There will Never be an ESO 2

Iccotak

https://www.ign.com/articles/eso2-zenimax-online-studio-head-talks-possibility-of-elder-scrolls-online-sequel-ign-unfiltered

EDIT: Full Episode - https://www.ign.com/articles/bringing-the-elder-scrolls-online-matt-firor-ign-unfiltered-60

"...as long as there are people who log in every day and play, there's no reason to do a 'Version 2.'"

When asked whether ESO might one day become unable to be updated, forcing either a rebuilt version "from the ground up" or a sequel, Firor said, "We're obviously doing our job right if you haven't noticed, but we're tearing down the engine, one room at a time, all the time." Firor laughed. "So the engine right now is much different from when we launched. It could never have scaled to what we do now. So we're constantly, behind the scenes, making it better."

According to Firor, that stream of updates have made a big impact on ESO. "The game, [as it is] right now, wouldn't run on the... last-generation base consoles. At one point we had to stop adding new animations to the game for six months because it would just run out of memory on those devices if we had. But they're a core part of our community, so we're going to support them."

Although these updates introduced new bugs, Firor says, the team was able to fix them, allowing them to stay true to their goal to "keep the game relevant and looking fantastic." As far as "ESO 2" is concerned, Firor responded, "It's like... when is Netflix 2 going to launch? Right? We're a service... that people log into every day and play. As long as they're doing that, there's no reason to do a 'Version 2.'"

Upon further reflection, Firor said players have effectively already gotten several sequels to ESO. "In fact, in many ways, Orsinium, which is the DLC we did back in 2015... that really was Version 2, and then Morrowind was Version 3... so every year, we're doing a new chapter update. But those chapters aren't just new content, there's also a lot of tech, behind the scenes, which keeps it running and makes it relevant."

---

ArchMikem

Well if they really are rebuilding the Engine little by little every update then there really is no need for a whole new game, at least for the near future. They may consider it once the map is filled in and there's no real place left to hold a standard Chapter zone. (Before anyone says, no I don't believe the continents of Akavir/Atmora/Pyandonea etc will ever be touched. Some locations in Elder Scrolls I'm sure were meant to always remain mysterious.)

Chips_Ahoy

Where is the part of the interview that says There will Never be an ESO 2?

the classic interview to advertise with the classic answers that people want to hear, only a fool would believe that.

Marcus_Aurelius

Usually new tech means better things, here things are deteriorating every time new content is added.
Groups reduced to 12 for performance problems, lag everywhere, bugs not being patched up .....

I really don't see the engine getting better, sometime I think they live in their own world.

Yormula

Depends. If they want to stay with the current system long-term, which I'd wholeheartedly support, there is the need for a whole new customer relations system.

With long-lasting games the prime point of engagement for a not insignificant share of players moves to long-term development, and that is out of the window if any technical hurdles along the way cannot be resolved.

In the current state I do believe that the whole support/customer relations system is actively detrimental to an otherwise great game.

Got a beta-old character sitting right here accidentally corrupted and locked by support while trying to fix an unrelated issue, since then apologies and EMCON, 9 months old ticket. Why would you keep playing smth if your character can turn to dust at any moment? Well, answer might be 3-fold:
- character won't turn to dust (not the case sadly);
- appeal to a playerbase that likes starting from scratch for fresh challenges (league-type gameplay, not really compatible with the current model);
- release 2.0 every now and then to try to elicit a novelty response.

danno8

Makes sense in regards to Orsinium. You could really notice a jump in the quality of the environment with that DLC.

Honestly it make way more sense to simply upgrade your current engine over time since you already have so many assets ready to go and so much work already put into it.

Being tied to consoles can be a little disappointing though. Especially PS4 and XBOX One. Such low memory amounts to crummy textures for the foreseeable future, maybe forever.

zaria

ArchMikem wrote: »

Well if they really are rebuilding the Engine little by little every update then there really is no need for a whole new game, at least for the near future. They may consider it once the map is filled in and there's no real place left to hold a standard Chapter zone. (Before anyone says, no I don't believe the continents of Akavir/Atmora/Pyandonea etc will ever be touched. Some locations in Elder Scrolls I'm sure were meant to always remain mysterious.)

This, ESO in itself is solid enough and they done lots of major changes over the years.
Making an 2 will split the player base, closing down 1 will make loads leave.
Why not upgrade instead.
More likely they explore Akavir/Atmora/Pyandonea than making an 2.
One idea is to make an new version of old zones on top of the old as an chapter.
But this require you to do the zone first before starting part 2, a bit like an 2 dungeon you face new enemies, but here going 2 first will not make any sense, however this will be close to 2030 who is an time I don't thing it make much sense to sell chapters to new players and it would be an cheaper way to create content.

Elsonso

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

I really don't see the engine getting better, sometime I think they live in their own world.

Yeah, I tend to agree with this. I am surprised by Firor's statement that they are "tearing down the engine, one room at a time, all the time" (Wondering when they are going to put those rooms back in the game... LOL )

It seems to me that they keep running into the limits of the engine and pulling back. Blackwood seems like a perfect example of places where they could have done something, but pulled back due for technical reasons. Starting with Greymoor, the major cities are separate spaces because the game cannot handle them being part of the zone. That sort of thing.

tenryuta

danno8 wrote: »

Makes sense in regards to Orsinium. You could really notice a jump in the quality of the environment with that DLC.

Honestly it make way more sense to simply upgrade your current engine over time since you already have so many assets ready to go and so much work already put into it.

Being tied to consoles can be a little disappointing though. Especially PS4 and XBOX One. Such low memory amounts to crummy textures for the foreseeable future, maybe forever.

maybe they work on new tech and wait for the previous gen console to phase out, then comes bigger 'upgrade' patch with new bells and whistles... just wish they added climbing and remove invisible walls in many places, that would help so much

zaria

Elsonso wrote: »

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

I really don't see the engine getting better, sometime I think they live in their own world.

Yeah, I tend to agree with this. I am surprised by Firor's statement that they are "tearing down the engine, one room at a time, all the time" (Wondering when they are going to put those rooms back in the game... LOL )

It seems to me that they keep running into the limits of the engine and pulling back. Blackwood seems like a perfect example of places where they could have done something, but pulled back due for technical reasons. Starting with Greymoor, the major cities are separate spaces because the game cannot handle them being part of the zone. That sort of thing.

This simply be an issue of wanting to have more players in the zone while limited the number in the city.
Note that this is an client issue, having to load all the motifs, costumes, pet and mounts takes an toll on potatoes.
yes its server issues in Cyrodil during large battles, not overland.
Remember that ESO started with an 32 bit client but is now 64 bit only.

Elsonso

zaria wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

I really don't see the engine getting better, sometime I think they live in their own world.

Yeah, I tend to agree with this. I am surprised by Firor's statement that they are "tearing down the engine, one room at a time, all the time" (Wondering when they are going to put those rooms back in the game... LOL )

It seems to me that they keep running into the limits of the engine and pulling back. Blackwood seems like a perfect example of places where they could have done something, but pulled back due for technical reasons. Starting with Greymoor, the major cities are separate spaces because the game cannot handle them being part of the zone. That sort of thing.

This simply be an issue of wanting to have more players in the zone while limited the number in the city.
Note that this is an client issue, having to load all the motifs, costumes, pet and mounts takes an toll on potatoes.
yes its server issues in Cyrodil during large battles, not overland.
Remember that ESO started with an 32 bit client but is now 64 bit only.

Actually, I think it is that the complexity of cities like Solitude and Leyawiin simply exceeds the tolerances that they have for the game. You are likely correct that it is a client thing, but that is just pointing fingers at the problem. It does not change the fact that the problem exists, or that they control this is through segregation. This is not likely to change as long as they continue to support doorstops.

Sarannah

Good, making an mmo2 is the worst thing that could happen to any mmo. MMO's are not like regular games, if only players would understand this.

MMO's are meant to evolve, not to get replaced. Not to mention, noone would spend money on either game anymore. As making a second version, would imply there would be even more versions after the second version. Meaning all spendings on any of the versions would become worthless.

Dysprosium

I"m good with them continuing to build, add, improve along the way.

Elsonso

tenryuta wrote: »

maybe they work on new tech and wait for the previous gen console to phase out, then comes bigger 'upgrade' patch with new bells and whistles... just wish they added climbing and remove invisible walls in many places, that would help so much

It wouldn't be an Elder Scrolls game, at least a modern one, if we weren't spamming the jump key to get across every small rock and climb up terrain. The jump key is the second most important key in the game, behind "forward".

zaria wrote: »

Remember that ESO started with an 32 bit client but is now 64 bit only.

I forgot to comment on this.

Updating to 64-bit allows them to use more memory, and they are, but have they really leveraged that to the fullest extent?

Replacing DX9 was wonderful news, and they talked about all the things they could do, but I know they could do more than what they talked about. Are they even thinking about this?

My metric for "ESO 2.0" is when they finally update the skeletons, animation, models, and textures of the characters and mobs to eliminate the limitations that DX9 imposed on the game. When they do that, ESO will be like a new game.

Danikat

Sarannah wrote: »

Good, making an mmo2 is the worst thing that could happen to any mmo. MMO's are not like regular games, if only players would understand this.

MMO's are meant to evolve, not to get replaced. Not to mention, noone would spend money on either game anymore. As making a second version, would imply there would be even more versions after the second version. Meaning all spendings on any of the versions would become worthless.

That's what I was thinking. There have been MMOs which have gotten sequels but it's usually because they want to do something dramatically different, not because it's been a few years and if it was a single player game it would be time to rehash it with slightly better graphics.

NeKryXe

Most new games today are getting colorless and dark. I'm keeping paying this and playing this because I don't like most new games. So I'm very ok with no version 2 that will probably be another duotoned dark crap like most games now. I'm really happy with this game surviving the way it is. In fact I still enjoy mostly all zones released before 2019.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

I wouldn't want an ESO 2 anyway. All the time I have put into my characters would essentially be gone. I'd rather they just continue with ESO and maybe even reworking old zones eventually. I wouldn't mind new stories within the original zones.

mikemacon

I should hope not.

There is PLENTY of space to continue to expand in the game world, without venturing into "verboten" areas like (perhaps) Atmora and Akavir (though i don't actually think those are in fact off-limits).

There's the entire under ground of Tamriel, and not all of it even needs to be Dwemer.

There's entire planes of Oblivion, and extensions to existing planes (I doubt very strongly that, for instance, what we've seen of Coldharbour in the base game comprises the entirety of Coldharbour), demi-planes, and other assorted weirdness.

You don't even need to travel to other continents to find more space to expand into/explore; there are likely many archipelagos, some with large islands that don't approach "continent" status.

Etc., etc., etc.

This game has a vast amount of potential in it.

And for the record, making an "ESO 2" is about as exciting a proposition as making a "WoW 2" would be - i.e., not very.

mikemacon

And as far as "breaking lore" is concerned with potentially going to places like the remnants of Yokuda, Akavir, Atmora, etc.; remember that we're in the Interregnum period. Effectively a Dark Ages to later Tamriel - i.e., "dark" because few written records remain of the time we're adventuring in by the Third Era and beyond.

Literally anything can happen that is effectively forgotten by the time of the Third Era - without needing to resort to "dragon breaks" (though that's also still a viable storytelling/continuity option).

Iccotak

Sarannah wrote: »

Good, making an mmo2 is the worst thing that could happen to any mmo. MMO's are not like regular games, if only players would understand this.

MMO's are meant to evolve, not to get replaced. Not to mention, noone would spend money on either game anymore. As making a second version, would imply there would be even more versions after the second version. Meaning all spendings on any of the versions would become worthless.

Take a look at Destiny 2 - by all measures we consider it an unnecessary sequel and it would have been better if Bungie kept evolving Destiny

This is why Bungie decided to stick with D2 rather than make D3

---

EDIT: I play D2 and enjoy it, but the game had to go through unnecessary growing pains that D1 already made. D2 had to earn the love of fans all over again - and no one was happy about the idea of losing all their progress or a "Clean Slate".

I would have loved if Bungie had ported D1 to PC and just continued that game. However, Bungie knows this which is why they are bringing D1 content into D2 as refreshed content or legacy content.

Cireous

Now, if they would just update those horrible Base game Mage's Guild robes to something more modern, we would have no need for an ESO 2.

Hymzir

It's market spiel, as is about 99% of everything Firor says in public. He's just projecting confidence and trying to entice new players to invest in ESO. "No point to wait for ESO 2, 'cause the original is here to stay! At least as long as people pay for it."

And that is the key point to note, they will continue milking this ride as long as people are paying for it. So obviously they will not think about 2.0 while people still throw money at the old model.

But... Things change, and nothing lasts forever. The real question is: How long is ESO profitable, and profitable enough to justify the expense of running it? It isn't enough that they make a profit, they need to make enough profit to justify the amount of money they have tied up in this thing. It's all about margins.

Furthermore, there really is no real reason to believe that mk.2 will roll out anytime before TES6 happens. Every Elder Scroll game has retconned the world, set a new tone and done whatever it thought to be coolest at that time, and who knows how TES6 will switch things up, and what will be the "official tone" of Tamriel at that point.

And since we now know, that Starfield is still year and a half away, the earliest for the next installment of the main series is gonna be in 2026. Perhaps as late as 2028. And then it will take a year or two for the latest TES to become the standard by which all things Elder Scrolls are measured. So... Do not expect ESO 2 before 2028 at least, with 2030 release being a more reasonable time frame.

Then there is the whole thing with graphics. I suppose ESO is still decent in terms of graphics, but for how long? Tech improves over time, as do peoples expectations. Sure, graphics are not the biggest deal in MMOs, but it's not like anything is acceptable. There is always some level of minimum. And this is even more true with new players. And ESO does not have a cartoony aesthetic that gives room to forgive that sort of thing. It aims at a realistic look, and that means that it doesn't age as well as some other games.And it's not something they can just upgrade on the fly. In addition to incorporating the new tech, they will face a point where all the old assets are simply not up to modern standards. And updating it all is a colossal expenditure of money and time.

And integration new tech... Well, the engine does not have the best reputation on that front. Nor is it exactly stable thing either, or a system that is know for it's smooth running. At some point, the thing will become too bloated to be worth the trouble. It will make much more sense to just start with a clean slate. With lessons learned from the first iteration, and with allowances made for all the systems that MMO players have grown accustomed for a game such as ESO to have. And to build a more robust core on more modern architecture.

But even bigger issue, is the ever accumulating amount of catch up that new players will face. There will come a point where getting into the game will be way too much of a bother for anyone to worry about. And Skyrim will be so far in the past, that it wont generate new fans for the IP itself. They will just play and invest in some trendier and more current live service thing. There might still be enough old timers around at that point, to justify keeping the lights on for several more years, but development of new stuff will stop at some point. It just wont offer as good margins as developing some brand new stuff to sell to a wider audience. And the new stuff wont come with all the baggage of the old one, and can benefit from all the improved tech that will come available in the future.

MMOs are a fickle market. So many have tried and failed. And ESO would've joined the heap of failed MMOs long time ago without it's IP. It did manage to recover and improve over time, and become a serious player in the field of MMOs. And I think it still has several years of life in it. Especially due to the IP. But it wont last forever, and at some point a new version will come out. As long as the main IP has value enough to merit it. But who knows... With the track record Bethesda has had as of late, TES6 might kill the IP for good, and with it any realistic chances of getting ESO 2. Only time will tell.

Sagetim

Rebuilding the engine in every update and breaking part of it in every update as well

mikemacon

Iccotak wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Good, making an mmo2 is the worst thing that could happen to any mmo. MMO's are not like regular games, if only players would understand this.

MMO's are meant to evolve, not to get replaced. Not to mention, noone would spend money on either game anymore. As making a second version, would imply there would be even more versions after the second version. Meaning all spendings on any of the versions would become worthless.

Take a look at Destiny 2 - by all measures we consider it an unnecessary sequel and it would have been better if Bungie kept evolving Destiny

This is why Bungie decided to stick with D2 rather than make D3

BINGO.

priestnall.andrewrwb17_ESO

I just want to swim in the rivers, lakes and oceans like a beautiful fish.

BoloBoffin

ESO is the Ship of Theseus.

tim99

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

I wouldn't want an ESO 2 anyway. All the time I have put into my characters would essentially be gone. I'd rather they just continue with ESO and maybe even reworking old zones eventually. I wouldn't mind new stories within the original zones.

this

Dagre2

other than guild wars 1 into guild wars 2, i haven't seen any mmorpg style games where it would make sense to make another instead of just 'upgrading' or changing the one you currently have.

Hymzir wrote: »

But even bigger issue, is the ever accumulating amount of catch up that new players will face. There will come a point where getting into the game will be way too much of a bother for anyone to worry about. And Skyrim will be so far in the past, that it wont generate new fans for the IP itself. They will just play and invest in some trendier and more current live service thing. There might still be enough old timers around at that point, to justify keeping the lights on for several more years, but development of new stuff will stop at some point. It just wont offer as good margins as developing some brand new stuff to sell to a wider audience. And the new stuff wont come with all the baggage of the old one, and can benefit from all the improved tech that will come available in the future.

only those that are only focused on end game. any TES fan will likely have an enjoyable journey to the end game instead of obsessing about end game from the day they start. obviously i can only speak for myself and those i know, but in no way did i ever start playing eso just to rush through to the end. I haven't been playing that long and i still have hundreds of hours ahead of me before i even consider starting the typical mmorpg end game thing. this will be even more true to new players that have never even stepped foot in an mmorpg type game before.

as for the visuals, they're pretty good in eso. the style gives itself a lot more time before they have to adjust and they wouldnt' be the first mmorpg type to add higher resolution textures to the game.

i wouldnt' generalize new players. there's just as many gamers out there that prefer gameplay than there are that obsessed over visuals and i'd say there's more that enjoy the journey than obsess over end game, especially new players that haven't been tainted by end game yet.

that said, a new player may be more inclined to jump into the new thing rather than the old thing but would it be worth it to put a massive amount of resources into a new mmorpg over adding more to a current one? if it was i'd say there's quite a few companies out there that would have done it by now. guild wars 1 certainly qualifies as one that made the right decision releasing 2, but something like wow? rift? i wouldn't even consider a second mmorpg. eso? probably not, while i'd jump all over a new TES single/coop game. new shiny graphics wouldn't draw me into it. graphics are the last thing i consider when it comes to gaming, that's what tv is for. then again, i'm from the atari days and played a MUD for over 2 decades, so what do i know.

my bet is, a new TES singleplayer/coop(lets hope) game would draw in more folks than an eso2

ArchMikem

Elsonso wrote: »

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

I really don't see the engine getting better, sometime I think they live in their own world.

Yeah, I tend to agree with this. I am surprised by Firor's statement that they are "tearing down the engine, one room at a time, all the time" (Wondering when they are going to put those rooms back in the game... LOL )

It seems to me that they keep running into the limits of the engine and pulling back. Blackwood seems like a perfect example of places where they could have done something, but pulled back due for technical reasons. Starting with Greymoor, the major cities are separate spaces because the game cannot handle them being part of the zone. That sort of thing.

Actually that's not entirely true. A little bit of out of bounds exploring back in Greymoor revealed the "instance" of Solitude was actually still in the overworld map. In truth they created a copy of Solitude and placed it WAY out in the very Southeast corner of the zone map, far from the boundary, but still in the same instance. The doors to Solitude just teleport you there.

Makes me wonder if Leyawiin and Markarth are exactly the same, and there's copies of the cities way out of bounds somewhere.

trackdemon5512

ArchMikem wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

I really don't see the engine getting better, sometime I think they live in their own world.

Yeah, I tend to agree with this. I am surprised by Firor's statement that they are "tearing down the engine, one room at a time, all the time" (Wondering when they are going to put those rooms back in the game... LOL )

It seems to me that they keep running into the limits of the engine and pulling back. Blackwood seems like a perfect example of places where they could have done something, but pulled back due for technical reasons. Starting with Greymoor, the major cities are separate spaces because the game cannot handle them being part of the zone. That sort of thing.

Actually that's not entirely true. A little bit of out of bounds exploring back in Greymoor revealed the "instance" of Solitude was actually still in the overworld map. In truth they created a copy of Solitude and placed it WAY out in the very Southeast corner of the zone map, far from the boundary, but still in the same instance. The doors to Solitude just teleport you there.

Makes me wonder if Leyawiin and Markarth are exactly the same, and there's copies of the cities way out of bounds somewhere.

Likely. Great way to cut down on having to render and actively track players in the city that you normally would not see.

As they said in the article the game as it is now basically couldn’t run on base consoles. I’d say around the time of Summerset is where it got hard and Dragonhold ultimately was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

Those on console remember that as the ultimate blue screen patch that led to Greymoor being unable for preorder on PS4. Since the Dragonhold graphic adjustments player models don’t fully load in unless you’re staring at them for a fixed time and other player mounts/pets are all low resolution unless you’re in a private house.

That apparently all ends tomorrow with Console Enhanced for next gen.

Alucardo

Dysprosium wrote: »

I"m good with them continuing to build, add, improve along the way.

That's great and all, but the experience in Cyrodiil is going backwards, not improving.