The Ancestral Motifs are officially out of hand.

alberichtano

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

Someone sounds a little impatient

There was a time, early I guess, when I tried to get all the style pages and motifs and whatnot. I have given up on that. There are more new ones coming out than I find pieces of the old (rare) ones, so, meh. Can't be bothered. There is more than enough grind as it is. ;-)

xv1_me

What’s wrong with farming gold and then buying them?

Gold is easy enough to farm, not the mention it is currency in a video game. Who cares what the price is if you have the gold and want it just buy it.

And here we go again something is actually kind of unobtainable in the first month so people freak out on the forums lol.

xv1_me

Hapexamendios wrote: »

I've only collected 3 of the Reach ones. Needed 2 of them for big writs. Bought them for under 50k. Dug up the other. Not paying those high prices. Will treat Akavari the same.

What will you spend your precious gold pixels on then?

renne

Lmao I have 3 pieces of Ancestral Reach despite using SO MANY treasure maps (seriously, my friend who has all the pieces even gives me treasure maps) and only 2 of those pieces have come from leads. The drop rate is abysmal and intensely unenjoyable.

trackdemon5512

renne wrote: »

Lmao I have 3 pieces of Ancestral Reach despite using SO MANY treasure maps (seriously, my friend who has all the pieces even gives me treasure maps) and only 2 of those pieces have come from leads. The drop rate is abysmal and intensely unenjoyable.

I have all but 2 without buying maps. RNG is fickle.

Amottica

B0SSzombie wrote: »

But over 6 MILLION Gold to complete a Motif is completely insane..

No one is forcing anyone to pay that much for anything. It is a choice. Take the time to farm it yourself, ofc, that means taking the time to be active in ways that will lead to getting the leads.

kargen27

Sounds like I need to put my motifs in the guild store. I haven't been paying attention to prices because I've been goofing off in other areas. I know I have a couple of the motifs though because I ran around doing my thing in Blackwood while most others seemed to be camping in Shadowfen.

I don't mind that things take time. Took me months of off and on killing of Ogres to get a toe ring so I could finish that trophy hunter achievement and I still don't have my Medusa Inferno staff despite somewhere around 200 runs. Eventually I will get it and eventually I will get the other trophies I need for those achievements.

Motifs I sell when the price is high then I start collecting for myself.

SerraKBella

I don't mind the grind either, but I have been running Dragons - Harrowstorms - Dolmans for treasure maps and have had zero luck getting any of the six Blackwood treasure maps. -and opening every chest I find.

Is there a better way to farm treasure maps? I would love any helpful advise or ideas.

B0SSzombie

Amottica wrote: »

B0SSzombie wrote: »

But over 6 MILLION Gold to complete a Motif is completely insane..

No one is forcing anyone to pay that much for anything. It is a choice. Take the time to farm it yourself, ofc, that means taking the time to be active in ways that will lead to getting the leads.

I love when people make something sound so simple and mundane. Especially when it's not.

Yeah? Let me go grind Dolmens for a CHANCE to get a Treasure Map, which then has a 6 out of HUNDREDS chance of being a correct Treasure Map, which then has a CHANCE to give a lead when digging it up, which then has a CHANCE to not be a duplicate of a Motif page you need.

I'm starting to theorize that comments like that are left by people with absolutely ZERO concept of what they're talking about. Like, not the slightest grasp on any part of the Antiquities system.

kargen27

B0SSzombie wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

B0SSzombie wrote: »

But over 6 MILLION Gold to complete a Motif is completely insane..

No one is forcing anyone to pay that much for anything. It is a choice. Take the time to farm it yourself, ofc, that means taking the time to be active in ways that will lead to getting the leads.

I love when people make something sound so simple and mundane. Especially when it's not.

Yeah? Let me go grind Dolmens for a CHANCE to get a Treasure Map, which then has a 6 out of HUNDREDS chance of being a correct Treasure Map, which then has a CHANCE to give a lead when digging it up, which then has a CHANCE to not be a duplicate of a Motif page you need.

I'm starting to theorize that comments like that are left by people with absolutely ZERO concept of what they're talking about. Like, not the slightest grasp on any part of the Antiquities system.

Or people that do not need to have everything almost instantly.

cmetzger93

It’s not about wanting it instantly it’s about having a way to farm them reliably. Ancestral motifs are the only type of motif in the game where you have to go through RNG multiple times to get a drop. RNG for map, RNG for lead drop and RNG for a lead you don’t already have. Yeah you could buy treasure maps but it’s still layers of RNG, you could work on these for months or even years and still be nowhere near completion.

jle30303

xv1_me wrote: »

What’s wrong with farming gold and then buying them?

Gold is easy enough to farm, not the mention it is currency in a video game. Who cares what the price is if you have the gold and want it just buy it.

And here we go again something is actually kind of unobtainable in the first month so people freak out on the forums lol.

What's wrong with your question, is that people ALSO want "completion" on antiquity hunting in the zone. WHich means needing to actually dig up 1 of each motif part (and any duplicates) themselves, which means that if you buy anything, you buy maps, not motifs. Buying the actual motifs is for people who either (a) don't care about antiquity hunting completion, or (b) want them for a second toon.

It was bad enough going through 20 Khenarthi's Roost maps and getting duplicate leads for all *three* of the Ancestral High Elf motifs from that zone that I already had, and then taking another 15 maps to get the fourth lead which was the one I actually needed to complete the set. Because getting duplicates when there's even four diggable motifs in a zone - rather than the two in every other zone, on account of the Aldmeri Dominion having one double-sized "newbie" zone rather than two smaller newbie zones - is already frustrating.

When there's fourteen diggable motifs in just one zone (as with the Ancestral Reach), it's even worse... and the Ancestral Reach motifs, although all diggable in the Reach, still come from three or four different types of map (Western Skyrim, The Reach, and Blackreach - I can't remember whether Blackreach maps are further split, into Blackreach Greymoor and Blackreach Arkthzand): so there's at least four times the number of maps.

And then you have Blackwood, where there is only the one zone to even obtain the leads in, as well as to actually dig them.

kargen27

cmetzger93 wrote: »

It’s not about wanting it instantly it’s about having a way to farm them reliably. Ancestral motifs are the only type of motif in the game where you have to go through RNG multiple times to get a drop. RNG for map, RNG for lead drop and RNG for a lead you don’t already have. Yeah you could buy treasure maps but it’s still layers of RNG, you could work on these for months or even years and still be nowhere near completion.

I know I am in the minority here (in the forums, maybe not in the game) but I see this as a good thing. If I am still looking for a drop two years from now that means in two years I will still be enjoying the game.

jle30303

No, because spending two years doing that means spending two years NOT doing other things. You'll have quit out of frustration.

The more "random" things there are in the game, and the more "grinds" there are in the game, THE LESS GRINDY THEY EACH INDIVIDUALLY HAVE TO BE, because it is the *totality* of them that new players need to have a chance of catching up to.

jaws343

jle30303 wrote: »

xv1_me wrote: »

What’s wrong with farming gold and then buying them?

Gold is easy enough to farm, not the mention it is currency in a video game. Who cares what the price is if you have the gold and want it just buy it.

And here we go again something is actually kind of unobtainable in the first month so people freak out on the forums lol.

What's wrong with your question, is that people ALSO want "completion" on antiquity hunting in the zone. WHich means needing to actually dig up 1 of each motif part (and any duplicates) themselves, which means that if you buy anything, you buy maps, not motifs. Buying the actual motifs is for people who either (a) don't care about antiquity hunting completion, or (b) want them for a second toon.

It was bad enough going through 20 Khenarthi's Roost maps and getting duplicate leads for all *three* of the Ancestral High Elf motifs from that zone that I already had, and then taking another 15 maps to get the fourth lead which was the one I actually needed to complete the set. Because getting duplicates when there's even four diggable motifs in a zone - rather than the two in every other zone, on account of the Aldmeri Dominion having one double-sized "newbie" zone rather than two smaller newbie zones - is already frustrating.

When there's fourteen diggable motifs in just one zone (as with the Ancestral Reach), it's even worse... and the Ancestral Reach motifs, although all diggable in the Reach, still come from three or four different types of map (Western Skyrim, The Reach, and Blackreach - I can't remember whether Blackreach maps are further split, into Blackreach Greymoor and Blackreach Arkthzand): so there's at least four times the number of maps.

And then you have Blackwood, where there is only the one zone to even obtain the leads in, as well as to actually dig them.

I buy the motifs if they are cheap and then sell them if I find more copies while digging up maps to complete the antiquities collection. No point in waiting to buy them of you are doing so for antiquities. You can do both and make some gold along the way. Just the base game ancestral motifs made me a few million gold in sales off spending maybe 100k on maps.

Katahdin

The people with lucky RNG will never agree that the insane grind for most of the playerbase is unreasonable because they are making millions off being lucky.

I refuse to play 500,000 gold for ONE page of a 14 page motif.

Ill give my money to ZoS instead which is what this rarity is supposed to do, make you give up in frustration and buy it from the crown store. But when I can farm real money in the game called life and make what it costs in the crown store in 5% of the time it takes me to grind the gold in game or 1% of the time it takes to grind all 14 pages, I consider it money well spent because I can enjoy other aspects of the game instead of doing nothing but farming gold or hopelessly farming motif pages that never drop.

jle30303

If there was one change I'd make:

Treasure chests in any given zone should have a greater chance of giving a treasure map *for that zone*, and a lesser chance of giving a treasure map for a different zone.

Not a certainty. But, say, something like "50% chance of a map from this zone, 50% chance of a map from any other zone in the game". So you have a reasonable chance of getting treasure maps from the zone you are currently in, while in that zone, if you can search for treasure chests.

Also, do as is actually advertised and make the motif leads have a chance of showing up when digging for other antiquities. That is, allow them to show up as "bonus loot" while excavating an antiquity, along with all these Indeko Runes and Ornate Chamber Pots.

Kadraeus

This is why I honestly wish they just replaced the original motifs. The original ones look super out of place compared to everything else. 90% of the motifs now look like they're from an entirely different game from the original ones. I know the point is to make money, but I see updating the base game motifs as making the base game more appealing to new players. I know people who either tried the game or saw images of it when it came out, and the armor was definitely a turn-off for some people. I imagine that's part of the reason buying the game now often means you get one of the DLCs with it too. The DLCs look way better in every way, so they're a much better introduction to what this game offers than the base game is at this point.

I know people would probably complain about the motifs being changed (even though I think it would be stupid to complain about a change like this since the motifs are pretty much the same despite having much better normal maps and models), but I think improving the base game is worth it since it's still a HUGE portion of the game. But I do understand the decision to add them as options instead of replacing them for fear of backlash. Still, like someone else said, they're just visual remakes of low-level armor. It's insane that they're as rare as they are.

trackdemon5512

@Kadraeus

In regards to updating motifs, it will never happen

ZOS_MattFiror
September 2018
Staff Post
I know there’s more than a little bit of concern from our Xbox One X and PlayStation 4 Pro players who take advantage of the HDR modes on those consoles. For those that are unaware, HDR is a graphics mode that allows the game client to far more subtly render colors to make scenes with a lot of detail almost lifelike. It is really cool and makes ESO look amazing, especially in scenes where there is a lot of color and detail, like sunsets. In the latest update, we made a change that altered the way HDR support in ESO works by “normalizing” lighting and color values, which led many players who use HDR believe it makes the game look bland.

The explanation for what happened here is illuminating, as it gives some insight into our development process, especially how we treat bugs vs. how we treat new art assets and shaders.

On the development side, we have a strict policy to never change art assets once they have been in the live game, except – and this is important – if they are obviously “wrong”. Think bad animations, shoulder pads clipping through armor, weapons hanging too far off a character model’s hip – that kind of thing. This “no change” policy has been in effect since the Redguard Female Armor Debacle of 2015. This was where we updated the visuals of one type of Redguard Female armor and pushed it live without thinking of the consequences of players who liked the way it looked and had been using it for over a year. This caused a lot of – very much merited – criticism from players that liked the older style much better. That’s when we started our “no change” policy. Even if we think an asset needs to updated because it doesn’t fit ESO’s established art style or the artist responsible thinks they could have done better, we no longer change live assets because players are used to the way the game and their characters look, and that is more important than what WE think.

Kadraeus

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

@Kadraeus

In regards to updating motifs, it will never happen

ZOS_MattFiror
September 2018
Staff Post
I know there’s more than a little bit of concern from our Xbox One X and PlayStation 4 Pro players who take advantage of the HDR modes on those consoles. For those that are unaware, HDR is a graphics mode that allows the game client to far more subtly render colors to make scenes with a lot of detail almost lifelike. It is really cool and makes ESO look amazing, especially in scenes where there is a lot of color and detail, like sunsets. In the latest update, we made a change that altered the way HDR support in ESO works by “normalizing” lighting and color values, which led many players who use HDR believe it makes the game look bland.

The explanation for what happened here is illuminating, as it gives some insight into our development process, especially how we treat bugs vs. how we treat new art assets and shaders.

On the development side, we have a strict policy to never change art assets once they have been in the live game, except – and this is important – if they are obviously “wrong”. Think bad animations, shoulder pads clipping through armor, weapons hanging too far off a character model’s hip – that kind of thing. This “no change” policy has been in effect since the Redguard Female Armor Debacle of 2015. This was where we updated the visuals of one type of Redguard Female armor and pushed it live without thinking of the consequences of players who liked the way it looked and had been using it for over a year. This caused a lot of – very much merited – criticism from players that liked the older style much better. That’s when we started our “no change” policy. Even if we think an asset needs to updated because it doesn’t fit ESO’s established art style or the artist responsible thinks they could have done better, we no longer change live assets because players are used to the way the game and their characters look, and that is more important than what WE think.

I'm aware of the policy. I still wish they'd do it. Just be glad I'm not running ZOS, because I definitely would've changed the motifs regardless of what fans want :P

redlink1979

jaws343 wrote: »

I see them as a long term goal. Not a must have in month 1. (...)

^^ Yup

CGPsaint

The Ancestral pages are a big no for me. My RNG is already a point of contention, but locking motifs behind a triple dose of RNG is just too far. First you need to farm for the maps, or pay 20K+ on guild traders. Then you need to go dig that ish up and hope that you get a lead. And then to top it off, you had better hope that you get a lead that is not a duplicate. I have 9 of the 14 pages for Ancestral Reach and after my 6th or 7th dagger lead, I noped out of that nonsense. I used to enjoy ESO, but the newer content just feels lazy and rushed, and everything feels like more of a grind. I want to enjoy the game, not feel like I'm working a second job.

Blacknight841

With a little math you get…. You have a 1/36 chance of pulling a treasure map for the correct zone from loot, of which you have a 1/14 chance of pulling the right page, IF you actually get the lead. If you assume you have a 50% chance of pulling a lead, meaning every 2 treasure maps gives you a lead…. Then you have a 0.09% chance of getting the desired lead, or 1/1008 chance.

This is assuming a 50% success rate in getting a lead from a treasure map.

If you are a little more realistic and you say that 1/10 chests gives a treasure map, and of those treasure maps, you have a 1/5 chance of getting a lead. Then you have a 1/25,200 (0.004%) chance of opening a random chest, that gives you a treasure map, that grants you a lead, that allows you to excavate the right motif chapter.

To put it into perspective, you actually have a higher chance (.005%) of pulling exactly the radiant apex mount you want out of each crown crate.

Happy farming!

trackdemon5512

Blacknight841 wrote: »

With a little math you get…. You have a 1/36 chance of pulling a treasure map for the correct zone from loot, of which you have a 1/14 chance of pulling the right page, IF you actually get the lead. If you assume you have a 50% chance of pulling a lead, meaning every 2 treasure maps gives you a lead…. Then you have a 0.09% chance of getting the desired lead, or 1/1008 chance.

This is assuming a 50% success rate in getting a lead from a treasure map.

There are 101+ motifs in the game. If you get a master writ nowadays you have a 1% chance you get one for a motif you know roughly. Multiply that by roughly 14 for being able to craft a specific piece. Multiply that by 9 for having the trait researched. Multiply that by at least another 9 or so that you have enough traits researched that you can even craft it.

Can someone give me a number there?

Ppl are complaining about this motif when the chances for being able to craft a gear master writ have now gotten ridiculously smaller and no one says anything about that.

Blacknight841

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Blacknight841 wrote: »

With a little math you get…. You have a 1/36 chance of pulling a treasure map for the correct zone from loot, of which you have a 1/14 chance of pulling the right page, IF you actually get the lead. If you assume you have a 50% chance of pulling a lead, meaning every 2 treasure maps gives you a lead…. Then you have a 0.09% chance of getting the desired lead, or 1/1008 chance.

This is assuming a 50% success rate in getting a lead from a treasure map.

There are 101+ motifs in the game. If you get a master writ nowadays you have a 1% chance you get one for a motif you know roughly. Multiply that by roughly 14 for being able to craft a specific piece. Multiply that by 9 for having the trait researched. Multiply that by at least another 9 or so that you have enough traits researched that you can even craft it.

Can someone give me a number there?

Ppl are complaining about this motif when the chances for being able to craft a gear master writ have now gotten ridiculously smaller and no one says anything about that.

I actually was thinking about this the other day when I was banking the 10 or so ancient motif style writs I found for dirt cheap. I haven’t done the math on it yet though. But the simple fact that you are more likely to get a radiant apex out of a crown crate, than getting the right lead from a chest is nonsense.

ApoAlaia

Out of hand is rather fitting.

Blackwood was released over a month ago; from release I have been performing activities that can yield treasure maps for at least two hours every day.

So far I have found 11 Blackwood treasure maps and purchased 10, from those 1 in 5 so far have yielded a lead.

Is hair-tearing levels of frustration what this 'system' begets and I haven't even encountered the last layer of RNG yet: repeat pages.

I wish I could find something constructive to say about it but when one's time is regarded with this level of contempt not even Saint Jiub could accomplish such thing.

All I can say is 'please relent'. You can only mess with people's brain's reward system so much before harm starts occurring.

Faulgor

cmetzger93 wrote: »

It’s not about wanting it instantly it’s about having a way to farm them reliably. Ancestral motifs are the only type of motif in the game where you have to go through RNG multiple times to get a drop. RNG for map, RNG for lead drop and RNG for a lead you don’t already have. Yeah you could buy treasure maps but it’s still layers of RNG, you could work on these for months or even years and still be nowhere near completion.

Not having a reliable source of treasure maps is really the main issue for me, because right now the only source is from guild traders. And if I have to buy the maps, I might just as well buy the motif itself.
Where is the gameplay?

Nestor

Like all Motifs, just wait for the two events we have each year that drop motifs in the Rewards coffers.

Don't even need to do top tier writs for these either. Run all your alts through each day, and shop the guild stores in the latter half of these events and you will have the complete motifs. You can also offer to trade motifs in zone chat. The known motifs I find I sell. It is how I keep up with my motif collections.

ApoAlaia

Nestor wrote: »

Like all Motifs, just wait for the two events we have each year that drop motifs in the Rewards coffers.

Don't even need to do top tier writs for these either. Run all your alts through each day, and shop the guild stores in the latter half of these events and you will have the complete motifs. You can also offer to trade motifs in zone chat. The known motifs I find I sell. It is how I keep up with my motif collections.

AFAIK antiquity motifs are not part of the leveled lists of these coffers.

I'm not sure I follow the second paragraph, might be the language barrier; although I can do the reading part I fail at comprehension.

kringled_1

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Like all Motifs, just wait for the two events we have each year that drop motifs in the Rewards coffers.

Don't even need to do top tier writs for these either. Run all your alts through each day, and shop the guild stores in the latter half of these events and you will have the complete motifs. You can also offer to trade motifs in zone chat. The known motifs I find I sell. It is how I keep up with my motif collections.

AFAIK antiquity motifs are not part of the leveled lists of these coffers.

I'm not sure I follow the second paragraph, might be the language barrier; although I can do the reading part I fail at comprehension.

That is correct, none of the Ancestral motifs (Reach, High Elf, Nord, Orc) was in the Jubilee rewards this year. The only other event that drops more than one zones worth of motifs that I can think of is Undaunted and that's typically limited to DLC dungeon motifs.