PLEASE don't ruin companions with impossible-to-get armour

cyberjanet

Elsonso wrote: »

I am not entirely clear on what point you are making.

It is clear that a design point in the game, as with many MMO games, is that there is gear that you can get that is rare but not guaranteed.

You can't just go kill the dragon and expect that the Holy Cuirass will be there.

Okay, let me explain the point I am making. It took me three weeks of at least 1 1/2 hours play a day to get the pale order lead from Bad Hallows. Everyone else was complaining it took them a couple of hours and that was too long.

I'm not worried about not getting the holy cuirass from the first dragon I kill. I'm worried about only get foul hides from every dragon I kill. If I enjoy killing dragons I will kill them from time to time. I don't want to be forced to kill dragons for weeks on end to get maybe one little non-holy cuirass

If the drops are that crappy, I'll do something else.

I am not expecting to level or equip my companions in a day. I expect to spend a long - and enjoyable - time doing that. But I do want to equip them ever. If I'm going to get one piece of green something every three weeks of play, well, I have other things to do.

ajkb78

Fata1moose wrote: »

Companions are supposed to help newer players get through content they can’t clear. The equipment that companions need in order to be effective drop most prominently from world and dungeon bosses, the aforementioned content that newer players would have trouble clearing. So yeah this needs to change somewhat in addition to buffing companions a ton so they’re actually helpful.

Never mind the gear, even with purple companion gear they aren't any use because they're dead all the time. My sorcerer pets can mostly survive VMA with maybe a couple of resummons, but Bastien even geared out in purple gear dies almost immediately to any boss that leaves a ground AOE, even in normal content and regardless of role, because he doesn't know to move out of it. I think it would help enormously if they at least either gave them the basic AI to move out of an AOE or gave them something like 95% reduction in damage taken from AOE (or complete immunity). They do seem marginally better at dealing with direct damage though, at least when made as tanky as possible.

VaranisArano

Elsonso wrote: »

cyberjanet wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Outside of that, the design goal of companions seems to be "long term" rather than "quick". Journey-To-Goal rather than Immediate-Satisfaction.

That is what one wants from companions, the pleasure of taking them from 0 to 20, weeks of enjoyable playing time. Not weeks of trying to find decent armour for them.

Grind to me is relentlessly pursuing stuff whether you're enjoying it or not, so I don't grind. I don't spend hours relentlessly killing skeleteons or zombies or whatever they in that place everyone tells me about, just to gain a few levels. I like to take pleasure in my games.

I am not entirely clear on what point you are making.

It is clear that a design point in the game, as with many MMO games, is that there is gear that you can get that is rare but not guaranteed.

You can't just go kill the dragon and expect that the Holy Cuirass will be there. You don't know which dragon has it. You may have to kill a lot of dragons, which in a game is the same dragon because the game cannot possibly generate enough unique dragons, and dragon lairs, to satisfy an epic quest for the Holy Cuirass carried by an unknown dragon.

I'm not sure that's a great analogy.

If I want a player chest piece in a given overland set, I know exactly where to farm: world bosses and treasure chests. It's not a guarantee, since world bosses can drop a head, chest, leg, weapon, or unique item pieces. Treasure chests can drop anything. It could take a while. Still, I know where to look.

If I want a BOP player chest, I'll be farming non-final bosses in a dungeon. Again, my RNG might suck, but at least I know where to look.

Do we have any equivalent "Companion gear of X type will drop from Y-type bosses" statement yet?

DinoZavr

Dear Zenimax,

i had raised a Grand Master Crafter,
i have Transmute Station at home
i have tons of crafting materials in my craftbag

please, let me craft and/or reconstruct companions' gear
or what are crafters for in this game?

with new sets introduction, and now companions' gear introduction we got no increase of neither bag space, nor bank space.
basically, players become squires for theirs own companions. this is not right. and QoL also suffers.

are the companions that weak they are unable to carry their own gear?
please add them a 210 slots bag. even if it is solely dedicated to companions gear only, they could carry their own cast-offs

Elsonso

cyberjanet wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I am not entirely clear on what point you are making.

It is clear that a design point in the game, as with many MMO games, is that there is gear that you can get that is rare but not guaranteed.

You can't just go kill the dragon and expect that the Holy Cuirass will be there.

Okay, let me explain the point I am making. It took me three weeks of at least 1 1/2 hours play a day to get the pale order lead from Bad Hallows. Everyone else was complaining it took them a couple of hours and that was too long.

I'm not worried about not getting the holy cuirass from the first dragon I kill. I'm worried about only get foul hides from every dragon I kill. If I enjoy killing dragons I will kill them from time to time. I don't want to be forced to kill dragons for weeks on end to get maybe one little non-holy cuirass

If the drops are that crappy, I'll do something else.

I am not expecting to level or equip my companions in a day. I expect to spend a long - and enjoyable - time doing that. But I do want to equip them ever. If I'm going to get one piece of green something every three weeks of play, well, I have other things to do.

Ah. Well, I walked into one of the Blackreach delves and got a blue (damage) and green (crit) greaves for my companion before I got too far from the entrance. Never saw a boss. I am not saying that this will be the case every time. However, in contrast, I got nothing from numerous overland "mini-bosses" (mainly wispmothers).

VaranisArano wrote: »

Do we have any equivalent "Companion gear of X type will drop from Y-type bosses" statement yet?

Not that I am aware of. I got two greaves from a delve trash mob but never got to the boss to see what they dropped.

Ashtaris

VaranisArano wrote: »

Mythreindeer wrote: »

I'm just happy that companions won't be OP right out of the gate though I suppose that's coming over time.

Balance is a four letter word.

I think the Companion AI is the bigger problem holding them back from ever being OP. They seem to be able to handle overland mobs. Anything harder or more numerous, and it's dirt naps for Bastian and Mirri.

In other words, unless things turn around and we start hearing that great gear really fixes their problems with survivability in public dungeons and versus bosses, I think ZOS could relent on the gear grind.

Right now, Bastian and Mirri fall right into the category of the worst of our random dungeon teammates: "A dead damage dealer does zero DPS."

I have to agree. Unless ZOS does something to help prevent the companions from eating dirt all the time in more difficult content, the general community will tire from the grind and only the role players will use them. I have no intention on leveling a companion if it is of no use to me in general gameplay.

Dagoth_Rac

The bad news: Companions are squishy and die almost immediately to anything tougher than overland trash.

The good news: If Companions are this weak, you can ignore them, and the lousy RNG for farming their gear is no longer a concern.

The really bad news: ZOS want you to pay $40 for a Chapter with a main new feature that is really feeble and bad.

xaraan

I don't think we should be able to put player gear on companions, and I'd also say no amount of complaining will change that mechanic before launch either, so the focus should be on changes that might actually happen with companions.

If the drop rate of their armor pieces is too low, then yes, they should up it a bit, especially for basic green gear.

And if it just adds to inventory management woes then that's another thing we should be pushing to address, there could be a solution, like maybe the companion (who cannot carry our burdens) can at least carry their own spare pieces, maybe one item of each set, like you can replace a green item with a blue when you get it and then vendor the green, etc. Then just click which item sets to equip and they are still holding the unequipped pieces.

I also think they could sell some of their gear, either in chance boxes or just pick a particular set and offer them through the now mostly useless armor and weapon merchants in every zone. Anything that removes gold from the economy by selling through NPC vendors will be healthy vs. inflation and the dropping value of gold in the game.

Linaleah

Elsonso wrote: »

cyberjanet wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I am not entirely clear on what point you are making.

It is clear that a design point in the game, as with many MMO games, is that there is gear that you can get that is rare but not guaranteed.

You can't just go kill the dragon and expect that the Holy Cuirass will be there.

Okay, let me explain the point I am making. It took me three weeks of at least 1 1/2 hours play a day to get the pale order lead from Bad Hallows. Everyone else was complaining it took them a couple of hours and that was too long.

I'm not worried about not getting the holy cuirass from the first dragon I kill. I'm worried about only get foul hides from every dragon I kill. If I enjoy killing dragons I will kill them from time to time. I don't want to be forced to kill dragons for weeks on end to get maybe one little non-holy cuirass

If the drops are that crappy, I'll do something else.

I am not expecting to level or equip my companions in a day. I expect to spend a long - and enjoyable - time doing that. But I do want to equip them ever. If I'm going to get one piece of green something every three weeks of play, well, I have other things to do.

Ah. Well, I walked into one of the Blackreach delves and got a blue (damage) and green (crit) greaves for my companion before I got too far from the entrance. Never saw a boss. I am not saying that this will be the case every time. However, in contrast, I got nothing from numerous overland "mini-bosses" (mainly wispmothers).

VaranisArano wrote: »

Do we have any equivalent "Companion gear of X type will drop from Y-type bosses" statement yet?

Not that I am aware of. I got two greaves from a delve trash mob but never got to the boss to see what they dropped.

was that a Vunalk delve by any chance? cause it seems to be the only place to drop anything with any degree of regularity.

Elsonso

Linaleah wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

cyberjanet wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I am not entirely clear on what point you are making.

It is clear that a design point in the game, as with many MMO games, is that there is gear that you can get that is rare but not guaranteed.

You can't just go kill the dragon and expect that the Holy Cuirass will be there.

Okay, let me explain the point I am making. It took me three weeks of at least 1 1/2 hours play a day to get the pale order lead from Bad Hallows. Everyone else was complaining it took them a couple of hours and that was too long.

I'm not worried about not getting the holy cuirass from the first dragon I kill. I'm worried about only get foul hides from every dragon I kill. If I enjoy killing dragons I will kill them from time to time. I don't want to be forced to kill dragons for weeks on end to get maybe one little non-holy cuirass

If the drops are that crappy, I'll do something else.

I am not expecting to level or equip my companions in a day. I expect to spend a long - and enjoyable - time doing that. But I do want to equip them ever. If I'm going to get one piece of green something every three weeks of play, well, I have other things to do.

Ah. Well, I walked into one of the Blackreach delves and got a blue (damage) and green (crit) greaves for my companion before I got too far from the entrance. Never saw a boss. I am not saying that this will be the case every time. However, in contrast, I got nothing from numerous overland "mini-bosses" (mainly wispmothers).

VaranisArano wrote: »

Do we have any equivalent "Companion gear of X type will drop from Y-type bosses" statement yet?

Not that I am aware of. I got two greaves from a delve trash mob but never got to the boss to see what they dropped.

was that a Vunalk delve by any chance? cause it seems to be the only place to drop anything with any degree of regularity.

It was.

stefj68

Gear is not impossible to get... its just impossible to keep... 1332 different pieces

Erissime

I do not play on pts but from what I understand based on what I read the new companions need to come with extra inventory slots ( supposedly their own) , a new button in inventory - especially for that - and it wold be nice to add to the general growth a feature like for horses growth ( as far as those bags are concerned) - give some tavern /inn keepers the task to "buy them a drink ever 24h" for 1 bag slot or something! Otherwise.... pretty much of a downside game wise - and merely some rp (potential) addition - that is IF one likes their stories. In truth I never expected them to be that good in battle - so there goes that. Cheers to new faces to dress up!

francesinhalover

A system that seems to be designed for casuals , shouldn't make casuals feel anxiety for not being able to grind hard to get gear.
that just feels like punishing the players that do love the content.

FrancisCrawford

francesinhalover wrote: »

A system that seems to be designed for casuals , shouldn't make casuals feel anxiety for not being able to grind hard to get gear.
that just feels like punishing the players that do love the content.

@DarcyMardin and I are still indecisive over whether to buy the expansion. We've never hesitated before.

Erissime

I think it's a very interesting idea which being new probably needs more input from players to get on the right path, and this is I presume what all these forums are for. I still think the idea is great - how it works now - is another matter I will probably see for myself when that content is released. Also I don't think not buying the content or hesitating on account of other opinions is of any consequence - in the end, I see more story potential, more visuals potential, and IF along with that - there is some level of help through the game - even better - but I doubt that help should be too great - after all it's still an online thing meant to unite people - if we get too strong companions, solo will prevail ( as it already is - I mean we can already solo quite a bit of group content anyway) .

ADarklore

francesinhalover wrote: »

A system that seems to be designed for casuals , shouldn't make casuals feel anxiety for not being able to grind hard to get gear.
that just feels like punishing the players that do love the content.

Um... why even worry about it? I mean, play the game, do the quests with your companions, and as you complete the content, gear will drop along the way. It's that simple. ZOS wants players to think long-term with companions, not expect to get a fully leveled companion in a week or even a month. They seem to do well with normal quest content, delves, public dungeons... so keeping them ranged and gradually acquiring gear over time shouldn't be a big deal. However, if people are expecting to quickly level a high damage combat pet, they will be very quickly disappointed. Companions aren't meant to replace players, they are designed more towards being a 'companion' to solo players.

On this topic of armor though, I DO have a question... can we put companion gear in bank or chests?!?

cyberjanet

Need I say more?

BalticBlues

So now the richest Sugar Daddys in ESO can buy their Miri some pink toys to play with.
While the poor players just see their Miri lying dead in the dirt in her bloody white dress.
Even as the best crafter in the world you are helpless. Only the rich will survive.

crazepdx

BalticBlues wrote: »

Nice pic. So now the richest Sugar Daddys in ESO can by their Miri some toys to play with.

I remember telling people it was going to cost millions to use @HackTheMinotaur builds with companions and being told no way. Guess he needs to release a gold farming video to go with them.

tomofhyrule

I'm sure the guild trader prices will come down eventually. Everyone who gets rare stuff has is insanely high priced on release day until the market stabilizes. Remember how expensive the Greymoor motif was until people realized it was dropping like candy?

I don't like that the companion stuff isn't improvable though... that seems like a major annoyance, and makes it so green/blue companion gear is basically guild store fodder. I guess the idea is that eventually the market will be saturated with those and the price will go down?

crazepdx

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I'm sure the guild trader prices will come down eventually. Everyone who gets rare stuff has is insanely high priced on release day until the market stabilizes. Remember how expensive the Greymoor motif was until people realized it was dropping like candy?

I don't like that the companion stuff isn't improvable though... that seems like a major annoyance, and makes it so green/blue companion gear is basically guild store fodder. I guess the idea is that eventually the market will be saturated with those and the price will go down?

I'm not seeing the prices come down unless either ZOS increases drop rate or people stop buying it. I hope companion gear follows motifs trend and does start dropping like candy.

Elsonso

crazepdx wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I'm sure the guild trader prices will come down eventually. Everyone who gets rare stuff has is insanely high priced on release day until the market stabilizes. Remember how expensive the Greymoor motif was until people realized it was dropping like candy?

I don't like that the companion stuff isn't improvable though... that seems like a major annoyance, and makes it so green/blue companion gear is basically guild store fodder. I guess the idea is that eventually the market will be saturated with those and the price will go down?

I'm not seeing the prices come down unless either ZOS increases drop rate or people stop buying it. I hope companion gear follows motifs trend and does start dropping like candy.

They will come down because, over time, supply will increase and demand will drop. This is without ZOS having to do anything.

Erissime

Bloody amazing what people come up with - seriously? Millions ? I had a person offer me the other day a blue staff for free - in game! Keep them coming lol

Leogon

They're not worth the grind even for new players so just use white gear with the traits you want and replace them if you get lucky by just playing the game(not grinding). The only difference between white gear and purple gear is that it takes a few more seconds for them to die.

Leogon

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

Companions are grindy to level up and find equipment for, I don't understand their aim.

My thoughts exactly. They created this whole system for them with gear and skills and made them super grindy but apparently they're made for new players. Makes no sense to me.

Elsonso

Leogon wrote: »

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

Companions are grindy to level up and find equipment for, I don't understand their aim.

My thoughts exactly. They created this whole system for them with gear and skills and made them super grindy but apparently they're made for new players. Makes no sense to me.

New players won't have to grind anything, really. At least, not unless they want to. The companion will level up as the character levels up and the player will collect gear along the way. If the player is not grinding character levels, then the player really doesn't have to grind companions, either.

Erissime

I don't get why the grind. Armour drops at a reasonable pace, and they are doing what they are supposed to be doing. Now IF You want a super geared high level companion in only a few days because you yourself are an end-game player... I think they are meant to actually bring back the seasoned player to the pleasure of exploring/experiencing the game at a less raced (grinding) step, and actually take the time to build a new feature (the companion). Now if grinding is a thing in a person's life... one needn't complain about ... yet another one. I mean ppl will make a grind out of everything in the end - what's that got to do with the system ? So tis all a matter of point of view. For some there is beauty and time even after several years in the game, for others, nothing is fast enough, and only nrs matter.

cyberjanet

Erissime wrote: »

Armour drops at a reasonable pace

I spent around 24 hours on the PTS with the companions, doing just about everything. That is around 8-9 days of normal live playing time for me, maybe a little more. I think one piece of gear every three or four playing days is not a reasonable pace, especially when it's not even gear you can necessarily use.

Erissime

The armour is said to drop mainly from bosses. I didn't play as much on live, not even as many days (as the chapter doesn't even exist on live in as much) - and I did get drops from dungeons, from normal mobs and from public dungeons bosses . Other content I didn't even do as much ( such as delves, world bosses) - and I got already several pieces of blue armour. Some I needed, some I shared, but I think in a few days of game and the pace at which companions are supposed to be growing - the drops are fine - to prevent turning it all into a grind-fest.

KhajiitLivesMatter

would be so great if the prices stay like that - i mean i just played the dlc with all quests and got 1,5mio for doing so - cant imagine something better