One Speed in Dungeons

Girl_Number8

Varana wrote: »

I find it interesting that in these threads, it's always the slower players that get told to make their own group.

How about speedrunners form their own groups, so they can dash through the dungeon without annoying team members asking to slow down?
Shouldn't be too hard to find other likeminded people - it's the usual recommendation to others, so they should be able to do it themselves.
Or maybe it's too time-consuming and tedious to find four similarly egoistic people (and - gods beware - interact with them! the horror!) so they just use the queue? The irony.

It was sound advice, so they have a better gaming experience overall.

Randoms are random....it would be foolish to think you’re always going to get that perfect group. If the OP is having a problem, they have to do something that is better for them.

Most people are in guilds for that very reason.

Abigail

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Oreyn_Bearclaw

HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Running speed in dungeons is capped. It’s capped everywhere. A magic character can certainly build to be at the speed cap, but to be honest, I am guessing that is not the biggest problem.

Running speed is not the problem: the problem is limited [exhausted] Stamina. To provide heals and buffs and shields and purges takes a generous level of Max Magicka and Magicka Regen and Spell Damage and Spell Crit. Of course, a healer could raise Stamina and Stamina regen; but that means lowered abilities to heal and buff. And, of course, my poor healer can be heard panting on the audio (on my HD 650 headphones) when Stamina hits zero. Sometime I imagine an audio track: "Please! Don't leave me here with this mob!!!"

@HumbleThaumaturge

I focused on running speed because that was the last line of the OP. "Highly recommend running speed in dungeons be capped." And pointed out, that speed IS capped. I even did a thread on this a little while back to better explain caps.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/566038/movement-and-mounted-speed-caps-explained#latest

I certainly understand that a magic player generally has a tougher time of getting to and maintaining maximum speed, but it is also certainly possible for a magic character to do it effectively. ALL 18 of my toons are at the speedcap out of combat with Ring of the Hunt (and all of them have one), and several of them are at the speed cap in combat, including some of my magic toons. Heck my crafter is at the speed cap without even pressing sprint. My PVP mag sorc can sprint for days at the speed cap (built that way on purpose) and still do a ton of damage. I built my PVE mag sorc to be able to quickly swap to max speed for solo farming (Vet Vateshran), so I could get from pull to pull faster. Never had issues with stamina. Point is, lots of ways to get there and adapt a build IF that is your goal. Whether is should be is of course another question.

I assume we are talking about Normal Groupfinder dungeons for the purposes of this discussion. A typical healer build has more than enough headroom to build for speed if they feel they need to. Most healers wildly over heal in terms of raw healing output, which is why more than half of a healers job in harder content is to provide other buffs. You could certainly sacrifice some of the other buffs for speed, because let's face it, if they are leaving the group behind, they dont need your buffs.

Certainly getting off track. The real point is that I don't think the speed cap is really the issue here. It is more of a mentality by certain players of not skipping certain encounters or leaving before they are done, and generally not being considerate of your other group members. That is why I made my original proposal on how to stop this behavior. If they lowered the speed cap by 50%, people would still run to the end. If they required you to kill all dungeon mobs before the group finder reward mail got sent, well, people would take the time to kill all the mobs.

Another solution would be to not have the final boss spawn until all parties were present. Might be an issue with solo players, but I am sure it could be worked out when groupfinder is used. But again, I dont think focusing on player speed as OP suggests is the right way to fix the issue of people speed running Random Normals.

Anachronia

Generally, I try to match the speed that the team is running at. If someone asks, such as for doing a quest or achievement, I will slow down. For non-veteran I sometimes even use the Ring of the Wild Hunt just to keep up with the team if everyone is rushing.
I see three speeds in group dungeons:

1. Questing
2. Fast
3. Backwards Long Jump

DarcyMardin

It’s a problem that has just gotten worse since the crystal reward was added to the daily random dungeons. I hate it too.

Ippokrates

Then get your green & red CP points, equip yourself with invisible pots and run with them. If anything goes wrong, you vanish and they have to cope with mobs they have aggro

sunspinner

Abigail wrote: »

Since 2014 I've largely eschewed group dungeons because I run magicka-based alts and they're slow. Before my brain tumor was removed in February I was continually disoriented when others in groups ran off and I lost sight of them.

Since February my confidence has returned AND I've put Wild Hunt rings on all my alts. Sadly, while I can usually keep up with 2 or 3 of the party, there's invariably one that runs off sometimes leaving us behind locked doors or leaving mobs behind that attack and slow us even more. I get it, some overpowered dipstick is running the random because he can't solo it and get the points. But that's one selfish SOB disregarding two or three people who've waited in queue for half an hour.

Highly recommend running speed in dungeons be capped.

If you're on the N/A servers, come find me. I run with my boyfriend and brother most of the time, and we tend to be slowpokes too (my brother is the runner but he doesn't run ahead and leave the mobs to kill us). I won't change my build to accommodate runners. All they're doing is boss looting and that's not how we enjoy dungeons, random or not (we don't normally do randoms for just that reason). I am usually on mostly after 5pm eastern till 10 or 11 or so and most of the day on weekends, and my guy is off and on most days. We're always happy to run them.

redspecter23

Varana wrote: »

I find it interesting that in these threads, it's always the slower players that get told to make their own group.

How about speedrunners form their own groups, so they can dash through the dungeon without annoying team members asking to slow down?
Shouldn't be too hard to find other likeminded people - it's the usual recommendation to others, so they should be able to do it themselves.
Or maybe it's too time-consuming and tedious to find four similarly egoistic people (and - gods beware - interact with them! the horror!) so they just use the queue? The irony.

If someone running fast came here and complained about those that are too slow, I'd tell them the exact same thing. The issue is that the fast player is doing exactly what they want and getting exactly what they want, even if nobody keeps up so they are less likely to consider it an issue. It's entirely selfish, but they don't tend to see that as a problem they need to adjust for.

What you will see is that issue, but phrased differently.

"I was carrying 3 noobs and got booted for NO REASON AT ALL"

or

"My group was so slow I had to pretty much solo it"

So the issue is potentially still there but hidden behind a somewhat different complaint.

Dagoth_Rac

Jeremy wrote: »

Abigail wrote: »

Since 2014 I've largely eschewed group dungeons because I run magicka-based alts and they're slow. Before my brain tumor was removed in February I was continually disoriented when others in groups ran off and I lost sight of them.

Since February my confidence has returned AND I've put Wild Hunt rings on all my alts. Sadly, while I can usually keep up with 2 or 3 of the party, there's invariably one that runs off sometimes leaving us behind locked doors or leaving mobs behind that attack and slow us even more. I get it, some overpowered dipstick is running the random because he can't solo it and get the points. But that's one selfish SOB disregarding two or three people who've waited in queue for half an hour.

Highly recommend running speed in dungeons be capped.

This is a modern trend symbolic of this new generation of gamers and infects all games, not just this on one. And many of those games don't even have run speed stats. So putting a speed cap wouldn't fix it. For some weird reason players these days just enjoy running through mobs. Don't ask me why.

Modern games have a lot of busy work they throw at the player. It doesn't seem weird at all that people would want to get it over with as fast as possible so they can move on to what they really want to do. Is it selfish behavior if other members of group are not playing that way? Yes. But not weird.

Jeremy

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Abigail wrote: »

Since 2014 I've largely eschewed group dungeons because I run magicka-based alts and they're slow. Before my brain tumor was removed in February I was continually disoriented when others in groups ran off and I lost sight of them.

Since February my confidence has returned AND I've put Wild Hunt rings on all my alts. Sadly, while I can usually keep up with 2 or 3 of the party, there's invariably one that runs off sometimes leaving us behind locked doors or leaving mobs behind that attack and slow us even more. I get it, some overpowered dipstick is running the random because he can't solo it and get the points. But that's one selfish SOB disregarding two or three people who've waited in queue for half an hour.

Highly recommend running speed in dungeons be capped.

This is a modern trend symbolic of this new generation of gamers and infects all games, not just this on one. And many of those games don't even have run speed stats. So putting a speed cap wouldn't fix it. For some weird reason players these days just enjoy running through mobs. Don't ask me why.

Modern games have a lot of busy work they throw at the player. It doesn't seem weird at all that people would want to get it over with as fast as possible so they can move on to what they really want to do. Is it selfish behavior if other members of group are not playing that way? Yes. But not weird.

I disagree.

I've seen groups who can slaughter "trash pools" in literally a few seconds. And they still do it, run through the mobs, and often suicide themselves at the boss when instead they could have just killed all the mobs in the time it takes them to raise back up to fight. So a lot of times it doesn't even save them time.

There is just some weird thing about running through mobs that this new generation of gamers enjoy. Don't ask me to explain it, because I can't. But I've seen enough to know it's not about being fast as possible, because I've seen them do it even when it makes the run longer. To reference other games (to show it's not isolated to ESO) I've seen groups on Final Fantasy 14 continuously run through mobs and die over and over instead of just killing them one group at a time and not die and complete the dungeon in a timely fashion. It's demented. They will literally wipe over and over and over again before they resort to killing one group at a time. lol

nryerson1025

Please keep in mind a lot of us have done these dungeons hundreds if not thousands of times. Just like it's selfish to rush through it with a new player, it's also selfish for a new player to expect experienced ones to wait around after each boss and loot each provisioning sack. Congratulations on your recovery and I wish OP the very best of health, however you're asking an entire community to double or triple the length of their "chores" so to speak. In education for instance, those with disabilities are separated from the others so their education isn't compromised. Would you propose to slow down a class syllabus, cut it down to a third of it's original length, to accommodate one or two people at the expense of dozens. Sorry but find your own friends

Abigail

nryerson1025 wrote: »

Please keep in mind a lot of us have done these dungeons hundreds if not thousands of times. Just like it's selfish to rush through it with a new player, it's also selfish for a new player to expect experienced ones to wait around after each boss and loot each provisioning sack. Congratulations on your recovery and I wish OP the very best of health, however you're asking an entire community to double or triple the length of their "chores" so to speak. In education for instance, those with disabilities are separated from the others so their education isn't compromised. Would you propose to slow down a class syllabus, cut it down to a third of it's original length, to accommodate one or two people at the expense of dozens. Sorry but find your own friends

I see your point, but I also see Karma; like today, when a speedster ran far ahead of three of us. We found him dead not once, but twice.

Folkb

Yeah its pretty lame how people want to race to the end. I just try and solo dungeons even if I die once or twice. It feels more immersive.

Alpheu5

Jeremy wrote: »

Abigail wrote: »

Since 2014 I've largely eschewed group dungeons because I run magicka-based alts and they're slow. Before my brain tumor was removed in February I was continually disoriented when others in groups ran off and I lost sight of them.

Since February my confidence has returned AND I've put Wild Hunt rings on all my alts. Sadly, while I can usually keep up with 2 or 3 of the party, there's invariably one that runs off sometimes leaving us behind locked doors or leaving mobs behind that attack and slow us even more. I get it, some overpowered dipstick is running the random because he can't solo it and get the points. But that's one selfish SOB disregarding two or three people who've waited in queue for half an hour.

Highly recommend running speed in dungeons be capped.

This is a modern trend symbolic of this new generation of gamers and infects all games, not just this on one. And many of those games don't even have run speed stats. So putting a speed cap wouldn't fix it. For some weird reason players these days just enjoy running through mobs. Don't ask me why.

This isn't a generation thing and it's getting old seeing people trying to spin it as one. It's the equivalent of saying cars were a bad idea because horseback riding and walking allowed you to take in the scenery.