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Overland Content is so Easy I lose interest
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DarcyMardin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It’s easy, I agree, but as someone who has started all over with 3 accounts and no CP, it’s not quite as easy for low-leveled characters, particularly if they are new to the game and don’t have a clue about a combat system that is not well explained.
I don’t lose interest in the stories, though, just because the overland quests aren’t difficult. Back in the early days when Doshia used to beat my ass constantly, I didn’t find that particularly fun. Different players like different aspects of gameplay.2 -
Daraklus✭✭✭✭I think people just need to accept the fact the overland content isn't meant for dps progression. It's meant for story play and new players.
Would you tell the same thing to a new player who find the game to be trivial and boring?
Or the same to people who'd like to get invested in a story but find it difficult just because of how easy everything it?We just had a poll about this.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/567984/its-time-to-make-this-game-more-challenging/p1
66% feel overland is fine the way it is.
A poll that came off as a joke, with options that sounded unreasonable. I'd hesitate to call that a "Smoking gun" about how a "Majority" think it's all fine and dandy.Add to that most players don’t even run normal dungeons much less have very good dps parses. I personally know one player who only makes wood elf magika healers and would never set foot in a dungeon. Even normal mode versions of the easiest dungeons scare her.
And she is not alone. I know players who just get to 50 and start over again, never really gaining any cp. Other people who just want to make RP characters that are completely non meta. Others who would not even think of attacking an Auridon wb unless they are in a group of over 12 people.
Pve overland is made for those types of people. People who are better at the game have EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE GAME!
There is no tourist mode trials, dungeons, or arenas. Don’t take away the one thing true casuals have.
Why should the game cater to them? Or at least, because those people exist, why does this mean we can't even have an optional setting to make it harder for the rest of us who want to make proper use of our characters outside of dungeons?
And here we are back to that "Go play dungeons forever" speech.. You know what? I hate dungeons, I don't want to spam dungeons and Arenas ad nauseum just because they stimulate me. I want to do quests and be stimulated while doing so. So give me Veteran Overland please, thank you.
Yes. It's the reason why me and my girlfriend enjoy playing games that have progression: For us to get better and stronger to kill things with greater efficiency. Why? Because it's fun.Why does the game NEED to teach players anything? Do you think players play video games only for some need to get better at it? Do you think players who want to get better at it don’t have paths to do exactly that?
It would be fun For Me. It is not my concern if other players have their "Fun sapped" if they decide to play on the Veteran setting.It’s a game, some people don’t want to get taught on how to get better at video games. They just want to have fun. A more difficult overland does not make these people better at it. It just saps their fun.
And that is no more "Selfish" than the claim that Overland is only for the Casual and the New.Edited by Daraklus on May 4, 2021 11:41PM3 -
Flamebait✭✭✭
Why does the game NEED to teach players anything? Do you think players play video games only for some need to get better at it? Do you think players who want to get better at it don’t have paths to do exactly that?
When I was growing up I had an uncle who insisted on teaching us the “right” way of playing board games like risk or monopoly. He sapped all the fun out of it, while the rest of us just wanted to play a game.
It’s a game, some people don’t want to get taught on how to get better at video games. They just want to have fun. A more difficult overland does not make these people better at it. It just saps their fun.
I am not saying it has to sit you down and make you play a certain way, but he game should explain basic mechanics of how things work somewhere in the game. If you don't want to use them that is fine, but having tutorial areas or missions is a much better system than saying absolutely nothing and expecting people to go to a content creators site in order to learn anything about how the game works. Also a fun fact I am on the side of overland being fine so yeah you might need to re-read a bit, I only think they need a system that teaches people somewhere in-game how the basics of the game work.
Regarding the immersion I mentioned earlier, I really doubt that the developers of the game give any kind of a care about me being immersed in this game, which will never happen, and never has with any game ever. I have however bought 3 crown houses and pay for ESO+ and that is the sole thing they care about in the very least.1 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭We just had a poll about this.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/567984/its-time-to-make-this-game-more-challenging/p1
66% feel overland is fine the way it is.
You just linked an example of really biased poll when you can even find ppl voting that content is fine only to write that they would like harder overland but dont want to vote in biased poll lol.
Do you even read the comments there?
66% voted for “Its fine the way it is”.
There were several other ways to vote.
People right now want to do dailies as fast as possible they don’t want more difficult overland.
Add to that most players don’t even run normal dungeons much less have very good dps parses. I personally know one player who only makes wood elf magika healers and would never set foot in a dungeon. Even normal mode versions of the easiest dungeons scare her.
And she is not alone. I know players who just get to 50 and start over again, never really gaining any cp. Other people who just want to make RP characters that are completely non meta. Others who would not even think of attacking an Auridon wb unless they are in a group of over 12 people.
Pve overland is made for those types of people. People who are better at the game have EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE GAME!
There is no tourist mode trials, dungeons, or arenas. Don’t take away the one thing true casuals have.
It is fine for people to enjoy overland as is, but overland is the vast majority of the game. Experienced players want to leave trials and dungeons to enjoy the new story content, but when every spec of narrative tension falls flat the second the main villain isn't protected by plot armor. That causes players like myself to think, why bother? Every npc harping about the end of the world is just to lazy to take care of the trash and I can't get invested in their stories no matter how well written they are. Add in how the laughably easy overland gives new players a poor impression of what ESO has to offer, and so poorly prepares them to do anything else in the game, and all it does is cause problems. Adding an option won't "Take away the one thing true casuals have," it will give experienced players the option to actually enjoy the story content and give casual players a place to learn rather than throwing them to the wolves only to cause friction in group content that we all know exist.
Overland is one and done. The only way to beat the “easy quest boss” (they aren’t for many people) a second time is to make a new character. Endgame vet trial players have repeatable difficult content for that reason.
Your claim is the vast majority of the hame is easy. So what? This is the domain of RPers, casuals and home decorators. And with the patch notes for 7.0.2 it looks like their dps just took another hit.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/572775/7-0-2-proc-set-changes-the-death-of-proc-sets-in-pve/p1
They don’t ask for much, stop making trying to make their lives worse.
Whose lives am I trying to make worse? An optional difficulty wouldn't make peoples lives worse. And saying "you guys have trials, stay there, the rest of the game isn't for you" is selfish. This game has stories, but they are stories I actively avoid not because they are poorly written, but because they aren't worth my time. I can't invest myself in a story when I know full well every single quest is nothing but running from point A to B listening to npcs wax on about how it's the end of the world. The overland is full of so much content but it is hard for many people who want to enjoy the content to actually enjoy it since every zone is treated as a poor tutorial area, no resistance and no lessons learned. Do you want to directly address any of the 3 main points about why having only an easy overland is an issue or do you want to just paint me as an enemy wanting to spoil other peoples time?
(Those points being, vets can't enjoy the stories, new players are put off by how simple the game is, new players learn nothing and are forced into groups before they can even become comfortable with how to play the game.)
An optional difficulty? Does this just happen for free? Do you think the fights are made in an afternoon by a single person? There are voice actors, people who run the recording equipment, the game directors, sound effect artists, the people in the HR department who keep track of this work... And we have not even gone into the actual programmers and their supporting staff yet.
More work on ANYTHING means something else gets cut for budget and time. So what gets cut to make your "Do it once and never see it again per character" vet encounter experience? Because something tells me they are not going to start making the trials shorter.
Do we make the storyline a bit shorter? The land mass a bit smaller? Do we do even less work on game stability? Adding one thing, means subtracting something else.1 -
FrozenskyeSoul ShrivenI like the argument that the new difficulty would be optional.
Until ZoS puts increased rewards into it because you just know thats whats at the heart of this matter, and then it becomes a ceiling vs floor fight.
2 -
Flamebait✭✭✭Whose lives am I trying to make worse? An optional difficulty wouldn't make peoples lives worse. And saying "you guys have trials, stay there, the rest of the game isn't for you" is selfish. This game has stories, but they are stories I actively avoid not because they are poorly written, but because they aren't worth my time. I can't invest myself in a story when I know full well every single quest is nothing but running from point A to B listening to npcs wax on about how it's the end of the world. The overland is full of so much content but it is hard for many people who want to enjoy the content to actually enjoy it since every zone is treated as a poor tutorial area, no resistance and no lessons learned. Do you want to directly address any of the 3 main points about why having only an easy overland is an issue or do you want to just paint me as an enemy wanting to spoil other peoples time?
(Those points being, vets can't enjoy the stories, new players are put off by how simple the game is, new players learn nothing and are forced into groups before they can even become comfortable with how to play the game.)
Well to start with, the optional difficulty has the be a basically full redo of the affected areas, mob density, mob abilities, everything has to be redone. Then you have to consider what do you think is a reasonable level of increase? Is it something that you will die on a lot? how about the players that are far better than you then, shouldn't they have difficult content too? Also they will need even more mechanics and changes made for them as well. Also as was already mentioned on the first page, and is always brought up then you need to redo loot lists, can't ask people to agree to harder stuff without getting new and better rewards.
I am of course assuming that you and the other maybe 5% of people that use this are of course going to pay for the server space and development fees out of pocket since I have no desire to have the sub money and crown money I pay them spent on something like this. By the way they can't figure out how to make a dungeon toggle work why would they get it working on a overland zone then?
As for the mentioned point earlier, by another poster, that the world bosses should not be soloable, I have to disagree on that. There is a point that they should be because really after a certain point then it means they wont get killed ever. If you need 15 people doing say 7-10k each then one person doing 100k is going to be able to solo it, that is simply how the game works unless you artificially make it impossible which means that if you cannot find a group for the boss then there is zero chance to get it killed, and most people have no desire or reason to go after world bosses in zones that they have long since finished.1 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And that is no more "Selfish" than the claim that Overland is only for the Casual and the New.
They outnumber you. And the game is a business. If a more difficult overland brought in more money, guess what? They would make a more difficult overland.
Right now 50% of each years DLC is not intended for casual players. Why should they keep having ESO+ (or even keep playing) if it's less than that?
Meanwhile nearly 100% of the recent DLCs have at least some sort of content for vet players, if it be trials, dungeons, or arenas. The only DLC I can think of that only had casual content is the Dark Brotherhood and maybe Dragonhold. (The Thieves guild had MoL.)
0 -
Raegwyr✭✭✭✭We just had a poll about this.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/567984/its-time-to-make-this-game-more-challenging/p1
66% feel overland is fine the way it is.
You just linked an example of really biased poll when you can even find ppl voting that content is fine only to write that they would like harder overland but dont want to vote in biased poll lol.
Do you even read the comments there?
66% voted for “Its fine the way it is”.
There were several other ways to vote.
People right now want to do dailies as fast as possible they don’t want more difficult overland.
Add to that most players don’t even run normal dungeons much less have very good dps parses. I personally know one player who only makes wood elf magika healers and would never set foot in a dungeon. Even normal mode versions of the easiest dungeons scare her.
And she is not alone. I know players who just get to 50 and start over again, never really gaining any cp. Other people who just want to make RP characters that are completely non meta. Others who would not even think of attacking an Auridon wb unless they are in a group of over 12 people.
Pve overland is made for those types of people. People who are better at the game have EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE GAME!
There is no tourist mode trials, dungeons, or arenas. Don’t take away the one thing true casuals have.
It is fine for people to enjoy overland as is, but overland is the vast majority of the game. Experienced players want to leave trials and dungeons to enjoy the new story content, but when every spec of narrative tension falls flat the second the main villain isn't protected by plot armor. That causes players like myself to think, why bother? Every npc harping about the end of the world is just to lazy to take care of the trash and I can't get invested in their stories no matter how well written they are. Add in how the laughably easy overland gives new players a poor impression of what ESO has to offer, and so poorly prepares them to do anything else in the game, and all it does is cause problems. Adding an option won't "Take away the one thing true casuals have," it will give experienced players the option to actually enjoy the story content and give casual players a place to learn rather than throwing them to the wolves only to cause friction in group content that we all know exist.
Overland is one and done. The only way to beat the “easy quest boss” (they aren’t for many people) a second time is to make a new character. Endgame vet trial players have repeatable difficult content for that reason.
Your claim is the vast majority of the hame is easy. So what? This is the domain of RPers, casuals and home decorators. And with the patch notes for 7.0.2 it looks like their dps just took another hit.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/572775/7-0-2-proc-set-changes-the-death-of-proc-sets-in-pve/p1
They don’t ask for much, stop making trying to make their lives worse.
Whose lives am I trying to make worse? An optional difficulty wouldn't make peoples lives worse. And saying "you guys have trials, stay there, the rest of the game isn't for you" is selfish. This game has stories, but they are stories I actively avoid not because they are poorly written, but because they aren't worth my time. I can't invest myself in a story when I know full well every single quest is nothing but running from point A to B listening to npcs wax on about how it's the end of the world. The overland is full of so much content but it is hard for many people who want to enjoy the content to actually enjoy it since every zone is treated as a poor tutorial area, no resistance and no lessons learned. Do you want to directly address any of the 3 main points about why having only an easy overland is an issue or do you want to just paint me as an enemy wanting to spoil other peoples time?
(Those points being, vets can't enjoy the stories, new players are put off by how simple the game is, new players learn nothing and are forced into groups before they can even become comfortable with how to play the game.)
An optional difficulty? Does this just happen for free? Do you think the fights are made in an afternoon by a single person? There are voice actors, people who run the recording equipment, the game directors, sound effect artists, the people in the HR department who keep track of this work... And we have not even gone into the actual programmers and their supporting staff yet.
More work on ANYTHING means something else gets cut for budget and time. So what gets cut to make your "Do it once and never see it again per character" vet encounter experience? Because something tells me they are not going to start making the trials shorter.
Do we make the storyline a bit shorter? The land mass a bit smaller? Do we do even less work on game stability? Adding one thing, means subtracting something else.
Casuals just got companions that are completely useless in all part of game except overland. This new system with new voice lines, checks, gear progression, skills etc will be probably more pricy to maintain and expand then the overland optional difficulty.
What is your problem, really? You got a lot of new shiny toys each year with normal difficulty dungeons, two zones full of quests etc yet you screaming that vets are too demanding because they dont want to stay in 4 dungeons and one trial for whole year. Yes, this is typical amount of content prepared for vets per year.
Zos should introduce new zone with optional difficulty setting and just see how popular it would be. Not the second craglorn with stupid forced group mechanics, just new zone with normal/vet switch. And if the new vet mode will be success implement it partially to old zones, adding the switch for couple zones per patch.
Stop with this toxic behaviour and preaching how vets should s*** the f*** up. Do you see veterans screaming that dungeons should have only veteran mode because casuals should stay at overland? I don't see either.
It is baffling that you find weird arguments like "it will cost too much" after ppl told you and other ppl multiple times that this optional difficulty wouldn't destroy your easy gameplay. Will it cost money? Sure. How much? You don't know that, I don't know that. But they already have the animations, sound effects, models etc. So cost of adding new mechanics and changing numerical values to the enemies wouldn't be that high as you try to present4 -
Greg11jkalfa✭✭✭Greg11jkalfa wrote: »While I would agree that with common sense, a good understanding of the game, and decent gear, you can do just fine on your own. However, not everyone is going to meet that criteria.
And right now the game does nothing to encourage players to get better.
1. Many of them could meet that criteria if the game actually showed how to play
2. Overland is hard for new players between 1-15, maybe 20, and once they have a few skills and ok armor then the rest of overland (hundreds of hours of questing) is laughably easy. That is a problem when all of overland is designed around new players.
I don't want another Craglorn with the forced grouping - but - I don't want everything to be as easy as Bleakrock either.Greg11jkalfa wrote: »Not to mention, if you've only played Morrowind and base game content, you're missing out on a massive amount of content to try. The game has grown to be massive, and there's new content to explore each year.
It doesn't matter if the gameplay experience of story, questing, and "exploration" are too trivial and easy to the point that it is NOT Engaging or Fun
Engaging Story & Engaging Gameplay should not be mutually exclusive.
The game does encourage players to get better though. End goals are completely subjective per player. Some players want to collect achievement points, some players want to explore the world, some players want to be masters of PvP, so on and so forth. The best dungeon running gear for example is arguably the Trial sets, which are only obtainable through doing that content. Perfected versions of such sets are then only attainable by completing harder content. Boss helmets and shoulders can only be obtained a few ways, mind you I'm speaking on the first time. I only say that thanks to the new reconstruction system, which allows you to get gear you've already obtained for transmute crystals. Those very crystals by the way, require you to do dungeons, and PvP, which is directly encouraging you to improve your gameplay in both areas. Overland is not meant to be hard as far as basic mobs go. If overland and even dungeon trash mobs were to be stronger, they'd become little more than a nuisance to the masses. Though power is relatively easy to obtain, that doesn't therefore mean the content is easy. Furthermore, there are countless ways to play the game. How you play your characters may not be how others wish to play theirs. The main claim of the game is to play any way you want. If the basic enemies were to be buffed, this would lean more towards the opposition of Zenimax's goal. Not to mention, trash mobs are exactly that. If you're really looking for content to push your limits, try solo veteran dungeons, and do the hard mode boss fights. Get into high tier trials, or veteran arenas. There's so much more content than what's literally on the surface. For millions of players, including myself, the game is engaging enough in far more than one way. I've spent more time than I would like to admit just admiring the world they've put together. If the game is too relaxed for you, then the game may not be what you're looking for. If the harder content that's available doesn't interest you, and you're only interest is in challenging content, then there is no content in the game for you.Edited by Greg11jkalfa on May 5, 2021 12:40AMWhen the next Elder Scroll is written, you shall be it's scribe.-Martin SeptimMember Since June 9, 20151 -
ZOS_GregoryVmodGreetings all!
After some review, we have decided to close this thread down as it has many similarities to another thread found here.
Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
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