
Example 1: https://www.twitch.tv/fengrush/clip/BusyFlaccidHumanTheRinger-vhDSBIo6ZO6ENtJH?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time
Example 2: https://www.twitch.tv/fengrush/clip/HonorableLittlePoultryTBCheesePull-dSqwkTXBE3tox5_P?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time
The people getting hit have like 22k health and obviously have no idea what they're doing. I run a similar build to Fengrush, and against good players, you're not going to have a good time. Against people like the ones in the clips, they obviously get removed from existence.
There are also good players with 30k+ health and 30k+ resistances who are getting one-shot. It's ridiculous. If the Devs want to allow one-shot ganking, then they need to revert changes to bow ganking and duel-wield heavy attack ganking.7 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is IMO worse than any nightblade ever was. No one likes being insta-killed without counterplay. It's worse than Snipe builds. It's worse than melee stamblades. At least the latter put themselves out there. Their burst is also not quite instant. Crystal Weapon is from range and, on a ganking build, results in instant death for many targets, even tanky ones. If you think that's fine and should be in the game, fair enough. If you think this is a function of the high damage in the current patch and something should be done about the meta as a whole, fair enough. If you think, like me, that something should be done just about this playstyle - like has been done to rein in nightblade playstyles in the past - then I have the following suggestions:
(A) Make it so that Crystal Weapon cannot be cast out of combat (in PvP). Similar to how you cannot activate Clever Alchemist nor can you carry a Grim Focus stack while out of combat.
(B) At the very least make it so Crystal Weapon uncrouches you and, thus, the sorc may be seen as he / she is preparing the attack.
How about tackling the real issue which is Vampire passives allowing you to enter stealth quickly instead of Crystal Weapon, which is fine as it is?Platform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc0 -
darvaria✭✭✭✭✭All these stam sorcs desperately trying to defend and hold on to these broken mechanics.
Nerf incoming!10 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
This. I'm sorry, Waffenacht, maybe this hasn't caught on on console yet.Pepegrillos wrote: »When I read the topic name, I came in expecting complains about these kinds of builds:
Example 1: https://www.twitch.tv/fengrush/clip/BusyFlaccidHumanTheRinger-vhDSBIo6ZO6ENtJH?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time
Example 2: https://www.twitch.tv/fengrush/clip/HonorableLittlePoultryTBCheesePull-dSqwkTXBE3tox5_P?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time
The people getting hit have like 22k health and obviously have no idea what they're doing. I run a similar build to Fengrush, and against good players, you're not going to have a good time. Against people like the ones in the clips, they obviously get removed from existence.
There are also good players with 30k+ health and 30k+ resistances who are getting one-shot. It's ridiculous. If the Devs want to allow one-shot ganking, then they need to revert changes to bow ganking and duel-wield heavy attack ganking.PC EU: Magblade (PvP main), DK (PvE Tank), Sorc (PvP and PvE), Magden (PvE Healer), Magplar (PvP and PvE DD), Arcanist (PvE DD)
PC NA: Magblade (PvP and PvE every role)1 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭All these stam sorcs desperately trying to defend and hold on to these broken mechanics.
Nerf incoming!
Of course. I was campaigning for stam sorc buffs for YEARS. I was even banned from the forum for being so passionate about it. When we finally get buffs people want them nerfed
As I said above though, nerf it from stealth for all I care. It's a cheap mechanic anyway.
Edited by Alucardo on July 2, 2021 11:24AM0 -
axi✭✭✭✭✭vesselwiththepestle wrote: »Sounds reasonable and wouldn't have an impact on pve.
It would have impact on PvE. Imagine new players coming to the game and trying to start their rotation with crystal weapon. Even for more experienced players it could be problematic because sometimes prebuff and 1st 1-2 DoTs are happening out of combat and it's 1st spammable cast that starts it. It would cause confusion. There is a difference between sets that can proc only in combat and abilities that cannot be used outside of combat.0 -
axi✭✭✭✭✭
Tell this to bomb blades.
Also remember that 1st attack from hide or cloak is on auto crit anyway so You dont need acuity proc for that 1st attack and everything that follows will be on auto crit thanks to procced acuity. So yeah it's viable for ganking especially for bombing.Edited by axi on July 2, 2021 11:57AM1 -
Kaysha✭✭✭✭vesselwiththepestle wrote: »Sounds reasonable and wouldn't have an impact on pve.
It would have impact on PvE. Imagine new players coming to the game and trying to start their rotation with crystal weapon. Even for more experienced players it could be problematic because sometimes prebuff and 1st 1-2 DoTs are happening out of combat and it's 1st spammable cast that starts it. It would cause confusion. There is a difference between sets that can proc only in combat and abilities that cannot be used outside of combat.
If possible confusion is the only problem...0 -
francesinhalover✭✭✭✭✭
✭Alright so here's the deal.
Pve players use this skill to insta kill from behind npcs, It's fun. and SHOULDN'T BE NERFED.
However It's understandable that this skill on PVP with a bow is too strong.
That being said, the devs don't separate pvp from pve. So if it gets nerfed It will ruin the fun of many pve players.
However there's no other way to balance this, so the skill when activated should indeed make you visible.
Sorry pve players, but pvp is more important i guess.I am @fluffypallascat pc eu if someone wants to play together
Shadow strike is the best cp passive ever!0 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭francesinhalover wrote: »Alright so here's the deal.
Pve players use this skill to insta kill from behind npcs, It's fun. and SHOULDN'T BE NERFED.
However It's understandable that this skill on PVP with a bow is too strong.
That being said, the devs don't separate pvp from pve. So if it gets nerfed It will ruin the fun of many pve players.
However there's no other way to balance this, so the skill when activated should indeed make you visible.
Sorry pve players, but pvp is more important i guess.
This is not a bow attack. And other styles of one-shot mechanics the are bow or heavy attacks have already been nerfed. If you wanna insta kill npcs from behind, there is a skill you can use - Blade of Woe.1
