Proc set nerfs in PvE

FrancisCrawford

You must have 5,478 Weapon or Spell Damage to reach the original value of many sets.

My standard overland/easy dungeon XP farming build features:

• Grothdarr
• Mad Tinkerer
• Overwhelming Surge

The first character I checked has 3503 Spell Power with Critical Surge active. Other characters might have 2955, as I typically don't chug expensive potions.

Admittedly, I could increase those figures with Spell Power enchantments and a change in Mundus stone -- but as it stands that's quite a nerf. And the CP change is of course another nerf.

In more challenging content I typically use a monster set (Maw of the Infernal or some other proc set) and a Maelstrom staff, so those builds have been nerfed too.

YandereGirlfriend

Someone's build is always nerfed whenever changes are made. That is to be expected since balance changes are zero-sum.

I view the scaling updates as extremely positive but I do always feel for those who have to change their builds.

SidraWillowsky

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Someone's build is always nerfed whenever changes are made. That is to be expected since balance changes are zero-sum.

I view the scaling updates as extremely positive but I do always feel for those who have to change their builds.

I tend to agree, but did the patch notes mention a cap for the damage that sets like Relequen do? If not, they're gettin massive buffs, whereas mag sets that are based on spell damage are going to take a heavy nerf unless one builds for spell damage, which means giving up crit, which probably still results in decreased damage even with high spell dmg.

I dunno. I hope the PTS comes back up soon so we can test this.

Brederode

It also seems like hybrid (tank) builds might be dead for PvE? Many light/medium sets that were also useful on tanks for example to speed up the already slow process of doing overland content/quests will most likely be really bad once update 30 releases.

The effect we expect from this will be an overall buff in PVE territory as many players build for maximum efficiency regarding their stats.

I guess ZOS only really thought about those who put 64 points in one attribute for dungeons and trials content when making this change and didn’t really care about those who want to do hybrid builds or do quests on their tank at a “decent pace” like me lol

Dagoth_Rac

This will likely be the end of damage monster sets in PvE. Everyone will just run two 1-piece bonuses. The extra line of stats will boost all your ability damage, and who cares about losing what will now likely be negligible damage from the unique bonus of the monster set? Even if your tooltip increases do not match the monster set, your abilities can crit, unlike monster sets. Two 1-piece bonuses were already preferred by many endgame players, so if it was borderline before, nerfing the damage procs seems guaranteed to move players to two 1-piece bonuses.

honey_badger82

well looks like I will no longer be using Winters Respite. They completely murdered that set, lowered the heal AND halfed the frequency!

Benoftheflies

to be fair, winter's respite is very unneeded for the majority of content in pve. it is so easy to over heal and it is mainly good for things like vcrhm cause they heal is nice. most normal trials is really easy to solo heal as a casual player and vet trials isn't too hard with a moderate amount of efficiency

Integral1900

Sadly, by setting the number that high they have effectively killed most hybrid builds other than those using pelinals, looks like it’s back to the yawn -fest of the meta boys and girls.......

😴😴😴😴😴

Rex-Umbra

That is a lot of Weapon or Spell damage damnnnn need to go all to hit those numbers then your regen, and states will suck.

FrancisCrawford

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

This will likely be the end of damage monster sets in PvE. Everyone will just run two 1-piece bonuses. The extra line of stats will boost all your ability damage, and who cares about losing what will now likely be negligible damage from the unique bonus of the monster set? Even if your tooltip increases do not match the monster set, your abilities can crit, unlike monster sets. Two 1-piece bonuses were already preferred by many endgame players, so if it was borderline before, nerfing the damage procs seems guaranteed to move players to two 1-piece bonuses.

Yes, but it lowers the floor for those of us who don't have great reflexes or trial gear.

I could literally lose 5-10% of my damage in many boss fights from giving up the current Maw of the Infernal bonus. Elite players are losing vastly lower fractions.

vgabor

In proper trial group setup this will be actually buff as there the actual weapon/spell damage with all the group buffs are usually in the range of 6-8k... It's too early to tell but I wouldn't be surprised if some new dd builds emerge utilising previously ignored proc sets...

Faulgor

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Someone's build is always nerfed whenever changes are made. That is to be expected since balance changes are zero-sum.

I view the scaling updates as extremely positive but I do always feel for those who have to change their builds.

Proc sets were already really bad in PvE, mainly because they can't crit. This change is a further nerf when the combat change preview alleged that the update would result in a slight boost for proc sets in PvE:
"The effect we expect from this will be an overall buff in PVE territory as many players build for maximum efficiency regarding their stats."

Brederode

Benoftheflies wrote: »

to be fair, winter's respite is very unneeded for the majority of content in pve. it is so easy to over heal and it is mainly good for things like vcrhm cause they heal is nice. most normal trials is really easy to solo heal as a casual player and vet trials isn't too hard with a moderate amount of efficiency

Its was still a fun and okay/good set to use on a tank, especially when doing (veteran) dungeons with randoms. Same goes for Hitis Hearth.

I especially liked using Winters Respite on my Warden tank because the frost effect really fit the theme. Now it’s play how you want except not really..

Grimlok_S

Faulgor wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Someone's build is always nerfed whenever changes are made. That is to be expected since balance changes are zero-sum.

I view the scaling updates as extremely positive but I do always feel for those who have to change their builds.

Proc sets were already really bad in PvE, mainly because they can't crit. This change is a further nerf when the combat change preview alleged that the update would result in a slight boost for proc sets in PvE:
"The effect we expect from this will be an overall buff in PVE territory as many players build for maximum efficiency regarding their stats."

Yep, that's why no one uses Relequen.

colossalvoids

Pretty funny when they're talking about the floors and cellings, than immediately make some changes that are buffs for the celling and a nerfs for the floor lmao. Sure it's about pvp but can we finally start balancing via battle spirit for a change.

Masel

Grimlok_S wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Someone's build is always nerfed whenever changes are made. That is to be expected since balance changes are zero-sum.

I view the scaling updates as extremely positive but I do always feel for those who have to change their builds.

Proc sets were already really bad in PvE, mainly because they can't crit. This change is a further nerf when the combat change preview alleged that the update would result in a slight boost for proc sets in PvE:
"The effect we expect from this will be an overall buff in PVE territory as many players build for maximum efficiency regarding their stats."

Yep, that's why no one uses Relequen.

Wait... you can very much use relequen on most bossfights. Is this sarcasm?

zaria

Now if they let proc crit again this might have worked.

Starlock

I'll reserve judgement for the moment, but at present this looks like a MASSIVE kick in the teeth to anyone who isn't a freaking power gaming min-maxer (aka, what is pejoratively referred to as "the floor"). Meanwhile, the power gamers are going to be fine. People like me can't adapt to this. Except, perhaps, by uninstalling the game, I suppose.

I've never gotten livid angry reading patch notes before. These changes actually make me angry.

penguin_zombies

"The effect we expect from this will be an overall buff in PVE territory as many players build for maximum efficiency regarding their stats."

" You must have 38,350 Max Magicka or Stamina to reach the original value of many sets."

Do normal PvE players have that high magicka/stamina? Cause this seems like it was toted as a buff to PvE builds, but you'd need to start hitting almost 40k stam/mag for it to at all be a buff.

Starlock

penguin_zombies wrote: »

"The effect we expect from this will be an overall buff in PVE territory as many players build for maximum efficiency regarding their stats."

" You must have 38,350 Max Magicka or Stamina to reach the original value of many sets."

Do normal PvE players have that high magicka/stamina?

No, we don't. The spell/weapon damage threshold is equally out of touch.

That's why I'm really angry about these changes. It's absolutely a nerf that kicks those who don't chase numbers far, far harder than those who do. The number chasers will keep number chasing. The rest of us who have other priorities are just going to suck it. Badly.

Sangwyne

colossalvoids wrote: »

Pretty funny when they're talking about the floors and cellings, than immediately make some changes that are buffs for the celling and a nerfs for the floor lmao. Sure it's about pvp but can we finally start balancing via battle spirit for a change.

Yeah, and they talked a big talk about "reducing top-end DPS" and "adding support options" for CP stars this change too but then the only useful additions were Weapons Expert and Master-At-Arms, which looks like the new BIS DPS slotted star as it basically combines Deadly Aim and Biting Aura into one star and probably stacks with them too. And then they reduced everyone's stats.

Tannus15

penguin_zombies wrote: »

"The effect we expect from this will be an overall buff in PVE territory as many players build for maximum efficiency regarding their stats."

" You must have 38,350 Max Magicka or Stamina to reach the original value of many sets."

Do normal PvE players have that high magicka/stamina? Cause this seems like it was toted as a buff to PvE builds, but you'd need to start hitting almost 40k stam/mag for it to at all be a buff.

Yes.

My mag sorc spell damage with BSW is avg 6.3k max 6.6k with 40k max mag (21m buffed)
PvE trial groups will be buffed as long as they are running both major and minor courage and any sort of decent warhorn uptime.

Healers still run arcane traits so they tend to be higher max mag and lower spell damage than DD.

The only people being nerfed are tanks that run damage proc sets.

Grimlok_S

Masel wrote: »

Grimlok_S wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Someone's build is always nerfed whenever changes are made. That is to be expected since balance changes are zero-sum.

I view the scaling updates as extremely positive but I do always feel for those who have to change their builds.

Proc sets were already really bad in PvE, mainly because they can't crit. This change is a further nerf when the combat change preview alleged that the update would result in a slight boost for proc sets in PvE:
"The effect we expect from this will be an overall buff in PVE territory as many players build for maximum efficiency regarding their stats."

Yep, that's why no one uses Relequen.

Wait... you can very much use relequen on most bossfights. Is this sarcasm?

Yes.

Groupfinder buff, Major/Minor Courage, Minor Brutality if available can push me past 8k WD on a 3 Bloodthirsty build with a sub-optimal race..

The outrage in this thread is a little short sighted.

James-Wayne

All of my Solo PvE builds with these changes got nerfed by a large margin... the amounts you need to reach original levels is WAY to high!

No more Solo play

Grimlok_S

penguin_zombies wrote: »

"The effect we expect from this will be an overall buff in PVE territory as many players build for maximum efficiency regarding their stats."

" You must have 38,350 Max Magicka or Stamina to reach the original value of many sets."

Do normal PvE players have that high magicka/stamina? Cause this seems like it was toted as a buff to PvE builds, but you'd need to start hitting almost 40k stam/mag for it to at all be a buff.

Healing procs are max stat pool (Total Mag/Total Stam). Damage procs scale off of Max WD/SpellD. ~5.5K is the number to hit to see tooltips match Live.

With group buffs that is easily achievable.

penguin_zombies

Grimlok_S wrote: »

With group buffs that is easily achievable.

It just feels like this guts any of my solo builds, but I'll have to see when it goes live I guess.

James-Wayne

penguin_zombies wrote: »

Grimlok_S wrote: »

With group buffs that is easily achievable.

It just feels like this guts any of my solo builds, but I'll have to see when it goes live I guess.

I agree they are not Proc Sets now they are Group Sets.

Integral1900

They keep prattling on about this lower the top and raise the floor, but given that it’s the elite meta chasers that have the big weapon damage numbers anyway this has done exactly the opposite! If you use anything except a meta build your damage just took a huge kick in the crotch! Are they trying to make this game boring and one-dimensional!?

Oh wait, it’s for the three people who still play PVP isn’t it 😠

Merforum

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

You must have 5,478 Weapon or Spell Damage to reach the original value of many sets.

My standard overland/easy dungeon XP farming build features:

• Grothdarr
• Mad Tinkerer
• Overwhelming Surge

The first character I checked has 3503 Spell Power with Critical Surge active. Other characters might have 2955, as I typically don't chug expensive potions.

Admittedly, I could increase those figures with Spell Power enchantments and a change in Mundus stone -- but as it stands that's quite a nerf. And the CP change is of course another nerf.

In more challenging content I typically use a monster set (Maw of the Infernal or some other proc set) and a Maelstrom staff, so those builds have been nerfed too.

YUP PVP folks once again caused a massive nerf to most in PVE, except those who were already stat stacking to the max, who actually get buffed by these changes. All the cool interesting hybrid builds will be taking a huge NERF especially like my azureblight tanks. If the requirements in PVP stayed as they proposed using battle spirit and in PVE there was no change, that would be much better.

They also nerfed every set that ticks every .5 sec to 1 sec and many that tick 1 sec to 2 sec, effectively ruining those too. Like my healers using winter's respite, and yes we need OVERHEALS in the game because SPC, Prayer etc work off overheal.

Overall I like many of the changes in coming update, but changing proc sets outside of PVP looks really unnecessarily bad.

NeillMcAttack

I’d like if they increased it further and allowed them to crit tbh!

Foto1

I do not understand what are you talking about. I have 6600 wpd in solo play and can do even more if I want to. damage sets are clearly enhanced in pve. healing sets may be worse