6 months is way too long

ksbrugh

6 months, if once per day you train your horse.
I understand zos wanting to sell riding lessons in their crown store. But most people, by 3 weeks in know whether they're going to stick with a game or not, and having such a slow mount IMO would have an impact on that decision. I would not drop money (crowns) on something like this early on most likely never. And the fact that mount speed does not carry over to other characters like champion points do is a money crab in my opinion. Yes yes I understand zos needs to make money but we should at least be able to take half of the training over to a new character or something. I play a lot of PVP and I do not want to create new characters or buy new character slots for this reason only.
And yes I know you can shave 10 days off of that 6 months if you log in every 20 hours exactly and train your mount.

Goregrinder

ksbrugh wrote: »

6 months, if once per day you train your horse.
I understand zos wanting to sell riding lessons in their crown store. But most people, by 3 weeks in know whether they're going to stick with a game or not, and having such a slow mount IMO would have an impact on that decision. I would not drop money (crowns) on something like this early on most likely never. And the fact that mount speed does not carry over to other characters like champion points do is a money crab in my opinion. Yes yes I understand zos needs to make money but we should at least be able to take half of the training over to a new character or something. I play a lot of PVP and I do not want to create new characters or buy new character slots for this reason only.
And yes I know you can shave 10 days off of that 6 months if you log in every 20 hours exactly and train your mount.

Just wait 3 weeks, and if you decide to stick with the game, buy some riding lessons from the c store. I wouldn't spend a dime until I knew for sure this was a game I was sticking with for a while. I'm just thankful they even offer riding lessons on the crown store, since we had to train our horses the old fashioned way when the game launched.

Fortunately, there are other ways to increase mount and movement speed that can be unlocked sooner than 3 weeks, like unlocking major gallop through the alliance skill line, and a few CP stars that increase movement or mount sprint speed.

Everstorm

If you want we can meet up in game, I'll mount my zombie horse so you can kick it. 😉

DtOG

If you stick around the longer you play the more characters you make you will be thankful you can purchase mount speed lol.

Daraklus

If it helps, you can get stuck in to a round or two of Battlegrounds and unlock a 30% mount speed increase. Which really helps with travel.

peacenote

The horse training timing was in place long before there was a Crown Store. The riding lessons exist because people asked for it, just like they asked tor ways to speed up crafting research.

Also, when the game launched, each mount you had was purchased separately and you had to train each one.

https://www.elderscrollsguides.com/mounts/

So we've got it easy, now, in comparison!

ksbrugh

peacenote wrote: »

The horse training timing was in place long before there was a Crown Store. The riding lessons exist because people asked for it, just like they asked tor ways to speed up crafting research.

Also, when the game launched, each mount you had was purchased separately and you had to train each one.

https://www.elderscrollsguides.com/mounts/

So we've got it easy, now, in comparison!

Yes day one player here I agree with you lots of changes have been made and we have it easier compared to then, but with that said change doesn't mean there's no need for more change.
I'm not sure if there is a world record in the Guinness book of world records for longest upgrade in any game, but if there is I'm sure Zos is at the lead of the pack in first place on this one.
Anyway it's just a suggestion I just remember how discouraged I was when I started playing the game and I could run faster than my horse. It almost had an impact on my view of the game and I'm sure that it does impact a lot of people.
I'm just glad I have all my mounts on all my characters at full upgrade level. And now I get to give other people heck about falling behind when we're in the group lol. But I really don't do that lol

Shewolf075

peacenote wrote: »

The horse training timing was in place long before there was a Crown Store. The riding lessons exist because people asked for it, just like they asked tor ways to speed up crafting research.

Also, when the game launched, each mount you had was purchased separately and you had to train each one.

https://www.elderscrollsguides.com/mounts/

So we've got it easy, now, in comparison!

Agreed! Feeding your horse everyday gives you a goal and something to commit to as well. It wasn't something you brought in a crown store or handed to us back in the day.

driosketch

Shewolf075 wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

The horse training timing was in place long before there was a Crown Store. The riding lessons exist because people asked for it, just like they asked tor ways to speed up crafting research.

Also, when the game launched, each mount you had was purchased separately and you had to train each one.

https://www.elderscrollsguides.com/mounts/

So we've got it easy, now, in comparison!

Agreed! Feeding your horse everyday gives you a goal and something to commit to as well. It wasn't something you brought in a crown store or handed to us back in the day.

You were also limited in choice. You could only max out speed, stamina, or inventory. You can now max all three, and it's treated like an endless journey. It'll take 2 months for speed only, and it's a progression. You'll likely be faster than on foot by the 2nd week.

peacenote

ksbrugh wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

The horse training timing was in place long before there was a Crown Store. The riding lessons exist because people asked for it, just like they asked tor ways to speed up crafting research.

Also, when the game launched, each mount you had was purchased separately and you had to train each one.

https://www.elderscrollsguides.com/mounts/

So we've got it easy, now, in comparison!

Yes day one player here I agree with you lots of changes have been made and we have it easier compared to then, but with that said change doesn't mean there's no need for more change.
I'm not sure if there is a world record in the Guinness book of world records for longest upgrade in any game, but if there is I'm sure Zos is at the lead of the pack in first place on this one.
Anyway it's just a suggestion I just remember how discouraged I was when I started playing the game and I could run faster than my horse. It almost had an impact on my view of the game and I'm sure that it does impact a lot of people.
I'm just glad I have all my mounts on all my characters at full upgrade level. And now I get to give other people heck about falling behind when we're in the group lol. But I really don't do that lol

Well partially my point was to illustrate that the horse training isn't, in fact, there as a money grab which seemed to be your primary stance. More it's just your basic MMO grind mechanic, no different than crafting research or acquiring crystals for transmutation or farming for gear.

I may be old-fashioned but I actually like the horse training; I think it's fun when you unlock one more point of speed or one more inventory space.

That said I wouldn't be against some kind of welcome kit for new accounts so they could fast-track their first character so, as you say, it isn't a turn off to the game, if that is actually an issue. The game has been around long enough that having ways to encourage new players to "jump right in" and not be overwhelmed would probably be a good thing. But I disagree that new characters shouldn't have to start over. Logging in per toon for horse training, writs, hireling mails... it's just a part of the game. What I'd rather see is dual specs so that we don't always have to make a new toon for scenarios like PvE vs PvP. I think all the grinds are super annoying for people who want to just try one small thing and end up having to make a new character for it. "Here we go, time to level Undaunted again...."

ThorianB

imagine if they had something like skyshards, where you could just train up to max level on 1 character and then it unlocked mount training in the crown store for your other characters. Speed, stamina, carrying, would each be unlocked for purchase on other characters once you hit 60 on a single character. Get a new character for say 1500 crowns you can instantly train 60 speed on it, for example.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

peacenote wrote: »

The horse training timing was in place long before there was a Crown Store. The riding lessons exist because people asked for it, just like they asked tor ways to speed up crafting research.

Also, when the game launched, each mount you had was purchased separately and you had to train each one.

https://www.elderscrollsguides.com/mounts/

So we've got it easy, now, in comparison!

I almost forgot about that. I remember when they stated they were going to merge all your horses on each character, I was feeding 3 horses per day per toon.

Amottica

peacenote wrote: »

The horse training timing was in place long before there was a Crown Store. The riding lessons exist because people asked for it, just like they asked tor ways to speed up crafting research.

Also, when the game launched, each mount you had was purchased separately and you had to train each one.

https://www.elderscrollsguides.com/mounts/

So we've got it easy, now, in comparison!

Oh my. Glad I am not having to train each mount separately.

In the less than three months I have played this game I did find it odd how we train our mounts but I did not find it that big of a deal. I bought a 10 pack of riding lessons to start with and also created my second character and started training that mount to get ahead of things.

When Zenimax made it so mount speed from PvP was so easy to obtain and a constant passive that also helped.

So as a new player I am not having issues with this.

AlnilamE

As others have said, the horse feeding system pre-dates the crown store.

I have leveled all my characters without ever buying a riding lesson (I did use a few I got from free crates, though).

BUT! ZOS could throw people a bone and let them train all three stats every day to reduce the time it takes.

That said, my strategy is usually Speed until 30, then some stamina, then some inventory, then back to speed.

And don't forget to go to Cyrodiil and do the Intro quest to put a point into Continuous Assault so you have Major Gallop every time you mount!

Ceejengine

Agree. Should just have an account wide Stable feature instead of per character. Still takes 6 months, sure. But only once. Theres 0 fun to be had the 7th time you have to wait to max out speed.

Sealish

Well, it only takes two months to get to max mount speed. The other two stats are way less important and can be trained slowly. The stamina doesn't really do much since your mount can run forever anyways, and getting one more inventory slot per day feels like it adds up REALLY fast during actual play.

Two months isn't that long to get a max thing (especially mount speed) from a new player in an MMO. Then add to it that you can get the skill that gives 30% speed boost on day 1, or that as soon as you hit 160 you can go and get the Ring of Wild Hunt and the Champion Point Star for 20% movement speed and you easily have a WALKING speed of 172%, sprint for 200% which is plenty fast enough that I haven't gotten on my mount in a very long time.

Even if it took 6 months to get to max mount speed, it wouldn't be so bad given that mount speed in MMOs is historically something that has to be worked for and comes very slowly, and the game provides so much fast travel and other speed buffs. But it doesn't.

AcadianPaladin

To me the answer is pretty simple: Allow players to train each of the three mount disciplines once a day. Two months to complete the entire process instead of six.

SilverBride

I think we should be able to train one point in all 3 areas area every day. Then it would only take 2 months to fully train, which is a lot more reasonable.

Sheezabeast

But...it was that way before the crown store came out....so your point doesn't hold water...

phaneub17_ESO

Back at the start of ESO, each mount had their own individual mount training, not across all your mounts like today, and you didn't get a free horse at level 10, no you had to either gotten Imperial Edition with a free White Horse or shell out 10,000 gold for a regular mount while some were pricy like 42,000 gold for one that came pre-loaded with +10 Speed or Carry Capacity.

Anyway, its best to create alts you plan on playing in the future, let them sit and do their mount training each day. When you decide you want to play them, their mount training is ahead!

Destai

It's inconvenient, but IMO this is one of those items I refuse to buy. They could've changed this after the game went subscription-optional, but they didn't, so I'm not going to be part of the marketing data that supports this being in the store.

Of my 9 toons, I finally have 5 of them fully horsed out. Feels good.

jssriot

This is a feature that reflects the kind of game design they created this MMO around: getting people to invest in the game, and in their characters, rather than it being something you can jump into, create a char, have all the things by end of day 3, get bored, leave the game. It's laso why the crafting system is the way it is. ZOS advertised this game at launch as a game that players will need invest time into. This is part of that.

And despite all the negativity I have towards ZOS, this is where a player like me (someone who wants other players to stick around, really learn the game, get gud, and help make the community one of players who really are into the game) and ZOS (who want you to stick around and pay for the sub and new content and Crown store junk) have converging interests. I don't want people who jump into this game and fart around with "joke" toons they can delete the next day or don't care if they get their account banned because they didn't have to invest much into their chars. Features like this discourage that kind of behavior because you know, gamers are going to be gamers and consequences for behavior that diminishes the community is a good thing. You think a player like me with multiple toons with maxxed out riding skills is going go do something dumb and impulsive and get my account ban and lose those chars? Heck no. Not anymore than I would do that and risk losing my master crafter.

Riding lessons like crafting isn't essential to being able to play the game, but they are major pluses for people who invest into the game and their chars. People have complained about the riding lessons forever, but frankly, it's good game design.

If you know anything about modded Minecraft, you should know this issue with players not investing into the content is a problem with that community. Modders and mod pack makers put all this effort into making amazing mods and packs and players were just zipping to the top tier stuff and getting bored and not actually playing the content all the way through. So they started doing things like staging, to make players progress to get to higher tier content and items, and hello, the most popular modpack to date, arguably, now is Sevtech Ages, which as its name suggests is a staged modpack you have to invest in and progress through. Because despite what complainers who make a lot of noise about not wanting to wait and spend time on things in games, this is what a lot more players who actually find rewarding. Again, good game design.

I hope ZOS doesn't change this. I fear one day they will, like they have with so many other things, but it would be bad if they did. Instant gratification does not an invested, long-time player make.

Starlock

Q: Does the incorporation of a timer improve the gameplay experience for the customer?

A1-Yes: The timer is designed to improve gameplay for the customer. Such timers are typically part of more complex gameplay systems or are a core component of the game. Timers are variously accelerated or slowed based on genre appropriate gameplay mechanisms, not to simply inconvenience the player. For example, in some strategy games, player investments in technology allow for faster timer for new discoveries.

A2-No: The timer is designed not to improve the game for the customer, but for profit motive. More specifically, timers manipulate customers into daily logins, which is an essential part of the hook->habit->hobby/addiction that helps ensure continuous cash shop exposure in a games-as-service title. At times, paid solutions are offered to speed up timers to generate additional revenue (also known as "solution selling" - create problem to charge for solution).

ksbrugh

peacenote wrote: »

ksbrugh wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

The horse training timing was in place long before there was a Crown Store. The riding lessons exist because people asked for it, just like they asked tor ways to speed up crafting research.

Also, when the game launched, each mount you had was purchased separately and you had to train each one.

https://www.elderscrollsguides.com/mounts/

So we've got it easy, now, in comparison!

Yes day one player here I agree with you lots of changes have been made and we have it easier compared to then, but with that said change doesn't mean there's no need for more change.
I'm not sure if there is a world record in the Guinness book of world records for longest upgrade in any game, but if there is I'm sure Zos is at the lead of the pack in first place on this one.
Anyway it's just a suggestion I just remember how discouraged I was when I started playing the game and I could run faster than my horse. It almost had an impact on my view of the game and I'm sure that it does impact a lot of people.
I'm just glad I have all my mounts on all my characters at full upgrade level. And now I get to give other people heck about falling behind when we're in the group lol. But I really don't do that lol

Well partially my point was to illustrate that the horse training isn't, in fact, there as a money grab which seemed to be your primary stance. More it's just your basic MMO grind mechanic, no different than crafting research or acquiring crystals for transmutation or farming for gear.

I may be old-fashioned but I actually like the horse training; I think it's fun when you unlock one more point of speed or one more inventory space.

That said I wouldn't be against some kind of welcome kit for new accounts so they could fast-track their first character so, as you say, it isn't a turn off to the game, if that is actually an issue. The game has been around long enough that having ways to encourage new players to "jump right in" and not be overwhelmed would probably be a good thing. But I disagree that new characters shouldn't have to start over. Logging in per toon for horse training, writs, hireling mails... it's just a part of the game. What I'd rather see is dual specs so that we don't always have to make a new toon for scenarios like PvE vs PvP. I think all the grinds are super annoying for people who want to just try one small thing and end up having to make a new character for it. "Here we go, time to level Undaunted again...."

I'm in agreeance with you on some things, (here it comes) BUT (LOL) I'm telling you I have kids and with this new generation of instant gratitude the only way to draw or pull in that crowd of people it's to have a little more leeway a little more forgiveness especially in long-term viable skills like Mount speed and stamina.
Mount speed and stamina it's more important to me IMO THEN crafting abilities traitwise that is. Because I can level all my crafting abilities to 50 in one day or less. Learning all the traits, no that cannot be done. But not knowing all the traits is not a game ending aspect for a newer player. But I'm telling you I run a guild and the most and I do mean the most complaints are on training Mount speed and stamina.
I can increase my bank size and my wallet size with in game gold I can decrease my blacksmithing my clothing my woodworking by one day with in game gold. I can even increase the experience that my character gains with in game gold.
Maybe if zos offered a way to buy Mount speed Mount stamina Mount capacity with writ points that would not only help out older players creating new characters it would give newer characters the ability to farm gold so they could buy the scrolls in traders stores to promote new character health by increasing their mouth abilities.
Having a reason for new characters to farm creases the viability of eso. The more players new or old willing to farm and interact with the game, dungeon, overland, etc etc means that a more diverse environment more interaction with other players more people willing to group more people wanting to be just out there in the tamriel world exploring, fighting for the goal of gathering more gold and experience to further this games attraction to The wider public arena.

jircris11

ksbrugh wrote: »

6 months, if once per day you train your horse.
I understand zos wanting to sell riding lessons in their crown store. But most people, by 3 weeks in know whether they're going to stick with a game or not, and having such a slow mount IMO would have an impact on that decision. I would not drop money (crowns) on something like this early on most likely never. And the fact that mount speed does not carry over to other characters like champion points do is a money crab in my opinion. Yes yes I understand zos needs to make money but we should at least be able to take half of the training over to a new character or something. I play a lot of PVP and I do not want to create new characters or buy new character slots for this reason only.
And yes I know you can shave 10 days off of that 6 months if you log in every 20 hours exactly and train your mount.

Use to be worse, back in the day before the cash shop it was once per day.... Each mounts stats where different. So if you hit a new mount half way in you ended up back at square one.

Lumsdenml

Like life, not all things have to be quick. It is fine the way it is.

ksbrugh

I'm just telling you I'm an ESO day one player not an ESO forum day one commenter. I started to comment recently because I've seen things and I hear things from playing all the time that I have played. Mount speed Mount stamina is a bigger concern in the community than you can possibly imagine. I have eight toons with fully maxed Mount stats the old-fashioned way, what I'm suggesting is not benefiting me but it's what I hear from my guild community and from other ESO players in chat. We need a system to be able to turn in writ points and gain a scroll to increase Mount speed and stamina learning by a 50%. A cut in the time at least would be something.

Goregrinder

peacenote wrote: »

The horse training timing was in place long before there was a Crown Store. The riding lessons exist because people asked for it, just like they asked tor ways to speed up crafting research.

Also, when the game launched, each mount you had was purchased separately and you had to train each one.

https://www.elderscrollsguides.com/mounts/

So we've got it easy, now, in comparison!

Yep. As a Beta 2013 player, I can confirm that you are 100% accurate.

LalMirchi

I just level up mounts for completeness.

Untrained alts live in Vivec City where stable, bank, writ crafting stations and turn in points are in the open and close to each other. After maxing out mounts the alt is moved to Alinor.

I personally never use these mounts apart for very occasional trips to the riding simulator called Cyrodiil. With the Ring of the Wild Hunt I have even less reason to use a mount.

itscompton

peacenote wrote: »

The horse training timing was in place long before there was a Crown Store. The riding lessons exist because people asked for it, just like they asked tor ways to speed up crafting research.

Also, when the game launched, each mount you had was purchased separately and you had to train each one.

https://www.elderscrollsguides.com/mounts/

So we've got it easy, now, in comparison!

So it used to suck even more and that's supposed to make us just accept it? OP has a very valid request. Just the 60 days of having to train for speed is ridiculous. When I want to make new characters I spend 2 months doing the mount speed before I even level them to CP because it's so annoying to ride when they're slow.
If they improved the leveling experience for horse training I'd have made enough characters by now that I'd have to have bought extra slots for them but I've still got one more open right now because of what a P.I.T.A it is; so they've actually lost money from me with the current system.

Kiralyn2000

ksbrugh wrote: »

6 months, if once per day you train your horse.
I understand zos wanting to sell riding lessons in their crown store.

You know that long before there were "cash shops" and the ability to skip gameplay via $, MMOs were full of endless timesinks?

Why does everyone say that the only point of mount training is to sell riding lessons? It's obviously Just Another MMO Timesink. Something to do every day that'll take a long time to finish. (Just like the new CP cap - this whole "omg, how am i supposed to grind these out in a couple weeks?!?!" You're not.)


Yes, I have leveled mounts on all my characters. No, I've never bought a riding lesson (or XP scrolls, or skill lines, or any of the other "I want to pay to not play the game" stuff). Personally, I'm always amazed when people say they bought the riding lessons, since they seem like one of the biggest wastes of $ in the entire store. Why would anyone ever spend crowns on them?