New Players Will Be Kicked Out of LFG Made Dungeons to Be Replaced With Companions.

Maintenance for the week of January 20:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 20
• NA megaservers for maintenance – January 22, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – January 22, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 14:00 UTC (9:00AM EST)
  • zaria
    zaria
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The only one this will hit is fake tanks. Group dps has to be very low for it to be an problem in easy dungeons.
    So all has to do low dps including you.
    However if an fake tank dies on bosses he might be replaced by an tank npc who keep the boss taunted and stays alive this solves the problem.
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • Bobby_V_Rockit
    Bobby_V_Rockit
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Only if they are sub level 50 fake tank speed runners in random group finders that keep dying at every encounter
    Edited by Bobby_V_Rockit on April 16, 2021 12:42PM
  • SydneyGrey
    SydneyGrey
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I really hope companions aren't allowed in dungeon finder.
    I was kind of worried that I'll decide to use dungeon finder to PUG one day, and end up in a group with a bot. I'd rather play with actual people, not bots.
  • Kiralyn2000
    Kiralyn2000
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Obnoxious kickers will find a reason to kick people, because they want to find reasons to kick people. The fact they might use a game function as that excuse, is no reason to limit/reduce/remove those game functions.
  • Abelon
    Abelon
    ✭✭✭✭
    SydneyGrey wrote: »
    I really hope companions aren't allowed in dungeon finder.
    I was kind of worried that I'll decide to use dungeon finder to PUG one day, and end up in a group with a bot. I'd rather play with actual people, not bots.

    If you don't want to see a bot in a group you could join a premade group, with friends or guildmates...

    I'd rather play with bots to be honest. So I certainly hope companions will be a thing in dungeon finder. We could have some sort of options toggle though. Like "don't want to join groups with bots" which would then only matchmake you into groups without the ability to take out a companion. That would be something for everyone.
  • Sandman929
    Sandman929
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Anything that makes dungeon finder work faster, even if that means queuing with bots, is ok in my book. When I'm trying to run a daily random normal, I don't care if they pair me up with 3 paperweights, I just wanna get it done.
  • AlnilamE
    AlnilamE
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Abelon wrote: »

    If you don't want to see a bot in a group you could join a premade group, with friends or guildmates...

    I'd rather play with bots to be honest. So I certainly hope companions will be a thing in dungeon finder. We could have some sort of options toggle though. Like "don't want to join groups with bots" which would then only matchmake you into groups without the ability to take out a companion. That would be something for everyone.

    Except that the dungeon finder is designed to help *players* find a group. So allowing companions in dungeon finder groups goes against that.

    I have nothing against people pairing with another player and both using companions to complete a dungeon, though.
    The Moot Councillor
  • Abelon
    Abelon
    ✭✭✭✭
    AlnilamE wrote: »

    Except that the dungeon finder is designed to help *players* find a group. So allowing companions in dungeon finder groups goes against that.

    I have nothing against people pairing with another player and both using companions to complete a dungeon, though.

    I believe it's the opposite. Companions lower the amount of needed players from 4 to 3 or even 2. That means faster matchmaking. It also still helps you find a group. I don't understand how it goes against "players" finding groups? Matchmaking still works. You still get a group. You still run a dungeon.

    Edit: Think I got it. You can only have a max of two companions in a group just like you said. Can't have 3 companions and one player. One player only gets a single companion at a time... So you can't have a group without other players either way.
    Edited by Abelon on April 16, 2021 2:31PM
  • jaws343
    jaws343
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    My goal is to set my companion up as a heal/tank. Able to taunt enemies and heal me to some extant. I doubt I will set it up to do DPS.

    I can already solo the base game dungeons, most in vet too. All the companion is going to do is make that a bit smoother. And I really can't see players kicking others to use companions unless they are either doing extremely poorly at their role, or they are toxic enough to want to ditch. Pretty much the same reasons people kick people currently, only now they don't have to wait around for someone to fill a role.
    Edited by jaws343 on April 16, 2021 2:34PM
  • Sarannah
    Sarannah
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    I can see players heavily abusing companions in easier dungeons... by solo or dual queueing for a random dungeon, and instantly kicking the other player(s) after entering, just to use their companions. We already see how some players abuse others in the dungeonfinder(speedrunners, fake roles, etc), this will make it worse. As they immediately have a replacement, in the form of companions.

    Yes, companions will be good for regular groups. Where a player DC's or has to be kicked for a legit reason. But many toxic players do not want regular groups, and will heavily abuse this function. To the point where some players do not even want to run dungeons anymore. Imagine being a DPS, getting a fake tank after a 30 minute queue, and instantly getting kicked so they can use their companion. You will have waited out a 30 minute queue, get a penalty, and will have to wait 30 minutes in queue again.

    Or all those DPS who will be fake queueing as tank, with the sole intention of immediately kicking the DPS and using their tanking companion instead. Instant queue abuse!

    So I do agree companions should not be available in group content.
    Edited by Sarannah on April 16, 2021 2:46PM
  • NordSwordnBoard
    NordSwordnBoard
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    @DreamyLu

    As others have related above - Forums are much like the media, good, happy stories are kind of mundane compared to the drama/conflict stories. When you do a large number of dungeons, you will see this pattern.

    Fear is the Mindkiller
  • NordSwordnBoard
    NordSwordnBoard
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    I wonder about this: If you can que with companion tank, will it increase the que for player tanks significantly? I wonder how much of an impact that may be. The very short que time made tanking in vet more attractive, and I would expect to see less blue portals for vanilla vet dungeons after this is implemented. I'm just speculating that taking incentives to random que away from real tanks probably isn't a good thing.
    Fear is the Mindkiller
  • PrinceDamien
    PrinceDamien
    ✭✭✭✭
    Just make it so that one can't invite a companion once a dungeon is already in progress, just put the group up looking for a replacement as normal.
    That should prevent people to get kicked for no good reason.
  • Abelon
    Abelon
    ✭✭✭✭
    Sarannah wrote: »
    I can see players heavily abusing companions in easier dungeons... by solo or dual queueing for a random dungeon, and instantly kicking the other player(s) after entering, just to use their companions. We already see how some players abuse others in the dungeonfinder(speedrunners, fake roles, etc), this will make it worse. As they immediately have a replacement, in the form of companions.

    Or all those DPS who will be fake queueing as tank, with the sole intention of immediately kicking the DPS and using their tanking companion instead. Instant queue abuse!

    That's not how kicking works. You can't dual queue and then kick the other 2 players. You need 3 people to agree to kick one.

    Same for the fake tank queuing DPS. The fake tank can't just solo kick the other DPS. The other people need to agree to kick the real DPS in favor of the fake tank. Why would they? Those are not things that actually happen ever.
  • Sarannah
    Sarannah
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Abelon wrote: »

    That's not how kicking works. You can't dual queue and then kick the other 2 players. You need 3 people to agree to kick one.

    Same for the fake tank queuing DPS. The fake tank can't just solo kick the other DPS. The other people need to agree to kick the real DPS in favor of the fake tank. Why would they? Those are not things that actually happen ever.
    Players already do this with guildies and friends....
  • Abelon
    Abelon
    ✭✭✭✭
    Sarannah wrote: »
    Players already do this with guildies and friends....

    So which situation are we talking about? 3 Guildies decide to do a dungeon and they want to kick a player to replace them with a companion?

    They will just enter the dungeon together with one companion. Why would they ever waste their time with dungeon finder. Why would they ever waste their time kicking someone?

    I am not arguing that toxic players who kick people do not exist. They absolutely do. I just don't think that any of the situations you described make any sense. Or that they happen often enough to be worth mentioning.
  • NordSwordnBoard
    NordSwordnBoard
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Abelon wrote: »

    That's not how kicking works. You can't dual queue and then kick the other 2 players. You need 3 people to agree to kick one.

    Same for the fake tank queuing DPS. The fake tank can't just solo kick the other DPS. The other people need to agree to kick the real DPS in favor of the fake tank. Why would they? Those are not things that actually happen ever.

    Well, at the risk of giving away the tactic: I've been in dungeons where some lowbie is vote kicked almost immediately, but I either want to give them a chance or see myself how they do on the adds. (If we can do the dungeon without too much headache, I'm ok with carrying etc.) After I voted no, they vote kicked me. The lower level was probably intimidated into it, or did so out of ignorance. Then they kicked that player anyway. Not knowing who to trust when by yourself is what they take advantage of. Not too common an occurance, but I try to prevent it from happening to me again lol.
    Fear is the Mindkiller
  • Agenericname
    Agenericname
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Abelon wrote: »

    So which situation are we talking about? 3 Guildies decide to do a dungeon and they want to kick a player to replace them with a companion?

    They will just enter the dungeon together with one companion. Why would they ever waste their time with dungeon finder. Why would they ever waste their time kicking someone?


    I am not arguing that toxic players who kick people do not exist. They absolutely do. I just don't think that any of the situations you described make any sense. Or that they happen often enough to be worth mentioning.

    Depends on how they handled the companions in the queue. If companions are not allowed to queue, then I can see that scenario playing out. Queue as 3, kick one, replace. You get the random daily bonus and companion. That assumes that you could potentially summon one after a dungeon has started and that companions arent allowed into the queue.

    It doesnt actually take 3 to kick 1. It takes all but the person being kicked. Companions wouldn't get a vote, so this will shift the balance a little bit.

    They will be on the PTS monday? We will know a lot more then. I feel like some of the concerns have at least a shred of validity behind them, but still too early to say.

  • Sarannah
    Sarannah
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Easy scenario: 3 DPS queue as tank, healer, and 1 dps for random. The fourth player to randomly get that group will get instantly kicked for the tanking companion. This is even without being able to queue with a companion.
  • spartaxoxo
    spartaxoxo
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree that they shouldn't be allowed in activity finder. I do think they should still be allowed in dungeons if you port directly inside.
    Edited by spartaxoxo on April 16, 2021 6:00PM
  • GreenHere
    GreenHere
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    The only reason I even want a Companion is so my friend and I can play 4-man dungeons by ourselves and get the daily random rewards. We duo them now when the mood strikes, and just do without the rewards. "Queueing" up with 2 AI wouldn't hurt anyone in our case, because we're not normally in the pool of random players to begin with.

    BUT, I'd be all for implementing a lock of sorts that dictates you cannot summon (or dismiss) Companions once a dungeon/trial starts, so as not to encourage (or even allow) people to kick real players in favor of bots. That should just never happen, and is a serious *** move from someone to kick a real player who's struggling just to have a mediocre NPC take their place.

    I really hope a middle ground is found, because I want to do it my way with my friend in our own "private" group, but I also agree that for solo/random LFG groups this could be a real problem that needs ZOS to handle smartly.
  • robertthebard
    robertthebard
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    GreenHere wrote: »
    The only reason I even want a Companion is so my friend and I can play 4-man dungeons by ourselves and get the daily random rewards. We duo them now when the mood strikes, and just do without the rewards. "Queueing" up with 2 AI wouldn't hurt anyone in our case, because we're not normally in the pool of random players to begin with.

    BUT, I'd be all for implementing a lock of sorts that dictates you cannot summon (or dismiss) Companions once a dungeon/trial starts, so as not to encourage (or even allow) people to kick real players in favor of bots. That should just never happen, and is a serious *** move from someone to kick a real player who's struggling just to have a mediocre NPC take their place.

    I really hope a middle ground is found, because I want to do it my way with my friend in our own "private" group, but I also agree that for solo/random LFG groups this could be a real problem that needs ZOS to handle smartly.

    Nope. If I ever feel the need to kick someone, it will be because of their toxicity in the group. I'm not seeing how having to put up with that, when I can vote kick and replace them with a comp would be of benefit to me. Just as that toxic player is in it for themselves, the same applies to me, and if the rest of the group agrees that they need to go, they voted to kick, after all, then "buh bye, and let's hit a comp, and get it done".
  • GreenHere
    GreenHere
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭

    Nope. If I ever feel the need to kick someone, it will be because of their toxicity in the group. I'm not seeing how having to put up with that, when I can vote kick and replace them with a comp would be of benefit to me. Just as that toxic player is in it for themselves, the same applies to me, and if the rest of the group agrees that they need to go, they voted to kick, after all, then "buh bye, and let's hit a comp, and get it done".

    Yeah, I can see where you're coming from there.

    Kicking jerks from group definitely should not be prevented, but I can see the sense in an argument for having "if you start the dungeon with real players, you should finish it with real players" be the standard. The current system that replaces kicked players with new ones works well enough though, in my experience. But I can also see the benefit of just having a Companion instantly pop in to fill the slot if some real person just needs to leave (or be removed) from the group for whatever reason. That opens the door for abuse, but that doesn't change how convenient it would be in "fair" use cases.
    It's a tough spot.

    I'm not personally that worried about the potential for abuse, because I basically never queue up for randoms without a friend anyway; but I do have empathy for the folks who are concerned they'll get kicked out of dungeons and stuff for not meeting people's standards if they know they can just call on an AI to get the job done. Time will tell if ZOS has (or needs to) implement some kind of measure for preventing this, but given how I've seen randoms treat each other (and me, on occasion) I have no doubt that jerks will use Companions to boot / grief / exclude real players they deem to be subpar.

    I hope for other players' sake that a workable solution can be found... but I fear that ZOS has done precisely nothing to address this concern. My above suggestion might not be best solution but it'd be better than no solution at all, I think.
  • Anonx31st
    Anonx31st
    ✭✭✭
    I hope ZOS learned from the issue from other MMO's before the final version is released for companions.
    Edited by Anonx31st on April 16, 2021 10:20PM
  • Rex-Umbra
    Rex-Umbra
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Idk any new player should be able tp do 5-10k dps to out compete a companion.
    Xbox GT: Rex Umbrah
    GM of IMPERIUM since 2015.
  • Rex-Umbra
    Rex-Umbra
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    I play tank and still can do 25k dps
    Xbox GT: Rex Umbrah
    GM of IMPERIUM since 2015.
  • stefj68
    stefj68
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    bmnoble wrote: »
    They just revealed they will only manage around 10K DPS and not be able to handle mechanics, the only players in danger of being kicked are those that struggle to manage even that or fake tanks in the easier base game dungeons on normal. Doubt anyone will use them in Vet.

    I would hope you can use companions in addition to group members though but I doubt it will work that way.

    Companion gear better be sell-able on traders and be part of the sets collections system.

    If your performing badly enough that the group feels it would be easier with a companion NPC, you need to have a good look at your build.

    they said more 5k to 10k... im guessing it will be more 6-7k if someoen in yoru group can;'t do that, and can't do mechanics well kick them out ;P
  • Tigertron
    Tigertron
    ✭✭✭✭
    DreamyLu wrote: »
    ...

    Now on a side note: I'm pretty new to ESO and I don't touch dungeons up to now because of what I read in this forum. I'm not sure if anyone realize that, but for a newcomer, what we read here about dungeons is pretty discouraging about the activity. :D

    Don’t believe that. Those are like reviews on Amazon. You are only going to hear about the bad. 99.9% of the runs are just fine.

    I only know of 1 pug run that was a disaster and it was really just because it was a tough DLC dungeon and the player was a new tank that didn’t know the mechanics.

    So, start at a low level. Ideally level 10. Que for a normal random dungeon as your role. Skip the quest if you want the story at a later date or not if you want the skill point now. Just follow the leader. Some one in your group will know the dungeon so just follow their lead.

    At low level you will only get very easy dungeons so I suggest you start early.

    Gear does not matter. Skill does not matter. You can be carried so don’t worry just do your best.

    But jump into the que today. Normal random dungeon. It will be fun.
  • Tigertron
    Tigertron
    ✭✭✭✭
    Providing they are smart enough to stand on the plates in direfrost and get rid of the stupid pointless anti-solo mechanic there I'll be happy ;)

    So. I guess posting this on the official forum will get it nerfed but it hasn’t happened yet and as far as I know has been done for a long time.

    Go to the exit gate. Use a gap closer to target the troll on the other side and your in. You have to do it one more time to get to the boss and be ready to fight (or die) but it skips that plate mechanic.

  • Parasaurolophus
    Parasaurolophus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    I am now really worried that companions will create a lot of unpleasant situations. They are clearly not designed for dungeons, even at normal difficulty. And at the same time there are no restrictions so that they cannot be taken with you on the vet. Plus, it will hit the farm of sets in dungeons hard.
    And I really hoped that companions would be able to give story mode to many people, but their effectiveness is too low and they are intended for overland.
    If the usefulness of the companions is not increased, then I am afraid that we will face a very harmful innovation.
    PC/EU
Sign In or Register to comment.