[The Blackwood Chapter] Huge problem and what is wrong with it?

mrreow

hafgood wrote: »

Its not p2w. Its pay for the latest expansion as it always has been and always will be. Wait for a year and you can buy it with crowns or have it included in eso+

This is the model that has always been used for this game and always will be. The only alternative would be to make the game subscription based, a sub that everyone would have to pay to play the game. The game has to be funded somehow and one of those ways is the annual expansion.

With how hard is to play the game without subscription we can argue it's already sub based. Try to play the game without crafting bag or furnish your house with 1/2 furniture.
I personally dont touch the game unless i have spare money for eso+

hafgood

There are plenty of people who play the game without + all it takes is struct inventory management. When I started I had different characters stood in the bank with different crafting materials on them so I could get them as needed.

Yes I choose to pay for + but it isn't essential. In addition there are plenty of + trials during the year,.move all resources to craft bag while that is on and spend the time furnishing your houses.

Bobby_V_Rockit

They are trying to sell a product... of course they are charging money for it and trying to give all the player cohorts a reason to buy it. Welcome to civilisation

divnyi

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

They are trying to sell a product... of course they are charging money for it and trying to give all the player cohorts a reason to buy it. Welcome to civilisation

They can do it without op items, you know. People will try new stuff even if it would be just good instead of broken.

hands0medevil

Honestly... the only reason for buying new chapter for pvp and pve players are new op proc and nonproc items. But don't worry, they will be ner... *ekhm* adjusted next year before another year-long adventure. P2W or not, this new business model is less and less subtle each year. New sets are absurdly OP. Current business and developing model led us already to nonproc cyrodiil test and general issue with balancing hundreds of sets available in game. I hoped something will change with this update. Now I only hope for something new that is going to be released in August.

Lugaldu

hands0medevil wrote: »

Honestly... the only reason for buying new chapter for pvp and pve players are new op proc and nonproc items.

This certainly does not apply to everyone. I'm not interested in proc or non proc items at all, it's all about exploring the world and the stories, even if the quality of the stories is of course sometimes variable.

Daraklus

.

hands0medevil wrote: »

Honestly... the only reason for buying new chapter for pvp and pve players are new op proc and nonproc items. But don't worry, they will be ner... *ekhm* adjusted next year before another year-long adventure. P2W or not, this new business model is less and less subtle each year. New sets are absurdly OP. Current business and developing model led us already to nonproc cyrodiil test and general issue with balancing hundreds of sets available in game. I hoped something will change with this update. Now I only hope for something new that is going to be released in August.

It's a very good thing that you don't need access to the expansions in order to get those items. You can always get someone to go in to those zones and get those sets for you.

divnyi

Daraklus wrote: »

It's a very good thing that you don't need access to the expansions in order to get those items. You can always get someone to go in to those zones and get those sets for you.

Mythics? Dungeon sets?

Lamagrokie

Me collecting leads for "Gaze of Sithis" be like:

-"|"-
./\...........1 lead............2 lead............3 lead............4 lead....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Last lead $$$$$$$$$$$$$


-"|"-
./\.

Daraklus

divnyi wrote: »

Daraklus wrote: »

It's a very good thing that you don't need access to the expansions in order to get those items. You can always get someone to go in to those zones and get those sets for you.

Mythics? Dungeon sets?

Considering I specified "Go in to those zones", it is obvious I was talking about the gear sets, rather than Mythics.

Dungeon sets you can get access to just by paying a month's worth of subscription time.

Honestly from the looks of it, there isn't anything in the upcoming Expansion that yells "Must get this OP gear". There is a set that looks like it would be really good for a Warden Ice-Mage, but that one's an Overworld set so you can get it just by having someone farm it for you.

Seraphayel

Blackwood is the second Chapter I’m not buying at release / full price. I’ll wait half a year until I can get it for $10 like it was the case with Greymoor - it simply isn’t worth more than that, especially when compared to Morrowind‘s or Elsweyr‘s contents and features.

Septimus_Magna

I agree its an update mainly catering to the more casual players, not really surprising because that has been the general trend since One Tamriel if you ask me.

The P2W argument is becoming really boring, expect new better sets, skills and classes each and every update because otherwise new content is pointless from the start. Players like to feel a sense of progression, in ESO getting stronger mainly comes through sets so why do you expect?

New chapters/DLCs without new BiS sets are boring. Remember farming KA for those strong sets? Neither do I..

Túrin_Vidsmidr

If we're lukki this companions thing will return with the next chapters and also improve in AI so they become useful.
Then this dlc would be a good content unlocking point like Summerset is for jewelry crafting.

Sylvermynx

Fhritz wrote: »

<snip>I mean, if you listen to everyone here, this game is literally trash and will die whenever this chapter will be out

Well.... not quite everyone; I've never said that!

Aaxc

VaranisArano

I don't like the monetization of Antiquities. ZOS has a big problem with selling players power through new gear and then clawing back that power in terms of nerfs to gameplay. Mythic items are an egregious example of the preexisting trend.

Yes, that's more of an issue with Greymoor than Blackwood. But we can see how it impacts some of the balance decisions with Blackwood too. Oh, crit is overused and overpowered in PVE? Let's nerf it. Oh, what's this Harpooner's Wading Kilt? Buy Blackwood and Greymoor (and possibly other DLC zones) to find out!

ThorianB

simpledude31998 wrote: »

Brief answer to the question - it's paywall.

I am concerned that very little attention has been paid to this huge problem.
So, I'll start by saying that I love TESO. I discuss it with my friends, also i always recommend it when our dialog flows into the topic about games. So far I have personally recruited 5 people to buy and play this MMO (I understand that this is a drop in the ocean, but I do not pretend to be a promoter). And my main argument is that there is no PAYWALL.

Unfortunately, things are changing now.

When a company brings out new content, that is not pay 2 win. People REALLY need to learn what pay 2 win mean. Paid expansions are a normal part of a healthy MMO. If people have issues with regularly having to pay to continue to play a game, then they need to just stay out of the MMO genre of games because these games either require everyone pays a little bit, some people pay a moderate amount, or a few people( whales) pay to win at regular intervals.

As for the rest of your post, i am not sure if this was a troll post or fearmongering or what. But your opinion on the worth of this chapter or any other chapter, is strictly your opinion. If it is not worth the price to you, don't buy it. There is nothing in the chapter that you need to have a fun and successful time in ESO.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

ThorianB wrote: »

simpledude31998 wrote: »

Brief answer to the question - it's paywall.

I am concerned that very little attention has been paid to this huge problem.
So, I'll start by saying that I love TESO. I discuss it with my friends, also i always recommend it when our dialog flows into the topic about games. So far I have personally recruited 5 people to buy and play this MMO (I understand that this is a drop in the ocean, but I do not pretend to be a promoter). And my main argument is that there is no PAYWALL.

Unfortunately, things are changing now.

When a company brings out new content, that is not pay 2 win. People REALLY need to learn what pay 2 win mean. Paid expansions are a normal part of a healthy MMO. If people have issues with regularly having to pay to continue to play a game, then they need to just stay out of the MMO genre of games because these games either require everyone pays a little bit, some people pay a moderate amount, or a few people( whales) pay to win at regular intervals.

As for the rest of your post, i am not sure if this was a troll post or fearmongering or what. But your opinion on the worth of this chapter or any other chapter, is strictly your opinion. If it is not worth the price to you, don't buy it. There is nothing in the chapter that you need to have a fun and successful time in ESO.

When you play a game for 2 to 3 years, or like many of us, into the 7th year, it stops being a game and has become a hobby. A hobby I personally spend around $400 a year on with ESO+ and crown sales. You can't "win" at a hobby, you have fun and enjoy it. If you're trying to "win" here you're in the wrong game.

There is no "pay to win." You either pay to play the game or you don't play. Anyone who wants an example of pay to win just go play BDO for awhile. After about 4 to 5 weeks you'll know all you'll want about "pay to win". (you get the choice of paying real money to go past level 54 or spend 5 to 7 years grinding for it) All things considered, even with it's problems, ESO is still a pretty good entertainment value.

MerguezMan

Ok OP, wait a second. Let's calm down, and take things for what they are.

ZoS is a commercial company. Which means it makes games in exchange for money.

ESO has no mandatory subscription, once you buy the base game, and you can play as much as you feel like. We had imperial city free, Murkmire free (for people connecting everyday at the good time), the base game can be bought fairly cheap including previous chapters, and you can trade ingame to buy DLCs.

You could wait 12 months and buy chapter with ingame money, which wouldn't cost a single IRL penny.

So first, you have to consider ZoS needs money to keep the game in a living state with updates every 3 months, even if some part of the playerbase doesn't spend money AT ALL (for instance, I haven't spend IRL money on dungeon packs in 3 years of playing, and I cleared every single dungeon, DLC included). Which is great.

Second, there is no hurry getting the new chapter on release : most day 1 bugs will take several weeks being fixed, and some motifs will only be added on next update. By waiting at least 3 months, you make sure you will experience the best out of it, and hopefully at that point the chapter will be on discount (hello, Cyber Monday).

Third, yes, the new sets and items are appealing, sometimes a bit overtweaked, but it also means they will be nerfed next update (check Necromancer day 1 builds, see for yourself), and you would lose invested ressources in those nerfed builds. Don't rush in spending rare ressources on things that are ultimately doomed. You probably have achievements or challenges you did not clear yet in the content you already own.

Four, we are still far from "pay to win", there are very decent builds using only base game assets that can compete with the last high-end brand new build that comes with each DLC. Sets don't replace skill, whatever you may hear.

ESO is an expanding MMO, there are pay points, and ZoS allows free workarounds. Please keep that in mind before complaining that new content has a price.

This_0ne

Why you talk about P2W in game with housing mane content? PVE and PVP is only 5% of all content what this game offer)

Marto

simpledude31998 wrote: »

[*] New zone - alright cool, i and a lot of other players will finish it with 2-3 days (it's subjective opinion - i'm not really interesting in zone)

And there's your problem.

The new zone, its story, characters, music, and locals to explore... That's the meat and potatoes of Elder Scrolls Online. It's what the developers spend the vast majority of their money, time, and effort into.

Everything else, like dungeons, trials, PVP, itemization, crafting, etc. are all extras sprinkled on top.

Of course you can play ESO in multiple ways, and they're all valid. And the devs encourage you to try varied activities!

But if you try to measure the worth of a new DLC or chapter because of only one feature it might or might not have, you're going to be disappointed nine out of ten times.

rpa

Daraklus wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

New zone - alright cool, i and a lot of other players will finish it with 2-3 days (it's subjective opinion - i'm not really interesting in zone); New overland and crafting sets, and this is what i'm personally like that even without having a chapter, you still could craft or buy this sets on market;

I always wonder why people who have no interest in questing and exploring decide to play an Elder Scrolls game and then complain that the main content of an expansion is questing and exploring when the entire franchise is based on QUESTING AND EXPLORING.

It is a mystery to me as well, even had arguments with people who hate playing the game but play it anyway for one reason or another. I don't quite understand it.

Personally I bought Blackwood because I am interested in seeing the layout of ESO's interpretation of an area within Oblivion and to see what the quests are like. I would feel more excited however, if I could actually play through these zones with a max level character.

Layout:

It's big and rather empty.

I made a new non-template cp0 char on PTS and played through Blackwood main story (finished just below lv14) with a weapon and few pieces of whatever junk armor dropped.Main challenge was travelling around large, empty zone with no Ring of the Wild Hunt or Continuous Attack passive. Other than that, almost as easy as overland questing with a properly build high CP char. Of course can't solo WB or dungeons and story finale boss took minutes to kill and getting killed if standing in red for too long is a possibility but still...

DovahkiinHeart

Imho, I don't feel like it's necessarily pay to win. If there is any game that feels more p2w then it would be black desert online.

I do however agree that this chapter doesn't rly add anything unique that meets the interest of all the players this time (ranging from very casual questers/solo players to the hardcore pve/pvpers who run in organized and coordinated groups). Companions only truly benefit the former, or players who are just starting out and therefore haven't built connections and friend networks to easily engage in group content. As a end level pver, I can easily take down nearly all overland monsters by myself (except the newer world events like dragon and harrowstorms, but those can't be done with just a companion if no one is nearby which is really the only use I can think of for a companion for an experienced player who like myself (not trying to sound arrogant but just stating the truth).

So tl;DR I'm still sitting on the fence about this new expansion and I'll just wait and see just how valuable the new sets and mythic are. I've already done all trifecta that I can find a group to do the new trial trifecta with if I decide to buy BW a month or so after release when it's on sale.

hakan

i dont agree with you saying pvp is bound by meta. i think its vice versa.

in pve there is only one bis. not in pvp imo, which has a lot of build options. but ill admit the last year and maybe before the proc meta really killed a lot of variety.

Danikat

Are mythic items really that good?

Some people in this thread are talking about them as if PvP will be unplayable without them, but I didn't think they made that much of a difference. (I've heard some players complaining they're not worth the time they take to find, but again I'm not sure if they're just exaggerating for the sake of being dramatic.)

Surely there's other alternatives if you don't want to buy Blackwood.

Lixiviant

I'm actually looking forward to playing the new chapter. Unfortunately, I'm too cheap at this time to buy it (I need to renew ESO Plus next week). But if it goes on sale, I'll pick it up. I'm one of those that playing the dungeons solo, so a companion would be a nice add.

Iccotak

Stanx wrote: »

simpledude31998 wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

I'm confused, the first half of your post seems to be saying that the problem is there's no reason to buy Blackwood, then the second half of your post is all about feeling pressured to buy it because it does include useful items. Which of these two is the problem?

The problem is in ZOS sales policy. Since last year I was afraid that they would manipulate by placing OP Mythic items in new chapter. That's exactly what happened. And i just want to reveal this problem. I know a lot of people who will buy BW just because of Mythics(they artificially forced to do it), this is not only my problem. And the problem is in manipulation, that ZOS don't provide us something that worth 2 pay full price( really i don't know person who will buy this chapter because it's main feature) they provide us with content which we already bought and thus create paywall.

This isn't a manipulation or a problem, this was always going to be the way they rolled out new content..

This has been their method of releasing new skills, items, services etc. from day 1. You're just complaining because you don't think this chapter has enough to cater to your specific playstyle.

This is really what it is going to come down to for the majority of complaints

rbfrgsp

People would be angry if they continued to release annual, paid content.

People would be angry if they charged you everything in a one-time, up-front fee then released annual content at no additional cost, because the initial price would be >$500.

People would be angry if the game closed for good because the staff and servers were being asked to operate for free because players just didn't want to pay any more.

But what would be really interesting to see is how big the overlap of those three groups is when plotted on a Venn diagram.

divnyi

Danikat wrote: »

Are mythic items really that good?

Yes. Yes, they are.

You can run one 5pc set, 2pc monster and 2 weapon sets +2 trainee. If you go malacath ring route, you can have 4 proc sets sitting on heavy armor with 35k HP and dealing all the damage in the world without any offensive stat. 20k bursts without ulti.

They are nerfing it only now. People were crying about proc meta for.. well, since it released and meta was guessed.

This time, they want to introduce this: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/570587/gaze-of-sithis/p1

There will be no guessing, people will run in on full-damage setups to have 30k armor 30k HP with wicked sick damage. If that goes live without any tweaks, PvP will be ruined even worse than during proc meta.

Shantu

I don't mind paying for content, such as it is, as I feel it's a gesture of support. But the near constant influx of sweeping combat changes in the last couple of years really have me back on my heels in regard to purchasing Blackwood. I believe people play video games for a sense of empowerment. If you're into TESO combat, that's a hard nut to crack these days.