Proc sets damage and spell power

AhSeLYaG

Hi i am a ps4 player so cant test it. İ use caluurion on my magblade. Patch notes say i have to get 5,5 k spell power !! To reach live numbers which is not possible i guess. My question How will these type of sets combine with sets like war maiden or spell strategist calculate the spell power? As these sets spell power is not reflect on character stats.. will these sets conditional spell power effect caluurion or not ? Help is highly appreciated😁

AhSeLYaG

İf / when pts is up please can u test this?

AhSeLYaG

Hi and morning. Does the spell strategist sets 5 th bonus effect caluurions initial damage?

Waffennacht

I cant test either but Nirnhoned Greatsword + 3 infused spell dmg jewelry + dmg race + major sorcery comes out to about 5.5k spell damage

the1andonlyskwex

Waffennacht wrote: »

I cant test either but Nirnhoned Greatsword + 3 infused spell dmg jewelry + dmg race + major sorcery comes out to about 5.5k spell damage

That's an awfully specific combination of stuff just to get proc damage back to what it is now. So much for build diversity.

Anyron

basic stamina sestup can reach old dmg easily, even overbuff it to insane dmg while magicka have hard time to keep old numbers
Im not even talking about magsorcs who needs high max mag for shields, meaning most dmg proc sets arent viable

AhSeLYaG

Any clarification is appreciated

Jackey

This was one of my worries when reading the patch notes.
If this goes live like it is now, proc sets that scale with spell damage will only be viable for certain specific builds.
Which is okay in pvp but should not be a thing in pve IMO.

gariondavey

Yeah medium armor passives make wd higher or stam characters. Should be 5.5k for stam and 5k for mag

MrZeDark

In optimized groups, I'm seeing classes break 5.5k w/s dmg - Unless you only chase raw dmg attribute you really won't hit and break the 5.5k unless you're in a group working to provide buffs to your dmg.

So realistically, solo stuff your proc sets will be less effective then in an optimized group - both in PvE and PvP.

Icy_Nelyan

I've personally tested War Maiden set with some Monster Sets since I'm using it on live and wanted to know if I have to rebuild my character for the expansion:

1) Nerien`eth: War Maiden buffs the proc damage

2) Zaan: War Maiden doesn't buff the proc damage at all

War Maiden increase spell damage provided to magic damage abilities, Nerien'eth proc damage is magic while Zaan is not, so is legit to think, for example, that Silk of the Sun will buff Zaan, Grothdar, Ilambris, Valkyn Skoria and so on.

Septimus_Magna

gariondavey wrote: »

Yeah medium armor passives make wd higher or stam characters. Should be 5.5k for stam and 5k for mag

Exactly, the extra 14% WD really helps to increase proc set dmg.
I must say that monster sets are often better on mag builds so it might be intended to balance it out.

I havent gone on the PTS yet but I am curious to see how Bloodthirsty on jewelry affects proc dmg. Bloodthirsty increases your WD/SD against targets based on missing health, does that mean proc dmg also scales up when the target is missing health?

Edit: typo

katorga

Icy_Nelyan wrote: »

I've personally tested War Maiden set with some Monster Sets since I'm using it on live and wanted to know if I have to rebuild my character for the expansion:

1) Nerien`eth: War Maiden buffs the proc damage

2) Zaan: War Maiden doesn't buff the proc damage at all

War Maiden increase spell damage provided to magic damage abilities, Nerien'eth proc damage is magic while Zaan is not, so is legit to think, for example, that Silk of the Sun will buff Zaan, Grothdar, Ilambris, Valkyn Skoria and so on.

Nice test, I was wondering how damage stats that do not appear on your character sheet would work.

AhSeLYaG

Can you please check spell strategist caluurions combo ? Ty

Goregrinder

This looks promising, since players will have to make considerations when picking sets and compromise on what they want their build to perform well at, close to what was intended when the game launched. Players will be able to choose any combo they want, and decide what is best for them. I'm looking forward to this update!

Rebiludo

You must have 5,478 Weapon or Spell Damage to reach the original value of many sets.

Is a cap ? If, for exemple, we have 11 000 spell damage, the set will be double of the original value ?

Can you test molag + master staff + caluurion to xD

ManDraKE

gariondavey wrote: »

Yeah medium armor passives make wd higher or stam characters. Should be 5.5k for stam and 5k for mag

i love how magicka players negate the existence of the spell penetration passive on light armor. Spell pen also buff the damage of proc sets and medium armor passives don't grant penetration, so if you are going to compare them, compare damage output.

fred4

ManDraKE wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Yeah medium armor passives make wd higher or stam characters. Should be 5.5k for stam and 5k for mag

i love how magicka players negate the existence of the spell penetration passive on light armor. Spell pen also buff the damage of proc sets and medium armor passives don't grant penetration, so if you are going to compare them, compare damage output.

Most magicka builds are not suited to running mauls. This is how medium builds claw most of the supposed light armor penetration advantage right back. While destro staves buff certain types of damage, 2H weapons also have higher base stats. Now add Pierce Armor and the medium build has more penetration than the run of the mill, ranged light armor one. Can you run a 2H Maul and Pierce Armor on a magicka build? Technically, yes, but are you telling me you'll run a magicka build where you can't restore your primary resource via heavy attacks? If you don't give yourself that option, you will end up building for ample magicka sustain and gimp your damage that way.

gariondavey

ManDraKE wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Yeah medium armor passives make wd higher or stam characters. Should be 5.5k for stam and 5k for mag

i love how magicka players negate the existence of the spell penetration passive on light armor. Spell pen also buff the damage of proc sets and medium armor passives don't grant penetration, so if you are going to compare them, compare damage output.

All depends on their formula for proc damage calculations

jaws343

ManDraKE wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Yeah medium armor passives make wd higher or stam characters. Should be 5.5k for stam and 5k for mag

i love how magicka players negate the existence of the spell penetration passive on light armor. Spell pen also buff the damage of proc sets and medium armor passives don't grant penetration, so if you are going to compare them, compare damage output.

Medium armor also has no negative penalties. Where Light armor makes users take more physical damage. The tradeoffs seem fair. Med armor gains more weapon damage and has no negative effects. Light armor has more Pen but takes much more physical damage.

the1andonlyskwex

ManDraKE wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Yeah medium armor passives make wd higher or stam characters. Should be 5.5k for stam and 5k for mag

i love how magicka players negate the existence of the spell penetration passive on light armor. Spell pen also buff the damage of proc sets and medium armor passives don't grant penetration, so if you are going to compare them, compare damage output.

I thought this thread was about the proc set scaling changes. The fact that mag has higher penetration has nothing to do with the fact that the proc set changes hurt mag procs a lot more than they hurt stam procs.

GreenHere

will these sets conditional spell power effect caluurion or not ?

Can you please check spell strategist caluurions combo ? Ty

Since you asked nicely, I dug into this a little bit. I'm no expert, but I hope this helps...

Short answer is apparently "yep!" for Spell Strategist + Caluurion.

War Maiden specifically only affects Magic Damage damage -- as in, capital M capital D. None of Caluurion's procs are Magic Damage, as shown in screenshots below. Unless I made a serious error somewhere, I'm 98% certain WM has no affect on Cal's procs, as ALL WM+Cal hits were 6620 (including the Disease one, which is decidedly a Martial attack in the new lingo ESO is using). Pretty sure War Maiden is a poor paring with Cal, unless your build incorporates lots of other skills relying heavily on Magic Damage.

I would think Spell Strategist's perk should affect the elemental damage procs of Caluurion's set, but not the Disease one. But apparently I'd be wrong about that, because ALL of Cal's procs after applying SS to the dummy resulted in 8124 damage -- even the Disease one. NOTE: Spell Strategist + Caluurion procs were the same damage whether Cal fired on the first out-of-combat light attack, or after the second light attack (after SS was well and truly procced on target), so Spell Strat seems to apply even on opening attacks, like it should.


New, naked, PTS Template character (meaning they have all passives unlocked, but I didn't equip/slot/unlock anything in particular) wearing only Caluurion jewelry and a fire stick:



Same as above, plus War Maiden undies:



Caluurion + Spell Strat (unprocced, because I didn't think it'd affect tooltip; this just shows the base stat with those 2 lines of Spell Damage SS has):



Nakie, 1 shot 1 Cali proc:



Cal + WarM (War Maiden's 5th piece bonus had no effect on Cal's damage; I got the same exact numbers with 4 WM + 1 SS. The damage increase over the naked shot above is just from the one line of 129 Spell Damage that WM, and the applicable Light Armor passive that give Penetration):



Cal + Strat (note that I ONLY fired off a single light attack to proc Caluurion here, so it seems Spell Strategist does indeed apply to the proc like it should despite it all happening in an instant when first initiating combat):



If I were a little smarter, I would have remembered to embiggen the CMX report for easier reading. And I should have switched the glyph to cut down on the clutter. My bad!

Also, I thought I uploaded the SS+Cal screen where it was a Disease proc in addition to the fire one above, but now I don't see it and am out of time. You can trust me though, the Disease proc was the same exact damage as the others. This won't be true after normal CP allocations and whatnot obviously, but at base SS seems to boost all 4 of Caluurion's procs uniformly.

GreenHere

Rebiludo wrote: »

You must have 5,478 Weapon or Spell Damage to reach the original value of many sets.

Is a cap ? If, for exemple, we have 11 000 spell damage, the set will be double of the original value ?

Can you test molag + master staff + caluurion to xD

Interesting idea @Rebiludo , I may just try that out later! Will update here if I do. I got some goofing around I want to do with silly-high Spell Damage on this character eventually anyway.

ManDraKE

jaws343 wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Yeah medium armor passives make wd higher or stam characters. Should be 5.5k for stam and 5k for mag

i love how magicka players negate the existence of the spell penetration passive on light armor. Spell pen also buff the damage of proc sets and medium armor passives don't grant penetration, so if you are going to compare them, compare damage output.

Medium armor also has no negative penalties. Where Light armor makes users take more physical damage. The tradeoffs seem fair. Med armor gains more weapon damage and has no negative effects. Light armor has more Pen but takes much more physical damage.

the discussion is about the damage output of procsets in medium vs light. Is not a discussion of medium vs light armor in general (and the argument of no negative effects is very dumb tbh...). People is complaining that proc sets scale with wpn/spell damage and because is more easy to stack wpn damage magicka builds are being hurt, which is not truth unless you actually show that procs hit harder on stam than magika with the current scaling, and nobody has done that atm (as usual people cry withouth actually going to the PTS and testing stuff)

Also people is conviently ignoring that most of the good burst procsets do magika damage , so when you count the damage increase of the CP and racial passives (anything that increase X% of damage done with magic/flame/etc attacks). Stamina procsets are mostly all DoTs, give me a stamina base calurions legacy and i will show you the point with a 1 shot build lol

p.s: magika doesnt have mauls, but it has penetration as passive on the destruction staff line.

Rebiludo

GreenHere wrote: »

Rebiludo wrote: »

You must have 5,478 Weapon or Spell Damage to reach the original value of many sets.

Is a cap ? If, for exemple, we have 11 000 spell damage, the set will be double of the original value ?

Can you test molag + master staff + caluurion to xD

Interesting idea @Rebiludo , I may just try that out later! Will update here if I do. I got some goofing around I want to do with silly-high Spell Damage on this character eventually anyway.

Tested.
Caluurion + Nedhiver (inferno staff nirn front) + Kena + Master perfect (infused back), no mundus ... Caluurion = 22k at 7K SD (19k at 5k SD) ^^

YandereGirlfriend

fred4 wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Yeah medium armor passives make wd higher or stam characters. Should be 5.5k for stam and 5k for mag

i love how magicka players negate the existence of the spell penetration passive on light armor. Spell pen also buff the damage of proc sets and medium armor passives don't grant penetration, so if you are going to compare them, compare damage output.

Most magicka builds are not suited to running mauls. This is how medium builds claw most of the supposed light armor penetration advantage right back. While destro staves buff certain types of damage, 2H weapons also have higher base stats. Now add Pierce Armor and the medium build has more penetration than the run of the mill, ranged light armor one. Can you run a 2H Maul and Pierce Armor on a magicka build? Technically, yes, but are you telling me you'll run a magicka build where you can't restore your primary resource via heavy attacks? If you don't give yourself that option, you will end up building for ample magicka sustain and gimp your damage that way.

Elemental Drain exists and is an easy slot on any Magicka character, so that takes care of Major Breach for literally every class. Minor Breach is more difficult to source but not all Stamina builds are running Sword and Board either.

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Yeah medium armor passives make wd higher or stam characters. Should be 5.5k for stam and 5k for mag

i love how magicka players negate the existence of the spell penetration passive on light armor. Spell pen also buff the damage of proc sets and medium armor passives don't grant penetration, so if you are going to compare them, compare damage output.

I thought this thread was about the proc set scaling changes. The fact that mag has higher penetration has nothing to do with the fact that the proc set changes hurt mag procs a lot more than they hurt stam procs.

You can't separate the two. Magicka characters get an extra ~8% damage through their extra Penetration which is actually somewhat well balanced against the 14% additional Weapon Damage that Stamina receives.

Yes, the Stamina tooltip will be larger but the tooltip isn't what's doing damage - the entire damage calculation is and that involves Penetration.

the1andonlyskwex

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Yeah medium armor passives make wd higher or stam characters. Should be 5.5k for stam and 5k for mag

i love how magicka players negate the existence of the spell penetration passive on light armor. Spell pen also buff the damage of proc sets and medium armor passives don't grant penetration, so if you are going to compare them, compare damage output.

Most magicka builds are not suited to running mauls. This is how medium builds claw most of the supposed light armor penetration advantage right back. While destro staves buff certain types of damage, 2H weapons also have higher base stats. Now add Pierce Armor and the medium build has more penetration than the run of the mill, ranged light armor one. Can you run a 2H Maul and Pierce Armor on a magicka build? Technically, yes, but are you telling me you'll run a magicka build where you can't restore your primary resource via heavy attacks? If you don't give yourself that option, you will end up building for ample magicka sustain and gimp your damage that way.

Elemental Drain exists and is an easy slot on any Magicka character, so that takes care of Major Breach for literally every class. Minor Breach is more difficult to source but not all Stamina builds are running Sword and Board either.

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Yeah medium armor passives make wd higher or stam characters. Should be 5.5k for stam and 5k for mag

i love how magicka players negate the existence of the spell penetration passive on light armor. Spell pen also buff the damage of proc sets and medium armor passives don't grant penetration, so if you are going to compare them, compare damage output.

I thought this thread was about the proc set scaling changes. The fact that mag has higher penetration has nothing to do with the fact that the proc set changes hurt mag procs a lot more than they hurt stam procs.

You can't separate the two. Magicka characters get an extra ~8% damage through their extra Penetration which is actually somewhat well balanced against the 14% additional Weapon Damage that Stamina receives.

Yes, the Stamina tooltip will be larger but the tooltip isn't what's doing damage - the entire damage calculation is and that involves Penetration.

Sure, but penetration isn't changing in u30, so I don't see how it's relevant to this thread.

AhSeLYaG

TEENK YOU very much for all your efforts and clearing this out. Regards!

YandereGirlfriend

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Yeah medium armor passives make wd higher or stam characters. Should be 5.5k for stam and 5k for mag

i love how magicka players negate the existence of the spell penetration passive on light armor. Spell pen also buff the damage of proc sets and medium armor passives don't grant penetration, so if you are going to compare them, compare damage output.

Most magicka builds are not suited to running mauls. This is how medium builds claw most of the supposed light armor penetration advantage right back. While destro staves buff certain types of damage, 2H weapons also have higher base stats. Now add Pierce Armor and the medium build has more penetration than the run of the mill, ranged light armor one. Can you run a 2H Maul and Pierce Armor on a magicka build? Technically, yes, but are you telling me you'll run a magicka build where you can't restore your primary resource via heavy attacks? If you don't give yourself that option, you will end up building for ample magicka sustain and gimp your damage that way.

Elemental Drain exists and is an easy slot on any Magicka character, so that takes care of Major Breach for literally every class. Minor Breach is more difficult to source but not all Stamina builds are running Sword and Board either.

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Yeah medium armor passives make wd higher or stam characters. Should be 5.5k for stam and 5k for mag

i love how magicka players negate the existence of the spell penetration passive on light armor. Spell pen also buff the damage of proc sets and medium armor passives don't grant penetration, so if you are going to compare them, compare damage output.

I thought this thread was about the proc set scaling changes. The fact that mag has higher penetration has nothing to do with the fact that the proc set changes hurt mag procs a lot more than they hurt stam procs.

You can't separate the two. Magicka characters get an extra ~8% damage through their extra Penetration which is actually somewhat well balanced against the 14% additional Weapon Damage that Stamina receives.

Yes, the Stamina tooltip will be larger but the tooltip isn't what's doing damage - the entire damage calculation is and that involves Penetration.

Sure, but penetration isn't changing in u30, so I don't see how it's relevant to this thread.

It's relevant because it impacts the set's overall damage. The tooltip doesn't mean anything in a vacuum.

the1andonlyskwex

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Yeah medium armor passives make wd higher or stam characters. Should be 5.5k for stam and 5k for mag

i love how magicka players negate the existence of the spell penetration passive on light armor. Spell pen also buff the damage of proc sets and medium armor passives don't grant penetration, so if you are going to compare them, compare damage output.

Most magicka builds are not suited to running mauls. This is how medium builds claw most of the supposed light armor penetration advantage right back. While destro staves buff certain types of damage, 2H weapons also have higher base stats. Now add Pierce Armor and the medium build has more penetration than the run of the mill, ranged light armor one. Can you run a 2H Maul and Pierce Armor on a magicka build? Technically, yes, but are you telling me you'll run a magicka build where you can't restore your primary resource via heavy attacks? If you don't give yourself that option, you will end up building for ample magicka sustain and gimp your damage that way.

Elemental Drain exists and is an easy slot on any Magicka character, so that takes care of Major Breach for literally every class. Minor Breach is more difficult to source but not all Stamina builds are running Sword and Board either.

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Yeah medium armor passives make wd higher or stam characters. Should be 5.5k for stam and 5k for mag

i love how magicka players negate the existence of the spell penetration passive on light armor. Spell pen also buff the damage of proc sets and medium armor passives don't grant penetration, so if you are going to compare them, compare damage output.

I thought this thread was about the proc set scaling changes. The fact that mag has higher penetration has nothing to do with the fact that the proc set changes hurt mag procs a lot more than they hurt stam procs.

You can't separate the two. Magicka characters get an extra ~8% damage through their extra Penetration which is actually somewhat well balanced against the 14% additional Weapon Damage that Stamina receives.

Yes, the Stamina tooltip will be larger but the tooltip isn't what's doing damage - the entire damage calculation is and that involves Penetration.

Sure, but penetration isn't changing in u30, so I don't see how it's relevant to this thread.

It's relevant because it impacts the set's overall damage. The tooltip doesn't mean anything in a vacuum.

Sure, but that's got nothing to do with this thread.

Because of the differences in availability between SD and WD, u30 is nerfing mag procs more than it is nerfing stam procs (or buffing mag procs less than it is buffing stam procs, if you have particularly high SD or WD).

Penetration hasn't changed, so it has nothing to do with the changes to proc damage.

ManDraKE

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Sure, but that's got nothing to do with this thread.

Because of the differences in availability between SD and WD, u30 is nerfing mag procs more than it is nerfing stam procs (or buffing mag procs less than it is buffing stam procs, if you have particularly high SD or WD).

Penetration hasn't changed, so it has nothing to do with the changes to proc damage.

yes it has to do because complains about stamina hitting harder with procs cant be made in a vacumm, magika procs hit why harder than stamina procs on live (both because of penetration and because procsets are mostly magika-base damage). In any case, spell damage being lower is more "balanced" (if you can call procs balanced lol).

Damage output is the only thing that matters, is irrelevant if the tooltip looks higher on stam because of higher wpn damage.