Need nerf to Purge and Rapid Maneuver

master_vanargand

Purge and Rapid Maneuver are destroying the game balance in PvP.
The ballgroup spams Purge and Rapid Maneuver.
This is god mode.
So Purge and Rapid Maneuver need to be nerfed.

[My request]
Change Purge's target to self only.
Change Rapid Maneuver's Major Expedition duration to 2 seconds.

Mr_Gallows

Yes... all purge skills should be self only or target ONE ally or yourself.

Generally movement speed is out of control... complete spaz-fest.

geonsocal

ummmm, and exactly what do some of the stamina based toons do???

just s.o.l. i guess...

purge from the support skill line is crazy expensive for a stam toon...

thinking about all the different classes now, but, pretty sure they don't all have access to some type of "purge" within their class skill...

the only class "purge" type abilities i can think of at the moment belong to templar and necromancer...

wish there was some type of potion which removed negative effects...

long ago now, but, i remember once equipping wyrd tree's blessing on my werewolf just to try and stop from not getting stuck every second during melee battles...

why does it seem everyone always want to make solo players lives in cyro more challenging...thanks goodness us random potatoes can at least heal one another again...

master_vanargand

geonsocal wrote: »

ummmm, and exactly what do some of the stamina based toons do???

just s.o.l. i guess...

purge from the support skill line is crazy expensive for a stam toon...

thinking about all the different classes now, but, pretty sure they don't all have access to some type of "purge" within their class skill...

the only class "purge" type abilities i can think of at the moment belong to templar and necromancer...

wish there was some type of potion which removed negative effects...

long ago now, but, i remember once equipping wyrd tree's blessing on my werewolf just to try and stop from not getting stuck every second during melee battles...

why does it seem everyone always want to make solo players lives in cyro more challenging...thanks goodness us random potatoes can at least heal one another again...

If Purge's target to self only, need reduce its cost a little.
Now the ball group Purge spam is definitely god mode in PvP.
It makes dot skills and siege meaningless.
From this, Purge is clearly destroying the game balance.

divnyi

This thread is fun.

Both skills sit in the assault/support lines, which are supposed to be group utilities.

master_vanargand

divnyi wrote: »

This thread is fun.

Both skills sit in the assault/support lines, which are supposed to be group utilities.

Yes, but Purge and Rapid Maneuver is over powered.

Thanos7895

I would agree if a global CC immunity was added after breaking free from a CC for a short period of time. CCs is this game are overpowered as well.

SHOW

divnyi wrote: »

This thread is fun.

Both skills sit in the assault/support lines, which are supposed to be group utilities.

...what kind of argument is that?

"Something is broken, but we can't fix it because arbitrary reasons"

purge has been abused for entirely too long.

make it single target, make it reasonably priced.

These two things have been why it has been unusable by 95% of the community, yet abused to hell by the rest.

Fix it.

geonsocal

even if you gave me a reduced magicka cost & a stamina version of purge - i would still wanna buff my allies with regen, shields, heals, major brutality/sorcery and so on...including cleansing them...

if you understand how to support your allies, you can make a big difference in fights...

I play ps4/eu & na, a lot of times during "off-hours" times, i play solo, lot of small scale fighting, particularly on eu...i've been playing solo with the same group of normally also solo players themselves for years, we generally all work together really well, it's fun...

were DC of course, which by far has the most solo players on both servers...

point of the story being - I get the whole: I hate ball groups thing...

i get my butt kicked by both small and larger groups more often than I like, when there's no bars showing on the map things can get interesting...the enemies fighting in groups have a distinct advantage - as they reasonably should...

to make cleansing a solo activity would really curtail me and my fellow potatoes ability to help one another to win fights...

wanna stop groups - give us more sets like VD, and have em proc off siege...that'll spread folks out...

master_vanargand

geonsocal wrote: »

even if you gave me a reduced magicka cost & a stamina version of purge - i would still wanna buff my allies with regen, shields, heals, major brutality/sorcery and so on...including cleansing them...

if you understand how to support your allies, you can make a big difference in fights...

I play ps4/eu & na, a lot of times during "off-hours" times, i play solo, lot of small scale fighting, particularly on eu...i've been playing solo with the same group of normally also solo players themselves for years, we generally all work together really well, it's fun...

were DC of course, which by far has the most solo players on both servers...

point of the story being - I get the whole: I hate ball groups thing...

i get my butt kicked by both small and larger groups more often than I like, when there's no bars showing on the map things can get interesting...the enemies fighting in groups have a distinct advantage - as they reasonably should...

to make cleansing a solo activity would really curtail me and my fellow potatoes ability to help one another to win fights...

wanna stop groups - give us more sets like VD, and have em proc off siege...that'll spread folks out...

Groups are fun as long as there is teamwork.
Even if Purge and Rapid Maneuver nerf, the fun of the group will not change.

KhajiitLivesMatter

nerf rapid manouver wow now i have seen everything litterly a flame thread about the worst skill ingame cause it provids literly nothing for insane high costs xD

and purge is fine btw to

KhajiitLivesMatter

Thanos7895 wrote: »

I would agree if a global CC immunity was added after breaking free from a CC for a short period of time. CCs is this game are overpowered as well.

that is exactly how it works
if u break free u get i think 6 second immunity
has been like that for years nothing new

divnyi

[snip]

I run both on heavy attack build in BGs. It is far from "regen trolls" as it does good damage. I don't want self-purge, besides, it will water down class purges if it becomes cheap neutral mechanic.

You are stam? Good, then you probably can use Rapid Maneuver instead of asking for nerfs. Or you will say that you don't have resources for that again?

[edited to remove quoted content]

ZOS_Ragnar

Hello! We have removed a few comments that were not adding to the discussion and started to derail the conversation. Please remember to be respectful and constructive at all times on our forums.

To help ensure the forums remain welcoming to all members of the community, please ensure your posts abide by our forum rules.

Thank you for your understanding.

SHOW

divnyi wrote: »

[snip]

I run both on heavy attack build in BGs. It is far from "regen trolls" as it does good damage. I don't want self-purge, besides, it will water down class purges if it becomes cheap neutral mechanic.

You are stam? Good, then you probably can use Rapid Maneuver instead of asking for nerfs. Or you will say that you don't have resources for that again?

[edited to remove quoted content]

u can prob afford 5-7K mag cost per cast when ur just heavy attacking LOL

The rest of the community cannot, however.

Giving the community access to a counterplay is a good thing.

It shouldnt be that u need someone with a dedicated purge build following u around to have access to that ability LOL that is preposterous.

How can u argue that?

divnyi

SHOW wrote: »

It shouldnt be that u need someone with a dedicated purge build following u around to have access to that ability LOL that is preposterous.

How can u argue that?

I can argue that *everyone* needs good personal purge ability. Sorry, but this isn't really a thing. You want to remove group ulitity ability to make duelists even better. I love group utilities and group utility sets, and I don't want game to remove every effective utility tool just because you lose to ball groups.

And oh, BG healers definitely CAN afford to run purge. Yes, you need lots of regens, but you need them on healer anyway.

SHOW

Group utility can remain.

What is being requested is an individual option as well.

These are not mutually exclusive.

We can, and should, have options.

SHOW

that being said, back to OP's point.

Some guy mindlessly spamming purge in a group is not healthy for the game.

Everyone knows how broken that is, especially the guy spamming it, obviously.

That, and mindless hot spam/stacking, are obviously overdue for reevaluation.

Amottica

SHOW wrote: »

Group utility can remain.

What is being requested is an individual option as well.

These are not mutually exclusive.

We can, and should, have options.

So this is suggesting one morph be for self cleans only and another morph for group cleans? That sounds great though I suggest adding more utility to the self cleans option.

master_vanargand

SHOW wrote: »

that being said, back to OP's point.

Some guy mindlessly spamming purge in a group is not healthy for the game.

Everyone knows how broken that is, especially the guy spamming it, obviously.

That, and mindless hot spam/stacking, are obviously overdue for reevaluation.

That's true.
It's a way to make this game better.

Greasytengu

SHOW wrote: »

Group utility can remain.

What is being requested is an individual option as well.

These are not mutually exclusive.

We can, and should, have options.

Would be nice to se a solo version of rapids and purge, So long as there is still the group option.


Not all classes have a speed boosting ability, and while accelerate and its morphs are great, a stam speed boost would be appreciated.

Only 3 classes have any way of purging themselves so giving everyone access to a reliable and affordable purge would help even some of the class imbalance.


For group play the OG versions will still be best, but for small man and solo players this will provide a major boost. And while I love big huge fights, the servers cannot handle them. Zos should do more to encourage smaller fights and the first step is giving smaller groups the tools they need to survive.

Anyron

divnyi wrote: »

This thread is fun.

Both skills sit in the assault/support lines, which are supposed to be group utilities.

And weapon skills are meant to kill. Can i get aoe burst onehitter?

divnyi

Anyron wrote: »

And weapon skills are meant to kill. Can i get aoe burst onehitter?

Sorry, this mechanic is reserved for necros and wardens.

Thanos7895

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Thanos7895 wrote: »

I would agree if a global CC immunity was added after breaking free from a CC for a short period of time. CCs is this game are overpowered as well.

that is exactly how it works
if u break free u get i think 6 second immunity
has been like that for years nothing new

Except it hasn't worked for years.

gariondavey

Both are fine

master_vanargand

Another solution is to increase the cost of Purge and Rapid Maneuver.
Purge should double the cost and Rapid Maneuver should quadruple the cost.

Greasytengu

master_vanargand wrote: »

Another solution is to increase the cost of Purge and Rapid Maneuver.
Purge should double the cost and Rapid Maneuver should quadruple the cost.

So you want Rapids to cost 26740 stamina for a 8 second speed boost, and you want purge to cost 15660 magicka to remove 3 effects?


Do you want the skills to be 100% out of reach for small man groups and solo players, I mean its almost out of reach for them now but with those cost increases only organized groups will be able to use them ever.

master_vanargand

The cost of Efficient Purge for Purge morph is 5400 Magicka.
Even if it doubles, it's 10800.
Moreover, it can be cost-cut with skills.
Even so, spamming Efficient Purge requires a large number of people, but it is possible.

Also, the Rapid Maneuver morph Charging Maneuver costs 6156 stamina.
Even if it quadruples, it's 24624.
It has a duration of 8 seconds.
There is also the Minor Expedition.
Moreover, it can be cost-cut with skills.
Even so, spamming Efficient Purge requires a large number of people, but it is possible.
But with Charging Maneuver, the cost of Break Free is lost and Stun is deadly.

In this case, spamming Efficient Purge and Charging Maneuver would probably require 6 professional staff.
The number of people in the group is 12, so half of that is needed.

That is a trade-off.

When Ballgroup spams Efficient Purge and Charging Maneuver, it reduces attacks.
If the Ballgroup wants to increase its attacks and heals, it should give up spamming the Efficient Purge and Charging Maneuver.

This suggestion sounds like a bad joke, but Efficient Purge and Charging Maneuver are super over powered now.

But I first said a much better idea than that.

master_vanargand wrote: »

Purge and Rapid Maneuver are destroying the game balance in PvP.
The ballgroup spams Purge and Rapid Maneuver.
This is god mode.
So Purge and Rapid Maneuver need to be nerfed.

[My request]
Change Purge's target to self only.
Change Rapid Maneuver's Major Expedition duration to 2 seconds.

Greasytengu

master_vanargand wrote: »

The cost of Efficient Purge for Purge morph is 5400 Magicka.
Even if it doubles, it's 10800.
Moreover, it can be cost-cut with skills.
Even so, spamming Efficient Purge requires a large number of people, but it is possible.

Also, the Rapid Maneuver morph Charging Maneuver costs 6156 stamina.
Even if it quadruples, it's 24624.
It has a duration of 8 seconds.
There is also the Minor Expedition.
Moreover, it can be cost-cut with skills.
Even so, spamming Efficient Purge requires a large number of people, but it is possible.
But with Charging Maneuver, the cost of Break Free is lost and Stun is deadly.

In this case, spamming Efficient Purge and Charging Maneuver would probably require 6 professional staff.
The number of people in the group is 12, so half of that is needed.

That is a trade-off.

When Ballgroup spams Efficient Purge and Charging Maneuver, it reduces attacks.
If the Ballgroup wants to increase its attacks and heals, it should give up spamming the Efficient Purge and Charging Maneuver.

This suggestion sounds like a bad joke, but Efficient Purge and Charging Maneuver are super over powered now.

But I first said a much better idea than that.

master_vanargand wrote: »

Purge and Rapid Maneuver are destroying the game balance in PvP.
The ballgroup spams Purge and Rapid Maneuver.
This is god mode.
So Purge and Rapid Maneuver need to be nerfed.

[My request]
Change Purge's target to self only.
Change Rapid Maneuver's Major Expedition duration to 2 seconds.

So you just suggest a super crazy solution to make you slightly less crazy solution seem more sane?

Only organized groups will be able to use the abilities if you jack up the costs. A full pug group is not going to be able to dedicate 6 people to just spamming purge/rapids. A small group probably wont be able to have one person doing it. A ball group will adjust to this change better than anyone else.

If you change rapids's duration to 2 second then organized groups will get everyone to run race against time or whatever speed buff their class has. Either that or they will just cut it out all togeather and be 100% fine. Speed really isnt that important when facing a CC spamming zerg anyways.

If you make purge single target only without changing its cost, then the gap between classes with their own self purge and classes without grow further. Wardens, Necros, and Templars will make up the bulk of played classes.


Any nerf will affect pugs and small mans more than it will ball groups.


Also how are skill that are available to everyone in Cyrodiil unbalancing the game? Everyone has equal access to these tools.

master_vanargand

Greasytengu wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

The cost of Efficient Purge for Purge morph is 5400 Magicka.
Even if it doubles, it's 10800.
Moreover, it can be cost-cut with skills.
Even so, spamming Efficient Purge requires a large number of people, but it is possible.

Also, the Rapid Maneuver morph Charging Maneuver costs 6156 stamina.
Even if it quadruples, it's 24624.
It has a duration of 8 seconds.
There is also the Minor Expedition.
Moreover, it can be cost-cut with skills.
Even so, spamming Efficient Purge requires a large number of people, but it is possible.
But with Charging Maneuver, the cost of Break Free is lost and Stun is deadly.

In this case, spamming Efficient Purge and Charging Maneuver would probably require 6 professional staff.
The number of people in the group is 12, so half of that is needed.

That is a trade-off.

When Ballgroup spams Efficient Purge and Charging Maneuver, it reduces attacks.
If the Ballgroup wants to increase its attacks and heals, it should give up spamming the Efficient Purge and Charging Maneuver.

This suggestion sounds like a bad joke, but Efficient Purge and Charging Maneuver are super over powered now.

But I first said a much better idea than that.

master_vanargand wrote: »

Purge and Rapid Maneuver are destroying the game balance in PvP.
The ballgroup spams Purge and Rapid Maneuver.
This is god mode.
So Purge and Rapid Maneuver need to be nerfed.

[My request]
Change Purge's target to self only.
Change Rapid Maneuver's Major Expedition duration to 2 seconds.

So you just suggest a super crazy solution to make you slightly less crazy solution seem more sane?

Only organized groups will be able to use the abilities if you jack up the costs. A full pug group is not going to be able to dedicate 6 people to just spamming purge/rapids. A small group probably wont be able to have one person doing it. A ball group will adjust to this change better than anyone else.

If you change rapids's duration to 2 second then organized groups will get everyone to run race against time or whatever speed buff their class has. Either that or they will just cut it out all togeather and be 100% fine. Speed really isnt that important when facing a CC spamming zerg anyways.

If you make purge single target only without changing its cost, then the gap between classes with their own self purge and classes without grow further. Wardens, Necros, and Templars will make up the bulk of played classes.


Any nerf will affect pugs and small mans more than it will ball groups.


Also how are skill that are available to everyone in Cyrodiil unbalancing the game? Everyone has equal access to these tools.

Significantly increasing the cost of Efficient Purge and Charging Maneuver makes Ballgroup much weaker.
This aidea greatly reduces the number of people who can focus on Ballgroup attacks and Heals.
However, this is an extreme story.

The only realistic ideas are:
Change Purge's target to self only.
Change Rapid Maneuver's Major Expedition duration to 2 seconds.
Or remove the Rapid Maneuver's Major Expedition and change it to "removes all snares and immobilizations from you and grants immunity to them for 2 seconds".

Greasytengu

It might make ball groups weaker, but it will make groups in general much weaker. Things like this will hurt unorganized groups harder than it will Ball groups.

I think the ideal solution is to make the unmorphed versions single target and cheap so its more accessible to smaller groups and soloers.