Does anyone not like Razum-dar??

stewhead2ub17_ESO

This thought arbitrarily occurred to me today. Raz seems to be universally beloved. I'm a fan of his & haven't ever seen anyone post a discouraging word about that slick alley cat! I'm a fan & hope our paths cross again in future content!

SilverBride

I could take him or leave him. The one I don't like is Sai Sahan... with Lyris a close second.

Chips_Ahoy

i don't like cats, real or video game.

So yes, i hate all khajiit

the way they refer to themselves in the third person is so stupid, Is there anything that justifies that way of speaking?

SilverBride

Chips_Ahoy wrote: »

the way they refer to themselves in the third person is so stupid, Is there anything that justifies that way of speaking?

You for sure wouldn't like the Seinfeld episode with Jimmy then.

Nyladreas

Chips_Ahoy wrote: »

i don't like cats, real or video game.

So yes, i hate al khajiit

the way they refer to themselves in the third person is so stupid, Is there anything that justifies that way of speaking?

How can a person develop dislike for an entire species of animal... Just how? ;(

Erebear

Chips_Ahoy wrote: »

the way they refer to themselves in the third person is so stupid, Is there anything that justifies that way of speaking?

Its flavoring to separate their unique culture, I would think.

Agenericname

Nyladreas wrote: »

Chips_Ahoy wrote: »

i don't like cats, real or video game.

So yes, i hate al khajiit

the way they refer to themselves in the third person is so stupid, Is there anything that justifies that way of speaking?

How can a person develop dislike for an entire species of animal... Just how? ;(

Mosquitos?

Ratzkifal

Chips_Ahoy wrote: »

[...]

the way they refer to themselves in the third person is so stupid, Is there anything that justifies that way of speaking?

Perhaps the Khajiit language doesn't have pronouns at all, so you just say "this one" or "that one" to refer to yourself or "not yourself". That would make learning Tamrielic difficult for them.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Chips_Ahoy wrote: »

the way they refer to themselves in the third person is so stupid, Is there anything that justifies that way of speaking?

Yes, because that's how their language Ta'agra and culture works. So when they speak Tamrielic many of them continue to do this, you know an accent. But not all of them. Plenty of them learn to speak Tamrielic like everyone else, and khajiit who are born outside their culture and language doesn't do it from the beginning. Like Zhasim, who was raised by orcs, so he speaks like an orc. If a non-khajiit was raised among khajiit they would likely speak the same way they did.

SammyKhajit

Chips_Ahoy wrote: »

i don't like cats, real or video game.

So yes, i hate al khajiit

the way they refer to themselves in the third person is so stupid, Is there anything that justifies that way of speaking?

This one challenges you to a duel!

zaria

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Chips_Ahoy wrote: »

the way they refer to themselves in the third person is so stupid, Is there anything that justifies that way of speaking?

Yes, because that's how their language Ta'agra and culture works. So when they speak Tamrielic many of them continue to do this, you know an accent. But not all of them. Plenty of them learn to speak Tamrielic like everyone else, and khajiit who are born outside their culture and language doesn't do it from the beginning. Like Zhasim, who was raised by orcs, so he speaks like an orc. If a non-khajiit was raised among khajiit they would likely speak the same way they did.

The glyph trader in Hews bane doubles down on this, he is not an native Ta'agra speaker but he live an place with plenty of Khajiit so they and probably others to expect Khajiit to use this one so he tries to use it.
Languages is a bit weird also in real life.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

zaria wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Chips_Ahoy wrote: »

the way they refer to themselves in the third person is so stupid, Is there anything that justifies that way of speaking?

Yes, because that's how their language Ta'agra and culture works. So when they speak Tamrielic many of them continue to do this, you know an accent. But not all of them. Plenty of them learn to speak Tamrielic like everyone else, and khajiit who are born outside their culture and language doesn't do it from the beginning. Like Zhasim, who was raised by orcs, so he speaks like an orc. If a non-khajiit was raised among khajiit they would likely speak the same way they did.

The glyph trader in Hews bane doubles down on this, he is not an native Ta'agra speaker but he live an place with plenty of Khajiit so they and probably others to expect Khajiit to use this one so he tries to use it.
Languages is a bit weird also in real life.

That they are. So in fantasy and sci-fi with other races they are bound to get weirder. It's very common to see in sci-fi so I've always thought it's nice to see it in Elder Scrolls, a fantasy setting.
Argonian's Jel is even stranger and is supposedly extremely hard for non-argonians to learn. It uses no past or future tense, and seem to use metaphors a lot.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

As for the topic: I think he's alright. Which is my opinion on most of the popular npcs. I don't dislike them, but I don't think they are amazing either. There are other npcs I like more.

VaranisArano

To be honest, my first impression of Raz was from the "Messages Across Tamriel" in which my Pact Vestige meets up with Raz while getting a meeting with Queen Ayrenn. In which he made this comment to Varanis Arano:

Razum-dar: "Tell the lovely Dunmer, Naryu, that she is very welcome to disguise herself as a serving girl and show off for this one."
Queen Ayrenn: "Raz! Inappropriate."
Razum-dar: "This one has no regrets."

Ugh. Inappropriate, not to mention that by that point, he was taunting Varanis about someone who'd helped her several times and was, well, as much of a friend as someone like Naryu has friends. It went over like a lead balloon, and if she weren't on a diplomatic mission, Varanis would've called him out for it.

Raz was considerably more polite the next time he and Varanis met in the Gold Coast and Summerset, so perhaps he got the message that she wasn't impressed.


To be clear, Raz is great in the Dominion questline and Summerset. My AD characters get along great with him. It's just that I did the Pact Questline first, and so my first impression was very colored by that first meeting in which Razum-dar is a randy, inappropriate jerk.

Tharonil

I like all khajiit
It doesn't matter if they steal or do other illegal things, i can't be mad at them.

SPOILER!!!:

If anyone remembers the quest with a dumner and a khajiit in one body (i think it was the main story), where we had to choose one to sacrifice.

I played this quest three times already, but I have to save the khajiit everytime.

virtus753

Chips_Ahoy wrote: »

i don't like cats, real or video game.

So yes, i hate al khajiit

the way they refer to themselves in the third person is so stupid, Is there anything that justifies that way of speaking?

There are/were particular registers of speech in certain real-world languages (e.g. Japanese) in which speakers refer to themselves with pronouns other than the equivalent of "I/me," usually in order to be polite or show respect. In English we still have a few, e.g. "Yours Truly." Saying something like "that would be yours truly" instead of "that would be me" takes the emphasis off the speaker while nowadays also adding a humorous element (because it's way too formal/polite for modern colloquial speech). It's also not uncommon (in my experience) to hear in English things like "some idiot went and did this silly thing..." (where the speaker uses "some idiot" to mean themselves, stressing that it was their own fault).

TwinLamps

Chips_Ahoy wrote: »

i don't like cats, real or video game.

So yes, i hate al khajiit

the way they refer to themselves in the third person is so stupid, Is there anything that justifies that way of speaking?

I am sure if they were programmed that way they would hate you back.
Also, the way they talk is part of their culture.
I wont ask what did irl cats do to you to deserve your hate but it must be something truly horrible.

Hurbster

He seemed to give up on Veya very quickly.

Gythral

gets to die - every oppertunity & he still bonces back

SydneyGrey

Tharonil wrote: »

If anyone remembers the quest with a dumner and a khajiit in one body (i think it was the main story), where we had to choose one to sacrifice.
I played this quest three times already, but I have to save the khajiit everytime.

Ah yes. This is the Vile Laboratory quest in Coldharbour.

Tesman85

Razum-dar often rubs me the wrong way. He jokes too much and in wrong situations, and seems to be too full of himself. I don't really like that kind of type in real life either, so it's personal taste, I suppose. On the other hand, some of his quips are rather funny, so it evens out things somewhat. I do get why he's so beloved by the fandom, but don't really care much of him.

On a related note, Queen Ayrenn is another character I think is overrated. She obviously despises her own people and their culture, and is willing to mould them into her own image whether they wanted it or not. So, somewhat of a despot. In fact, Veiled Heritance has some very strong good points about why Ayrenn is unfit to rule. To my mind, the only real reason they are the bad guys is their extremism: their overblown racism, deals with the Daedra and willingness to kill even their own people to further their goals. But still, on the balance I like Ayrenn somewhat as she has more appealing aspects, too. I actually think the writers might well have made this scenario so ambivalent intentionally. After all, e.g. the Magistrix Vox storyline is another one where the bad guy (or gal in this case) actually has some good points.

Snowy_Wyndra_Karn

Take him or leave him.

Snowy_Wyndra_Karn

Tesman85 wrote: »

Razum-dar often rubs me the wrong way. He jokes too much and in wrong situations, and seems to be too full of himself. I don't really like that kind of type in real life either, so it's personal taste, I suppose. On the other hand, some of his quips are rather funny, so it evens out things somewhat. I do get why he's so beloved by the fandom, but don't really care much of him.

On a related note, Queen Ayrenn is another character I think is overrated. She obviously despises her own people and their culture, and is willing to mould them to her own image whether they wanted it or not. So, somewhat of a despot also. In fact, Veiled Heritance has some very strong good points about why Ayrenn is unfit to rule. To my mind, the only real reason they are the bad guys is their extremism: their overblown racism, deals with the Daedra and willingness to kill even their own people to further their goals. But still, on the balance I like Ayrenn somewhat as she has more appealing aspects, too. I actually think the writers might well have made this scenario so ambivalent intentionally. After all, e.g. the Magistrix Vox storyline is another one where the bad guy (or gal in this case) actually has some good points.

I agree with what has been said about Ayrenn here.

Tommy_The_Gun

I like Raz... but...

I don't like the fact that there are so many great characters NPC in a base game (yes, including Argonians) that have a huge potential as a recurring characters, that we would like to see again in some newer content, but oddly ZOS is bringing same few characters again & again...

Tbh. It will be plain weird if they for example bring more recurring Khajiit NPCs than Argonian ones in something that is supposed to be Argonian / Imperial chapter / year long story... I mean it made sense for Summerset (because Aldmeri Dominion) and in Elsweyr (because it is a Khajiiti homeland), but for Black Marsh ? I think they should bring some Argonain NPCs (Like Captain One-Eye, Sees-All-Colors or Walks-Softly).

Again, I am not saying don't bring back Cats, I am saying it will be weird to see more Cats than Lizards in Black Marsh lol.

cyclonus11

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I like Raz... but...

I don't like the fact that there are so many great characters NPC in a base game (yes, including Argonians) that have a huge potential as a recurring characters, that we would like to see again in some newer content, but oddly ZOS is bringing same few characters again & again...

Tbh. It will be plain weird if they for example bring more recurring Khajiit NPCs than Argonian ones in something that is supposed to be Argonian / Imperial chapter / year long story... I mean it made sense for Summerset (because Aldmeri Dominion) and in Elsweyr (because it is a Khajiiti homeland), but for Black Marsh ? I think they should bring some Argonain NPCs (Like Captain One-Eye, Sees-All-Colors or Walks-Softly).

Again, I am not saying don't bring back Cats, I am saying it will be weird to see more Cats than Lizards in Black Marsh lol.

Blackwood is the area between Elsweyr and Black Marsh. In the lore, there's a mix of Imperial, Khajiit, and Argonian citizens in that area.

Lugaldu

I cannot speak specifically for Raz, but only in relation to the Khajiit in general. I think I would like them more if they didn't have that awful accent. I can only judge about the way they are talking in the German version of the game and I'm quite upset by this, some sort of, "Middle Eastern accent". Honestly, I find it a bit unfair because no other ESO race speaks with such a strong, artificial accent. Why Khajiit have to be separated from the other ones in that way?

etchedpixels

VaranisArano wrote: »

Tmy first impression was very colored by that first meeting in which Razum-dar is a randy, inappropriate jerk.

When you meet him in his Elsweyr story line that's clearly part of his history at the very least.

So we know he's promised to marry all three daughters and done a runner on them, that he ended up with the to be queen after an incident with "a high elf noble ,three bottles of whiskey and a small fire". We also know that there's a story involving Razum, Arenn and a drunken schoolmam and a purple dress. There are the inappropriate comments when he gets magically disguised as the Queen ("Hmm. Very convincing. But is the illusion applied … everywhere? Perhaps this one should take a moment in private to double-check, yes?")

Sevalaricgirl

How could anyone not like Raz, the rascal.

VDoom1

Is this a real question? o.o Raz is awesome!




Well not everyone likes every character, but Raz is definitely a fan favorite!

The third person thing is part of Khajiit charm, I like it. This one approves.

SidraWillowsky

Nyladreas wrote: »

Chips_Ahoy wrote: »

i don't like cats, real or video game.

So yes, i hate al khajiit

the way they refer to themselves in the third person is so stupid, Is there anything that justifies that way of speaking?

How can a person develop dislike for an entire species of animal... Just how? ;(

I for one am deathly allergic to them. And I'm a dog person.

And yeah, I don't like Raz. I feel like he's pushed way too hard by ZOS to be A Thing. He's a trope.

xAarionx

Tesman85 wrote: »

On a related note, Queen Ayrenn is another character I think is overrated. She obviously despises her own people and their culture, and is willing to mould them into her own image whether they wanted it or not. So, somewhat of a despot. In fact, Veiled Heritance has some very strong good points about why Ayrenn is unfit to rule. To my mind, the only real reason they are the bad guys is their extremism: their overblown racism, deals with the Daedra and willingness to kill even their own people to further their goals. But still, on the balance I like Ayrenn somewhat as she has more appealing aspects, too. I actually think the writers might well have made this scenario so ambivalent intentionally. After all, e.g. the Magistrix Vox storyline is another one where the bad guy (or gal in this case) actually has some good points.

I absolutely disagree with all of these
Sometimes you need to force change, otherwise, It's never gonna happen. specially if your people are a buch of self-centered egocentric pricks that believes their culture is above everyone else's (basically Altmer)
(I do so love that quest of the orc duel with the elf, when the knocked him ouch with one punch... God that was satisfying)
In fact the veiled herintence being a buch of racist suprematists is a direct consequence OF this culture of the altmer, and is this that Ayrenn is trying to change.

A real flaw that she has that i think is that she is TOO idealistic for my taste, too "naive"... although i do not believe that naive is the right word. A strong ruler like the skald king is more compeling for me

About Raz being inapropriate, it's his charm. Also remember that the dunmer of the pact lterally submted his people to slavery, and still does! I for myself would have absolutly no respect to dunmer in his shoes, And would treat them like trash in any situation.