New Players Will Be Kicked Out of LFG Made Dungeons to Be Replaced With Companions.

Anonx31st

Please don't allow players to que in the looking for dungeon tool with their companion or replace players in a looking for dungeon tool group. I have seen it happen in other MMO's over the years where if a new or underperforming player doesn't meet their current groups expectations, they are kicked and then replaced with AI. If companions are allowed using the LFG tool, then players will become even more toxic than before. Only allow companions to be used in pre-made groups, please don't add more toxicity in pugs for players who use the LFG tool.

I don't mind the idea of having companions replace real players in pre-made groups, but replacing people with AI in the LFG tool isn't a good idea. Other MMO's I have played have had this issue for years, and it has ruined the social interactions with strangers and players that are new to the game. AI should be allowed in pre-made groups, but when it comes to groups that are formed with the LFG tool it shouldn't be allowed since players are already at their worst when partying with others strangers using the tool. ZOS, you stated the point of companions was to help combat the toxicity of players in this game when grouping, but allowing others to abuse the LFG tool to replace players with AI, only adds to it. Pre-made groups only.

Hapexamendios

I agree that the companions should be completely barred from the dungeon finder.

Hamboot

I will be extremely irritated if I find out that companions are allowed in the group finder, or if players are given the possibility to replace one player with a companion in a dungeon during a pug group.

Sylvermynx

Eh, I don't really think that's very likely - or at least not after y'all realize companions can't do jack for DPS (9-10k outside), can't use "player gear" but only what is programmed as "companion gear", and can't deal with mechanics.

Take a look at some of the other threads on the first page....

robertthebard

Personally, I think it'll be great. So you get the player that thinks the only correct way to do things is the way they say, you vote kick 'em, replace 'em with an NPC, and finish your run. I've done this in swtor so many times it'd make someone dizzy, and it's richly rewarding to respond to their hostile whispers with "We did just fine, after we replaced you with an NPC".

redspecter23

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Eh, I don't really think that's very likely - or at least not after y'all realize companions can't do jack for DPS (9-10k outside), can't use "player gear" but only what is programmed as "companion gear", and can't deal with mechanics.

Take a look at some of the other threads on the first page....

You realize that 10k is about 3 times what many pugs currently are capable of? The fact that they can be programmed means they will do stupid things, but at least they will do what they are told to do... which is also more than you can say for many pugs.

Roztlin45

Do you mean a level 26 only doing lite attack spam only could get kicked? Or a fake tank...say it ain't so!

bmnoble

They just revealed they will only manage around 10K DPS and not be able to handle mechanics, the only players in danger of being kicked are those that struggle to manage even that or fake tanks in the easier base game dungeons on normal. Doubt anyone will use them in Vet.

I would hope you can use companions in addition to group members though but I doubt it will work that way.

Companion gear better be sell-able on traders and be part of the sets collections system.

If your performing badly enough that the group feels it would be easier with a companion NPC, you need to have a good look at your build.

Amottica

Do we know this can happen or just speculating?

From the short time playing ESO, but experiencing companions in other games, I am putting forward a guess from experience that companions would not hold up well in an ESO dungeon.

1. Lots of stupid in ESO that will kill a player who does not move out.
2. Companions in MMORPGs tend to lack a complex AI that would allow them to recognize stupid and have them move out.

I would suggest we would see a lot of dead companions in dungeons. I have seen players die in normal dungeons because they did not move out of stupid. I doubt compansions will even be that good.

Just my thoughts. Feel free to disagree.

Darian_Rath

Anonx31st wrote: »

I have seen it happen in other MMO's over the years where if a new or underperforming player doesn't meet their current groups expectations, they are kicked and then replaced with AI.

The main thing here is that people aren't getting kicked just so others can use the AI, they are getting kicked because they are underperforming in group content and aren't pulling their weight.

If a live player is less effective than an AI why would I want them in my group anyway. PUG =/= Free carry.

oddbasket

I see the scenario where one would queue for a random for the daily bonus and then kick someone to use a companion because companion gear only drops when it is out. The second factor needs to be removed, not saying companions shouldn't be allowed in group content, but they should be barred from group finder groups or group content should not drop companion gear at all.

Lintashi

Companions will make 9-10k dps with perfect rotation, this is confirmed. If you cannot get 10k dps as dps role, you have no business in dungeons, as you will be a burden to your fellow players.

VaranisArano

Lintashi wrote: »

Companions will make 9-10k dps with perfect rotation, this is confirmed. If you cannot get 10k dps as dps role, you have no business in dungeons, as you will be a burden to your fellow players.

Meh. When I soloed Banished Cell 1 on Normal, my final DPS was only like 7k because the Boss CC'd me so much.

I mean, yes, as a tank I'd love it if all DDs did 10k or over. But very rarely is a normal dungeon going to struggle because someone is doing less.

Vet, now, that's another story.

DreamyLu

I don't know what to think about OP suggestion, because there are mainly two different perspectives: "pugs" and "elites"

I'm used to companion concept from another game, where they are sort of "life savers" for players who:
- Don't want to join a group of elitist players.
- Don't want to deal with mandatory request for specific DPS/ equipment.
- Want to have the freedom to feel free about rhythm and strategy (or want to test something).

I don't know how strong will be our companions, but I can imagine that many players who would be "pugs" will see them as a chance to build up a team where they feel good. On the other hand, players who fear to take pugs who don't have the performance level they expect will be able to complete team with companions. For both sides it's an added value.

That's why I tend to believe that companions will be good for dungeons for all parties. Personal opinion of course. That will be interesting to watch that.

Now on a side note: I'm pretty new to ESO and I don't touch dungeons up to now because of what I read in this forum. I'm not sure if anyone realize that, but for a newcomer, what we read here about dungeons is pretty discouraging about the activity.

Lintashi

DreamyLu wrote: »

Now on a side note: I'm pretty new to ESO and I don't touch dungeons up to now because of what I read in this forum. I'm not sure if anyone realize that, but for a newcomer, what we read here about dungeons is pretty discouraging about the activity.

Do not fear to try dungeons, they are not that scary Of course, it is best to start going there with a guild members, but even pugs are good too. There are just a few rules to get good experience: 1. Try normal version of the dungeon first, before getting in veteran mode. 2. Do quest in normal mode, not in veteran ( people might want to try speedrun, or assume you are first timer). 3. Read a guide, or watch video before going into dlc dungeons or normal trials. Some bosses have certain mechanics, that can make it impossible or hard to beat them, unless you know what to do. Also, healers need atleast 1/2 heals, tank needs a taunt (most places) and damage dealer needs to do 8-15 k damage for comfortable play ( if you have real tank and healer)

Vlad9425

Lets be honest the companions will be better than 90% of the people you’ll find in the dungeon queue.

YandereGirlfriend

Mixing Companions and real players would definitely be annoying.

Worst of all would if you were in a queue and someone brought their Companion to tank.

The Companion won't be doing any mechanics so certain situations where the tank is expected to take a specific action to save the party (easy examples: Blootroot Forge or Scalecaller Peak) the Companion tank won't do that thing and the party can wipe.

That would be endlessly aggravating to have to put up with. Worst thing is that you can't even explain the mechanics because the tank is a bot.

Araneae6537

DreamyLu wrote: »

I don't know what to think about OP suggestion, because there are mainly two different perspectives: "pugs" and "elites"

I'm used to companion concept from another game, where they are sort of "life savers" for players who:
- Don't want to join a group of elitist players.
- Don't want to deal with mandatory request for specific DPS/ equipment.
- Want to have the freedom to feel free about rhythm and strategy (or want to test something).

I don't know how strong will be our companions, but I can imagine that many players who would be "pugs" will see them as a chance to build up a team where they feel good. On the other hand, players who fear to take pugs who don't have the performance level they expect will be able to complete team with companions. For both sides it's an added value.

That's why I tend to believe that companions will be good for dungeons for all parties. Personal opinion of course. That will be interesting to watch that.

Now on a side note: I'm pretty new to ESO and I don't touch dungeons up to now because of what I read in this forum. I'm not sure if anyone realize that, but for a newcomer, what we read here about dungeons is pretty discouraging about the activity.

It’s not nearly as bad as it sounds reading the forums simply because people are generally motivated to speak up when they don’t like something, etc. Yes, there are people who are varying degrees of rude but there are also really great people who will take extra time to help and explain if you state that you are new. It can also help your confidence if nothing else to queue with someone you know.

Also, if you are on PC NA and would like to not just do the quests but actually go through the dialogue and story and explore, let me know and I can see about getting you an invite to the Slow Dungeon Discord group.

MerguezMan

Do elitist players really run random dungeons with random players ?

Assuming you're new to the game, and getting into dungeons for the first time, in what conditions would you pull less than 10k damage ? I mean, that is very low damage, which means you don't use skills or don't follow the group consistently, which is not appropriate in group dungeons.

Do you think companion AI would be able to skip things or take shortcuts in dungeons ?

Honestly, I think companions will make harder for layy players to get a free carry, and that elitists that intend to speedrun the dungeons while the group doesn't would have as many chances to get kicked than really bad players.

If you get kicked, ask yourself why before asking devs ways not to get kicked.

RedMuse

Do people remember how the vote kick mechanic works? That you need three people to vote for a kick for it to happen?

cougarisbae

The companions might be a blessing in disguise in those queues. I have seen many a times on PCNA where the dps are trash that pull less than 10k dps. I rather have the companion at that point. Sorry if I am being elitist but at that point if you have add ons available that show you how much dps you are doing, you see that you are not pulling your weight, go research your toon a bit and try and help others working your toon to at least pull some decent numbers for casual pugging.

Arbit

I can’t imagine people will be so heartless as to kick people who are struggling, just so they can use their bot. Ruining someone’s day just so you can achieve marginally larger dps doesn’t make sense to me. If you can carry or even help them out with understanding, isn’t that way better and makes everyone’s day better? Bots are for avoiding the people who are self centred and just want to speed through without caring about anyone else. I’d happily replace a fake tank with a bot over replacing a failing dps.

parpin

this bad news for new players, below level 50 players.
i run normal dungeons almost every day and i can solo them myself so i get a lot of low level players who just tag along to get exp and loot, i do not really care about their dps, they help to kill things faster but i am not rely on them, i am basically very help full to them, helping them clear dungeon fast and get exp and loot.

this is how i leveled up my alts by doing normal dungeon and many veteran players helped me level up fast, they also did not care about my performance.
now imagine some toxic or troll simply kicking low level players and replace them with npc, that would suck for every one including zos, some of them are even new players to mmo genre, and see toxicity they might quit, customer lost bad for every one.
like i said normal dungeons were good place to level up and learn the game as you go for new players, it was also good for veteran players to get some easy gold.
but with companion coming, i do not know man. also veteran players might start running with their companion rather than helping new players coz companion dps is higher than those newbies.
i do not have good feeling about this.

Septimus_Magna

Look at it from a positive side, now players have a reason to research what it takes to fulfill the dps role instead of just doing the same as in overland content. Every CP160 can do 15k+ dps with crafted purple gear without weaving etc, its just a matter of understanding how a dps rotation works. If you keep spamming Ambush because that works in overland you're probably getting replaced by a companion.

zvavi

[snip] Do you truly believe the dungeon finder will be able to account for companions without breaking?

[Edited to remove Rude Comments]

Runefang

To be honest my companions will out dps you lot....

Tsar_Gekkou

I just finished a vet Banished Cells 2 where the other dps who was cp 430 did nothing but heavy attack with a lightning staff and use blastbones for the whole dungeon. We managed to beat it because I was a magsorc and crit surge kept me alive after the tank died to so I could solo the boss while swarmed with daedroths, but the other dps was dead for half the fight. I'll take a companion please.

DARKSTER1

Personally I'm happy with this change. At least i won't be having to look for a tank bc I'll have a companion tank. No more endless queues (i mean tanks rarely use group finder these days so)

Kel

Final Fantasy XIV has a type of companion system called "Trusts".

They preform extremely well, and are used for dungeon content.
Not joking, in a lot of cases they perform better than average pugs. Extremely aware of mechanics, do decent healing, good damage, and tank better than most pugs.

All by AI.

It is possible to pull off having competent AI run complex mechanics in dungeons.

Seriously doubt that will be the case in ESO.

Edit:
A dungeon end boss fight using the AI run Trust system, or companion system as it would be called in ESO.

https://youtu.be/gAVrthKEW2o

etchedpixels

Providing they are smart enough to stand on the plates in direfrost and get rid of the stupid pointless anti-solo mechanic there I'll be happy

Abelon

People who just spam light attacks in dungeons, or even worse, are generous enough to click a light attack once every 2 minutes, without using abilities obviously (what's abilities?), already get kicked. Some players are patient enough or just can't be bothered with kicking, to let those players be and carry them through the dungeons. Others are not and will kick.

Companions change nothing in that formula. The people who want dungeon speedruns are already kicking low dps players, they will keep on kicking them and will maybe replace them with companions (or better players). People who don't care won't suddenly start caring just because companions exist.

I think these worries are a bit premature. People should wait until companions have launched, that way you will potentially have evidence to support the "companions don't belong in lfg" argument.