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DK Inhale and its morphs requested change.
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WaltherCarraway✭✭✭✭✭They are going to buff the* archnemesis of DKEdited by WaltherCarraway on July 13, 2021 4:43AMBack from my last hiatus. 2021 a new start.0 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PTS weekly update, Inhale cost to damage ratio is still out of balance.
Stay safe
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Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PTS weekly reminder that Inhale skill cost is still high in cost compared to it's damage output compared to similar skills.
Stay safe everyone and ZOS please fix the green tree micromanaging 1 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Another PTS reminder that inhale skill cost to much compared to damage output.
Stay safe everyone and ZOS please fix the green tree micromanaging 2 -
Faint_One✭✭✭and one small change I request makes inferno and it's morph affect by searing heat passive0 -
ke.sardenb14_ESO✭✭✭I still maintain stamina either needs a morph and mag needs a cost reduction.Edited by ke.sardenb14_ESO on August 2, 2021 10:22AM0 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yet again another PTS reminder that inhale skill cost to much compared to damage output.
Stay safe everyone and ZOS please fix the green tree micromanaging 3 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Late this week but Inhale is still too expensive compared to other skills vs. its damage output. Where are the standards for this skill compared to others?
Stay safe everyone and ZOS please fix the green tree micromanaging
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ResidentContrarian✭✭✭✭✭Why are people trying to overbuff this skill?
It's not weak and already does good damage, esp. considering a heal and interrupt are both connected to it.
Next patch, even better stat-stacking will be possible and I can see that explosion increasing past 12k damage on even a build with decent sustain.
Already on live, inhale -> leap -> flame pulsar is plenty strong esp. in a 1vX scenario or on breach...well maybe I am just a Contrarian.1 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ResidentContrarian wrote: »Why are people trying to overbuff this skill?
It's not weak and already does good damage, esp. considering a heal and interrupt are both connected to it.
Next patch, even better stat-stacking will be possible and I can see that explosion increasing past 12k damage on even a build with decent sustain.
Already on live, inhale -> leap -> flame pulsar is plenty strong esp. in a 1vX scenario or on breach...well maybe I am just a Contrarian.
I think because the magDK kit overall has high ability costs, inhale being so expensive just makes it hard to use. I also think that having a heal and interrupt component to the skill is unnecessary. I would rather they remove one of those and reduce the cost.2 -
ResidentContrarian✭✭✭✭✭ResidentContrarian wrote: »Why are people trying to overbuff this skill?
It's not weak and already does good damage, esp. considering a heal and interrupt are both connected to it.
Next patch, even better stat-stacking will be possible and I can see that explosion increasing past 12k damage on even a build with decent sustain.
Already on live, inhale -> leap -> flame pulsar is plenty strong esp. in a 1vX scenario or on breach...well maybe I am just a Contrarian.
I think because the magDK kit overall has high ability costs, inhale being so expensive just makes it hard to use. I also think that having a heal and interrupt component to the skill is unnecessary. I would rather they remove one of those and reduce the cost.
As long as it heals, does damage, and has the potential to heal more than Honor the Dead/Healing Ward I can bet the cost will never be decreased.
The skill simply isn't meant to be spammed without sacrificing for it, in either damage or defense, in its current state and ZOS (hopefully) is not naive enough to take the forums seriously. If not, then the future will be a cost reduction, and down the line they will just cut the damage and healing by around 15-20% or whatever number is greater than the amount of % cost reduction the skill gets, to account for builds that can spam it already and do damage.
Also, I disagree in that utility and healing on the skill should go in favor of more damage or sustain. The reason is because damage and sustain always gets nerfed down the line across the board, without utility the skill will simply fade into irrelevance eventually.
Then there is also that DK, even though it does stink in PvP esp. on the mag side, still has good points. Increasing the damage on the class will simply make those good points a target for nerfs in the future and accomplish nothing.
It's odd that players are investing time discussing this skill and changing it, yet no one is discussing DoTs and the fact that they are completely irrelevant for the most part except on two builds?1 -
Elendir2am✭✭✭✭ResidentContrarian wrote: »Why are people trying to overbuff this skill?
It's not weak and already does good damage, esp. considering a heal and interrupt are both connected to it.
Skill looks great, if you consider all 3 effects: damage, healing and interrupting. How often do you get it in reality? Very rarely.
With good using, you utilize 2 aspects.
It makes skill pretty expensive, if you pay so much magicka and need still good timing with skill to get some fruit, otherwise you nailed the nail to your own coffin named sustainability.
PvP - Recruit.
PvE - Dragon food
RPG - A guy who thought, that he can defeat daedric prince, yet guards still chase him off when he accidentally touches some object during daily writs.3 -
Jameson18✭✭✭✭✭Add a "with an earthen heart ability slotted; reduce the magicka cost of your ardent flame and draconic power abilities by 10%" to the "Helping Hands" passive and call it a day.1
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Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Add a "with an earthen heart ability slotted; reduce the magicka cost of your ardent flame and draconic power abilities by 10%" to the "Helping Hands" passive and call it a day.
Even a 10% cost reduction would not be nearly enough compare to cost vs. damage when compared to other burst delayed skills.
Dragonknight
Deep Breath - Cost: 4050 Magicka - Total damage 3119 Damage vs. cost output 3119/4050 = 0.77 damage for every 1 point of magic spent.
Draw Essence - Cost: 4050 Magicka - Total damage 2624 Cost vs. damage output 2624/4050 = 0.647damage for every 1 point of magic spent.
Necromancer
Blighted Blastbones - Cost: 2295 Stamina - Damage vs. cost output 4737/2295 = 2.064 damage for every 1 point of stamina spent.
Stalking Blastbones - Cost: 2700 Magicka - Damage vs. cost output 3600/2700 = 1.333 damage for every 1 point of magic spent.
Warden
Subterranean Assault - Cost: 2066 Stamina - Damage vs. cost output 4264/2066 = 2.063 damage for every 1 point of stamina spent, don't forget if fires a second time free. 4264x2/2066 = 4.125 damage for every 1 point of stamina spent.
Deep Fissure - Cost: 2430 Magicka - Damage vs. cost output 3240/2430 = 1.333 damage for every 1 point of magic spent.
What I would like to see is the cost reduced to meet the standards of the other 2 delayed skills and one to become stamina based.
Stay safe everyone and ZOS please fix the green tree micromanaging 3 -
Jameson18✭✭✭✭✭Add a "with an earthen heart ability slotted; reduce the magicka cost of your ardent flame and draconic power abilities by 10%" to the "Helping Hands" passive and call it a day.
Even a 10% cost reduction would not be nearly enough compare to cost vs. damage when compared to other burst delayed skills.
What I would like to see is the cost reduced to meet the standards of the other 2 delayed skills and one to become stamina based.
Stay safe everyone and ZOS please fix the green tree micromanaging
I'd rather see an overall cost reduction. Nothing crazy either. If it's adjusted too far, it'll be out of balance.
I use deep breath. A lot. I also fight outnumbered a lot. I've no real complaints about it other than the cost, which mostly pertains to overall costs on magicka skills on DK. If Mag DK sustain was adjusted a slight bit, it's basically a non issue. At least for me.
The only real reason it all even seems that way is because the functionality is different. The Mag DK is more about dots, crowd control, and endurance. Giving too much of a boost to sustain or cost reduction to any one particular skill and it could lead to people not needing to be mindful of resource resulting in much higher damage builds and then an imbalance exacerbated through popularity etc. At least in pvp.
These are just my opinions and observations. I play Mag DK in pvp a LOT. With the track record for over adjustment, I'd rather not see something over tuned just to get nerfed into the ground later.1 -
Greek_Hellspawn✭✭✭✭Add a "with an earthen heart ability slotted; reduce the magicka cost of your ardent flame and draconic power abilities by 10%" to the "Helping Hands" passive and call it a day.
Even a 10% cost reduction would not be nearly enough compare to cost vs. damage when compared to other burst delayed skills.
What I would like to see is the cost reduced to meet the standards of the other 2 delayed skills and one to become stamina based.
Stay safe everyone and ZOS please fix the green tree micromanaging
I'd rather see an overall cost reduction. Nothing crazy either. If it's adjusted too far, it'll be out of balance.
I use deep breath. A lot. I also fight outnumbered a lot. I've no real complaints about it other than the cost, which mostly pertains to overall costs on magicka skills on DK. If Mag DK sustain was adjusted a slight bit, it's basically a non issue. At least for me.
The only real reason it all even seems that way is because the functionality is different. The Mag DK is more about dots, crowd control, and endurance. Giving too much of a boost to sustain or cost reduction to any one particular skill and it could lead to people not needing to be mindful of resource resulting in much higher damage builds and then an imbalance exacerbated through popularity etc. At least in pvp.
These are just my opinions and observations. I play Mag DK in pvp a LOT. With the track record for over adjustment, I'd rather not see something over tuned just to get nerfed into the ground later.
It's true that magdk is all about dots and cc but when you fight an opponent that has easy access to clense is frustrating, that's why people ask for a viable burst damage skill for dk.
I personally think only mag deserves one tho, because stam has stronger damage on venomous claw than burning embers and better spammable dizzy than whip, plus has execute.
The buff to stam would be huge if it was given stam morph the burst plus strong dots would make it broken imo.
Leave both morphs mag, one for pure delayed burst dmg and one for utility interrupt heal and mag return.Edited by Greek_Hellspawn on August 17, 2021 4:34PM1 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »I personally think only mag deserves one tho, because stam has stronger damage on venomous claw than burning embers and better spammable dizzy than whip, plus has execute.
The buff to stam would be huge if it was given stam morph the burst plus strong dots would make it broken imo.
Do you have in mind something for StamDK to have some unique competitive edge over StamDen or StamCro? When comparing StamDK and MagDK I think right now MagDK outperforms StamDK offensively only in 1v1 on account of Whip, but, MagDK is slightly more relevant in large groups, even if only because Mag can more sustainably provide Talons and Chains, and maybe Molten Armaments. I don't think it's controversial to say StamCro is a superior duelist to StamDK and both StamDen and StamCro are superior conveyers of Bombard and Whirling Blades in large groups. With MagDK gaining penetration from Corrosive, there's not much that makes StamDK an interesting choice over MagDK, StamDen, StamCro, or even StamSorc, really, whereas MagDK retains some unique edge over MagCro, MagSorc, and MagDen, even if that edge is very limited and situational.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast1 -
Greek_Hellspawn✭✭✭✭Urzigurumash wrote: »Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »I personally think only mag deserves one tho, because stam has stronger damage on venomous claw than burning embers and better spammable dizzy than whip, plus has execute.
The buff to stam would be huge if it was given stam morph the burst plus strong dots would make it broken imo.
Do you have in mind something for StamDK to have some unique competitive edge over StamDen or StamCro? When comparing StamDK and MagDK I think right now MagDK outperforms StamDK offensively only in 1v1 on account of Whip, but, MagDK is slightly more relevant in large groups, even if only because Mag can more sustainably provide Talons and Chains, and maybe Molten Armaments. I don't think it's controversial to say StamCro is a superior duelist to StamDK and both StamDen and StamCro are superior conveyers of Bombard and Whirling Blades in large groups. With MagDK gaining penetration from Corrosive, there's not much that makes StamDK an interesting choice over MagDK, StamDen, StamCro, or even StamSorc, really, whereas MagDK retains some unique edge over MagCro, MagSorc, and MagDen, even if that edge is very limited and situational.
No one has competitive edge over stam warden and necro, they are the best specs in the game.
I get what you say but as i said stam dk is already in a good spot, giving him delayed burst would make the class as good as stam warden/necro or even better.
Those 2 specs have been meta since forever we don't need yet another op stam class.
The only skill i could see given to stam dk justifiably is a poison morph for talons.
Just my opinion. 🤷♂️🤷♂️Edited by Greek_Hellspawn on August 18, 2021 7:08AM1 -
Jameson18✭✭✭✭✭@Greek_Hellspawn
Valid points on your last 2 comments here.
In regard to a burst tool, I'd almost rather see lava whip slightly increased then? - Mostly because, in my opinion, mag dk is one of the most entertaining and fullfilling play styles. If we change too much stuff or super power up a different particular skill, that might take that away.
It definitely sucks about the dots. Its the real downfall. Half of everyone and most groups you come across will have a way to cleanse them.
Perhaps engulfing flame should see magicka return if cleansed. Or a small detonation.
I think a larger root cause to so many "this class/spec is op" "this class/spec needs help" etc. is due to how the game and other skill lines have been introduced or evolved.
3 classes have access to a cleanse/purge ability. Everyone has access to the alliance war lines, which contain one as well.
I can generally tell you how well I'll do in a BG at the start by looking at the classes on the other teams. I'll switch up my "combo rotation" etc. depending on it at times, but I know going in that if there are a lot of wardens, necros, or expecially templars, i'm going to see less overall damage on the scoreboard and have to work a lot harder for some of my kbs or taking an objective node.
I'm not sure of a solution. Its just my 2 cents on the root of the theoretical problem.
Otherwise, I have no real* complaints. I understand that each class and spec has its ups and downs and Mag DK is one of my favorites and most enjoyed.0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »I personally think only mag deserves one tho, because stam has stronger damage on venomous claw than burning embers and better spammable dizzy than whip, plus has execute.
The buff to stam would be huge if it was given stam morph the burst plus strong dots would make it broken imo.
Do you have in mind something for StamDK to have some unique competitive edge over StamDen or StamCro? When comparing StamDK and MagDK I think right now MagDK outperforms StamDK offensively only in 1v1 on account of Whip, but, MagDK is slightly more relevant in large groups, even if only because Mag can more sustainably provide Talons and Chains, and maybe Molten Armaments. I don't think it's controversial to say StamCro is a superior duelist to StamDK and both StamDen and StamCro are superior conveyers of Bombard and Whirling Blades in large groups. With MagDK gaining penetration from Corrosive, there's not much that makes StamDK an interesting choice over MagDK, StamDen, StamCro, or even StamSorc, really, whereas MagDK retains some unique edge over MagCro, MagSorc, and MagDen, even if that edge is very limited and situational.
No one has competitive edge over stam warden and necro, they are the best specs in the game.
I get what you say but as i said stam dk is already in a good spot, giving him delayed burst would make the class as good as stam warden/necro or even better.
Those 2 specs have been meta since forever we don't need yet another op stam class.
The only skill i could see given to stam dk justifiably is a poison morph for talons.
Just my opinion. 🤷♂️🤷♂️
I don't know that it would make us better than StamCro/Den but point taken that MagDK isn't as good as them either.
Poison Talons might satisfy the issue that we don't have a role in an optimized large group, as I was implying that Stam Inhale could.
To express my point in other words, when you say DoTs can be purged and accordingly DK needs more Direct Damage - and that MagDK especially needs the additional DD because StamDK has access to stronger Weapon skills than MagDK - consider that StamDK faces opponents with those same weapon skills - and purges - and unique DD skills that Flames of Oblivion and Stone Giant - StamDK's only class Direct Damage - can't match. With MagDK getting Corrosive, the one and only thing StamDK offers over any other class is that Take Flight is a bit stronger than Ferocious Leap.
And sure, how the class kit interacts with Weapon Skills. In other words, the additional 2m range on Executioner. This is now StamDK's main unique feature. Not that I think MagDK should lose Corrosive - I think StamDK should get access to Inhale.
Edited by Urzigurumash on August 18, 2021 3:51PMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast1 -
Greek_Hellspawn✭✭✭✭Urzigurumash wrote: »Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »I personally think only mag deserves one tho, because stam has stronger damage on venomous claw than burning embers and better spammable dizzy than whip, plus has execute.
The buff to stam would be huge if it was given stam morph the burst plus strong dots would make it broken imo.
Do you have in mind something for StamDK to have some unique competitive edge over StamDen or StamCro? When comparing StamDK and MagDK I think right now MagDK outperforms StamDK offensively only in 1v1 on account of Whip, but, MagDK is slightly more relevant in large groups, even if only because Mag can more sustainably provide Talons and Chains, and maybe Molten Armaments. I don't think it's controversial to say StamCro is a superior duelist to StamDK and both StamDen and StamCro are superior conveyers of Bombard and Whirling Blades in large groups. With MagDK gaining penetration from Corrosive, there's not much that makes StamDK an interesting choice over MagDK, StamDen, StamCro, or even StamSorc, really, whereas MagDK retains some unique edge over MagCro, MagSorc, and MagDen, even if that edge is very limited and situational.
No one has competitive edge over stam warden and necro, they are the best specs in the game.
I get what you say but as i said stam dk is already in a good spot, giving him delayed burst would make the class as good as stam warden/necro or even better.
Those 2 specs have been meta since forever we don't need yet another op stam class.
The only skill i could see given to stam dk justifiably is a poison morph for talons.
Just my opinion. 🤷♂️🤷♂️
I don't know that it would make us better than StamCro/Den but point taken that MagDK isn't as good as them either.
Poison Talons might satisfy the issue that we don't have a role in an optimized large group, as I was implying that Stam Inhale could.
To express my point in other words, when you say DoTs can be purged and accordingly DK needs more Direct Damage - and that MagDK especially needs the additional DD because StamDK has access to stronger Weapon skills than MagDK - consider that StamDK faces opponents with those same weapon skills - and purges - and unique DD skills that Flames of Oblivion and Stone Giant - StamDK's only class Direct Damage - can't match. With MagDK getting Corrosive, the one and only thing StamDK offers over any other class is that Take Flight is a bit stronger than Ferocious Leap.
And sure, how the class kit interacts with Weapon Skills. In other words, the additional 2m range on Executioner. This is now StamDK's main unique feature. Not that I think MagDK should lose Corrosive - I think StamDK should get access to Inhale.
I don't think that corrosive will be used by magdks tho, they already don't have access to any kind of burst, at least for me i would never give up ferocious leap except if it was changed to they way it was before when it penetrated everything including dots.Edited by Greek_Hellspawn on August 18, 2021 4:41PM0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »I personally think only mag deserves one tho, because stam has stronger damage on venomous claw than burning embers and better spammable dizzy than whip, plus has execute.
The buff to stam would be huge if it was given stam morph the burst plus strong dots would make it broken imo.
Do you have in mind something for StamDK to have some unique competitive edge over StamDen or StamCro? When comparing StamDK and MagDK I think right now MagDK outperforms StamDK offensively only in 1v1 on account of Whip, but, MagDK is slightly more relevant in large groups, even if only because Mag can more sustainably provide Talons and Chains, and maybe Molten Armaments. I don't think it's controversial to say StamCro is a superior duelist to StamDK and both StamDen and StamCro are superior conveyers of Bombard and Whirling Blades in large groups. With MagDK gaining penetration from Corrosive, there's not much that makes StamDK an interesting choice over MagDK, StamDen, StamCro, or even StamSorc, really, whereas MagDK retains some unique edge over MagCro, MagSorc, and MagDen, even if that edge is very limited and situational.
No one has competitive edge over stam warden and necro, they are the best specs in the game.
I get what you say but as i said stam dk is already in a good spot, giving him delayed burst would make the class as good as stam warden/necro or even better.
Those 2 specs have been meta since forever we don't need yet another op stam class.
The only skill i could see given to stam dk justifiably is a poison morph for talons.
Just my opinion. 🤷♂️🤷♂️
I don't know that it would make us better than StamCro/Den but point taken that MagDK isn't as good as them either.
Poison Talons might satisfy the issue that we don't have a role in an optimized large group, as I was implying that Stam Inhale could.
To express my point in other words, when you say DoTs can be purged and accordingly DK needs more Direct Damage - and that MagDK especially needs the additional DD because StamDK has access to stronger Weapon skills than MagDK - consider that StamDK faces opponents with those same weapon skills - and purges - and unique DD skills that Flames of Oblivion and Stone Giant - StamDK's only class Direct Damage - can't match. With MagDK getting Corrosive, the one and only thing StamDK offers over any other class is that Take Flight is a bit stronger than Ferocious Leap.
And sure, how the class kit interacts with Weapon Skills. In other words, the additional 2m range on Executioner. This is now StamDK's main unique feature. Not that I think MagDK should lose Corrosive - I think StamDK should get access to Inhale.
I don't think that corrosive will be used by magdks tho, they already don't have access to any kind of burst, at least for me i would never give up ferocious leap except if it was changed to they way it was before when it penetrated everything including dots.
I guess we'll see whether Corrosive + Proxy + Inhale (in its present state) is worthwhile over Ferocious Leap - or Soul Tether.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
Greek_Hellspawn✭✭✭✭Urzigurumash wrote: »Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »I personally think only mag deserves one tho, because stam has stronger damage on venomous claw than burning embers and better spammable dizzy than whip, plus has execute.
The buff to stam would be huge if it was given stam morph the burst plus strong dots would make it broken imo.
Do you have in mind something for StamDK to have some unique competitive edge over StamDen or StamCro? When comparing StamDK and MagDK I think right now MagDK outperforms StamDK offensively only in 1v1 on account of Whip, but, MagDK is slightly more relevant in large groups, even if only because Mag can more sustainably provide Talons and Chains, and maybe Molten Armaments. I don't think it's controversial to say StamCro is a superior duelist to StamDK and both StamDen and StamCro are superior conveyers of Bombard and Whirling Blades in large groups. With MagDK gaining penetration from Corrosive, there's not much that makes StamDK an interesting choice over MagDK, StamDen, StamCro, or even StamSorc, really, whereas MagDK retains some unique edge over MagCro, MagSorc, and MagDen, even if that edge is very limited and situational.
No one has competitive edge over stam warden and necro, they are the best specs in the game.
I get what you say but as i said stam dk is already in a good spot, giving him delayed burst would make the class as good as stam warden/necro or even better.
Those 2 specs have been meta since forever we don't need yet another op stam class.
The only skill i could see given to stam dk justifiably is a poison morph for talons.
Just my opinion. 🤷♂️🤷♂️
I don't know that it would make us better than StamCro/Den but point taken that MagDK isn't as good as them either.
Poison Talons might satisfy the issue that we don't have a role in an optimized large group, as I was implying that Stam Inhale could.
To express my point in other words, when you say DoTs can be purged and accordingly DK needs more Direct Damage - and that MagDK especially needs the additional DD because StamDK has access to stronger Weapon skills than MagDK - consider that StamDK faces opponents with those same weapon skills - and purges - and unique DD skills that Flames of Oblivion and Stone Giant - StamDK's only class Direct Damage - can't match. With MagDK getting Corrosive, the one and only thing StamDK offers over any other class is that Take Flight is a bit stronger than Ferocious Leap.
And sure, how the class kit interacts with Weapon Skills. In other words, the additional 2m range on Executioner. This is now StamDK's main unique feature. Not that I think MagDK should lose Corrosive - I think StamDK should get access to Inhale.
I don't think that corrosive will be used by magdks tho, they already don't have access to any kind of burst, at least for me i would never give up ferocious leap except if it was changed to they way it was before when it penetrated everything including dots.
I guess we'll see whether Corrosive + Proxy + Inhale (in its present state) is worthwhile over Ferocious Leap - or Soul Tether.
For bombing it might i don't really have experience on bomber builds, but for a "normal" magdk build i doubt it will replace leap. (Smallscale/bgs)0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »Greek_Hellspawn wrote: »I personally think only mag deserves one tho, because stam has stronger damage on venomous claw than burning embers and better spammable dizzy than whip, plus has execute.
The buff to stam would be huge if it was given stam morph the burst plus strong dots would make it broken imo.
Do you have in mind something for StamDK to have some unique competitive edge over StamDen or StamCro? When comparing StamDK and MagDK I think right now MagDK outperforms StamDK offensively only in 1v1 on account of Whip, but, MagDK is slightly more relevant in large groups, even if only because Mag can more sustainably provide Talons and Chains, and maybe Molten Armaments. I don't think it's controversial to say StamCro is a superior duelist to StamDK and both StamDen and StamCro are superior conveyers of Bombard and Whirling Blades in large groups. With MagDK gaining penetration from Corrosive, there's not much that makes StamDK an interesting choice over MagDK, StamDen, StamCro, or even StamSorc, really, whereas MagDK retains some unique edge over MagCro, MagSorc, and MagDen, even if that edge is very limited and situational.
No one has competitive edge over stam warden and necro, they are the best specs in the game.
I get what you say but as i said stam dk is already in a good spot, giving him delayed burst would make the class as good as stam warden/necro or even better.
Those 2 specs have been meta since forever we don't need yet another op stam class.
The only skill i could see given to stam dk justifiably is a poison morph for talons.
Just my opinion. 🤷♂️🤷♂️
I don't know that it would make us better than StamCro/Den but point taken that MagDK isn't as good as them either.
Poison Talons might satisfy the issue that we don't have a role in an optimized large group, as I was implying that Stam Inhale could.
To express my point in other words, when you say DoTs can be purged and accordingly DK needs more Direct Damage - and that MagDK especially needs the additional DD because StamDK has access to stronger Weapon skills than MagDK - consider that StamDK faces opponents with those same weapon skills - and purges - and unique DD skills that Flames of Oblivion and Stone Giant - StamDK's only class Direct Damage - can't match. With MagDK getting Corrosive, the one and only thing StamDK offers over any other class is that Take Flight is a bit stronger than Ferocious Leap.
And sure, how the class kit interacts with Weapon Skills. In other words, the additional 2m range on Executioner. This is now StamDK's main unique feature. Not that I think MagDK should lose Corrosive - I think StamDK should get access to Inhale.
I don't think that corrosive will be used by magdks tho, they already don't have access to any kind of burst, at least for me i would never give up ferocious leap except if it was changed to they way it was before when it penetrated everything including dots.
I guess we'll see whether Corrosive + Proxy + Inhale (in its present state) is worthwhile over Ferocious Leap - or Soul Tether.
For bombing it might i don't really have experience on bomber builds, but for a "normal" magdk build i doubt it will replace leap. (Smallscale/bgs)
I guess one distinct burst advantage StamDK will retain over MagDK is that Titanic Cleave jives with Corrosive much better than the BRP Destro, and Cleave is getting a nice buff. I think Titanic Cleaving is one Direct Damage playstyle where DK is fairly competitive with Necro and Warden, but it's always been off-meta outside of HP Regen fueled 1vX, in my opinion. With the deletion of HP Regen the advantage of Necrotic Potency / Deaden Pain became even stronger.
I'd personally prefer StamTalons or StamInhale over StamWhip. Stone Giant obviously has some capacity to be this skill, if it stunned on the first cast, etc., but that skill has always been about throwing a singular rock. Frankly on either class I think the most pressing issue with our AoE is improving the hitbox for Engulfing and Noxious.
Edited by Urzigurumash on August 18, 2021 6:27PMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast1 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Warden and necro have assess to the same strong weapons skills that a StamDK does. Don’t believe that should exclude DK from getting the same damage vs. skill cost as other classes get. It’s one reason I am just asking for fairness and make one of the morphs a stamina version.
Plus this would help the PVE side and not just the PVP side of the game for fairness of standards to be applied.
Stay safe everyone and ZOS please fix the green tree micromanaging
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Miloscpolski✭✭✭Dragonknight
Deep Breath
Total damage 3119 Damage vs. cost output 3119/4050 = 0.77 damage for every 1 point of magic spent
Necromancer
Blighted Blastbones
Damage vs. cost output 4737/2295 = 2.064 damage for every 1 point of stamina spent
Warden
Subterranean Assault
Damage vs. cost output 4264/2066 = 2.063 damage for every 1 point of stamina spent, don't forget if fires a second time free. 4264x2/2066 = 4.125 damage for every 1 point of stamina spent
First the cost is over the top to damage ratio when compared to the other 2 classes. Makes one wonder if when skills where standardized that DK's inhale was overlooked somehow.
See, your first mistake was in comparing DK to actually viable classes. Every single one of our abilities is just an inferior version of that from another class. Betty Netch is completely free, grants sustain, purges, and Major Sorcery/Brutality for the entire duration. DK doesn't even have a purge or sustain skill, and Igneous weapons costs 4320 Magicka but only grants Major Sorcery/Brutality. Actually, it still doesn't even grant Major Sorcery, it's been bugged for a while and is hopefully being fixed next patch, but I'm not too optimistic. Compare Wings to Crystallized Slab/Shimmering Shield, it's no contest. Or GDB to Arctic Blast. GDB doesn't even scale off max health, whereas Arctic Blast does, heals for more, also heals over time, stuns, and damages. And it's cheaper. Despite being "the DOT class", we only deal increased damage with like three skills, for which we sacrifice passives, whereas Necro deals 15% more DOT damage with all skills, takes 15% less DOT damage, and can purge them too, which DK can't. We're the only melee-only class, but receive no compensation and in fact do far less damage than ranged classes. I could go on, but there's really no point; whatever DK can do, other classes can do better.
zos absolutely hate MAGDK4 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭ResidentContrarian wrote: »Why are people trying to overbuff this skill?
It's not weak and already does good damage, esp. considering a heal and interrupt are both connected to it.
Next patch, even better stat-stacking will be possible and I can see that explosion increasing past 12k damage on even a build with decent sustain.
Already on live, inhale -> leap -> flame pulsar is plenty strong esp. in a 1vX scenario or on breach...well maybe I am just a Contrarian.
I think because the magDK kit overall has high ability costs, inhale being so expensive just makes it hard to use. I also think that having a heal and interrupt component to the skill is unnecessary. I would rather they remove one of those and reduce the cost.
The heal only inturept are situitional just like the skill itself. You can only actuvate the skill if you hit a target, you heal for number of targets hit by first attack only, you only inturept targets casting channels on first attack only. So you can fight 5 people and only heal from 1 or 5 and you can inturept also 1 or 5 depending on their position or what qre they doing. Nightblade extraction is somewhat similar in function but works much better. Heals require no target, still heals more per target, can activate without target, can be used as spammable, have lower cost. Inhale and its morph need an overhaul, but hey, cleave is was apperanlty a good skill(terrible in zos eyes), but zos decided to maoe the strongest dot in the game, that is more important.0 -
Jameson18✭✭✭✭✭Please do NOT get my aoe interrupt taken away.
I absolutely love the skill and its morphs. I wouldn't mind it being a tad cheaper, but as I said before, that is a problem with most* mag DK skills being pricey.0 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭In your DK rework ZOS you forgot to look at cost of DK inhale skill. The Cost vs. damage output is still out of balance with other standards.
Dragonknight
Deep Breath - Cost: 4050 Magicka - Total damage 3119 Damage vs. cost output 3119/4050 = 0.77 damage for every 1 point of magic spent.
Draw Essence - Cost: 4050 Magicka - Total damage 2624 Cost vs. damage output 2624/4050 = 0.647damage for every 1 point of magic spent.
Necromancer
Blighted Blastbones - Cost: 2295 Stamina - Damage vs. cost output 4737/2295 = 2.064 damage for every 1 point of stamina spent.
Stalking Blastbones - Cost: 2700 Magicka - Damage vs. cost output 3600/2700 = 1.333 damage for every 1 point of magic spent.
Warden
Subterranean Assault - Cost: 2066 Stamina - Damage vs. cost output 4264/2066 = 2.063 damage for every 1 point of stamina spent, don't forget if fires a second time free. 4264x2/2066 = 4.125 damage for every 1 point of stamina spent.
Deep Fissure - Cost: 2430 Magicka - Damage vs. cost output 3240/2430 = 1.333 damage for every 1 point of magic spent.
What I would like to see is the cost reduced to meet the standards of the other 2 delayed skills and one to become stamina based.
Stay safe everyone and ZOS please fix the green tree micromanaging
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