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New Players Will Be Kicked Out of LFG Made Dungeons to Be Replaced With Companions.
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Tigertron✭✭✭✭
You said you can solo them already. A companion AI or RI is not needed.this bad news for new players, below level 50 players.
i run normal dungeons almost every day and i can solo them myself so i get a lot of low level players who just tag along to get exp and loot, i do not really care about their dps, they help to kill things faster but i am not rely on them, i am basically very help full to them, helping them clear dungeon fast and get exp and loot.
this is how i leveled up my alts by doing normal dungeon and many veteran players helped me level up fast, they also did not care about my performance.
now imagine some toxic or troll simply kicking low level players and replace them with npc, that would suck for every one including zos, some of them are even new players to mmo genre, and see toxicity they might quit, customer lost bad for every one.
like i said normal dungeons were good place to level up and learn the game as you go for new players, it was also good for veteran players to get some easy gold.
but with companion coming, i do not know man. also veteran players might start running with their companion rather than helping new players coz companion dps is higher than those newbies.
i do not have good feeling about this.
I que for a random dungeon everyday for nothing but the XP and transmute crystals. Almost every dungeon I can solo. (No eso+) The ones I can’t is because of a mechanic that needs another player. But it certainly goes much fast with a group of 4. Solo would take twice as long. Maybe longer. But I have no reason to use a companion in that case. It won’t make the que faster. And won’t make the dungeon run faster. The worst player in the game is going to be better than a companion.
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Soulshine✭✭✭✭✭
✭Please don't allow players to que in the looking for dungeon tool with their companion or replace players in a looking for dungeon tool group. I have seen it happen in other MMO's over the years where if a new or underperforming player doesn't meet their current groups expectations, they are kicked and then replaced with AI. If companions are allowed using the LFG tool, then players will become even more toxic than before. Only allow companions to be used in pre-made groups, please don't add more toxicity in pugs for players who use the LFG tool.
I don't mind the idea of having companions replace real players in pre-made groups, but replacing people with AI in the LFG tool isn't a good idea. Other MMO's I have played have had this issue for years, and it has ruined the social interactions with strangers and players that are new to the game. AI should be allowed in pre-made groups, but when it comes to groups that are formed with the LFG tool it shouldn't be allowed since players are already at their worst when partying with others strangers using the tool. ZOS, you stated the point of companions was to help combat the toxicity of players in this game when grouping, but allowing others to abuse the LFG tool to replace players with AI, only adds to it. Pre-made groups only.
Try to get info before posting things like this.
Stream on PTS today testing queue with two players and two companions in LFG tool. They could not queue up. Period.
They did a dungeon by selecting the one they wanted to run.4 -
Anonx31st✭✭✭Please don't allow players to que in the looking for dungeon tool with their companion or replace players in a looking for dungeon tool group. I have seen it happen in other MMO's over the years where if a new or underperforming player doesn't meet their current groups expectations, they are kicked and then replaced with AI. If companions are allowed using the LFG tool, then players will become even more toxic than before. Only allow companions to be used in pre-made groups, please don't add more toxicity in pugs for players who use the LFG tool.
I don't mind the idea of having companions replace real players in pre-made groups, but replacing people with AI in the LFG tool isn't a good idea. Other MMO's I have played have had this issue for years, and it has ruined the social interactions with strangers and players that are new to the game. AI should be allowed in pre-made groups, but when it comes to groups that are formed with the LFG tool it shouldn't be allowed since players are already at their worst when partying with others strangers using the tool. ZOS, you stated the point of companions was to help combat the toxicity of players in this game when grouping, but allowing others to abuse the LFG tool to replace players with AI, only adds to it. Pre-made groups only.
Try to get info before posting things like this.
Stream on PTS today testing queue with two players and two companions in LFG tool. They could not queue up. Period.
They did a dungeon by selecting the one they wanted to run.
That's great news! I am glad ZOS decided to go with these changes! Thanks for the info!0 -
Anonx31st✭✭✭Does this also mean that players can't kick out another and replace them with a companion then too?0
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AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you queue for a role and your pug figures an AI companion can do your role better than you, perhaps you need additional practice with preformed groups of friends before pugging? A player would have to demonstrate both abysmal performance in their role and no interest in learning before I'd vote to kick a player and replace them with a companion.
Frankly, I quite like the options that companions give to pugs. Like any situation, jerks will be jerks and considerate helpful players will be considerate helpful players.PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo2 -
Anonx31st✭✭✭AcadianPaladin wrote: »If you queue for a role and your pug figures an AI companion can do your role better than you, perhaps you need additional practice with preformed groups of friends before pugging? A player would have to demonstrate both abysmal performance in their role and no interest in learning before I'd vote to kick a player and replace them with a companion.
Frankly, I quite like the options that companions give to pugs. Like any situation, jerks will be jerks and considerate helpful players will be considerate helpful players.
I agree, that is why I think normal dungeons is a great learning tool for new players, before they que for vet/hard modes! If new players are being kicked from groups (without any constructive criticism) to just be replaced with AI, it just makes them repeat the same mistake in their next group and the cycle then repeats itself.0 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Does this also mean that players can't kick out another and replace them with a companion then too?
I would imagine the kick function will work as it always has. Once you're at 3 members you can choose to find a replacement or run with 3. If you run with 3, someone can take out a companion.
It's possible it doesn't work this way, but there is no mention of a change to the vote kick system so removing players shouldn't be any different than it is now.0 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AcadianPaladin wrote: »If you queue for a role and your pug figures an AI companion can do your role better than you, perhaps you need additional practice with preformed groups of friends before pugging? A player would have to demonstrate both abysmal performance in their role and no interest in learning before I'd vote to kick a player and replace them with a companion.
Frankly, I quite like the options that companions give to pugs. Like any situation, jerks will be jerks and considerate helpful players will be considerate helpful players.
It is probably a PUG benefit if you can boot the bad fake tank or healer and pull out a companion that will at least perform the role at some level.3 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Judging by the early PTS experience folks are having with Bastian, he seems like he dies a lot as a tank.
I mean, my basic criteria for a tank is that they hold aggro on the boss and don't die. Maybe Bastian will get better as he progresses, but right now it's not looking good.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/570790/companions-are-hilarious#latest0 -
Anonx31st✭✭✭AcadianPaladin wrote: »If you queue for a role and your pug figures an AI companion can do your role better than you, perhaps you need additional practice with preformed groups of friends before pugging? A player would have to demonstrate both abysmal performance in their role and no interest in learning before I'd vote to kick a player and replace them with a companion.
Frankly, I quite like the options that companions give to pugs. Like any situation, jerks will be jerks and considerate helpful players will be considerate helpful players.
It is probably a PUG benefit if you can boot the bad fake tank or healer and pull out a companion that will at least perform the role at some level.
I disagree, that just removes the opportunity for a new player that isn't a fake tank/healer.1 -
Anonx31st✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Judging by the early PTS experience folks are having with Bastian, he seems like he dies a lot as a tank.
I mean, my basic criteria for a tank is that they hold aggro on the boss and don't die. Maybe Bastian will get better as he progresses, but right now it's not looking good.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/570790/companions-are-hilarious#latest
So you feel companions should always hold aggro on a boss and not die? I don't feel that would be good for players that can't always keep 100% uptime on their taunts and occasionally dies. Human error needs to be made from AI.0 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AcadianPaladin wrote: »If you queue for a role and your pug figures an AI companion can do your role better than you, perhaps you need additional practice with preformed groups of friends before pugging? A player would have to demonstrate both abysmal performance in their role and no interest in learning before I'd vote to kick a player and replace them with a companion.
Frankly, I quite like the options that companions give to pugs. Like any situation, jerks will be jerks and considerate helpful players will be considerate helpful players.
It is probably a PUG benefit if you can boot the bad fake tank or healer and pull out a companion that will at least perform the role at some level.
I disagree, that just removes the opportunity for a new player that isn't a fake tank/healer.
If they aren't a fake tank/healer, the hope is they won't be immediately removed, regardless of the companion system.0 -
Anonx31st✭✭✭redspecter23 wrote: »AcadianPaladin wrote: »If you queue for a role and your pug figures an AI companion can do your role better than you, perhaps you need additional practice with preformed groups of friends before pugging? A player would have to demonstrate both abysmal performance in their role and no interest in learning before I'd vote to kick a player and replace them with a companion.
Frankly, I quite like the options that companions give to pugs. Like any situation, jerks will be jerks and considerate helpful players will be considerate helpful players.
It is probably a PUG benefit if you can boot the bad fake tank or healer and pull out a companion that will at least perform the role at some level.
I disagree, that just removes the opportunity for a new player that isn't a fake tank/healer.
If they aren't a fake tank/healer, the hope is they won't be immediately removed, regardless of the companion system.
I feel hope would be for new players if companions were given tank skills/dps numbers from the average player.0 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭redspecter23 wrote: »AcadianPaladin wrote: »If you queue for a role and your pug figures an AI companion can do your role better than you, perhaps you need additional practice with preformed groups of friends before pugging? A player would have to demonstrate both abysmal performance in their role and no interest in learning before I'd vote to kick a player and replace them with a companion.
Frankly, I quite like the options that companions give to pugs. Like any situation, jerks will be jerks and considerate helpful players will be considerate helpful players.
It is probably a PUG benefit if you can boot the bad fake tank or healer and pull out a companion that will at least perform the role at some level.
I disagree, that just removes the opportunity for a new player that isn't a fake tank/healer.
If they aren't a fake tank/healer, the hope is they won't be immediately removed, regardless of the companion system.
I feel hope would be for new players if companions were given tank skills/dps numbers from the average player.
I'm sure that no matter how bad companions are, they will still be better than some small portion of the real player population. If Bastion dies 8 times on a normal dungeon boss, there will certainly be some players that die 9+ times on the same boss. At that point, the player may want to examine their own skills before they queue for a tank that dies 9+ times in a normal dungeon.0 -
Anonx31st✭✭✭redspecter23 wrote: »redspecter23 wrote: »AcadianPaladin wrote: »If you queue for a role and your pug figures an AI companion can do your role better than you, perhaps you need additional practice with preformed groups of friends before pugging? A player would have to demonstrate both abysmal performance in their role and no interest in learning before I'd vote to kick a player and replace them with a companion.
Frankly, I quite like the options that companions give to pugs. Like any situation, jerks will be jerks and considerate helpful players will be considerate helpful players.
It is probably a PUG benefit if you can boot the bad fake tank or healer and pull out a companion that will at least perform the role at some level.
I disagree, that just removes the opportunity for a new player that isn't a fake tank/healer.
If they aren't a fake tank/healer, the hope is they won't be immediately removed, regardless of the companion system.
I feel hope would be for new players if companions were given tank skills/dps numbers from the average player.
I'm sure that no matter how bad companions are, they will still be better than some small portion of the real player population. If Bastion dies 8 times on a normal dungeon boss, there will certainly be some players that die 9+ times on the same boss. At that point, the player may want to examine their own skills before they queue for a tank that dies 9+ times in a normal dungeon.
As someone that has been playing since beta, and have mainly ran pugs. I believe this statement is true, that is why I feel new players in normal dungeons (where players get dungeon experience in the first place) will be kicked and replaced by companions. That is why I hope they don't receive better DPS, Heal, or tanking AI.0 -
Anonx31st✭✭✭I've noticed people in my guild chat have recently been talking about how they are going to be replacing low level CP players in their dungeons once companions come out. I hope this isn't going to be the case for new players. It will be very detrimental to this MMO.2
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Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just hope it discourages fake rolesI've noticed people in my guild chat have recently been talking about how they are going to be replacing low level CP players in their dungeons once companions come out. I hope this isn't going to be the case for new players. It will be very detrimental to this MMO.
Well, if the threat of being replaced by an NPC isn’t enough motivation to surpass 10k DPS I don’t know what is1 -
crazepdx✭✭✭✭Lets be honest the companions will be better than 90% of the people you’ll find in the dungeon queue.
Apparently you haven't played with companions in the PTS. They are glorified non combat pets, die easily to trash mobs, and they to love pulling agro without a taunt and standing in red. It's almost a game to see how long you can keep them alive during a boss fight.4 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I've noticed people in my guild chat have recently been talking about how they are going to be replacing low level CP players in their dungeons once companions come out. I hope this isn't going to be the case for new players. It will be very detrimental to this MMO.
I can see that backfiring on them5 -
jm42✭✭✭✭Companions will make 9-10k dps with perfect rotation, this is confirmed. If you cannot get 10k dps as dps role, you have no business in dungeons, as you will be a burden to your fellow players.
or you are just 21-lvl newbie that was thrown to elitist highlvls by random queue, yeah?0 -
jm42✭✭✭✭MerguezMan wrote: »and that elitists that intend to speedrun the dungeons while the group doesn't would have as many chances to get kicked than really bad players.
That doesn't work like that. Kicking anyone must go through voting so even 1 player that want fast carry will block kicking the speedrunner0 -
RedMuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭I can see players heavily abusing companions in easier dungeons... by solo or dual queueing for a random dungeon, and instantly kicking the other player(s) after entering, just to use their companions. We already see how some players abuse others in the dungeonfinder(speedrunners, fake roles, etc), this will make it worse. As they immediately have a replacement, in the form of companions.
Or all those DPS who will be fake queueing as tank, with the sole intention of immediately kicking the DPS and using their tanking companion instead. Instant queue abuse!
That's not how kicking works. You can't dual queue and then kick the other 2 players. You need 3 people to agree to kick one.
Same for the fake tank queuing DPS. The fake tank can't just solo kick the other DPS. The other people need to agree to kick the real DPS in favor of the fake tank. Why would they? Those are not things that actually happen ever.AcadianPaladin wrote: »If you queue for a role and your pug figures an AI companion can do your role better than you, perhaps you need additional practice with preformed groups of friends before pugging? A player would have to demonstrate both abysmal performance in their role and no interest in learning before I'd vote to kick a player and replace them with a companion.
Frankly, I quite like the options that companions give to pugs. Like any situation, jerks will be jerks and considerate helpful players will be considerate helpful players.
It is probably a PUG benefit if you can boot the bad fake tank or healer and pull out a companion that will at least perform the role at some level.
I disagree, that just removes the opportunity for a new player that isn't a fake tank/healer.
Considering that both tanks and healers have near zero queue time (hence why DDs fake role) I honestly fail to see the problem here.0 -
washbern✭✭✭✭✭After running vet banished cells 2 with two new players who refused any sort of help or advice, with the last fight literally lasting 20 minutes before wiping, damn right I would kick people for ai power. Some people are willing to learn. Some people are aggressively ignorant2 -
Bradyfjord✭✭✭✭✭
A lot of the Fellowship couldn't do any dps either, but I still think they're awesome.4 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Judging by the early PTS experience folks are having with Bastian, he seems like he dies a lot as a tank.
I mean, my basic criteria for a tank is that they hold aggro on the boss and don't die. Maybe Bastian will get better as he progresses, but right now it's not looking good.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/570790/companions-are-hilarious#latest
So you feel companions should always hold aggro on a boss and not die? I don't feel that would be good for players that can't always keep 100% uptime on their taunts and occasionally dies. Human error needs to be made from AI.
I feel like AI healers should just stop healing you. I mean sometimes real players mess up and miss heals. So the code should be
If player 0-35% - Heal -> Rand 1-100 -> If above 50 -> Do not heal and just stand there.
Such great 60.00 USD feature.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bradyfjord wrote: »
A lot of the Fellowship couldn't do any dps either, but I still think they're awesome.
This is a great post and I wish MMORPGs would remember this. Groups shouldn't be just about pushing high damage numbers. They really need to stop catering to that crowd. It's ruining the genre.Edited by Jeremy on May 17, 2021 3:27AM2 -
EF321✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I believe low level should not be matched with high levels to begin with. It is bad experience for everyone involved.1 -
tenryuta✭✭✭*looks at queue times
itll be so much better with comps, 2p minimum, with chance of 2 more coming in later, getting that daily done an hour or 2 sooner, and getting sets will be even faster.0
