PLEASE don't ruin companions with impossible-to-get armour

cyberjanet

Companions had me really excited, and when they launched on the PTS I spent the entire day playing there and trying them out.
An entire day. I don't have an entire day for the live game.
I was expecting that our picture books would come into play for equipping them, but no. They have their own currency armour, and somewhere I read it would be rare drops.
Please no. Companion armour should drop at the same frequency as real armour, otherwise it will be impossible to equip them. Prices on guild stores will be like when housing launched: a bedroll cost more than the house you bought. Housing was ruined for me by the stupid rare materials needed to make furniture. I know this is a fantasy world but fantasy has its limits. My husband bought Mistveil Manor for 1 million; it cost 5 million to furnish it. Imagine if that were the case in the real world, that it costs 5 times more than the cost of a house to furnish it. We'd all be sleeping on the cold floor, or outdoors.
Jewellery was the same, ruined by ridiculous rarity of the crafting materials. I don't do writs or sealed writs for jewellery on my crafters, I just can't afford it.
Now it seems companions are going to be ruined by lack of armour. If you can't gear them, they won't perform. We can't even craft the armour. Could you think about companion armour-crafting patterns? Companion armour as quest rewards? Companion armour drops at the same rate as normal armour? The possibility of upgrading companion armour?
In an entire day of playing I got three pieces of companion armour, green sabatons, green shield, blue resto staff. In an entire day. I did dungeons, delves, dolmens, quests, geysers, mage's guild quests, fighter's guild quests, anything I can solo where I don't have to rely on the companion. I can't solo a trial so I didn't try that. The companions are only level 4 and 6 now anyway, so not much use.
The reason for me to get Blackwood is companions. But I was burned on housing and jewellery, so I don't want to get too excited and I'm not rushing out to pre-purchase. I may even wait till Blackwood goes on sale, I'm that dubious. Yes, the trial is probably nice, but I have yet to become familiar with Kyne's Aegis, which nobody in the guild ever wants to do. I have enough to catch up on.
Please don't wait for the armour issue to blow up in your face, like jewellery materials did. Address it now. Please. Please. Please.

virtus753

In principle I’m bothered by the low drop rate, as well as by the fact that companion gear is going to add to inventory woes when we do buy/find some. They’re not even willing to sell us solutions for this problem they’ve made worse.

In reality I’m finding that companions are so underwhelming in terms of combat performance that even stacking -3% to damage taken is just going to drag out their inevitable deaths from a few seconds to a few more seconds. If this gear isn’t going to make them significantly more viable in combat, especially dungeons, it really isn’t worth trying to find. I’d farm or buy the one purple item for the achievement and then not worry about it.

redspecter23

I love the stickerbook and hate the fact that I'm going to now have an entire mule character devoted to holding armor again... sigh.

DreadDaedroth

Companions are grindy to level up and find equipment for, I don't understand their aim.

Elsonso

cyberjanet wrote: »

Companions had me really excited, and when they launched on the PTS I spent the entire day playing there and trying them out.
An entire day. I don't have an entire day for the live game.
I was expecting that our picture books would come into play for equipping them, but no. They have their own currency armour, and somewhere I read it would be rare drops.

My expectation is that Companions are going to be a long term task. (aka "grind")

I would not expect the player to run out on Day 1 and get a fully geared optimal Companion by the end of the day. Not by the end of the week, either.

As has been noted, the rapport system is very slow. That right there should be an indicator that the design is such that the player should not expect to just get a fully leveled and equipped Companion in a short amount of time.

virtus753

Elsonso wrote: »

cyberjanet wrote: »

Companions had me really excited, and when they launched on the PTS I spent the entire day playing there and trying them out.
An entire day. I don't have an entire day for the live game.
I was expecting that our picture books would come into play for equipping them, but no. They have their own currency armour, and somewhere I read it would be rare drops.

My expectation is that Companions are going to be a long term task. (aka "grind")

I would not expect the player to run out on Day 1 and get a fully geared optimal Companion by the end of the day. Not by the end of the week, either.

As has been noted, the rapport system is very slow. That right there should be an indicator that the design is such that the player should not expect to just get a fully leveled and equipped Companion in a short amount of time.

Based on my experience so far, it should be possible to grind a companion to max combat level within a few days, maybe even one if you spent all day in the usual places (Skyreach, BRP). But for most players it will be fine leveling them casually, I think, although the guild lines will likely be a pain. I’m at combat level 9 with Mirri already despite working a full-time job and getting only a couple hours in each day this week. The biggest catch I saw in trying to level their skill lines (other than the completely broken guild lines) is that you need 5 pieces of a certain armor weight on them to level that line, but only the typical 3 to unlock it. That feels like an arbitrary and counterintuitive decision that many players probably won’t catch onto until after they notice the lines aren’t increasing. I don’t see any reason it shouldn’t work like it does for players — unlock with 3, level with 1 or more.

As for the rapport system, I wish they’d clarify whether it’s extremely slow but fully working or just plain bugged in some places. A numerical figure on the meter would help immensely here. I can excavate and gain rapport with Mirri per my loot log but not see an increase on the meter when I overlay the screenshots. A fighter’s guild daily moved the needle a little more (though it didn’t unlock the skill line like it was supposed to), so at least some part of the rapport system is working, but that doesn’t answer whether the excavation rapport gains are bugged. Meanwhile, crafting an alcoholic drink for the first time with her satisfied the Mirri’s Favor achievement without putting a rapport increase in my loot log, so no idea if that actually did gain her favor like the achievement says it should. Grinding is one thing, but grinding without knowing whether you’re accomplishing anything is quite another.

If some rapport gains are larger than others, that should be noted somehow, like “increased greatly” or “increased a bit.” Dragon Age did this by showing the actual numbers (+1, +10, +15, etc.). If that’s too immersion-breaking, just use qualitative phrases instead of quantities. But tell us what to expect and ensure it works.

Elydros2015

I would like to see drop rates for companion gear increased as well. I think that's all we can reasonably expect, given that Blackwood is just over a month from release. ZOS cannot add craftable companion armor or an upgrade system at this point. I'm fine with that, but I'd like to see armor drops become more frequent, and NOT to have a higher chance in vet dungeons or trials, because not everyone plays those. Just make them drop from all of the same sources as player armor.

Chaos2088

Should be able to craft them some seeing my characters a master crafter and all, but looks like Im not going to share that detail with my buddy, lol.

cyberjanet

Elsonso wrote: »

My expectation is that Companions are going to be a long term task. (aka "grind")

Yes, much like levelling a character. At least they don't need riding lessons.

remosito

ohhhh... never occured to check if companion gear is tradeable on pts....

that would mean some serious gold to be made..

anybody know if that gear can drop even without chapter? analog to I believe leads. and jc mats?

BlueRaven

remosito wrote: »

ohhhh... never occured to check if companion gear is tradeable on pts....

that would mean some serious gold to be made..

anybody know if that gear can drop even without chapter? analog to I believe leads. and jc mats?

Companion gear will only drop for you if your companion is present (summoned). So it is chapter dependent.

athena9205

i would prefer to have player gear able to go on companions, that would make them useful for solo, dungeons, trials... etc. AND can you open up an ability for them to be inventory mules. 60 slots max would be good, just like the mounts.

SirLeeMinion

In recent years, I've tried to understand whether ZOS doesn't understand their audience, if they don't play their own game, or if I'm just very different from the mass of people that play this game. Given the amount of data at their disposal, I have to imagine they know how to wring the most money from their customer base. So, clearly, I'm not their target demographic.

Whatever the reasons behind their vision for companions, they way they have implemented it has zero appeal for me. I had hoped for NPCs that would let me pull random dungeons with two players, would stay alive to pull aggro in vet content, and would wear existing gear sets to buff my solo play. What we have gotten appears to be about building a relationship with pixels - pass.

Linaleah

SirLeeMinion wrote: »

In recent years, I've tried to understand whether ZOS doesn't understand their audience, if they don't play their own game, or if I'm just very different from the mass of people that play this game. Given the amount of data at their disposal, I have to imagine they know how to wring the most money from their customer base. So, clearly, I'm not their target demographic.

Whatever the reasons behind their vision for companions, they way they have implemented it has zero appeal for me. I had hoped for NPCs that would let me pull random dungeons with two players, would stay alive to pull aggro in vet content, and would wear existing gear sets to buff my solo play. What we have gotten appears to be about building a relationship with pixels - pass.

honestly? it can be both. it is in SWTOR. but the way ESO designed them? its actualy neither. building relationship with pixels with the way the system works right now, is not exactly intuitive or interesting either. their conversations and quests are extremely limited and they mostly react to you doing every day regular things, which makes them into a micromanagement annoyance.

I'm honestly, at this point after playing with them for a few days, not sure WHO is the target audience for companions. because sure as heck I'm not either and I usually very much enjoy building relationships with pixels, along with having a battle buddy. they are just... neither of those.

I mean.... they are supposed to be help for solo players? ostensibly? I've yet to see ANY companion gear drops in solo or sorta group (public dungeons) content. and at this point I probably have about 10 hours of active play with them that was primarily doing public dungeons/delves and looting treasure chests out in a world.

remosito

BlueRaven wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

ohhhh... never occured to check if companion gear is tradeable on pts....

that would mean some serious gold to be made..

anybody know if that gear can drop even without chapter? analog to I believe leads. and jc mats?

Companion gear will only drop for you if your companion is present (summoned). So it is chapter dependent.

that's a bummer.. 😳

TempestM

Companion gear will only drop for you if your companion is present (summoned). So it is chapter dependent.

[/quote]

For someone who doesn't plan to get this chapter even in a year, that's great news, less inventory management with useless trash

crazepdx

What concerns me most here is the drop rate. I spent most of yesterday running a delve that is horribly over tuned for drops. The trash mobs their drop better loot then most bosses. I was able to get almost full sets of all 3 overland sets in divines and purple in the time it took me to get 1 companion ring, a bow, amulet and feet.
If this drop rate is typical gearing them is going to be horrible.

cyberjanet

After days of trying to find a reason for the inexplicable decision to have separate companion armour, all I can think of is proc sets and server overload. It probably is too hard to keep track whether player or companion is wearing the armour to limit it to non-proc sets. Drop rates and even crafting special companion armour is another matter.

Mythreindeer

I'm just happy that companions won't be OP right out of the gate though I suppose that's coming over time.

Balance is a four letter word.

essi2

Gear grind won't be an issue, they can barely hold their own with blue gear in overland, there won't be much reason to actively pursue purple companion gear.

Elsonso

cyberjanet wrote: »

After days of trying to find a reason for the inexplicable decision to have separate companion armour, all I can think of is proc sets and server overload. It probably is too hard to keep track whether player or companion is wearing the armour to limit it to non-proc sets. Drop rates and even crafting special companion armour is another matter.

Yes, my feeling has been from the beginning that Companion gear is related to performance and itemization impacts on the game. Server and client. This was emphasized when the Dev brought this up during ESO Live. Everything about the companions is apparently about balancing what Devs and Players want to do with what the game servers and clients can do.

Outside of that, the design goal of companions seems to be "long term" rather than "quick". Journey-To-Goal rather than Immediate-Satisfaction. aka GRIND. If something is seen as taking too long or is otherwise limited so that it takes longer, that is probably why.

It will be interesting to see how monetized this system will be, in light of the nerf to their golden goose.

cyberjanet

Elsonso wrote: »

Outside of that, the design goal of companions seems to be "long term" rather than "quick". Journey-To-Goal rather than Immediate-Satisfaction.

That is what one wants from companions, the pleasure of taking them from 0 to 20, weeks of enjoyable playing time. Not weeks of trying to find decent armour for them.

Grind to me is relentlessly pursuing stuff whether you're enjoying it or not, so I don't grind. I don't spend hours relentlessly killing skeleteons or zombies or whatever they in that place everyone tells me about, just to gain a few levels. I like to take pleasure in my games.

VaranisArano

Mythreindeer wrote: »

I'm just happy that companions won't be OP right out of the gate though I suppose that's coming over time.

Balance is a four letter word.

I think the Companion AI is the bigger problem holding them back from ever being OP. They seem to be able to handle overland mobs. Anything harder or more numerous, and it's dirt naps for Bastian and Mirri.

In other words, unless things turn around and we start hearing that great gear really fixes their problems with survivability in public dungeons and versus bosses, I think ZOS could relent on the gear grind.

Right now, Bastian and Mirri fall right into the category of the worst of our random dungeon teammates: "A dead damage dealer does zero DPS."

jwellsub17_ESO2

Greetings,

cyberjanet wrote: »

Yes, much like levelling a character. At least they don't need riding lessons.

Except, if you have max riding lessons and the speed CP, you will be wishing they gave the companions riding lessons. Having a companion out and riding cross zone is pretty much a waste of resources. They are unable to keep up and will disappear / reappear randomly and occasionally, they will completely despawn, even though they show up as spawned.

To be fair, in some locations they fell behind because of obvious pathing issues, but the vast majority of times, it was simply because they have no riding lessons.

jwellsub17_ESO2

VaranisArano wrote: »

I think the Companion AI is the bigger problem holding them back from ever being OP. They seem to be able to handle overland mobs. Anything harder or more numerous, and it's dirt naps for Bastian and Mirri.

After playing with Mirri for a day, I felt pretty much the same way. Then I played with Bastian for a day and while their AI is an issue, I think they need to re-balance the companions a bit stat wise. Bastian, even when geared comparably to Mirri, would die to trash mobs that Mirri can handle without issue. Mirri with dual white daggers was out tanking Bastian with sword and board. With a white resto staff she appeared to be out damaging Bastion with a white flame staff.

As for the AI, would like to seem them improve it, or at the very least dramatically increase companion's AOE damage mitigation.

BalticBlues

I am ok having to level up companions.
I am not ok that companions cannot carry regular weapons and armor.
I am even more not ok having to carry THEIR stuff in MY inventory.


I DO NOT WANT TO BE THE BURRO OF MY COMPANION.

I am a master crafter. I have spent YEARS and MILLIONS of gold in learning traits and styles.
I can craft gold gear in all traits and almost any style for ESO players, but
I CANNOT EVEN CRAFT BLUE GEAR FOR HUMBLE COMPANIONS?

ZOS, MASTER CRAFTERS EXPECT COMPANION CRAFTING TABLES.
Let them require 100% knowledge of all existing traits, I am ok with it.

Elsonso

cyberjanet wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Outside of that, the design goal of companions seems to be "long term" rather than "quick". Journey-To-Goal rather than Immediate-Satisfaction.

That is what one wants from companions, the pleasure of taking them from 0 to 20, weeks of enjoyable playing time. Not weeks of trying to find decent armour for them.

Grind to me is relentlessly pursuing stuff whether you're enjoying it or not, so I don't grind. I don't spend hours relentlessly killing skeleteons or zombies or whatever they in that place everyone tells me about, just to gain a few levels. I like to take pleasure in my games.

I am not entirely clear on what point you are making.

It is clear that a design point in the game, as with many MMO games, is that there is gear that you can get that is rare but not guaranteed.

You can't just go kill the dragon and expect that the Holy Cuirass will be there. You don't know which dragon has it. You may have to kill a lot of dragons, which in a game is the same dragon because the game cannot possibly generate enough unique dragons, and dragon lairs, to satisfy an epic quest for the Holy Cuirass carried by an unknown dragon.

The same dragon is nice because people like to grind against that dragon so that they get the Holy Cuirass. I don't even want to think about the screams of pain if people were on a real epic quest and had to find 1000 different lairs and kill 1000 different dragons.

That said, I always say that you don't have to grind for gear. Grinding is a choice. You can just kill dragons as you come across them, and you might just get the Holy Cuirass that you want, but not enough to grind for.

Now, we don't know what the final drop rate is for companion gear, so it is too early to really say what will be a grind and what will not be. I managed to get blue gear fairly easily by just killing random mobs in a delve. This indicates that it should be possible to gear them without grinding, provided you are satisfied with good, but not optimal, gear.

BalticBlues wrote: »

I am a master crafter. I have spent YEARS and MILLIONS of gold in learning traits and styles.
I can craft gold gear in all traits and almost any style for ESO players, but
I CANNOT EVEN CRAFT BLUE GEAR FOR HUMBLE COMPANIONS?

My expectation is that this is related to two things....

1. Crafting is an entire system, and they did not have time to touch this for the purpose of adding Companion content. They are not going to budge on the special gear for Companions, so they can't just use the existing crafting.
2. The Crown Crates just got a nerf and they need new systems to provide a replacement (or "revenge") revenue stream. By not allowing players to craft gear, this allows them to put companion gear in the Crown Store. I don't know if they will actually do this, but it is easier to do if players aren't in there competing from the start.

karekiz

You too can grind a stupid amount for them to die to overland encounters!

VaranisArano

BalticBlues wrote: »

I am ok having to level up companions.
I am not ok that companions cannot carry regular weapons and armor.
I am even more not ok having to carry THEIR stuff in MY inventory.


I DO NOT WANT TO BE THE BURRO OF MY COMPANION.

I am a master crafter. I have spent YEARS and MILLIONS of gold in learning traits and styles.
I can craft gold gear in all traits and almost any style for ESO players, but
I CANNOT EVEN CRAFT BLUE GEAR FOR HUMBLE COMPANIONS?

ZOS, MASTER CRAFTERS EXPECT COMPANION CRAFTING TABLES.
Let them require 100% knowledge of all existing traits, I am ok with it.

You inspired me:

Fata1moose

Companions are supposed to help newer players get through content they can’t clear. The equipment that companions need in order to be effective drop most prominently from world and dungeon bosses, the aforementioned content that newer players would have trouble clearing. So yeah this needs to change somewhat in addition to buffing companions a ton so they’re actually helpful.

Jayroo

the whole ruining companions ship has sailed for me the second I heard they died in 3 hits from overland mobs.